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Fatality - Lauterbrunnen
 
http://www.espace.ch/artikel_417413.html

http://www.news.ch/...lt/286484/detail.htm

In reply to:
Base-Jumper an Mürrenfluh abgestürzt

Ein 35-jähriger Base-Jumper ist am Freitagnachmittag bei einem Sprung von der Mürrenfluh bei Lauterbrunnen tödlich verunfallt. Es handelt sich um einen Mann aus den USA.

Der Mann sprang nach einer Kollegin vom Startplatz aus ins Tal, wie das Untersuchungsrichteramt Berner Oberland und die Polizei mitteilten. Nachdem sich der Schirm geöffnet hatte, drehte sich dieser um 180 Grad, was bewirkte, dass der Base-Jumper direkt in die Felswand prallte. Er stürzte in der Folge 150 Meter in die Tiefe.

approx. Translation:

A 35-Year old BASE-Jumper died friday afternoon on a jump from the Mürrenfluh close to Lauterbrunnen. (The Nose)
It was a man from the USA.

The Man jumped after a female Jumper from the starting point to the Valley, according to the Authorities.
After the Parachute opened it turned 180 degrees, and the jumper hit the wall. in the consequence the jumper fell 150m in to the deep.

Frown
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Re: [BASE_1007] Fatality - Lauterbrunnen
Frown
Sad news...condoleances for friend and family..
Nico
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Re: [BASE_1007] Fatality - Lauterbrunnen
Condolences to his family and friends!
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Re: [bumbum] Fatality - Lauterbrunnen
Can somone pm me the name please. A friend of mine is there right now and I am hoping that it is not him.
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Re: [BASE_1007] Fatality - Lauterbrunnen
This is a hard one to digest.

Good friend, great jumper, and really good people.

It sucks huge time.

Condolences to friends and family.
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Re: [BASE_1007] Fatality - Lauterbrunnen
Fuck I'm gonna miss him.Frown
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Re: [BASE_1007] Fatality - Lauterbrunnen
"the canopy opened 180 and then flew into the wall.".

So there was eye's-on to the fatality ? Was it reliable like an experienced BASE jumper or a ground crew or just a tourist or local resident ?
Then we are talking Line-twists ?
line-over ?
Both ?
Interested in knowing the facts. Not just a Posting to a fatality.Then a Link to a news Paper. Said he exited after the female. Then did she land in LZ then he exited ? Or was there a 2-way exit and he was in rear/above ?
What are the Facts ? What was the reason the canopy pilot could not alter his direction of Heading ?
.
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Re: [RayLosli] Fatality - Lauterbrunnen
I'm sure the people attending the jump or the other jumper will give the infos when they'll be ready. Now is not the time for this.

Until then, the only thing we should do is to give condolences to the family and friends.

My sincere condolences to them!
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Re: [UPS] Fatality - Lauterbrunnen
My sincerest condolences to family and friend also.

Forum Heading does not say it is a place to give remorse and condolences. A fatality was Posted for all to read. I was just trying to read something.
If you want the BASE Fatality to be kept Discreet and not to talk or ask questions. Do Not Post it in a public BASE forum that says. " A forum to report, discuss and learn from fatal or serious incidents."

Another thing ? Talk . " When everyone is ready " ? Kind of a funny statement for BASE. The day you can not talk about fatality in BASE is the day you or I should quit. Because BASE and Death seem to stick close and personal on a very regular schedule to all that participate. Does it not ?
.
.
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Re: [RayLosli] Fatality - Lauterbrunnen
Back off. The person who jumped before the deceased jumper is his fiancee. She is an incredibly strong person and she wants to post what she knows about the jump herself. Right now there are a million other things going on.
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Re: [RayLosli] Fatality - Lauterbrunnen
RayLosli wrote:
Forum Heading does not say it is a place to give remorse and condolences.

I'm with Ray on this one. an "Incidents" forum should be about, well, incidents. that means facts, questions, analysis, etc. it should be about information that can help us all. it should be about the jump.

obviously, some people are suffering enormously. their grief is their own. I wish them the best. for them, I'd like to see a "Memorial" forum. a place to post photos, comments, support, etc. a place where the emphasis is on the person.

I think one thread can't effectively cover both angles and only serves to anger people...
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Re: [RayLosli] Fatality - Lauterbrunnen
RayLosli wrote:
Forum Heading does not say it is a place to give remorse and condolences.

No, the heading doesn't say that. But read a few recent threads in this topic. There is generally a period of a few days before any specific information is released. During these days, people express condolences, do some soul searching, etc. If you are patient, details usually follow.

If you haven't seen it, there was an article in the International Herald Tribune:
http://www.iht.com/...-BASE-Jump-Death.php
which gives a different story.

In reply to:
Because BASE and Death seem to stick close and personal on a very regular schedule to all that participate. Does it not ?

Yes, indeed it does. Very regular indeed. The last calendar month without an entry on the list was August, 2006.

Condolences.
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Re: [Istvan] Fatality - Lauterbrunnen
Like I was just telling someone else who PM'ed me. I was aware they were hooked up. I thought there might have been more than one eye witness other than her & Not trying too be a dick but I guess I am just a little callused over with people getting killed every month.
.
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Re: [RayLosli] Fatality - Lauterbrunnen
RayLosli wrote:
"the canopy opened 180 and then flew into the wall.".

So there was eye's-on to the fatality ? Was it reliable like an experienced BASE jumper or a ground crew or just a tourist or local resident ?
Then we are talking Line-twists ?
line-over ?
Both ?
Interested in knowing the facts. Not just a Posting to a fatality.Then a Link to a news Paper. Said he exited after the female. Then did she land in LZ then he exited ? Or was there a 2-way exit and he was in rear/above ?
What are the Facts ? What was the reason the canopy pilot could not alter his direction of Heading ?
.

I spoke about the fatality with jumper at the moment in the valley. As far as she knew, they (the deceased and his fiance) were jumping alone and only jumper who saw the actual incident was the jumper who jumped first. There also were some tourists eye witnessing the accident. As far as she knew, the jump was not a 2 way but both were doing solos with the deceased going second. I'm sure we'll get the exact facts when the time is right but as it has been said earlier, right now there are million other things to do.

I met the deceased jumper last year and it saddens me to see that yet again we lost another brother. Sincere condolences to family and friends, dark times it is.
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Re: [RayLosli] Fatality - Lauterbrunnen
Ray,

Stop being so abrasive.

Call me and we can talk.

For the rest of you, we will never know what really happened other than the 180, the wall strike, and the unusual high pull. We can only make speculations. The only reliable eye witness (his fiancee) only saw him after opening right before the impact.

That's the only info we will have.

Don't psycho-analyze this accident. This is a clear example that even the best of us can go in because just shit happens.

The deceased and I were jumping the ITW in the winter with 5'of snow and ice on the ground. When I jumped I slipped and went heads low for like 4 seconds, because it's the ITW I actually did not give a rat's ass...when he saw my canopy he started laughing he went and slip on the icy exist as well and went heads down! He did not give a rat's ass either becaue of the nature of that object.

On the contrary, going heads low where this accident happened is bad news because you must clear a ledge with a good track. Now this is just a scenario, I don't know if B went heads low...we will never know what happened. What we know is that his canopy opened unusually high, and if you knew B, you knew high pulls were not his cup of tea by any means. So MAYBE his exist was not the best (it's a tricky exit by the way, not much room, and no possibility of running out the launch), and when he realized he could not clear the ledge he pulled in that mushy sub-terminal limbo for slider up. This is just ONE possible (or not) scenario, one million things could have happened.

Again, we will never know the exact details due to a lack in a eye witness who saw the whole jump.

Again, it's fucking base jumping, even the smallest mistake, or unforeseeable circumstance, or just a small shit happens can kill you. If you have problems with that, stick to skydiving out of airplanes.
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Re: [nicknitro71] Fatality - Lauterbrunnen
>>Stop being so abrasive.<<

"Abrasive." Oh, that's a fucking gem right there.

A nugget from a man who's usually nothing but abrasive. . . that's rich . . .

After you've known a hundred hurt, and fifty odd dead, you'll figure it out . . . maybe.

You, and some others, get your tights in a wad, as soon as you actually know some one who gets selected for hurtness or death . . .

Shut up until you grow up . . .

NickD Smile
BASE 194
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Re: [BASE_1007] Fatality - Lauterbrunnen
Hi Everyone,
My heart is pounding as I write and relive this for you. I've known for days that I needed to post, but from Blinc to DZ.com to here, I've just never enjoyed the tone of these boards and have maybe posted 3 times since I started jumping in 2001.

To those of you who know and love me, thank you so very much for the emails, phone calls and your support. It has meant so much to me and has been a huge source of strength. To those of you who have suffered many losses and are calloused by another one, I share your hunger for information and urge to understand - although I think some things are not meant for us to understand. I too have lost many, many friends on this journey. I too have felt hardened each time and wanted to tune out, but once it happens on your jump, it has the opposite effect - it makes you soft and grateful and spiritual in your own way. I've needed the past few days to get back to the states and figure out how to make arrangements and all the stuff I've never planned before - just attended. It's a different world on this side of the incident, and I wish this for none of you.

He's not an un-identified jumper, he had a name and his name was Bert Brooks. He was heads up, hardcore, experienced, and he went for it. He absolutely loved jumping. Together we loved big walls. He was more of a purist jumper meaning that the majority of his jumps were earned - a climb, a hike, recon, an arrest, etc., or an occasional flick off a friend's balcony - not a hundred hops off the Perrine by any means. He had a wide variety of objects and approximately 280 base jumps and maybe 500-600 skydives. He had jumps with problems before and he handled it. He could flip and track and swoop; he was on top of his game. He was not a stranger to this craziness, and he definitely knew the score. He was also my best friend and it's impossible for me to write a factual account without the emotion, and for that I will not apologize.

This was our second trip to the valley, but our first time at the nose. We were there last year and jumped only Yellow Ocean and La Mousse. I had refused to jump the nose because Nik Hartshorne PCA'd my first jump at the Perrine. I was never able to forget the image of what I imagined his death looked like. Now I have seen it.

This trip turned so many corners from the minute we arrived in Europe. Our plan was to warm up in Brento, but our bags and rigs didn't arrive until 2 days later, so we missed the weekend and decided it would just be better to go to the Swiss valley. I had been very nervous about jumping because it's been months since I jumped, but Bert was current. Of course, living in MD/DC area, we are never current on big walls. We started with YO and LM and debriefed our tracks. I said I felt I was dipping too low before getting it on, and he felt the same was true for him. We were both jumping in rain jackets and pants. After more jumps off LM we were feeling better about the exit and getting into the track as efficiently as possible. We were both jumping with 38s, and I said I was feeling cracked and was going to try my 34 vented zp. We both changed over and jump LM again. He loved his opening (BJ 260) with the 34 vzp. I went back to my ragged out 38 F1-11. We smiled at the difference, packed up, had our evening, and then went to the Horner. There we talked to another jumper about the nose and Bert was getting excited. I knew he wanted to jump it; I was still ambivalent, but no longer adamantly opposed; I had no concerns from a skill - readiness point of view; it was just my own baggage nagging me. We made tentative plans to meet another jumper the next morning to go there, but the plan didn't work out. No big deal, we figured we could find it with instructions and a little hiking.

Off we went on the cable car etc. We hiked down the trail to the gravel trail but missed the footpath turn off. We ended up hiking a bit more and saw some excellent views of the Eiger. This was by far the best visual we had seen of it and just hung out for a while taking pictures and enjoying the day. After a while longer we decided to go back to the cafe in Winteregg for some water and to find another jumper to show us the way. That's exactly what happened and a bit later there we were on the nose. The other jumper went to the high nose at the trail split; we thanked him for the help and went on.

When we got there, shortly before 2pm, we took our time gearing up and I was incredibly nervous. I tried to not think of death which of course was in the back of my mind. Just as base jumpers do, I fought back the voices in my head and started thinking about what I needed to do on this jump. We started talking about it. So we geared up, climbed under the tree and took the ropes to look over the edge. This was the first time I realized how crappy of an exit point this was. I didn't like it all, but we have both jumped exit points like this before. I said "this is the kind of exit that likes to throw me head low right away" and he agreed. He knew I was nervous and he said only positive things about the jump. With that we walked back up with the ropes a little bit and I called Air Glacier and said 2 minutes. We kissed and said I love you, and walked back down to the edge with the ropes. The plan was for me to go first. I was second guessing where I would exit from. I saw a hunk of grass and asked him if he thought I could stand on it. I put a foot on it and it fell away. I backed off. We looked at the right side, talked about that, then the left side, and I said 2 minutes has probably passed. We heard the helicopter flying around; it was still fine. I stood on the rock sloping down and I just stood there. He said, "come on baby you've got this, just superman off of here" and I did.

I went a little left shoulder low and squeezed everything I had and at 5 seconds I saw myself start moving out and I knew I was good. I saw the trees and kept going. The opening cracked me; I caught my breath and flew to the field and thought to myself 'that wasn't fun and I never want to jump that again...whew"

Landed, looked up and scanned the top for the exit point. I am sure he waited for me to land before jumping but I couldn't see the exit point very well. I kept looking and scanning...where are you...and then I see his canopy inflated and just the very tail end of what might have been an arc finishing the 180 position, and into the wall he went. The canopy was fully inflated and flew into the wall in 2 seconds from the time I saw it. After hitting the wall, it waffled greatly, dropped down a bit ...respond, do something, grab your risers....cut away...climb down....do something...... not fully inflated, it flew into the wall and again and lost pressure....oh no....material....it's not a parachute any more..... it became falling material that caught up with his body.....a wad of blue and silver then bounced all the way down to the talus and nearly to the trees. ...Bert.....omg....no one lives through that.....he's dead...he's dead.... I died too for several minutes. ...what if he's alive.... Air Glacier....then I went running; tourists went running; screaming his name....we couldn't find him. Air Glacier searched several times. Two hours later I saw a body. It wasn't Bert; it was only a body; just a house for his spirit to use while he was here. He wasn't in there anymore. I could feel him around me.

What do we make of this?
First, I believe that each of us enter this world with numbered days. When it's your time, it's your time. So everything I say from here on out is just a function of bringing Bert to his point in time.

Next, understand that the word "twist" got into the report because the police asked me, "other people said he was twisted, is that right?" I said "What other people, the tourists?" ..."Yes." Only 60-90 minutes after this experience, I was exhausted and said "really, he was twisted?" The police asked what I thought; I said I thought I wanted to throw up. I was alone and devastated and couldn't erase the ricochet visual. Now with some time passed, I don't know if it was a twist or a 180. The tourist did tell me he was "a twist" yet none of them spoke good English, and I wonder if their version of "twist" might mean they saw it open and twist to a 180. The more I think on it, I really feel it wasn't what we consider a twist because I think I saw the end of the arc to the 180...but I'll never know for sure.

Next, I think at some point he knew he had problems and he wanted canopy. So, a sub-terminal jump with a terminal pack job and a 34vzp. By the way, he intentionally took the 34 to the nose; we didn't talk about it, but he knew I had a 38 and he wanted the 34. We've never told each other what to do in BASE and that's how we wanted it. I will never know if he had a bad exit (our boots were wet and muddy from the hike but weather conditions were gorgeous; there was a slight wind but not much), or if he went head low, or if he just didn't get his track on - but any of those things are possible. Either way, he wanted canopy and at 5 seconds, or 7 seconds with problems, he was still close to the wall. He did not have time.

Last, I think he was out after the first cliff strike. (As the fiancé, this is a relief to me.) He didn't respond, and he would have if he could have. Maybe a simple take away for anyone who takes the time to read this: please wear a helmet. He was not wearing a helmet and we'll leave it at that. If you all go off on this thread about the helmet thing, I'm going to be throwing up all night, so please don't. This is something we all know. Just wear the darn thing on every single jump you make from this day forward.

That's it.

I have to end by saying that we all know there are certain things that we are just not meant to understand, and this is one where we will never really know what transpired. This whole experience with death beside me is painful yet very spiritual. Several cool things - signs - happened on the days before his death and indisputable ways he's communicated with me since. This has been very peaceful for me. I was afraid that getting on this board and reading all of your opinions too soon would end this crossing over kind of communication/feeling.

This is a public forum and you all just want the facts, but take this piece too - there is most definitely a spirit in each of us that will continue beyond this journey here in the present. While we all know many people who die, dare I say that we are the people who end up leaving our loved ones. So think on this - if your spirit is the next one to leave us, what would you do differently? I have been filled with regret of things I wish I wouldn't have said or things I would have said more often - this is normal. But, what will I do differently from here on out? The list gets longer every day.

Bert used to say that he hoped he wouldn't go out by slipping on a bar of soap in the shower. He definitely gave me a spectacular exit. Go baby go.....

Michelle Carlstrom
BASE 839
Europe Summer 2006 107.jpg
Europe Summer 2006 120.jpg
Europe 2007 094.jpg
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Re: [skygemini] Fatality - Lauterbrunnen
Thank you Michelle. Even in your darkest hour you outshine all of us.

Bert,

RIP my friend.
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Re: [gweeks] Fatality - Lauterbrunnen
In reply to:
Even in your darkest hour you outshine all of us
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Re: [skygemini] Fatality - Lauterbrunnen
Thanks for that, Michelle. This is definitely a hard thing to swallow.

I'll be seeing you soon, and am always willing to help however I can.


Fly free, Bert... we'll be missing you, buddy.
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Re: [skygemini] Fatality - Lauterbrunnen
Sir, I think I understand. In death, members of project mayhem have a name. His name was Bert Brooks.

His name was Bert Brooks
His name was Bert Brooks
His name was Bert Brooks
His name was Bert Brooks

RIP Frown
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Re: [Treejumps] Fatality - Lauterbrunnen
Deepest condolences to you Michelle.
As you so elequently say, the body is merely a carrier for the soul.....

and dont forget......

life is merely part of a journey.....not the destination...

Godspeed Bert
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Re: [skygemini] Fatality - Lauterbrunnen
Hi Michelle,

I am really sadened to hear about this. Bert was a really nice guy, helping me and Johan with some jumps before BD2005. I hope you will find the strength to pass this dark time.

Ronald
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Re: [skygemini] Fatality - Lauterbrunnen
Hi Michelle,

I can imagine how difficult it was to write that, and I'm sure that many appreciate it. Just to clarify, was the jump at the High Nose, or the Nose?

Out of interest, was Bert's canopy vented or unvented?
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Re: [Pendragon] Fatality - Lauterbrunnen
Our prayer and thoughts go to you Michelle and Bert.

-Ahmed
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Re: [Pendragon] Fatality - Lauterbrunnen
Bert's canopy was vented: BlackJack 260.

The jump was from the Nose (not the High Nose)
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Re: [skygemini] Fatality - Lauterbrunnen
big loves from the cincy crew.

Bert will be missed
fly high buddy. . . keep on flyin'

hugs for Michelle
from Jimmy, Mark, Ben and the rest
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Re: [Skysquatch] Fatality - Lauterbrunnen
My deepest condolences to all...
Fly free bro!
BSBD Frown
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Re: [skygemini] Fatality - Lauterbrunnen
 
In reply to:
Bert used to say that he hoped he wouldn't go out by slipping on a bar of soap in the shower. He definitely gave me a spectacular exit. Go baby go.....

For some reason these words brought tears to my eyes. It tells me you were truly his soulmate. What strength and respect you have for him. You have my deepest sympathy.

Dave Overland
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Re: [skygemini] Fatality - Lauterbrunnen
I'm so sorry for your loss Michelle Frown I felt your story in my heart, and its hurts for you. You and Bert are well lit people. Keep shining girl.
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Re: [skygemini] Fatality - Lauterbrunnen
Michelle - How beautiful, and incredible of you to post such. I can not even begin to imagine. I was directed here to this today, by a mutual friend. I do not know if this is appropriate to post here, or not - as I am not familiar with these BASE forums. If it is not, well then - so be it. Mod's as on dropzone.com can do as they will.

The following is something I just plain "blurted out" posted, on a little private e-mail list that is shared with a few of our mutual friends, upon learning of this terrible tragedy, and I thought you might like to know, and that I will now simply share with you here. Michelle - You have my most heartfelt love and condolences. Bert touched deeply, many more than just the BASE community. Again, just very plain & simply I thought you might like to know...

---(begin copy-n-paste)---
I had taken Bert on a few RW jumps recently, and can not think of a more genuinely beautiful person. He was ALWAYS positive, receptive, humble - and yes BEAUTIFUL. I did not know him well, but this is hitting me hard. I am going to miss his shy smile, and his soft spoken ways around our DZ now immensely. Sometimes it seems, you just never know how someone has touched you until they are gone. I promised him to get to him on an RW jump the last weekend he was down, and I remember as the end of the day came, and I had gotten all tied up it seems elsewhere, him coming up to me and asking if we were getting on the last load. I was with Trevor playing that silly foxtail ball thing, and I remember saying I'd get to him next time. Was Bert upset? Taken back? - No! His response was that it was so cool that I would take the time to instead play with my son, as he smiled and just watched us then for just a bit. I don't recall if he said it exactly this way or not - and maybe it was just my impression in now thinking back - but it seemed to me as if it was something he too would also do - and that was just Bert (to me) in a nutshell. Just a lot of total unselfish mutual respect. Always. I swear, there could be a literal shit-storm brewing around Bert, and I'm sure he would be the proverbial absolute calm and POSITIVE calming eye of the storm.

Shit, this is hitting me even harder than I thought it would as I find myself pausing to whipe away tears (again) right now. Please do Gregor, let us know what/when the arrangements are, and whatever - ANYTHING we possibly can do now for any of you - his clearly much closer friends, and of course Michelle - who simply must be devasted. You all are my family - and I truly do LOVE you all (and yes I will put that in ALL CAPITAL LETTERS EVEN AGAIN - I LOVE YOU ALL) so very much! Maybe we should all take the time to say and think/remember that more often, as now I/we don't have that opportunity any more with our BROTHER Bert - and right now, that is what truly hurts.

I love you Bert, and I will miss you, and I still owe you that RW dive, that you so graciously stepped aside for me to instead have some time with my son for. I will meet up with you again one day and we will do that and we will fly brilliantly together, I promise you - as no doubt you are flying free now, and we all will someday join you.

Fly Free my brother. My beautiful spirited, beautiful souled brother. I will save a slot for you, in my next formation.

BSBD,
-Grant
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Re: [Scrumpot] Fatality - Lauterbrunnen
So sorry to hear this Michelle.Frown Sending good vibes your way.

Ray
BASE #578
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Re: [skygemini] Fatality - Lauterbrunnen
My sincerest condolences. It is a terrible thing you have been through.

Frown

In reply to:
Several cool things - signs - happened on the days before his death and indisputable ways he's communicated with me since.

Its weird how people remember the little details and how they mean so much. Those signs may have always been there, but they just take on a greater meaning and understanding when we lose something or someone.
We should always look for them. Everyone should take the opportunity to make those signs obvious to our friends and family and lovers and . . . before they become just memories.

May God and your extended friends and family be with you through this time.
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Re: [skygemini] Fatality - Lauterbrunnen
Oh sweet Michelle, you are in my thoughts and prayers. Deepest condolences and all my love.
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Re: [skygemini] Fatality - Lauterbrunnen
My thoughts are with you Michelle.

Fly free Bert...

J
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Re: [BASE_1007] Fatality - Lauterbrunnen
So long brother......

BSBD
WV (2).JPG
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Re: [Naptown] Fatality - Lauterbrunnen
So long bro. Sorry to you and a whole gang of others back on that coast cuz it's been so goddamn long. i can still see you & me docked in the air over x-keys that day with heckel & parker when I first learned to pick a lock. What'd you have, 150 jumps then? True, you're gone, friend, but you lived & loved the life that I never had the balls to. Respect.

sean m.
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Re: [murps2000] Fatality - Lauterbrunnen
Thanks for one last cool jump. We knew you were there.

BSBD
bert on the jump.jpg
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Re: [Treejumps] Fatality - Lauterbrunnen
I can't believe it's already been one year! Feels like yesterday.....Unsure
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Re: [Naptown] Fatality - Lauterbrunnen
it's crazy...

i was thinking about B this morning... and how it's been a year since i've seen him.
bert.jpg
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Re: [nicknitro71] Fatality - Lauterbrunnen
In reply to:
Again, it's fucking base jumping, even the smallest mistake, or unforeseeable circumstance, or just a small shit happens can kill you. If you have problems with that, stick to skydiving out of airplanes.

I read your post and found lots of explanations and reasons on why the nose jump could be difficult. Then I read your post about two people in a row slipping in the snow and not giving a shit. Shit does not happen. Things happen. If someone reads your post about the nose, they can learn heaps and do heaps to manage those risks - or as you call them - shit happens. I have been off that exit point a few times. It is not a simple access jump. Remember people slipping off it, people going head down, etc.

Although Ray can be a straight shooter, and yes, it can be insensitive to loved ones and close friends, this is an incidents forum and it's purpose is to report and discuss incidents via disemmination of information and sharing of experience and knowledge.

If I ever go in making a gross error of judgement, I would like people to say something like: "Tom was a nice guy, but what he did was really stupid. I hope that no one else does the same thing. And if people read this and it sticks in their minds. Then that is a good thing.

Saying that someone made a mistake is not disrespectful of a person in my book. We are human after all.

With respect to specific events, it is not right for anyone to claim they know the facts and to make statements accordingly - unless they know for sure. It can have many potential detrimental affects, legal and otherwise. However, stating possibilities with the proviso that it is only an opinion and not fact, followed by a healty discussion about how to manage that issue is a good thing.

I looked at the list earlier this year and discovered that:
- 120 people
- I knew 12 personally
- I was aquainted with another 6.

That is 15% of all. I know there are people who knew more than I.

Getting information out about incidents (in a controlled way) is very important. To do it in a timely manner is also important especially when technique or equipment issues are involved. Kind of a like a product recall.

Imagine this - Sept 11 attacks. Lets wait until everything settles before we investigate and discuss? Or do we start talking (in a controlled and respectful manner).

Regarding loved ones who witness accidents. My belief is that it is up to them whether or not they divulge information now or later. I think they should divulge at some stage. But I also think that they have a personal priority on managing the whole loss process in a manner that enables them to move on in life. If that means not reporting anything, than so be it. They already bear the burden of witnessing tragedy and experiencing personal loss. They have already payed an unfathomable price and no one has the right to "demand" more from them.

But there is another factor. This is where friends and colleagues believe that the one that has passed should not be looked upon or discussed as making a mistake and that no one should talk about this possibility. This denial of fact in my opinion is not the correct response. The sooner you accept fact, the easier is is to move on.

Just my thoughts.

p.s Ray - here is one for you - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unkIVvjZc9Y