Basejumper.com - archive

Check the Snekor, is made by Loic and Zun and it has a cool toogles system...(You have access to the toggles right after the pull)
http://shop.flyyourbody.com/...amp;cHash=6cf9ff9f34

(You have access to the toggles right after the pull)

I think a lot of wingsuit pilots can appreciate this one..

First it says:

designed for terminal velocity jumps

but then:

This system has been tested for 3 years by Loïc JEAN-ALBERT on all type of base jumps.

so terminal only or not?

The rig can be used for sub terminal and slider off/down jumps. However, the control lines should not be routed outside the rings (at the time I asked he had not tested this and was not confident the brake setting would hold), it is therefor important to use a tailgate for these jumps.

Also, you can put the toggles on the risers if you would prefer this.

I remember asking Loic about it after I saw it in the Soul Flyers 2 video. At that point, he wasn't sure they were ever going to sell them. I'm glad to see they are.

I really like the pin cover flap system on the rig I saw on the SF2 video, which I'm assuming is the same on this rig.

Regarding the toggle system, I think it's going to be very good for those people who prefer toggles to avoid objects at close range, and I know I've seen CRW rigs built like that. I'm not so sure they're going to be great for wingsuits, because of aerodynamic issues. Does anyone know if it's possible to change the configuration (i.e. just cut away the "chest toggle" risers and put in standard risers)?

Wow, did you notice the prices is 900 Euros? That's US $1200, which makes this around 50% more expensive than everything else on the market in the USA, and that's before shipping. Perigees are priced at $810 for the complete system, and so are DPs, with Gargoyles even cheaper ($750). Even the specialized Razor and Helium are listing at $860 for complete systems.

that's including french VAT. If you buy it from abroad you can take the VAT-less price.. Still quite expensive with a strong €, but almost 20% less.

While I realize the practice of routing the control lines inside the rings is growing in popularity, I believe it is a bad practice. I've seen two tailgated line overs, and have heard about several more. I'd hate to be the guy who had the bad luck to be the 1 in 10000 (or whatever it is), come up with a line over with the control lines in the rings, and be unable to clear it.

There is always the "What line Over?" toggles option... (you might be able to put them on this rig, I'm not sure)

Actually, maybe if you put the toggles on the risers you can route the control lines outside the rings, someone ask Loïc!

uh, why?

Another detail: It has no release system, only direct risers. I also never understood the reason for a release mechanism, you don't have a reserve... The reserve of your skydive rig also doesn't have a release system...

i agree. I see why its there for water and un-tangling, canopy change etc, but i dont like it. I think that it should be a L-bar to connect a 3ring if needed for a jump, otherwise it should be sewn in or L-bared in.


but about that rig, i like it, it looks cool. the toggles could be a bit more aerodynamic, but that will come.

if you ever find yourself jammed up in a tree, powerlines or getting towed down a river... you'll understand.

again, if you're scared 3rings will fail for some reason... slink the rings together.

I've used my cutaway on numerous occasions. It's really handy for getting out of trees (used it twice for that), for evading police pursuit (used it once for that), and for preventing drowning in the event of a water landing (used it 10 or 12 times for that).

It's also very handy when switching canopies between rigs (used it for that more times than I can count).


edit to add: I've also retired risers before retiring the container they originally came attached to. If those were sewn in risers, I'd be stuck throwing away the entire container, which wouldn't be my first preference. A new set of risers is much cheaper than a whole new container.

Mostly laziness, I think. 99% of the people I see doing it are just doing it because they can't be bothered to re-route the control lines.

In terms of real technical reasons? Here's some I've heard (note that none of them are things I agree with, just what I've heard other people say--personally I'm still doing the boring, old fashioned line re-routing).

1) Long canopy flights after slider off jumps. One of the first people doing this was JFH, who told me he like to be able to release his toggles during the long canopy flight on one of his regular slider off jumps.

2) Minimize rigging errors: I've heard people say that they felt that not re-routing the lines reduced the chances of a rigging error by reducing the amount of rigging.

3) Make the canopy fly the same all the time.

I'm sure there are others, too.

flying w stearing lines outside of the ring is way different to the low experience jumpers than flying the standard conventional mode.
combination: low experience, tight landing area and stearing lines outside has greater chance to end w broken legs or so than any line over.
therefore my vote goes to keep the stearing lines in the ring and use tailgate.

Very nice rig. Great idea on the toggles for WS jumps! Though I'd rather just see this toggle idea on a WS-X. The WS-X seems a bit flatter and looks a little sturdier than this one (hard to tell from pics).

I wouldn't buy it as I can't choose from enough different colors.

totally unneccessary

just stick the toggle stubs back into the keepers on the risers and mate your velcro

if this doesn't hold, you have shitty risers/toggles and/or need to replace your velcro

if you don't have the manual dexterity to do that quickly and cleanly, mash the keypad twice..


YES, I'm being serious.

are you being serious?

If your rig doesn't match your purse, then you're, like, a nobody.

This is a technique I've never dared practicing, because I could never really feel the strength the lines were pulling on my arms, when flying in line-mod.
Very seriously, do you think a good velcro will be strong enough to keep the break lines attached?
Even in the case of a wind perturbation (don't know the english term ~ wind shaking...) ?
Thanks for replying seriously (Though I could land my canopy on the risers, I'm not longing for it)

980 has a point, velcro is really strong when used for a parallel force. but i wouldnt do it. it just scares me.

i route lines through rings if its a jump where i will break something if i lose a toggle. especialy on my smaller rig.

Gotta say I disagree with that theory though. Wing loading and proper training and pratice is the way to solve that issue.

OK, firstly, I apologize for these pics not being in focus, but my camera lens is focused and taped for tandem video, so you get what you get when shooting this close inside.

here's the link

The first setup is just the toggle mated to the velcro and pulled at what I felt the correct angle would be to simulate real flying.

The riser and toggle has about 150 jumps with no velcro replacement on them. They are Paratech risers and toggles.

The first setup released at 26lbs, which needed to be applied for 5-10 seconds continuously to achieve release, during which time the velcro shearing is audible.


The second setup is what I was suggesting.
The toggle stub is in the keeper loop on the riser and that is what is taking a lot of the force now.

This setup released at 38lbs which had to be applied continuously for 8-12 seconds with audible velcro shearing and after the velcro sheared completely, the cloth stub still took about 2 seconds to bend back on itself far enough to be pulled out.

I don't see there being 38lbs of force on a single brakeline during canopy flight with no toggle input.

Especially on a canopy ride where you have such a long flight after a slider down/off deployment that you want to fly without holding onto the toggles.

For extra security and peace of mind, you can grab your rear risers around the toggle stub keeper loop while steering on the rear risers.

If you have any doubts please do these ground tests yourself followed by a test skydive into a large forgiving landing area before trying this on a BASE jump.

Then there are those times where an open butterfly clamp on some coax behind you snags your bridle and pulls both your pins while your 300' up a tower in 15mph winds. It's pretty convenient to be able to cutaway instead of being pulled out of the tower and spiraling in under a lineover

Yes, another solution is to be more careful... but sometimes something stupid might happen anyway.

oh, ghetto. you need to stop being so clumsy.



at the GFG 2005 there was a guy doing a rollover out of the tram, we were all glad he had a cutaway.

of course, it was kinda stupid to be doing a rollover out of a tram in 15mph winds, no?

3 years on and to my knowledge no other manufacturer is offering a similar toggle system. Is there any reason for this? to me it seems like a great idea for low openings and off headings on wing suit jumps, so i would have thought that the idea would have caught on more. The only reason i wouldn't buy one is because there is no cutaway system. any thoughts?

anyone have pics, none of the links are working anymore 9/30/2010

http://www.flyyourbody.com/...p/base-jump-rig.html

Thanks! ....weird looking LOL, would be interested in seeing one in person, interesting idea

New wingsuits that allow you to grab regular toggles on opening offer a much cleaner solution and make this design obsolete.

which new wingsuits allow this?

http://www.tonywingsuits.com/xbird.html

do the phoenix-fly suits offer this?

no, at least not yet

Yes, new Venom will. The prototype i tried worked very well.

The sleeve with flexible geometry requires lifting of knees up to the chest to allow full reach, similar to other 'systems' that have a loose fitting arm.

In case of more violent canopy spins, or winter clothing not allowing for practical use of the sleeve, there is still a functional cutaway system as well.