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yo what do all you feel about 'death camping' people who have little or no prior jumping or canopy experience. Do youall' think this is more accepted now?

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NO!
Of course it's not accepted
it brings the whole sport in to disrepute and can mean object closures in addition to a high to definite risk of early death for the idiot who tries this approach

Basically anyone who is stupid enough to try this 'death camping' you talk of will be quickly outed by the genuine jumpers and it won't be a good outing I wouldn't imagine.....

I am desperate to start in base but am still racking up my skydives (I currently only have 155) and learning, learning, learning as much as I possibly can.
You (or your 'friend') should consider the same route.
1/ Learn about skydiving and read books, speak to current skydivers and try and glean as much information as possible
2/Take the AFF course at your local respected Dropzone.
3/ Continue jumping (skydives) regularly for at least the next 18 months to 2 years plus (depending on money and availability of the DZ)
4/ When you have a minimum of 250 skydives (IMHO) and have done some canopy control courses, think about if you want to get into Base once again.
4/ If you do, book some hot air balloon jumps **edited* or helictoper jumps (thanks bolas) and get a bit of a feeling for the dead air of base launches
5/ Do a trusted and well respected First Jump Course
6/ Do another different and well thought of FJC focusing ona different object type (for exmaple 1/ Death Camp **if you can get a place*, 2/ Kjerag FJC
7/Find a mentor if possible amongst the Base community you have been trying to make some friends in
8/ Learn and learn more from your mentor until he thinks your ready to go it alone

NOTE// Im not saying this is THE CORRECT way to get into Base....

Just the route I am trying after much thought and reading/learning

Balloon jumps are best, but helicopter jumps are good practice and much cheaper.

Thanks Bolas!
Edited/added this amendment!

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I second your ?.

With certain people, off of certain objects, in certain conditions, i honestly see that big of a problem with it. of course, i must say, the 'certain people' part is the biggest problem to overcome by far, and number of 'certain objects' are pretty small as well (1).

like it has been said, AFF level one is not that much safer.

it has been done, more than a few times, and of the 5 or so i've seen, i have never seen anything go wrong. i have heard some stories though.

I agree but in AFF level 1 at least the jumper has two highly qualified AFF instructors to pull them out of the shit to a certain extent (obviously if they have a malfunction with their main its down to them and wether they have, or havent......... got the ability or judgement or luck.....to save themselves.
And then down to Cyrpus over here but a really bad AFF student could still screw that up by getting tangled in their main or forgetting to switch it on etc
(i know thats a main check pre jump by the instructors, but still)

I think if someone with no jumping was mentored into doing a PCA jump off a 'safe' object, they would probably be just fine.

but if they try and teach themselves...they are asking for trouble IMHO

if they are teaching themselves, that not deathcamping.


and doing a PCA or MAYBE a handheald is the only way to do that kind of thing. i dont think anyone would deathcamp someone with a PC in the BOC.

For the record and not that this is excusable:
I was the one who first started throwing newbies off JT's bridge in Twin and calling it a "Death Camp". The point was not to teach them base jumping but to give them a one time fun ride. Of course there had to be some teaching involved for them to do it but it by no means was any kind of starter course. For obvious reasons I don't do it anymore - very often.
I doubt that there are many who are actually learning the sport and getting into base strictly from a death camp.
I can't fucking believe I just posted here again. What a dork I am!

I was referring to the dead air or near dead air exit experience. The first time most skydivers exit a helicopter or balloon they tend to spin, flip, or swim. Balloon exits are best but helicopters help train you to stay stable as well IMO.

If I'm incorrect please feel free to correct me. Always willing to learn more.

yes, that part I get-- It's the "cheaper" part I don't get...

I usually pay around $80-$100 for balloon jumps.

Helicopter jumps usually I pay $35-$45.

If you know a cheap place for balloon jumps...

For me its the other way around, prices opposite... Wanna trade for a summer? Helicopters can be fun.

My experiences...

Costs
-$80 for a balloon jump
-$35 to $65 for chopper jumps
-$10 to hop a small ultralight

Order of Benefit
Balloon, Ultralight, Helicopter...cause
the balloon was low, novel, and had
the most still air with the least noise.

On the ultralight jump it was just me
and a whuffo pilot, jump altitude was
low, it had a unquie climbout, and it
flew so s l o w that the exit felt just
like a chopper but much quiter. Plus I
think the experiemental nature of the
craft added to the thrill & skill factor.

Death camp is kinda like crack. Your first times always for free, then your either hooked, dead, or scared shitless and never want to do it again. For me, I was hooked and my dealer said if you want to keep it up go learn how to skydive. So I did, and now I know how to light my own pipe.

you have posted again though, its all downhill from here. you have about 1300 posts to be as smart as me.

and yeah, the deathcamps i have um, been part of, were for a once in a lifetime thing. ish.

but no seriously,

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8.

yea huckstable, isnt it true that a certain someone stole that name from you and started calling his fjc a "death camp"? By doing so he actually is giving people a false impression about what a death camp is all about.

 

dude.

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I know, I know..... I'm just a bit to salty to be surfing today......

So slambo, I thougt your version of death camp was a cougar in the back of a taxi cab

i was being sarcastic as to it giving a false impression. so let me ask you this: what made you laugh so hard while you were having a blast with tom?

Oh... your from Texas that explains alot! Death Camp is about as generic as um a BUSH lover from Texas. Seeing hows you attended Toms "death camp" means that you would have never qualified for a true "death camp," nor have the right to go around using the term so loosly, and as I stated before you are from Texas

Just out of curiosity, what does that have to do with anything

nor do you

...or anyone for that matter, but hey, that's just my opinion...

5+2, 3.5x2, 10-3,

its all the same guys.

I can use it, because I was offically death camped! No fjc, no prior skydive experience, not even a tandem. Ask uncle potato head he tossed me! I now have 92 base jumps from ski bases to lysbotn

I shit you not...if there was the equivalent of a Nobel price for BASE jumping, Bryan would be the first one on my list! Where is the dude anyway nowadays? Still in FL?

Edit:

Wrong potato ...JT is cool but Bryan is on a league on its own...

Tom's use of the title "Deathcamp" has nothing to do with B.A.S.E. jumping but is used in reference to the inconceivable amount of drinking that goes on during his course.

You guys are sooo extreeeeeeeeme!

I know, it says so on my container.

so was i. what made me laugh so hard is that kate had a guy goin to the point i thought he'd actually take us up on it.

good times.

is it accepted?...

its kind of like the top rail bail thing. people gripe about it on the internet, but nobody really minds if they see you doing it. it falls under the "no harm, no foul" category, and you also may as well not send out any fliers as you do it.

i have deathcamped perhaps 17 people, more than half of them were sober at the time. all were sober at my bridge in idaho. I stopped for the most part after my experience with a kid named Ethan.

Ethan was the best death camp student I had ever had(save perhaps Ridley). I briefed him for 10 minutes and he did a perfect hand held jump and landed into the wind in 3 feet of water nearly keeping the tarp dry, he daisy chained the rig and returned it untangled (zero parachute jumps prior of course) after 2 more perfect hand held launches and watching me pack and listening, the guy could nearly pack his own base rig. it was uncanny. he was doing perfectly. this guy and ALL of my students have WAY better launch and jump performance and learn to pack much sooner with confidence than any of the fjc's I have seen done. I am a natural at teaching (no joke).

anyways for his 4th jump, Ethan is walking out to the center of my bridge with his PC in his hand and he says "hey jt, can I go a little longer before throwing this time?" I patted him on the back and said " sure, go as long as you feel like. You got it bro."

he launches perfect..

1 second

2 seconds

3 seconds... still perfect... sweet bro! nows good

4 seconds and he is now on his back (the PC while not top skin exposed was bunched up in his hand and created some drag) he is on his back still holding the PC.

4 plus and he pitches... WHAMMO!! slider down slammer of an opening into 4 full line twists... I am thinking... ok, no problem, he is low as hell he will hit the water... but of course he was 90 right... heading straight for shore. but this guy was a champion, he kicked out of the line twists super fast (I had briefed him on those at the swing set) got out of 4 full line twists and he is now 5 or 10 feet above the trees that separate the boulder field LZ from the beach LZ. I am concerned he is gonna panic hook himself towards the water as I stress water landings to my death campers, but he un stows and flares slow and deep into the trees, it was all any jumper could do at that point...

moral of the story. death camp all you want, but don't give them the old. "yeah bro, take as long of a delay as you feel like"... stupid

unclepotatohead

wow! i wrote a novel... hope you enjoy it.

1. When did you buy the bridge from Miles?

2. The reason why you are a good teacher is because you know how easy BASE is so you don't over-complicate the shit out of it.

3. I always say to my tandem students that after BASE, skydiving is the easiest thing there is.

When my tandem students say something
like "That's got to be the most exciting,
intense damn thing on the planet."

I reply "The only two things more intense
are robbing banks and BASE jumping!"

Of course I tell them I do not recommend either

you are right. at least half of the death campers were sober!

3..2..1...top rail bail!

Thanks JT that story was really great. Its been since kirkwood 2003 since I saw you last, keep on rockin I love the new msp film!
So "Death Camp" I think in the end it is the will of the person, they want it bad so they go for it. However they cant just go out and jump alone, if they had to it would really slim down the community, that would take some guts. I guess we love the sport so we cant help but be excited when others are pumped to check it out. Same goes for most sports, or at least the ones we do. Well thanks for your thoughts everyone that posted. Since we all know the cliche about the name "death camp" perhaps we should call it "Life Camp" ?? ok keepin' it real... Peace