Basejumper.com - archive

Some thoughts on basejumper.com . . .

When I started the very first "BASE discussion board" on the internet in 1991 one of the early messages was from the late Mike Allen and it went like this:

>>Aviation RT
Category 11, Topic 21
Message 39, Thursday, April 24, 1991
M.ALLEN28
20:11 EDT

I'm alive and breathing! And this old gravity just keeps bringing me down. I didn't see much activity on this board and wonder just how many participate. It must be a really elite sub-species of BASE jumper. I'll throw my 2-cents in when something sparks a neuron. REMEMBER: Always practice safe BASE, and always know your partners!

C-ya,
Mike<<

That year now sounds like a long time ago. Grunge was in with Nirvana being the hot band, and the net hadn't yet gone "commercial" or "graphical." Gopher was the popular interface. Mike's reference to an "elite sub-species" meant you had to BASE jump and also understand how to use a command line. There was no discussion, at the time, of should we be talking about BASE on an open forum as there was no general "public" awareness of BASE jumping and we didn’t foresee the millions of people who'd go online over the next few years.

Over the next decade a few "BASE boards" came and went and for the usual reasons. Lack of moderation and the "bonehead wars" killed them off while we bemoaned the fact moderation would be needed at all. A few BASE jumpers hid behind fake names and pushed personal agendas that did a lot of damage. "We against them," all too quickly became "us against us." It may have been inevitable, but all the same, it was a sad thing to witness.

It soon became apparent to many jumpers, myself included, that talking about BASE on the internet was a zero sum formula. The bottom line, at the time, was the more we educated the world to BASE jumping the less we were able to it. This remains true to this day. However, there is now an "illusion" that coming out of closet has been good for us. That now we have all these corporate and state sponsored events, but many (and I'll dare say most) jumpers would still rather show up in the dead of night rather than have a "Red Bull" sticker stuck to their asses.

I don't want to sound too much like I'm bemoaning the old days as BASE jumping is light years ahead of where it was in the 90s and I'd never want to go back there. But, there are lessons in the 90s that we bury at our own peril. To those still following the fairy tale that openness is good and that someday the public and the authorities will come around to our way of thinking need only look at skydiving. They've been at it for close to 60 years and in general are considered knuckleheads while they are getting booted off airports all over. In that context, we don’t have prayer.

The "BASE Zone" here on DZ.com came about around the same time the accident and fatality rate was beginning to spike. I participated in the BASE zone, like others I'm sure, because I believed we needed to educate new jumpers or face the consequences of our inaction. Keep in mind, in the topic description, it read in effect, this was a place for skydivers to come and get life saving information. There is no other valid reason for an open and public "BASE board" save that.

Now that we have gone from a bunch of individuals to crewing up (sort of like the Mafia) local and private "BASE boards" are beginning to sprout up. These boards are "invitational only" and I believe are the way we need to go in the future. Someone explain to me why DZ.com's Bonfire now requires registration to read while BASEjumper.com is wide open?

We have finally taught USPA (and it took thirty years) that BASE and skydiving are sister sports practiced by mostly the same people. They have now dropped their ban in PARACHUTIST against using the "BASE" word. So to me separating the BASE Zone from DZ.com is going backwards. The BASE zone was the one place skydivers could feel somewhat comfortable asking newbie questions and while I've been following the new BASEjumper.com I find there's not much meat. A lot of one liners and preaching to the choir is all I see.

In lieu of bringing the BASE Zone back, which I don’t think will happen, I suggest all local crews create their own private boards. This would keep us out of the public eye and get us back to more like it was. Boy goes to the DZ and becomes a skydiver, Boy expresses an interest in BASE. Boy is invited to join a local private board and it goes from there.

Recently there was "reporter" asking Qs on BASEjumpes.com. and he got the usual malicious responses. That reporter is going to slam BASE jumpers every chance he gets for the rest of his life. The beauty of BASE, and the thing we most often forget, is we need no ones support or permission. So we don't need to make "friends" because we don't have to kiss anyone's ass. But we also don't need to make enemies. And that's just what we did with that reporter. There's an old saying about newspapers that's worth remembering, never pick a fight with someone who buys ink by the barrel!

Sure, legal jumps are convenient. But the price you pay is someone telling what to do. I believe an experienced BASE jumper can do whatever the hell they want to do. That mantra has gotten us were we are. Carl Boenish never asked permission to try out the first Velcro closed BASE rig. Patrick de Gayardon never asked permission to fly a wingsuit off a cliff. Dwain Weston never asked anyone's permission to start doing aerials. And it goes on and on. If you go along with asking permission and following the rules it's like saying, "we are there" and we are nowhere near being "there" yet.

So I know for sure, and I think most agree, the only true responsibility we have is to educate our newbies. But we just have to change the model of how we do it. And I think the new formula should be, "go big, go local, and go private."

On the other hand is following a few simple rules, like at the potato bridge, worth it? That's a complicated question. It's certainly worth it to the locals but the precedent it sets may not be. In Europe they occasionally close sites so nothing is forever, but the truth is "it is forever" if we'd just be willing to tell the authorities to go screw themselves.

Dennis McGlynn, (read his letter below) among others (yes, even John Vincent) paid the price by going to jail. Jan Davis and Frank Gambalie (among others) paid with their lives. That's our legacy and it's one we aren’t living up to. BASE jumping, et al, will never be fully legal. We will never be allowed to climb and jump off buildings and towers owned by others. Not in my lifetime anyway. But there is a chance, in another time, maybe a hundred years from now when it will be accepted behavior. That's what we should be fighting for, BASE jumping on our own terms.

Anything less is just RedBullShit . . .

NickD
BASE 194

Below is a 1999 letter to the BASE community from Dennis McGlynn. It's something we all need to remember . . .

KEEP THE FIGHT ALIVE!!!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well all my Base jumping friends, I'm off to jail today to start my three month sentence. Does anyone out there think that it was a coincidence that I must surrender one week before bridge day? They tried to keep me from attending last year and almost succeeded. but at the last minuet with Fred's help we managed to stay one step ahead of them and I was able to attend my 11th year. It has been a hectic time for Brenda and I, and they seem to have effectively shut me down this year. I'm sure society will benefit from this action against me for a noncrime misdemeanor.

They said I must pay for what I did because of the extending and aggravated circumstances which was the death of Paul Thompson. The charges were aiding and abetting. I stand by my belief and understanding that if there was no crime committed in the first place then all the extending and aggravated circumstances don't apply . It's the same as saying I aided and abetted him to jet ski, cliff dive( into water without a rig) boating, swimming, parasailing , hang gliding, paragliding, float planes, and yes they have said that it is even legal to jump out of airplanes and parachute onto the lake without a permit. Saying that a parachute jump is clearly distinguishable from a BASE JUMP. And a BASE JUMP is illegal with out a permit. An absolute folks, there is absolutely no law whatsoever stating that BASE JUMPING is illegal air delivery. But, it's what they use to manipulate this regulation against us.

The latest brief filed by the US attorneys office has run out of answers . They are stepping on themselves and talking in circles,(a PARACHUTE JUMP is ok but a BASE JUMP is NOT, go figure. If I had fought and won the aiding and abetting we would already be back to square one. No 10th circuit appellate review, no principle established, and no precedent set. I simply would have been acquitted of "The Crime" which is "aiding and abetting, delivering a person or object by parachute , helicopter, or other airborne means.

I chose not to let that happen but instead challenged the root crime of this aiding and abetting, which again, is the air delivery regulation. I took my chances and now the 10th circuit court of appeals must review our case. They did not want this to happen and offered me several plea bargains that if I had taken I would be going to bridge day and would not owe over seven thousand dollars in fines and restitution. I got slammed because I stood up for what IS right. They are not right, this is not right, and it won't get right until we make it right. Please don't let me sit in there for nothing.

We have momentum and ammunition. Frank paid the ultimate price and it CAN NOT go unnoticed! Then there is the Yosemite prosecutor Scott Connelly who was convicted of raping little boys and even videoing himself doing so. He got 16 mouths and walked. He should have gotten life just like the others of his kind get when caught doing the same thing. Collectively we are an incredibly talented and motivated group. It's time to motivate and rally whatever it takes to expose this flagrant abuse of power and waste of money. The permit system in the NPS was meant to manage not to permit. I will miss all of you at bridge day this year. I hope it all goes well and everyone stays safe. If anyone is looking for gear Brenda will have plenty at the Gravity Sports booth, and any support will be greatly appreciated. As I am out of work for the next three months things are going to be tight. I'll be back and when I am it's going to be my turn. as long as the MUFF BROTHER flag is flying I'll be there. The NPS doesn't even have a clue.

Peace , love and blue skies.

I gotta run, C-YA,
Dennis, MB#1

PS, Brenda will be here to keep updates on what's going on. I would enjoy any and all letters from any and all of you. I need the support for interviews, etc.

My new Address: Inmate Dennis McGlynn
Washoe County Jail
911 Parr Boulevard
Reno, NV 89512

Call this number to arrange personal visits or for interviews: 775-328-2952

What about the few of us that are "nomadic" and travel almost constantly?? How are we supposed to inform the locals?? Or should we just throw ethics out the window and follow in J. Agnos' footsteps??

 

I'm not sure I buy in to all of your points. I'm not sure the future is quite as bleak as you paint it. Granted there was a time when we were unnoticed and could get away with a lot of shit. In some ways that was a golden age when construction sites were wide open and even if they did see you they didn't necessarily think to arrest you or know what to charge you with. If things had not gone bad in Yosemite the sport might have been able to grow on it’s natural course. That was before my time and I don’t know if it ever really had a chance of working but we (collectively) or rather they (the people of that era) fucked it up royally. When we got driven into the dark in the parks seems to be when the public perception turned to perceiving this as an illegal act. I don’t know how many times I’ve had to explain to people that there is for the most part no law against base jumping. I don’t remember what year it was that the liability laws turned so sower but I’m thinking the late seventies early eighties the pendulum of the legal climent was swinging against us. That along with the negative perception killed the hope of public acceptance. If it weren’t for the parks we would have been doing demos at all the grand opening of every building over 20 floors for the last 25 years.

We’ve been hiding in the dark for more then two decades. In some ways I think it did us a lot of good. It deffintly demanded a higher level of maturity. One of the things about some of the newer generation, post potato bridge, that bothers me is that they seem to lack a little of that. In some ways I think it’s a little too easy these days. The other thing that strikes me is that they don’t seem to be nearly as scared as I remember being. There ambition level seems to be much higher. I would never have dared to try some of the things that they seem to want to do in there first fifty jumps. Hell, I still don’t have the balls to try and pull some of the shit they’re doing. A lot of this is why I generally don’t teach. That and the fact that they don’t seem to listen very well to what advice I do give them.

Sooner or later we do have to come in from the cold. Although going underground put the breaks on the sport and allowed us the time to develop and mature it’s hurt us quit a bit over the years. It will be a long hard road to change the perception that has built up of this being wrong and criminal. And we have to do that. Sooner or later if this attitude persists we will be crushed. Look at some of the laws that have been passed over the last few years. Public lands are our best chance for the future. Even if we are to hold on to the access we have with the BLM. I do think that one day the parks will be accessible. That there will come a time when it’s no bigger deal then checking in for a back country hike. It could be. It’s been 25 years and counting. The people in charge of the parks are or will be changing. Now and in the years to come is our chance. If these people have grown up seeing skydiving and base jumping all there lives the idea of signing off on a permit will not seem so alien to them.

It started with McGlynn and his “In your face” attitude. I remember when he started organizing his competitions as a way to get access to sites. People have ridden on the coat tails of the Red Bull craze and Go Fast. There have been a lot of movie and TV gigs. All of this has brought it more and more into the public eye. And on the whole I think that’s a good thing. Is it the route we are going to follow as a sport? No. We’re using each other that’s all. And both sides are benefiting from it. I’ve never been into those events. I think I’m missing the “Look at me gene” that makes people want to be in front of the camera. Still even when I make fun of those guys I still support the principle of it. In the long run I think it’s the best chance to open doors that will lead us some were that actually has a future.

Lee

friends of friends will always know a local. private boards WOULD be best, I agree with Nick.

This is just a thought. I'm not a jumper and my opinion doesn't mean shit. Only a handful of you know me, so take it for what it's worth.

Everybody moving to private boards doesn't seem like a bad idea if things are done right. There are benefits to small, private communities and there are benefits to large, worldwide communities. I believe that there is a way to get both.

I'll take this board as an example, just because it is what it is right now. 90% of people who post here know and jump with people who post here. Here's the thought. Open up a ton of local sub-forums that ONLY people from that area who are known by other locals in that area have access too. That is, even though there would be dozens of boards for dozens of cities, each person would only have access to one or two of them. New registrations wouldn't have access to these boards, they would have to be invited. Hell, these local boards could be completely invisible to everybody who isn't a local. That keeps shit private and lets locals discuss things in the same way they would on a wholly separate and private board.

Also keep a global board, but keep it inaccessible unless you are a local in some sub-forum. This way there would be a global discussion area that would be invisible to new registrations and public eyes, but the global learning could still happen. What if somebody from Phoenix has a terminal question? What if somebody in FL comes up with some new line control system? The word can still spread globally, but it can do so in a private manner that only jumpers will have access to.

Outside of that, there would be the "public" board. Boards to keep overzealous AFF jumpers from GoFasting themselves right off of the nearest parking structure. They would have no access to or knowledge of the aforementioned private forums. It's not like this is a way to get into the other forums, it's just a way to appease and/or dissuade the curious.

I don't know, I'm talking out of my ass. I just think that there are benefits to maintaining some global contact between locals greater than a phone or email can provide. Word could spread like wildfire over the phones when there were 200 global jumpers. Now that there are thousands? I don't know. I wasn't around then and I'm barely around now. But to this outsider... it doesn't seem like a terrible idea.

I don't know. I have no justification for saying shit about the way that something was, should be or will be. Shrug it off if I'm way off-base, but it's just a thought from the peanut gallery who doesn't know shit.

you make a good point there, on the arrangement and set up...

however sangiro doesn't care enough about us lowly base jumpers to program that into his site ;-)

Why do you need hundreds of local boards that only give access to locals? That segregates everybody and stifles knowledge.

If local crews or individuals want to have a private conversation, take it to PM's or emails or phone calls or a bar or better yet go flik something together.

Participation in the forums is voluntary...you can lurk here all day PM'ing people and never post a thing.

I like his suggestion of a global, private board... plus a bunch of tiny locals ones. Leave you more free to talk about objects or plans. or even make some fun posts with people that understand a sick sense of humor. but then you still have that global sharing of information. and then a public board for media relations and newbies.

its no fun to have a sick sense of humor unless there is people who dont understand it.

WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!

"Anything less is just RedBullShit . . . "

What does that mean? Like, red bull shit? like the bull's shit is red? like the bull has blood in his shit?

restricting access on the "local" sites would become very difficult. it would end up incredibly political and cliquey.

moderation? how? by whom? lack of such has driven users away before...

maybe it's time to show off your programming skills? show us what it should be? (there is no reason this site MUST survive.)

in the US, debates rage between "intelligent design" vs evolution, regulation vs "free market," private health insurance vs government provided, etc.

in each of these debates, one side favors control, the other oganically grown solutions.

the more BASE comes out of the shadows, the more the pendulum will swing toward some form of control/regulation/etc. to keep it "legal."

people do NOT need to use this site. I assume many already do not. other sites and forums exist. if they get the formula right, users will drift toward them. this promotes the organic growth or evolution of BASE.

but "We're Pissing in the Wind?" of course we are! BASE is not critical to anyone's survival. it is recreation. it won't save the planet. no matter what we say or do, most will consider it frivolous. marketers love the shocking visual impact.

I'm all for honoring those who gave significantly to BASE. many sacfificed much and others are willing to follow in those footsteps. I commend them.

still, that does NOT elevate the struggle to some cause celeb that deserves the public attention. heck, the US has been involved in a military action in Iraq for years, but supporters continue to claim the public "just doesn't understand..." and the action loses popularity. [subject brought up as a commentary on the public's attention span and desire to understand complex issues. not as an opportunity to change the subject.]

if the public can not focus on such a critical issue of cost and sacrifice, we deceive ourselves to think they will ever focus on us in a positive light.

yep, we ARE pissing in the wind --- with our visions of grandeur.

BASE has been important to ME, but it really is NOT important to a society constantly focused on status, on who is the top dog.