Basejumper.com - archive

 

As much as I think Cornishe is a Gay ass homo he does have a point here. I still think BASE should be kept on a dL as much as possible

KeVo

I dunno, I'd be pretty uncomfortable with someone filming my FJC.


Maybe, but my guess is an equal or greater number of sites would get closed.


Count on it. Is that good or bad? Could be either... I was a whuffo who decided that BASE was worth pursuing, but so far the reaction has been almost entirely positive.

it just goes to show that BASE is becoming 'just another sport'.

it is bad for the Old timers that want BASE to be a secret forever, and it is bad for the fact that it will show that anyone is capable of doing a base jump.

there are a million reasons it is good or bad.


but what the hell are you/we going to do about it?

Hopeless....

Is this the 8 day long free course that is supposed to cover all aspects of BASE jumping including site evaluation and access for all types of objects? If so, then it seems pretty bad to me. Hopefully the cameras don't have access to all that. If it's the "here's what you have to do not to die at the bridge" course then it's not as bad.

I guess I have to see the end result before I form an opinion.

BTW I googled weaksoss and all I came up with was online chess crap, so wtf does that mean?

yep.

the more public BASE jumping becomes, the more likely a politician will grandstand the issue. try to get elected by "protecting" the public. see the Jeb/NYC case (or smoking, or drunk driving, or...)

few understand why we jump. a good chunk of the public fears what they don't understand.

hopefully I'm wrong and this effort makes a positive impact.

Well if its a course run by Tom A at least they will get to see how many people get hurt base jumping.
Ryan

I am not in understanding of your post. please elaborate.
take care,
space

He might be mentioning memorialday last year when one (or more?) of his students went off the other other side of the bridge and flew into the rocks?

A writer for ESPN.com contacted me over a year ago with a request to cover a BASE training course. The writer had previously covered parachuting events, and had written a book titled Birdmen, Batmen, and Skyflyers: Wingsuits and the Pioneers Who Flew in Them, Fell in Them, and Perfected Them. Prior to responding to his request, I contacted multiple jumpers who’d had previous contact with the writer, primarily in relation to his previous articles and book, to ask about his general approach and their feeling about his final product. I also read his book, and several of his articles, to form my own opinions about (a) the quality of his work, and (b) the likelihood that it would present BASE in a manner I was comfortable with.

The type of story being written is called an e-ticket, and is part of the ESPN.com website. Examples of other e-ticket stories can be found here.

I formed a generally favorable impression of the writer and the project based on (a) my review of the writer’s work, (b) my conversations with other jumpers who knew him, and (c) the general type of story, particularly that the written story would be the leading component, with the video attached as additional material. I believe that this format and writer were likely to lead to a coverage of BASE which was both in-depth and fair, and not likely to focus solely on the flashy video-friendly aspects of BASE which are often the primary lead for most media coverage.


I contacted several other jumpers (at least one of whom has posted in this thread), to ask them their opinions, and in more than one case followed up with additional discussions about media coverage generally and this project specifically.



I decided that I was interested in pursuing this project, and that I thought it could benefit BASE because:

In general, the media coverage I see of BASE tends to focus on a single jumper or jump, and tends to emphasize the more dramatic aspects of BASE. It almost never covers (a) “average” BASE jumpers, either singly or in groups, (b) previous experience or training to reach the stage of beginning BASE (or making advanced BASE jumps), or (c) BASE training, especially not presenting it as a methodical approach to minimizing risk as one progresses into the sport.

As a result, the average person who views a media presentation of BASE jumping tends to develop a skewed view of BASE, and of the people who participate in it, and of the preparation required. Generally, this results in prospective new participants who (a) dramatically underestimate the level of preparation required, (b) have no comprehension of the risks involved, and (c) do not have any clear idea what sort of logical, structured progression could be followed to minimize risks.

I wanted to convey two primary messages:

1) That BASE jumpers are not social misfits, or wild extremists, but rather that many are relatively normal, productive members of society who have simply selected a minority form of personal recreation they find interesting and satisfying.

2) That BASE jumping requires adequate preparation, and that a structured, methodical approach, to minimize risk while maximizing learning is both desirable and accepted.

I emphasized these points repeatedly to the writer, and to the video interviewer, during the course.



I have observed many BASE jumpers who have an absolute repugnance for media coverage and completely refuse to interact with the press. While I find this laudable, and tend to believe that if we all followed this course, BASE as a whole would be better off, I think that the real world situation may call for a different approach.

No matter if I, personally, or any other particular jumper, refuse to interact with the media, there are quite clearly many jumpers who are eager to do so. Few of these jumpers share my particular views of BASE, or my desires for its future direction.

Given this situation, I have two choices:

1) Have no contact with the media, and accept that the public perception of BASE will be formed by others, in the manner they prefer, for the ends they wish, or;

2) Be willing to engage in contact with the media, and try to act as a spokesman to present BASE in a manner that I am more comfortable with, in line with my personal views of BASE.

It’s a dilemma, because I’m clearly having to choose between two options that will have less than optimal results in my view (my personal optimal result would be that there was no media coverage of BASE whatsoever, but that’s not something that’s possible in the real world).




Ether:

Every student in the course was given the opportunity to veto the media project. It was clear to everyone involved, on all sides, from the outset, that any student could do that, and also that any student could ask for any media personnel to leave at any time. This was all discussed at some length several months before the course.



Gweeks:

The course is 7 days long, and site access methodology is not part of the curriculum. A complete course syllabus can be found here. The curriculum is a bit ambitious, especially for the Spring course (when wind conditions are usually worse than in the Fall), so some material inevitably doesn’t get covered before the end.



WorldsoCold:

I am. I did have some assistance from another instructor for portions of this course, but all the teaching methodology and curriculum, as well as the initial decision to allow media coverage, was mine.


Space/HN1:


I extensively discuss the risks of BASE jumping in my initial lecture, and we also review accident footage as a standard part of the curriculum.

The media was asked not to record anything at least twice during those discussions, by both myself and a student, and those portions of the discussions were not covered. No recording was done during review of accident footage.


For general information:

I know of at least 2 previous occasions when BASE training courses were covered in popular media, including MTV coverage of another FJC at this object.

I neither asked for, nor received, any compensation for my participation in this project.

nice post explaining your views and goals regarding this project.


I realize the finished piece does not yet exist, BUT has the ESPN crew behaved as expected? have they said/done things that made you question your decision? are you more or less hopeful?

if the piece fairly captures the preparation involved, the planning, the training, etc., it might be a useful FJC pre-requisite.

Kind of an important typo .

Kris.

Tom, I'm sure your intentions are good but I really hope you have something like a veto or last word before they air it.

Actually, I do, in a way. Neither myself nor any of the students have signed any releases yet, meaning that they can't legally use footage of us (the written story can proceed without those things). I will ask to see the edited video segment prior to signing such a release.

Thanks, I fixed that.

I must have read the label on my old Mojo tail pocket one too many times.

Yes. The crew was actually very respectful, had no problems turning things off whenever I or a student asked, and was actually (I know it's hard to believe) pretty unobtrusive during the course. Since half of the guys with camera gear (2 of 4) were experienced BASE jumpers, they were actually fairly in tune with what we were doing.

Remember, though, that the camera guys don't control the final presentation--the writer of the segment and the producer of the video do that. I feel very good about the writer. The producer I had significantly less interaction with, but I didn't get any alarm bells (and, as noted, I've still got some legal rights that I haven't surrendered yet, there, which they'll need before they air footage of myself or the students).

Thanks Tom. I look forward to you mass-educating the general public via ESPN.

Tom, if you want people to like you, there might be other ways than to mass-produce new jumpers who think you're cool. Maybe try a BASE jump yourself. It doesn't inspire confidence in their teacher when you flick people off, and and then the instructor walks back from the bridge. I'm sure you're intentions are good, and I have to say that I like your FJC the best. However, maybe we need to take a look at who is doing FJCs, and what they are doing it for. If there are several people/groups who are relying on teaching courses for a living, maybe we need to decide if we collectively feel that is good for BASE tomorrow.

Thanks for helping to make BASE a household word!

Thanks for helping to make BASE a household word!

I do not believe that the number of jumps the instructor makes is relevant to the student's learning experience during a course.

By not jumping, I can quite often make it possible for the students to make more jumps. My students are using multiple rigs (both to develop more currency by making more jumps, and to force them to familiarize themselves with multiple systems from various manufacturers). If I can enhance their learning experience (primarily by helping them make more jumps in a learning progression during the course), I will do so. Shuttling cars, packing additional rigs, or even running to get breakfast while students are hiking out can save precious time, allowing students to make far more jumps (and learn correspondingly more) while they are here.

During this course, I did jump a few times, and I also walked off after handing some component of my own gear over for student use (my helmet, my rig, etc) at the exit point. (Note that I always have a rig--or another instructor wearing one--at the exit, in the event of an accident or another situation requiring help in the landing area).

Living in Twin Falls, I can jump this bridge virtually any day of the year. My students can only do that during their limited time here. It would be illogical, from a training standpoint, for me to reduce the number of jumps they make in order to make more jumps while they are here.

One other thing that I can teach (by example) to students who see me walk off, is that it's not mandatory to make any specific BASE jump. I feel this is an important lesson for everyone, and if I can help impart it to my students by example, that provides additional value to their training.



If I was primarily interested in making money, I would have charged the students for this course.

No, you didn't charge them. Instead you got something of much more value. Attention!

And Tom, I find it very trusting of ESPN, that they would invest thousands of dollars in several professional videographers, writers, interviewers, etc., for a week, and not have anyone sign a release. Just so you can "approve" of the finished product before release. Of course, everyone trusts you though, right?...

An opportunity to show structured
BASE training might help convince some
people it is better to start with assistance
than just winging it.

I read "Birdmen, Batmen, and Skyflyers".
It seemed well researched and written.

What the fuck is your point? Are you jealous of the attention or what? Spit it out dude. If you want to diss Tom. Then do it in a respectable and logical manner please. You are sounding like a whining baby at the moment.
Take care,
space

It sounds like you are calling me a liar. I don't really have any response to that other than to say that I'm not.

No one signed any releases during this project. This wasn't as a result of any specific negotiation or plan--more likely it was an oversight on the part of the producer. Nonetheless I'm willing to take advantage of it if necessary.

interesting allegation.
got any facts to back it up this apparent motivation?

oh and the incredibly humorous aspect of this...
you claim Tom seeks attention.
so what do you do?
you reward him with what? ATTENTION! (DOH!)

if you do not respect Tom, why would you give him what he wants? (DOH!)

at least if you provide facts, you might rob Tom of the sympathy vote. (sympathy your rumor mongering generates).

(you might want to stop using Homer Simpson as a role model )

 
Tom A’s FJC on national tv… unbelievable.

Last year I took Miles D’s FJC and was very excited (as a noob) to share some of the footage I got from the course. So, I edited a little video, uploaded it on youtube (I know, I’m lame) and posted a link in an appropriate thread about Miles.

I felt, at the time, there was nothing wrong with doing this and there could be no possible negative affects with sharing my experience.

Tom A. sent me several private messages questioning my motives in publishing this material and gave me his strong opinion why this wasn’t good for the sport. I thought long and hard about his reasons and after several weeks decided to leave the link and the video, stand as is.

I did agree with him on a lot of his points and realize if every student posted “their” video, it wouldn’t be a good thing. BUT, I also felt like there was a lot of hypocrisy on his part for obvious reasons.

Tom, you should give this some serious thought and then answer this question. Not for me, or anyone else, because I already know the answer. Dig deep and be honest with yourself when answering…

Would you have made a big deal about my video if it was YOUR FJC?

 

What makes you think that Tom's goal in life is to make people like him?




He's doing his job. Him jumping after the students would just complicate things. The ONLY thing the instructor should be paying attention to is the safety and education of the students, in that order.

[disclaimer: Tom's effort might blow up. we will not know until we see the finished product. and I'm less than excited about it...]

do you not see a qualitative difference between ESPN's abilities and yours?

do you not see that Tom has a more developed sense of what is appropriate and how things should be handled? (his experience ought to count for something).

if either are the case, it seems a case of sour grapes. of you thinking you (a newbie) have the right to run with the big dogs and being rebuffed. (can anyone say 100 jump wonder?)

or

do you realize you can claim victory? heck, maybe YOU educated Tom! he's just following YOUR lead! you showed him he was wrong and is playing catch-up with you!

I’m not trying to run with the big dogs. I’ve made it very clear that I am, and will be, a noob for many years. My video is a bit cheesy and very low quality, not even close to being in the same league as most videographer’s at the dz’s, much less ESPN. You have missed my point, which is…

Tom’s hypocrisy!

I could be standing at an exit point. a more experienced jumper advises me to walk down, but then jumps themselves. I'd rather say "thank you Milles." than call Miles a hypocrite!

situations differ. what might be appropriate for some is not appropriate for others. you seem to think your effort/abilities are the same as Tom's. if so, your charge is valid. but you say you are NOT trying to run with the big dogs?!? which one is it?

Tom has chosen a high risk game. let's see if he can pull it off before being harsh.

Any positive spin that can be put on BASE is good nowadays. Tom is good at positive spin and the public needs to see how serious some of the training is. This is not the kind of coverage that hurts us. So long as the "slant" of the story is positive, it's great. Good Luck Tom.
Rick

Not even close! You’re all over the board with your arguments; I’m not talking about effort or abilities, but one specific thing.

Tom gave me a handful of reasons why “we” should NEVER post video about our sport. I’m just questioning his recent actions, which seems like a HUGE contradiction to our correspondence last year.

I guess you would have had to read his messages to see where I’m coming from, but I would never disclose private info, sorry.

Tom, I have nothing against you personally. Just wondering why/how your views changed since last year. C Ya!

I was one of the students on Tom's course, from what I saw this article will be a positive thing for BASE and Tom is dead right there are plenty of videos out there giving BASE a bad name and making jumpers look irresponsible.

I spoke to the writer and the film crew quite often and I believe the piece will be not only positive but portray jumpers as responsible human beings. This can only help for legal access issues etc

I'm wondering if all the people so opposed to
mediatisation of BASE (which i understand) ever think
that one day we could have good mediatisation,
in the sense that it would actually help base and not
go against ?
Seems that Tom took all the precautions possible to
make it a good thing, wait and see but don't judge
without knowing !

therein lies my confusion. it leaves me guessing and apparently, I'm not close... that is why I can't understand your view. that is why your opinion appears to lack any basis.

it's honorable to keep things shared in a PM private.

but why then not ask Tom in a PM? why ask in a public forum and then keep key information private? isn't that just inviting confusion and mis-interpretation?

I respect the efforts of many to improve BASE jumping and the raw talent of others. people like Rick & Joy, Jason, NickDG, Jason, Miles, Jimmy/Marta/Todd, etc. all have areas of expertise that I would be well advised to follow. in their area of expertise, I choose to give them the benefit of doubt. I may not know enough to understand their rational. (just as I don't understand yours.)

Wow...ESPN should mos. def. quote from this thread

 


He's doing his job. Him jumping after the students would just complicate things. The ONLY thing the instructor should be paying attention to is the safety and education of the students, in that order.



Tom might have his reasons for walking off.. My FJC instructor jumped after the students every time. I watched very closely every time to see a properly executed BASE jump was made. It really helped me realize some of my mistakes and how a pro does it. Its correct and more important a SAFE example for me to follow.

Other than that I have to agree with the few other brave souls on the forum who disagree with an FJC on ESPN regardless of who is the instructor. Maybe by next time this year their can be a long line of FJC prospects to throw off the bridge... then the year after a bunch of mass produced students standing on top of objects all over the world. Then.......... what is the point of involving the media? I have always believed BASE should be on the dl. BASE is not for everyone..... though everyone does seem to watch ESPN.
Maybe some have forgotten how many illegal jumps are made in this world. Less BASE in the media = less paranoia from security at objects.
Dan

Ammon,

I’d love to talk with you about this in person. I sent you my phone number last night, if you’re willing to chat. Alternately, drop me a line with your phone number and a good time, and I’ll call you.

An even better way to discuss this would be in person, so I’d like to re-extend my offer from several months ago. My next FJC is scheduled for June 22-25. I’d love to have you come out and sit through it.



To generally respond to your accusations of hypocrisy on my part:

Please re-read this part of my initial post in this thread:


Now consider this scenario, and think about where you (and your actions) might fit into my motivations.

A leading member of the big wall climbing community, at the top of his game, wants to try something new. He meets a BASE jumper who offers to chuck him off a bridge with a parachute. He assures the climber that no previous experience or training is necessary.

The climber agrees, and has a great time. Everything goes right, and he figures he wants to try some more. His new friend refers him to another jumper who can teach him all about BASE jumping.

But the climber is no dummy. He’s familiar with the internet, and knows that there are probably lots of sides to every story. He hops on Google, reads up on BASE jumping, and tries to meet some other jumpers. He finds a guy who builds some of the gear the jumpers are using. The gear builder seems much more cautious than the first BASE jumper he met, and advises him to make some skydives out of an airplane before diving into BASE jumping.

The climber thinks about it, talks to more people, reads some more stuff, and decides to head out to the nearest dropzone to learn to skydive. He does that fairly well, but he’s pretty impatient to get back to what he’s really interested in—the BASE jumping. When he has around 40 skydives, he contacts the friend he was referred to and heads back out to learn all about BASE jumping.

This particular BASE instructor doesn’t believe that background checks are necessary, and hates it when other jumping instructors get all stingy. He just wants to share the love, and he’d love to teach anyone to BASE jump.

The climber meets up with his new instructor, they spend a great couple of days together, and the climber makes several jumps off the bridge.

Energized and excited, he edits up a video of his experience, and throws it up on the internet, showing it to all of his climbing friends. This, understandably, gets them all pumped about BASE jumping, and they want to start.

Having learned from their role model, this new group of climbers heads out to the dropzone before making their first BASE jumps. They work hard, and 20 or 30 skydives later, they all feel that they’re ready to head out to the bridge. The original climber takes them out and throws them off. Everyone heads home energized to start into this new game they’ve found.

One of the new climbers wants to do more BASE jumping. He asks his friend, and gets referred to the same instructor.

He comes back out to the bridge, and he, too, has a great time. Energized and excited, he edits up a video of his weekend, and throws it up on Youtube, sending messages out to hundreds of his climbing friends, all over the world, to share the joy he’s found.


I don’t think it takes a crystal ball to see where this story is going. What do those hundreds of climbing friends do? They’ve got some great examples, from climbers they know and respect, of the path to follow. If they want to BASE jump, they can make a couple skydives (but that’s not strictly necessary), and then off they go.




What’s my reaction to this proliferation of a view of BASE, and progression into it, that I personally disagree with? Let’s look back at my initial post. I can either:

1) Do nothing, and watch this happen, or;
2) Try to present an alternative, and share it with those same people, hoping to sway them to a different path into the sport.



Ammon, when I present an alternative to your vision, it doesn’t make me a hypocrite. It makes me someone who disagrees with the path that you are actively espousing and recruiting people to follow, and is forced into a difficult choice to offer those people an alternative.

Remember that my primary goal was to offer a vision of BASE training and progression that was thoughtful, cautious, prepared, and considerate of the risks.

Understand that our previous interaction was a major component in my decision to publicly display this course. There were other factors (I’ve had similar interactions with many other people), but you were one of the big ones.

I don’t hold any animosity toward you. My offer to come to my course is sincere, and I would genuinely appreciate the chance to meet and get to know you.

A lot of people are missing a point that I made early on.

This project is primarily a written story, to be presented on ESPN.com. Check my first post for examples of other stories carried in this format.


I think that a written story (and especially one like this, which due to it's appearance on-line, as opposed to in a print publication, has no word or page limit) presents a significantly more in-depth view than a video. While that is obviously my personal bias (I find most written communication both more thoughtful and more in-depth than most video productions), it's one that I do hold, and one that has helped guide me.

I'm just glad they weren't there to film those fucking retards I almost came to blows with this morning in the hippie-homeless rainbow trailer from CA.

If Maggot feels compelled to tell some poor old tourists that those fuck-sticks weren't with him...you KNOW they're idiots.

Those morons were here to film BASE as well apparently - so if the choices are some cheese-dick Matt Hoffman wannabes, or ESPN...

Guess what fuckos...I'll take ESPN. At least they won't get the bridge shut down for letting their unleashed pit-bull scare blue haired tourists. And then shoving a camera in their face telling them it's a free country. It takes a lot to piss me off. That did.

Locals should not have to explain "Sorry ma'am, but I promise - they're NOT BASE jumpers" to the sweet old gals running the visitors center.

Someone from the BASE community invited those societal rejects. Why don't you hunt them down and bust their ass instead of Tom's? If I find out who it was, I'm going to shove a pilot chute up their ass.

Tom...see if the ESPN guys will get me a copy of the mach 3 tuck and roll I nailed. It was a training tool...yeah, that's it...a training tool.

Edit to Add - Oh, almost forgot - I'm almost sure the ESPN guys weren't tow-roping around the visitor's center on a skateboard behind a truck at about 30 MPH. Brilliant shit.

It still surprises me how many people, who've never flown a parachute, know about BASE. They don't know much, but they do know it's a bunch of retards jumping off stuff. While that may not be far from the truth, I don't have any problem with some real BASE knowledge getting out there. Who knows, maybe it'll show a few people out there we're not all hooker fuckin, coke snortin, suicidal maniacs... or maybe that's just wishful thinking.

but we... are... hooker snortin, coke fuckin, suicidal maniacs... ... ... ... aren't we? or at least... one of us...?

sssshhhhhhhtttttt... I'm trying to make us look good to the public here

Tom made a very long post simply to avoid the obvious motivations behind his hypocrisy; his grudge against Miles D. He spews on and on about it whenever he can. The hypocrisy is clear and hardly disputable. His absurd distinctions between his ESPN show and other glory hounds is completely disingenuous. His degradations of Miles D and his students are not supported by fact. His own safety record is much worse. His self righteousness is appalling IMO. Everyone wants recognition for their work. It's only natural. But when others do it its self promotion, and when he does it its for the betterment of mankind. Give me a break.

You know what's a kickass song? Hybrid Moments by The Misfits. Man...great song.

hybrid moments...that is a good song.

all of shit bullshit drives me nutts. who cares if tom a is on espn for this. i am not saying it is wrong or right. but hey, if espn was there with a camera in your face you really wouldnt mind being on tv would you? oh thats right you would ratherpost all your illegal base on youtube for everyone to see. this is a legal bridge they are filming, you tube has objects that arent as legal as the potato. so what the fuck is all the same isnt it? type BASE jumping in on youtube and see what comes up, you dont think that attracts more stupid ignorant whuffos to the sport?

alright i'm done.

by the way i do agree that abbie is a gigantic homo.

and where are your facts?
you posted numerous allegations, but no facts!
uh pot, meet kettle...

what is with the "Cult of Miles?" Miles has obvious skills and talents few possess, but his followers seem to be a bunch of mal-contents. you can identify them by their regular trashing of the moderator. they NEVER supply any facts. they just complain of ill treatment. (by now, one would expect they have collected a ton of evidence...)

every time I've met Miles, he exudes a positive energy. it's almost freakishly positive. but these posts from his cult lack any of that energy. they tend to be freakishly negative...

if I were Miles and had his skills/knowledge/abilities, I'd be downright embarrassed by these posts "supporting" me.

My opinion is mine alone. And, IMO, my post was not "freakishly negative." I think it is wrong that Tom uses his role as moderator to attack is FJC competitor. Holy conflict of interest! Other than that I think it is arrogant that Tom considers himself the arbiter of who should talk to the media. So I agree with the poster who thinks Tom is being hypocritical. Is there no validity to that opinion whatsoever? Anyway, just one mans opinion. I wouldn't let it ruin your idolatry of Tom. I realize how silly it all is but sometimes I am a hypocrite too. I will not beat this horse any longer.( I promise!) If your questions are anything but rheorical feel free to pm me. BSBD

I agree with your concept. please supply evidence to show that it applies!

again got evidence? I might agree with you!

again, got evidence?
how about my critical posts already in this thread!

feel free to PM.

hey WWarped.. you want to see some crystal clear evidence of the hypocrisy mentioned in this thread.
well here it is man:
http://www.egwingsuits.com/forum/index.php?topic=31.0

read it then you can comment on the hypocrisy. This is Utah's personal experience. If you want Miles' you just have to look for it but I guarantee you will find it because it is the utter truth. Or better yet give the man a call.

are you that lazy?

this is a public forum for all to read. if you slam someone here, you must be bold enough to provide facts there. honor dictates YOU do the work, not the readers.

to date, I've asked numerous times and have yet to be provided any information here. Miles' disciples simply hijack threads for unsupported attacks.

your link points to a different forum. before the author was banned, I PM'd him and asked him to discipline his posts. I said his ideas needed to be heard. I liked hearing from him. it became quite obvious that he would be banned because of his conduct. he needed to hold a more civilized tone.

if the author consents, I'm willing to post the PM.

Sangiro appears quite intent on hosting civilized conversations.

also, that thread does NOT apply to the ESPN crew filming recently. got anything to say on THIS topic?

or will you again dis-respect Miles' positive public image?
or will you simply tag-out to someone else?

 

I view this just as a high-risk jump.

in general, it should NOT be done.

the only way to contemplate it is after much study and preparation. even then, the odds remain iffy.

I feel BASE videos on the internet do NOT paint a well balanced portrait. as such, I think they harm more than help. this effort is an attempt to balance that portrait. I wish it well, and would not dare do it.

Hairy little hand grenade-throwin Troll...

[teabag]

Shut up and get back to work; you're not done yet!

Interesting statement from someone who is either owner/part owner or employed by a company that is supportive of, and provides links to, training courses for "more wuffos that want to base jump". Three out of eight sites on the Splatula links page are labeled as BASE FJC providers.

 

So what did you mean by "wuffos that want to base jump"? Your statement was in response to the film documentation and airing of a FJC that requires a minimum of 150 jumps to qualify for admission. Are the FJC's that you promote different? How so?

Regarding my stance on the issue, it's not 1983 anymore. Everybody with half a clue and a sense of adventure (a very small % of the population) knows that there is an active community of BASE jumpers. The rest of the world sees the occasional but way too frequent news blip about someone who either bounces or gets busted. What makes headlines? JA's birthday hanging from the guy wires in CA, the guy who wanted to do the ESB, Spud Head... The average wanker sees nothing but a bad image, so IMHO a show on ESPN depicting a safety-oriented, professional, FJC certainly can't hurt, and if one's goal is to open up areas like NPS, it is probably a step in the right direction.

To clarify:

This course has no hard and fast pre-requisites. Admission is competitive, which means that I take applications, then pick the ones that I think are the most qualified, and best fit for the course.


I typically receive around 30 applications for the 4 or 5 spots in the course, and historically a typical student that I accept has closer to 1000 skydives than 150. In this course there was one student who was actually right around the 150 skydive mark, but he had significant additional canopy flight experience (resulting from the fact that he has been flying hanggliders and paragliders for approximately as long as I've been alive).

why is everyone trying to beat up on Tom A?

There, fixed it for ya.

The problem isn't a good or bad representation of BASE in the media. If we, as BASE jumpers want to change it, get over the "look at me" factor that we all have, and stop posting your cranes, buildings, and towers on youtube, so that fascinated whoffos and skydivers get these wrong impressions with. Go downtown and help old ladies across the street with your rig on. Take the extra time to talk politely for 3 minutes and answer all the dumb questions that people from all over the country, when they visit the Perrine, have. They'll go back home and tell stories, show pics and videos back in whatever city they live.

We have, or had, Stunt junkies, which portrayed professional BASE jumpers as highly-trained experts, capable of doing seemingly impossible things because they have the skill to do so. And Eli is a skydiver and BASE jumper, and being the host, could keep it going in a positive light direction.

The problem that lots of BASE jumpers are having with Tom's ESPN involvement is several fold. Tom is for all practical purposes a has-been. He might be a nice guy, but he has a long history of making significant mistakes and lapses in judgment, causing himself to almost kill himself three times. He hasn't jumped in, from what I hear, four years, and his background in BASE has been widely dismissed by most as exaggerated. He might have lots of "knowledge", but as we all know, there are plenty of opinions in BASE, and Tom's "knowledge" is based on his opinions, and oftentimes, not widely accepted. Perhaps sometimes completely inaccurate. He is a very intelligent, articulate, and personable guy, who can be presented well. However, and I don't want to speak for others, rolled into Twin Falls after he quit jumping, with the intentions of becoming the "voice of BASE". He has been improving his image, and creating himself as a household name, being the only moderator on dropzone, unfairly banning opposition and applying the rules from this internet forum (lets all remember this is just the internet) differently to those who are friends or not pro-Tom. Not to question his intentions, Tom has been teaching FJCs for no cost, which would make me like him as a newbie, as opposed to spending $1200 or spending months or years chasing a crew around and putting in groundcrew time. Also, by making the free course seem to be as highly sought after as acceptance into the US Air Force Academy, he has created the illusion that Tom is the Alpha male in BASE.

There are several ways to improve the public's perception of BASE, if that is your intention. But to attempt to gain free advertising to your FJC by inviting ESPN, which as far as I know, primarily shows BASE jumpers going into buildings, dams, and generally getting seriously injured on RealTV style shows. I was trying to think if I have ever seen anything positive from them about BASE, and I have seen tons of near fatalities sensationalized on the network. If you like Tom or not, and know him well or not- his intentions are unknown to all of us. Yes, he might be doing a great job teaching all these new jumpers, and flooding the market with newbies coming back to your neighborhood, creating pro-Tom internet jumpers to solidify and/or improve his reputation or image within the BASE community. Tom does not have any control of the outcome of the segment, and if it was a written article for ESPN.com, as he claims, they wouldn't have sent out 4 videographers with the producer, writers, etc, for 8 days, and had side floating videos of the students jumps. On top of talking to one of the camera guys stating that it was for a new show premiering in October.

Tom might be a nice guy, but as he is "improving the perception" of BASE, he is also satisfying his ego and getting the TV air time that he craves. He can't jump a semi off Greenie, or jump a dirt bike from 150', so we'll just secure the Perrine FJC monopoly using an hour-long network program, encouraging non-jumpers and 100+ skydivers to get into BASE. What ever happened to having it on the dl, and earning and working for it, instead of having it advertised to you?

I simply wonder how Tom would have responded to MilesD teaching a ESPN televised FJC. Nobody could argue that Miles is a very personable, highly experienced and talented BASE jumper. And current. And he has more connections with far more powerful forces in television and marketing. He would have easily been able to coordinate, smooze the cameras, and portray BASE in the positive light. But he didn't. Nobody else did. Nobody else needed the attention, in such a huge way, to compensate for something that they once had.

What do you mean hasn't jumped in years? i think this is inaccurate. in fact i know it is. I saw him jump less than one year ago (the last time i saw him).

if you are implying that he hasent pushed the "envelope" or traveled significantly to jump, remember he has a toddler in the house and that changes your life. does that make him any less a teacher, I wouldnt think so. I know plenty of instructors in different arenas who havent pushed their personal boundries, yet maintain an excellent teaching credential.



nic

Can't jump the Perrine because of a toddler? Isn't Miles a TF local, and doesn't he have two toddlers?

And wouldn't that be a personal decision between a father and mother instead of grounds for commentary or one-uppedness between one base jumper and another?

Not knocking you... I'm the first to admit that I know neither of the jumpers in this discussion and I don't have a place to comment either way. I just don't think this is a remotely valid point to make [regardless of who is involved].

I havent been in TF for a year, but at that time i did see him jump, i think i have it on video. from that time on i cannot comment.

Not that he has to answer but why not ask:

"Tom are you current?" or "Tom, on average about how many jumps do you usually do a month?"

I can recall Tom jumping in, 2005, and 2006, and maybe in 2004 (my memory on this one is vague, but unimportant) with my own eyes. So your "four years" is wrong. And if that is a major point in your argument, well....

But Tom can defend himself, so i'm out.

nic

any thoughts on people seeking publicity for BASE other than Tom? do they "crave" attention as well?

how about the other FJC instructors who openly advertise their courses?

how about the jumper busted at the ESB (possibly rattted out by a member of the production staff documenting the jump)?

how about the other jumpers who are sponsored by business to attract attention?

do you feel as strongly against them as Tom, or is Tom somewhat special? (I'd really like to know.)

I wish they all had kept it on the dl.
all of them.
we are in agreement that this production is full of peril. we differ in that I'll wait until I see the final product before making harsh judgments.

also, jumping and teaching are distinctly different skills. look at pro football in the US. know any coaches that were once all-stars? any?

i have nothing against either Tom or Miles. just to clarify, Miles did do a fjc for television, it is currently airing on an hd sattelite station.
and really, this miles vs tom vs ? vs?.. is getting really fuckin old.Is this really all you have to contribute?

If Tom A hasn't jumped the bridge in 4 years, then who was I jumping with less than a week ago? You need to think about your harsh accusations... besides who takes someone serious with "Hoes, bitches, sluts, and beer... " as interests ?

ps. I had well over a 1000 skydives, bought my own base gear, flew from South Africa and paid for my FJC with Tom A last year. In my opinion he has only done good for our sport.

BASE 1157

wow you really seem like an idiot

can't we all just get along?

I saw Tom Aiello make many jumps at the GoFastGames(He get's invited every year), including a cool intentional cutaway with a Sorcerer. That was definitely within the last 4 years.


Caylor

Hopeless...

the way you like it?

Yup............

No, That would be way to easy!!

hey tom, i did the sickest double gainer from the top rail when your film crew was there. sucked it down low too.

i would think that after your students did their first base jump, they would be super pumped. right? wouldnt it be nice to give them a hi-5 in the landing area and tell them how good they did? i thought you learned from your instructor...watching your instructor walk off the bridge doesnt allow anyone to learn anything from you, except that you dont feel like jumping. mmmmm I-Hop! i hear they sell fruit cups there.

I'm not Tom's crew... and it wasn't that sick.

<sighs>
"One becomes a critic when one can no longer be an artist"
--Flaubert Gustave.

And then there are those people who never were, or ever will be artists... simply critics. I'm constantly amazed at the inverse relationship between experience in the sport and one's willingness to loudly criticize others.

Many new jumpers are respectful of those who have been jumping longer than they have. Some seek the wisdom of those who have survived many years in the sport because they want to know more about the history of the sport and how to learn from the mistakes others have made over the years.

However the loudest critics of the sport (and veteran jumpers) seem the be non-jumpers and new jumpers. Many (new) jumpers go through phases of jumping: the newborn careful first few jumps phase when they're appreciative of the guidance of their seniors, the growing up phase where they start taking more and more risks in order to develop their skills, the adolescent phase where they start making friends in the community, get to know others, develop online and offline popularity, and start touring the circuit, acquiring jumps, and then the teenage years, where they are the baddest ass people around, they wear their base number on their shoulder like a badge of honor, let the entire planet know that they are of the elite clan of adrenaline junkies, and post every moment of their 'ultra sick' footage on any venue that they can. Their 'non-jumping' friends often fall into the background or get tired of hearing about how 'this building is soooo jumpable'. Some never leave this stage. They make their occassion jumps, or perhaps just strut around the dropzone wearing their 'badass BASE rig' and remind skydivers how dangerous BASE is. After watching a few more additions to the fatality list these jumpers remind themselves that they're the 'good' jumpers who won't end up dying because they're so good. Then after a few close calls, they realize that they can, in fact, die in this sport. Most sober up, either from their own close calls, or when one of their truly good friends die. Some never do.

It is amazing, though, how those who have been in the sport for a number of years, lost friends, attended their funerals, had close calls themselves, and acquired numerous jumps from numerous objects, are criticized by those with far fewer years in the sport, far less experience, and far less knowledge. Those who eventually grow up, and are individuals of integrity, will look back on such comments with shame and apologize for them. (note that both components are necessary).

One can learn a lot about a person by listening to how they talk about others.

-=Raistiln

dude stop picking on Tom A he has way more base jumps then you dude

thanks for putting my ego back where it belongs.

In all seriousness, I dont think espn filming is a bad thing. I dont wear my base rig at the dz to show off either, i dont skydive as much as i used to. I think walking off the bridge after putting your students off isnt the best way to teach an fjc. it shows less involvement in the student during the most important part of the course: the jump.

i bet you a thousand "radical" dollars that if one of toms students asked him to jump with him...

he would do it.

it's a teacher/student relationship.

on a daily basis I see relationships that would not work for me, but apparently work for them. it does not matter if it is personal, work, social, etc. if Tom's students understand, I guess my opinion is NOT important.

you interact with others in ways I don't get. but so? if you and your buddies are on the same page, oh well.

(Tom's students felt cheated, that's something different.)

Excellent post!
take care,
space

 
<<One can learn a lot about a person by listening to how they talk about others.>>

I'd say at least that much of it is accurate.

Tracy, (Space)
Coming from you, I consider that a compliment of the highest quality. Thank you.

Be well.

-=Raistlin

Just FYI - Tom did jump while we were there. Story should air in October on a new ESPN show.

Am I missing something here? Shouldn't the people that took the course be the ones that have an objective opinion about this? I took Tom's course, and it did not bother me the least that he did not jump with us... En contraire, it helped me a lot! The footage of launch/opening/body position and the rides back after the hike were not the only benefits... I am a (very) slow packer, and Tom remaining at top helped me put more jumps in. One more thing (that's been pointed out already): Tom had a rig on and was ready to jump (if needed) every time we walked on the bridge. Hi 5's in the landing area?! Common...

I also was on Tom's course, I'm bit offended you think I need Tom to jump as well just so I can Hi 5 him in the landing area...

I'll be honest I wasn't sure how the course would be run, being that BASE is unregulated and unstructured, Tom gave me exactly what I was after a structured well run course that covers all the things a mentor might not have time to or you might not learn about until you have done 20 jumps the wrong way. In terms of Tom not jumping with us he did make several jumps on the course and I was one of the people he was packing for instead of jumping. If I had to choose which was most beneficial out of seeing someone jump or being able to make another jump myself because that person packed a rig for me.....I think the answer is pretty obvious.

Sounds like your BASE mentor didn't hug you enough.

I took Tom's course in December '05 and didn't mind in the least that he didn't jump with us most of the time; in fact I felt a little guilty while he sat at the top of the bridge packing in 17-degree windy weather while we hiked out instead of jumping, so we could make another one before having to go back to his house to pack (it was kind of crappy out and there was only a little space under the bridge to pack one or two rigs at a time)

He did make at least one jump while we were there, to show us the way to climb out.

If you think that someone needs to literally hold a student's hand the whole time and even be there at the bottom to give them a High 5 after their jump, then maybe you don't quite get why some people enjoy BASE.

After they land from opening their first tower solo, nobody will be there to high five them and tell them how rad it was, and sometimes that can be pretty cool.

If you're satisfied with landing from your first jump at the perrine and high-fiving your fellow FJC-mate(s) and waiting until you hike out to get a cookie or a pat on the back from your instructor, then you probably won't be bitching about tom not jumping during your course.

If you want to cuddle with your mentor and get a reacharound after your first base jump, talk to slambo..

some of my most rewarding jumps have been solo.
standing at the bottom, knowing I succeeded. not distracted by others.

Miles jumps hard and hikes out fast. he is amazing. I doubt he could set the incredible pace he does if he always needed others to high-5...

are you serious??

yeah umm he sounds just dreamy........

aww how sweet, maybe you two should hook up

sniff, sniff.
maybe THAT is my problem. I guess I'll add it to my list of topics for therapy...

 
If you think that someone needs to literally hold a student's hand the whole time and even be there at the bottom to give them a High 5 after their jump, then maybe you don't quite get why some people enjoy BASE.

After they land from opening their first tower solo, nobody will be there to high five them and tell them how rad it was, and sometimes that can be pretty cool.

If you're satisfied with landing from your first jump at the perrine and high-fiving your fellow FJC-mate(s) and waiting until you hike out to get a cookie or a pat on the back from your instructor, then you probably won't be bitching about tom not jumping during your course.

If you want to cuddle with your mentor and get a reacharound after your first base jump, talk to slambo..
sorry guys i never took a fjc, so i must be mistaken. i just think about how i would want to do it if i was to teach one myself, and i think id like to jump with my students. however you might die if you took one from me so i wouldnt recommend it. if you went in ghetto wouldnt be able to toss your salad, actually he would still bang you in the ass i think so its all good.

Always strikes me as strange how often homoerotic references get brought up...


-=Raistlin

I'm sorry, you must have mistaken what I said as an offer.. but at least you understand which one of us would be wearing the bra and panties in that scenario, so its all good

It's a socially acceptable way of shrugging off the feelings of affection and bonding that men feel when they do fun (or dangerous) things together. There are some interesting psychological studies about it.

Oh Ether.....

Is that an inclusive-or or an exclusive-or ?

 
Just for the record, I have nothing against Tom or this ESPN project. My knee jerk response was because I assumed he would post about how wrong it was and that it was only going to be a bad thing for this sport.

I have tons of respect for all you guys/gals that have been doing it for years and can only learn and form opinions from what you teach me/us/newjumpers (and by example).

So, I didn’t mean to be harsh, just caught off guard because I saw a major contradiction in what I’m learning.

It’s all good!

there would be no bra and panties involved at all. unless you are into that whole chicks with dicks fetish.

without a microscope, i doubt i'd even notice

Come to think of it, I didn't get any hi-5's from Tom in the landing area when I took his course. Damn it! I want my money back!

Did Luc mention he's a slow packer?