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johan420
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Large vs Smaller TrollDW (mdv)
My last canopy was a Troll DW 245mdv witch i loaded right under 0,70..maybe more like 0,69, and boy i loved that canopy after 80 jumps on it i experienced only one 180.. i used large hole slider on it, and i did`n roll the nose even with a 35+sec flight(36" vented0-P)Cool. But i ripped this canopy under my last cliffstrike and since my leg was not in the best fit after thats incident i decide too make this genius idea to really go big. I ordered my self another Troll..a 285 for soft landings(WL 0,59))..yes my landings are really soft but the openings is like playing russian roulette..Pirate
I have 20 jumps on it and i have experience 10-11 ON heading openings...rest of it is a lots of 90left/right two 180, one opening with 2 rounds linetwist..
And i had to change the slider too one with a small hole in it...still had to roll the nose..
This must be and underloaded canopy thing, what do you guys think..??
I do have some jumps on Mojo,Fox(v-tec) and Flik(with or without V-tec)they all had great openings, but this canopies was all 240`s so i can`t really comparing it

Now my foot is much better and i have put a order on a smaller TrollSmile
tommyh
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Re: [johan420] Large vs Smaller TrollDW (mdv)
I don't know about you're wingloading qestion, but I would like to make a statement that may be revealing.

I have a troll 245 mdv dw, I load it pretty similarly to you, and it has the worst on heading performance of any base canopy that I have ever jumped (only two other canopies, but still...).
The terminal openings are very good, but slider down, the performance decreases significantly. Out of about 40 s/d jumps, I've had one 180, several 90's, and plenty of 45 off headings. If I have an opening that is dead on heading, that is the exception, not the rule. For slider down, I prefer my unvented fox 285.
NerwOlek
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Re: [tommyh] Large vs Smaller TrollDW (mdv)
It's not about car... it's about driver... Tongue
johan420
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Re: [tommyh] Large vs Smaller TrollDW (mdv)
tommyh wrote:
I don't know about you're wingloading qestion, but I would like to make a statement that may be revealing.

I have a troll 245 mdv dw, I load it pretty similarly to you, and it has the worst on heading performance of any base canopy that I have ever jumped (only two other canopies, but still...).
The terminal openings are very good, but slider down, the performance decreases significantly. Out of about 40 s/d jumps, I've had one 180, several 90's, and plenty of 45 off headings. If I have an opening that is dead on heading, that is the exception, not the rule. For slider down, I prefer my unvented fox 285.


I done a lots of slider-off jumps on my 245 as well, all from 39meters to sub- and still same nice openings..i think i did at least 50 slider-off with this..not one single off-heading..i couldn`t be that lucky..Sly
TomAiello
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Re: [johan420] Large vs Smaller TrollDW (mdv)
What containers are you guys using? Same containers for all the canopies that you are comparing?
johan420
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Re: [TomAiello] Large vs Smaller TrollDW (mdv)
When i jumped my 245 i used a gargoyle wsx-treme, witch is a a firm container...there was no way i could go for a bigger canopy on this container..
now i use a Apex DP-7 witch is made for 280-290chutes...so this is also at the time very firm..it would be much more soft when i put my new 265 in it..

just a question, im not a experienced jumper but would it matter what container i jump??
TomAiello
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Re: [johan420] Large vs Smaller TrollDW (mdv)
johan420 wrote:
just a question, im not a experienced jumper but would it matter what container i jump??

Every canopy and container combination fits differently. And every container closes slightly differently. It may be that your pack job/closing method was suited well to the previous rig, and so it's not working so well for the new setup.

Whenever I seem to be experiencing a high percentage of off headings on a canopy, the first thing I do is switch it to another container and see if that helps things. In my experience, this takes care of the problem about 75% of the time.

It can be that you aren't used to closing the new container, so you're somehow distorting the pack job while closing, or it could be that the combination of the two is unfamiliar to you, so that you're doing something with the s folds or closure that encourages off headings.

Of course, it could also be that you're just experiencing poor inflation due to the very low wingloading (and relatively large canopy).
johan420
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Re: [TomAiello] Large vs Smaller TrollDW (mdv)
yeah ok...well i do follow the manual instruction, starting with the bottom pin and follow with the top.
I have packed Prism1,2..Vertex1,2..gargoyle, gargyle wsx, Perigee(velcro) and PRO and this one..
I must say DP is the most easiest container i ever packed...i just love it!! Cool
robibird
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Re: [tommyh] Large vs Smaller TrollDW (mdv)
strongly recomending to check your packing Tommyh!
TomAiello
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Re: [johan420] Large vs Smaller TrollDW (mdv)
Can you switch the new Troll into one of the other containers and test it out that way?
johan420
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Re: [TomAiello] Large vs Smaller TrollDW (mdv)
sorry, i only have this one....but maybe it getting better when i put my new 265 in my DP7..?
stitch
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Re: [johan420] Large vs Smaller TrollDW (mdv)
In reply to:
yeah ok...well i do follow the manual instruction, starting with the bottom pin and follow with the top.
Is this the correct closing sequence for the APEX DP?? APEX's website only gives instruction for the "Vertex", which is top to bottom. As is most dual pin containers.
TomAiello
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Re: [stitch] Large vs Smaller TrollDW (mdv)
stitch wrote:
In reply to:
yeah ok...well i do follow the manual instruction, starting with the bottom pin and follow with the top.
Is this the correct closing sequence for the APEX DP?? APEX's website only gives instruction for the "Vertex", which is top to bottom. As is most dual pin containers.

Most of the manufacturers recommend closing top pin first. I am uncertain what Apex recommends for the DP, but I'm assuming that Johan has the manual in front of him and is reading it correctly. I know that I've closed DP's both ways.

Closing top first helps to trap the nose in place, to minimize the amount you move and distort the nose (the most important piece of the fabric) as you close the rest of the container.

If you are careful, closing the bottom pin first works just fine. Be aware that doing this requires greater care not to twist the nose to one side or the other as you pull the top loop into place (be very careful not to pull on the pull up cord to bring the flaps into place--rather move the flaps into place with your hands so that you only need to use the cord to guide the closing loop the last few inches). I had a period of about 50 jumps where I was getting regular 90's from closing the top pin last, and doing it poorly. Many thanks to Jimmy Freeman for spotting what I was doing wrong and straightening me out.


I've found that closing the bottom pin first can be quite helpful in managing dynamic corners.
avenfoto
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Re: [TomAiello] Large vs Smaller TrollDW (mdv)
i close bottom pin first, allowing me (in my head, anyway) to secure the lines and tpocket first, as well as allowing me to readjust the nose, and manage the multi just before closing the top pin..
johan420
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Re: [TomAiello] Large vs Smaller TrollDW (mdv)
TomAiello wrote:
stitch wrote:
In reply to:
yeah ok...well i do follow the manual instruction, starting with the bottom pin and follow with the top.
Is this the correct closing sequence for the APEX DP?? APEX's website only gives instruction for the "Vertex", which is top to bottom. As is most dual pin containers.

Most of the manufacturers recommend closing top pin first. I am uncertain what Apex recommends for the DP, but I'm assuming that Johan has the manual in front of him and is reading it correctly. I know that I've closed DP's both ways.

Closing top first helps to trap the nose in place, to minimize the amount you move and distort the nose (the most important piece of the fabric) as you close the rest of the container.

If you are careful, closing the bottom pin first works just fine. Be aware that doing this requires greater care not to twist the nose to one side or the other as you pull the top loop into place (be very careful not to pull on the pull up cord to bring the flaps into place--rather move the flaps into place with your hands so that you only need to use the cord to guide the closing loop the last few inches). I had a period of about 50 jumps where I was getting regular 90's from closing the top pin last, and doing it poorly. Many thanks to Jimmy Freeman for spotting what I was doing wrong and straightening me out.


I've found that closing the bottom pin first can be quite helpful in managing dynamic corners.

i have closed all other 2-pins in your way(top to bottom) but this one has the opposite way....i dont know why, but when i close the bottom i give my container a shake or two...just to put my canopy in place , then i close the top..it`s very easy!Smile
fastpete
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Re: [tommyh] Large vs Smaller TrollDW (mdv)
tommyh wrote:
I don't know about you're wingloading qestion, but I would like to make a statement that may be revealing.

I have a troll 245 mdv dw, I load it pretty similarly to you, and it has the worst on heading performance of any base canopy that I have ever jumped (only two other canopies, but still...).
The terminal openings are very good, but slider down, the performance decreases significantly. Out of about 40 s/d jumps, I've had one 180, several 90's, and plenty of 45 off headings. If I have an opening that is dead on heading, that is the exception, not the rule. For slider down, I prefer my unvented fox 285.
lots of packing hints availabale !! :)
tr027
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Re: [robibird] Large vs Smaller TrollDW (mdv)
robibird wrote:
strongly recomending to check your packing Tommyh!

Yes, Tommy, you need to switch to flat packing! ;)
airdog07
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Re: [tommyh] Large vs Smaller TrollDW (mdv)
in my troll 245 I was getting 20 to 45 to the left 8 out of 10 jumps, I started using 42 vented P, for slide down jumps and 9 out of 10 on heading so the vented do help but the good packing is most important
Winznut
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Re: [tommyh] Large vs Smaller TrollDW (mdv)
tommyh wrote:
I don't know about you're wingloading qestion, but I would like to make a statement that may be revealing.

I have a troll 245 mdv dw, I load it pretty similarly to you, and it has the worst on heading performance of any base canopy that I have ever jumped (only two other canopies, but still...).
The terminal openings are very good, but slider down, the performance decreases significantly. Out of about 40 s/d jumps, I've had one 180, several 90's, and plenty of 45 off headings. If I have an opening that is dead on heading, that is the exception, not the rule. For slider down, I prefer my unvented fox 285.

Same problem here.
I jump a Troll 285 mdv@0.65 myself and on the 20 jumps I made on it, I had maybe 5-6 onheading openings, the rest were 50-180° to the left
Never had on to the right though.

Last night I had 90 left again on my local 100m bridge, hand held with a 2 sec. delay.
An expirend jump watched my exit from the top and told me afterwards that it looked pretty good.
I'm also sure, that I'm not trowing the PC all the way to the right.

Someone mentioned that closing the container could be a major factor in opening performance and therefor I make sure (try to, at least...) that I don't twist the packjob while closing the rig.