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General BASE

ChrisMcNamara Jun 18, 2007, 8:11 PM

Chance to comment on BASE jumping in Zion ends June 29

Only ten more days to comment on the future of legal BASE jumping in Zion National Park.

You may comment online on the proposed continued ban on BASE jumping at the National Park Service website (http://parkplanning.nps.gov/) or you may mail comments to: Zion National Park, Attn: Backcountry Management Plan EA, Springdale, UT 84767. This EA will be available for public review and comment until June 29, 2007.

here is the part of the plan that affects BASE jumpers:

From the ZION NP backcountry management plan EA:

http://www.nps.gov/zion/parkmgmt/zion-backcountry-management-plan-and-environmental-assessment-available-for-review.htm
------------------------------------

Parachuting (Base Jumping)
NPS Management Policies 2006 8.2.2.7 states: Parachuting (or Base Jumping), whether from an aircraft, structure, or natural feature is generally prohibited by 36 CFR 2.17(a)(3). However, if determined through a park planning process to be an appropriate activity, it may be allowed pursuant to the terms and conditions of a permit.

The ZION GMP completed in 2001 does not have a provision to allow base jumping in the park. Also, base jumping was not identified by the public as an activity they would like to see allowed in ZION, so it was not addressed as a potential activity in this document. Therefore, base jumping would continue to be prohibited in ZION and would be subject to the regulations outlined in 36 CRF 2.17

TomAiello Jun 18, 2007, 8:22 PM

Re: [ChrisMcNamara] Chance to comment on BASE jumping in Zion ends June 29

On-line comments submission form.

yuri_base Jun 18, 2007, 8:24 PM

Re: [ChrisMcNamara] Chance to comment on BASE jumping in Zion ends June 29

Direct link

leroydb Jun 18, 2007, 8:41 PM

Re: [ChrisMcNamara] Chance to comment on BASE jumping in Zion ends June 29

Thanks for the link!

inzite Jun 19, 2007, 3:09 AM

Re: [ChrisMcNamara] Chance to comment on BASE jumping in Zion ends June 29

Thanks. Well-worded, respectful comment in support of backcountry parachuting submitted to NPS.

gweeks Jun 19, 2007, 7:04 AM

Re: [ChrisMcNamara] Chance to comment on BASE jumping in Zion ends June 29

I am writing to urge you to remove the ban on BASE jumping in Zion National Park. BASE jumpers as a group adhere to the same ethical principle as back country campers of "leave no trace." We exhibit and complement the spirit of adventure that a National Park should seek to foster. We have jumped for years off of the cliffs in Moab, Utah on land overseen by the Bureau of Land Management without incident. We have jumped at spectacular locations around the world including the fjords in Norway, soaring cliffs in Italy, Switzerland, France, and Mexico, and Angel Falls in Venezuela. The natural treasures in Zion National Park rival the best of what the world has to offer. It is the charge of the National Park System to preserve, protect, and share, these treasures. To ban BASE jumping would be to fail in this charge by keeping a group of the most adventurous citizens from enjoying in their way the best of what this country has to offer. To ban BASE jumping while allowing higher impact activities such as climbing, camping, and biking is both unfair and illogical. Remove the ban and let us enjoy our Park.

pope Jun 19, 2007, 8:39 PM

Re: [gweeks] Chance to comment on BASE jumping in Zion ends June 29

In reply to:

without incident

Nice letter, but I wouldn't have chosen THAT phrase with regards to Moab.

Not only is it misleading and untrue, but the issue at hand shouldn't even BE whether or not we can get hurt or die BASE jumping in the park. ANYONE can do that--and I imagine that the statistics would even out when spread between ALL of the park's activities (at least for permitted jumping) over time.
The issue is fair use and impact on the environment (no pun intended). I for one think that the rangers in Zion are among the most fair-minded, progressive thinking rangers in the entire NPS organization, and hope they see that BASE jumping is only a crime in small, scared minds.
pope

Ghetto Jun 19, 2007, 10:25 PM

Re: [pope] Chance to comment on BASE jumping in Zion ends June 29

I also started writing a comment citing the legal base sites across the rest of the world, until suddenly I felt like a whining little kid tugging at my mommy's skirt, squealing "But Billy and Tommy's moms let them BASE jump! Why can't I? PLEEEEEEEASE"

A slightly different approach:

In reply to:

I am writing to respectfully encourage those involved in this planning process to reconsider their stance on recreational parachuting activities in Zion National Park.

In these days of dwindling park funding and decreasing attendance suffered by National Parks across the nation, new avenues must be explored in order to restore public interest in our nation's natural wonders.

The steadily rising participation in such outdoor adventure sports as rock climbing, trail running, and whitewater rafting indicates that interest in outdoor activities is not declining in America's youth; it is merely shifting to accommodate an ever-growing thirst for challenge and stimulation in our generation's routine-filled lives.

Reclassifying BASE Jumping as an appropriate-use activity in Zion National Park would be a tremendous step forward in the Park Service's continuing efforts to regain its relevancy to the changing tastes of current and future generations of outdoor enthusiasts.

The careful and calculated introduction of lesser-known, low-impact activities such as BASE Jumping can collectively work to bring our Park system's offering of recreational opportunities back in line with the evolving interests of its visitors.

As one of many adventurers, young and old, that share a passion for the opportunities that our Parks can provide, I kindly ask that our requests be heard.

TomDancs Jun 19, 2007, 10:51 PM

Re: [ChrisMcNamara] Chance to comment on BASE jumping in Zion ends June 29

Chris,

Thank you for posting that! There is a similar effort going on with Yosemite. So far the effort has yielded little, but a respectful email bombardment requesting that BASE Jumping be at a minimum included in the park planning process would be helpful. Anyone willing to write please use the following address and subject:

yose_superintendent@nps.gov

Subject: Attention Kevin Cann (Please Include BASE Jumping in the Park Planning Process)

Regards,

Tom Dancs

gweeks Jun 20, 2007, 5:36 AM

Re: [pope] Chance to comment on BASE jumping in Zion ends June 29

In reply to:

In reply to:

without incident

Nice letter, but I wouldn't have chosen THAT phrase with regards to Moab.

Yeah, I guess I could have worded that more carefully. I didn't mean without death or injury. Those are part of any outdoor sport. I meant without an incident which harms the natural resources. I was thinking about the flatbed incident that contributed to the National Park ban in the first place. Most of the BASE jumpers I've met in my time have been pretty environmentally conscious.

base428 Bridge Day Organizer Jun 20, 2007, 6:03 AM

Re: [TomDancs] Chance to comment on BASE jumping in Zion ends June 29

A few years ago, when some of us where naive enough to work with the ABP, we sent letters to all viable National Parks. The letters requested that parachuting be part of the next park planning process. I haven't heard either way if any parks have addressed BASE jumping, which has been made somewhat easier by the 2006 NPS Management Policies.

At New River for Bridge Day, I obtain a special use permit each year. This year, it's costing me $2500 for six hours of jumping (5 rangers at $40/hr for 12 hours + $100 application fee). I'm not sure how they arrived at 12 hours per ranger, but I'm going to ask them soon. Since the New River rangers have failed to address parachuting in their park planning process, despite a written request, they are still issuing my permit under the 10-year director's waiver (per 2001 NPS Management Policies).

Conclusion: You need to get the park to determine that parachuting is an appropriate park activity. Then you can apply for a permit to jump. Sounds easy, but there are several hoops to jump through. In my opinion, they're always going to say no to us, so more drastic measures are needed (mass packing protests, lawsuits, etc.)

Either way, continue the fight.

8.2.2.7 Parachuting
Parachuting (or BASE jumping), whether from an aircraft,
structure, or natural feature, is generally prohibited by
36 CFR 2.17(a)(3). However, if determined through a park
planning process to be an appropriate activity, it may be
allowed pursuant to the terms and conditions of a permit.
(See Appropriate Use 8.1.1)

meekerboy Jun 20, 2007, 6:33 AM

Re: [base428] Chance to comment on BASE jumping in Zion ends June 29

FYI: I just used the online forum.

diveout Jun 20, 2007, 10:42 PM

Re: [meekerboy] Chance to comment on BASE jumping in Zion ends June 29

will post copy of certified letter sent via usps soon...

leroydb Jun 25, 2007, 3:20 PM

Re: [ChrisMcNamara] Chance to comment on BASE jumping in Zion ends June 29

This is the response I recieved:

In reply to:

Mr. XXXXXXX:

Thank you for your comments on parachuting. Your comments refer to Zion
National Park, while they may have been intended for Yosemite.

Yosemite planning occurs through the Planning Office, to which your
comments have been forwarded to them.

Please feel encouraged to contact Linda Dahl - our chief of planning -
to learn how you can participate. Linda can be reached at:
linda_dahl@nps.gov.

Charles Cuvelier, Deputy Chief Ranger
Yosemite National Park
(209) 372-0520
(209) 770-6345 cell/voice
(209) 372-0210 fax

dmcoco84 Jun 25, 2007, 3:29 PM

Re: [base428] Chance to comment on BASE jumping in Zion ends June 29

In reply to:

Conclusion: You need to get the park to determine that parachuting is an appropriate park activity. Then you can apply for a permit to jump. Sounds easy, but there are several hoops to jump through. In my opinion, they're always going to say no to us, so more drastic measures are needed (mass packing protests, lawsuits, etc.)

Has the class action lawsuit approach ever been attempted? Lets just fucking everyone sue the shit out of the NPS. Tongue

Tongue

May take a few years but if we can get it to a State or Federal Supreme Court some progress may be made. A discrimination lawsuit.

Coco

TomDancs Jun 26, 2007, 11:57 AM

Re: [dmcoco84] Chance to comment on BASE jumping in Zion ends June 29

.

leroydb Jun 26, 2007, 2:29 PM

Re: [TomDancs] Chance to comment on BASE jumping in Zion ends June 29

Thats the prob with the US... everyone wants to Sue... shakes head

DrewEckhardt Jun 26, 2007, 5:44 PM

Re: [leroydb] Chance to comment on BASE jumping in Zion ends June 29

In reply to:

Thats the prob with the US... everyone wants to Sue... shakes head

Hiring one lawyer is a lot less expensive than buying the relevant Senate and House commitee members.

Istvan Jun 26, 2007, 9:00 PM

Re: [leroydb] Chance to comment on BASE jumping in Zion ends June 29

In reply to:

Thats the prob with the US... everyone wants to Sue... shakes head

I guess you've never met Sue, then.

dmcoco84 Jun 27, 2007, 3:22 AM

Re: [leroydb] Chance to comment on BASE jumping in Zion ends June 29

In reply to:

Thats the prob with the US... everyone wants to Sue... shakes head

Well, asking them nicely sure hasn't worked so far Le Roy. Legal action might be necessary. The type of “sue happy” judicial abuse you speak of is similar to the jackass who sued for 54 million for a pair of lost pants.

Suing a government agency over the discrimination in issuance of special use permits is something that may be necessary.

Coco

leroydb Jun 27, 2007, 4:15 AM

Re: [dmcoco84] Chance to comment on BASE jumping in Zion ends June 29

point made

gweeks Jun 27, 2007, 6:14 AM

Re: [leroydb] Chance to comment on BASE jumping in Zion ends June 29

Jet Ski, ski mobile and 4 wheel enthusiasts and trade associations have all sued for National Park access with varying degrees of success, so maybe a lawsuit would have potential.

leroydb Jun 28, 2007, 2:49 PM

Re: [ChrisMcNamara] Chance to comment on BASE jumping in Zion ends June 29

further coorespondance:

azdiver Jun 28, 2007, 5:11 PM

Re: [dmcoco84] Chance to comment on BASE jumping in Zion ends June 29

there would be a better chance if an organized group was to file a lawsuit, but i think there would be a better chance for change if more of the parachuting community was to collaborate together

diveout Jun 28, 2007, 9:36 PM

Re: [azdiver] Chance to comment on BASE jumping in Zion ends June 29

My letter and special use permit for Zion are en route...

I sent a copy to the Zion mgmt plan as well. My point was that we CAN leave no trace and jump with appropriate planning an management of our activities. And that the National Park Serive is OUR service...MY service (American Tax Payer)

HydroGuy Jun 28, 2007, 11:26 PM

Re: [leroydb] Chance to comment on BASE jumping in Zion ends June 29

Dear Mrs. Dahl-

There is also no specific mention of bird watching, sun bathing, botanical photography, or family photographs in the Yosemite area plan.

Are all of these arrestable offenses?

HydroGuy Jun 28, 2007, 11:38 PM

Re: [HydroGuy] Chance to comment on BASE jumping in Zion ends June 29

The congressman in my district has a link on his homepage to a "help with government agencies" site. Here is his link: http://campbell.house.gov/html/assistance.cfm

You have to fill out a form and he will do an inquiry on your behalf. I imagine others in congress etc have similiar setups. Here is a link to the US House of Rep. http://www.house.gov/ On the top left corner of the page is a search by zip feature to find out who your local Congressman is in case you're fucking lazy and don't vote or pay attention to anything...

I will be drafting a letter to Mr. Campbell tomorrow asking him to comment on BASE in Zion and other parks in the NPS system.

ChrisMcNamara Jul 17, 2007, 5:59 PM

Re: [ChrisMcNamara] Chance to comment on BASE jumping in Zion ends June 29

the NPS just extended the comment period to July 29

http://www.nps.gov/...lable-for-review.htm