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AM tower at night that broadcast gospel music and landing area was a graveyard, pretty sick for a first jump eh?

PCA'd from about 325ft and the bridle ripped clean off. Perfect night and nice path to shoot for that was clear as day when my sight adjusted.

Thanks PotatoHead™
Peace.

Nice choice for landing area.
So, is BASE for you?

I believe so.

Before the jump there was another friend who was gonna go and was talking it all up while i just sat quiet because i really didnt know if i was going to do it.

Physically picking up the rig and putting it on was nearly as tough as making my legs push off. Was sick.

Launching head up his pretty intimidating when a rigs pushing against an object making you lean forward with your arms fully extended.

doesn't sound like a very smart jump to me...


PS - rumor is: the police are looking for potato head, and his local DZ is mad at him.

did Potato Head jump?

to add rational reasons to my previous post:


low and guyed tower.


at which point? the bridle connection at the canopy is designed to break at 400lbs (around there) of force... what did it wrap around, or what caused this?





I would also like to know if PotatoHead jumped after you.

It was the actual bridle that tore from friction (on the tower). Not the connection.

He locked himself into the tower and i done a double exit count as i lost my nerve on the first. He just sat there, said nothing and let me do my thing. No pressure, it was all my decisions.

So before you slam the guy i'm not a kid who jumps on the band waggon. I'm an adult and make my own choices.

And i know enough to know it wasnt the smartest choice but lets face it. BASE isnt safe is it?

Was it an actual bridle? Or the sewn together piece of 3 different kinds of fabric that he had on the "Death Rig?" If it was that one, did it break at one of the joints, or is it now a 4 segment "bridle?"

What was the bridle made of? Dirty laundry?

It was an actual bridle.

If an activity has an inherently high degree of risk, is that a reason to increase the risk, or a reason to try to reduce it as much as possible?

there is a big difference between dangerous and unsafe.

So if i built my own rig and jumped it from a cliff that would be better? Kudos to that guy because that wasnt dangerous or unsafe.

How about getting a guy who jumped in '66 to jump at bridge day instead? (rip)

Flame me all you want, i done something that i know wasnt an ideal way to start BASE. But you know what? Im happy with it.

I didnt burn any sites or piss off any locals, they all know i jumped it.

not trying to flame anyone...

ignorance is NOT bliss.

be safe kiddo.

I hear ya.

sorry man, was not flaming you. i was actualy replying to toms post. my bad.

your not the first to get into this sport in a 'sketchy' way.

No worries mate

You didnt die.....but by the sounds of it ( and I'm still trying to interpret what exactly went wrong for the 'bridal to snap' you mention PCA but it sounds like a S/L..???) it was far from an ideal first jump.

Have to say Andy I'm a little dissapointed you dont seem to have listened very carefully to the points that a few UK BASEr's took time to talk to you about...

Not saying that because you have done your first jump...not at all, but rather the thinking gone into the way you have done your first jump ( ie people/equipment and knowledge of equipment).....I could be way of the mark here...and if I am please accept my apologies

Anyway....congrats on the first jump, I know you wanted it....and I know that feeling of wanting it bad...
Getting yourself on a recognised FJC would be a really smart move now.

I listened to what they said and i still carry it. For someone paying for their own jumps i'd say 66 in a month is pretty current working on canopy drills

I dont plan on going back to the UK expecting to be welcomed and i accept that. All i ask is that people take a step back and remember their hunger for this shit and put themselves back in my position.

andy , if you want to basejump you may have just made things really difficult for yourself when you get back to england. i mean a real setback to your base carrer.

im an english basejumper and i prefer jumping with other people but when i want to go and jump theres no way im calling you.
i know some of the people who have given you advice and to ignore them when it looks like all you needed to do was wait one more skydiving season shows very poor judgement.

to jump with the guy you did and then post it on this website shows a desperate cry for attention.

edit to remove PA ~TA

congratulations on your first base jump and all the attention it gets you.

Thanks for the personal attack. I think that tells me enough about you.

Like i said, im happy with my decision.

Edit: Cry for attention? get over yourself.

Oh yea, i repeat, get over yourself

then why are you sat on your computer immediately answering every reply to YOUR thread?

Because im living at the DZ in a foreign country and ran myself flat broke, just so i could get this opportunity.

Im all packed ready for sunset load, if you can think of a better way i should spend my time id like to hear it.

reading how to do SL's
;-)

packing for money.

Are these comments really going helping a new jumper in the uk.

no.



has dorkzone ever helped anyone? (that's was a rhetorical question)

stop begging for attention get off the internet, go outside and learn something.

dude.. remember the spermicidal foam on our canopies, dorkzone saved us there!

arent you the guy who static lined his rig from an antenna (sensitive site) and then left it hanging from a tree in the sun for a week?

This is not about me,,,,,(ps)Yes i did, but now i put the rig on, every one make's little mis-haps along the way or am i the only muppet on the planet.

so, that's a yes?

and then you begged for your rig back accusing the people who got it down of theft?

Begged, no asked nicely because i,m a nice person.

i apologise dan , ive just checked the thread.

http://www.basejumper.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=400&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=

and you did ask nicely.

edited to add: im not surprised to see you in this thread desperate dan, when i read andys first couple of posts it reminded me of you.

The only thing i recovered was was a sense or humor,impressively never returned it to date ,it was a nice canopyTHIS IS NOT ABOUT ME.

but did you learn anything? do you listen now?

Well done lad. I know that you've wanted this for a long time-



but stay safe and dont stop listening

Thanks Tony

What the northerner said. See you soon

Congrats and very funny thread !

Fair one, but forget that this is about you for a minute and consider that there may be (many) other jumpers thinking the same, who can't be arsed tapping it out on the internet.

Cummulatively, they know a lot about enjoying and staying alive in a very dangerous sport. By displaying poor judgement, you will exclude yourself from the opportunity to jump with and learn from them.

Congrats on making your first BASE jump & still being alive. I'm happy to admit a sneaky admiration that you found your own way, regardless of the fact that you must have known it was seriously stupid. I also like the fact that you're not debating that aspect of it. But please understand that risk management is the way forward: accepting that something is dangerous and taking responsibilty are *not* the same as sticking your head in the sand and blindly taking pointless risks, with no visible benefit.

And you must have known when you stepped off, with a known piece of shit on your back, mentored by a known cunt that if you went in, all and sundry on the generic handbag.com would be saying told him so; what a spanner.

You've still got options now:
a) Tell us all to go fuck ourselves. Revel in being a renegade amongst renegades. You'll find your own way and nothing will get in your way.

b) The longer, harder, safer route: work long and hard on getting more skydives and turning your reputation around.

Good luck with whatever you chose.

I look forward to jumping with you in a couple of years time, if you're still alive.

You were PCA'd, and somehow the bridle wrapped around the tower?

What do you suppose caused that? Do you think this indicates some sort of problem with the equipment? Or the configuration? Or the choice of technique for the jump?

 Are you WI-Fly in disguise ????? Or just his twin brother from across the pond ......

Oh yeah congrats on doing something that is inherently unsafe in an unsafe manner.

SkyDiveAl, that's a personal attack. I've banned you from this forum for 14 days.

I do not understand what happened with the bridle. it sounds like you are using different vocabulary than the rest of us. (or I'm clueless...) instead of posting here, maybe spend your time reading a bit more.

you will be treated harshly for entering the sport as you did. it contained elevated risk. many before have done the same, and now do everything they can to prevent it. you'll understand after assisting in the rescue of multiple friends...

please stay off Nick's list!

Come on peeps give the man a break. He's chuffed to fuck about doing his 1st BASE jump and joining your club.
Instead of flaming him, why not be pleased for him and bring him on safely? (I Do know that some people have privately given him good advice in the past).
He's just starting out, as you all did once.

Anyone here not made a mistake? ... yeah, thought not.

No one is goint to heed advice given through a PA or a flame.. so why bother slapping your keys?

.

Just how long is that exactly?

Ahh, great, Dangerous Dan's eminently qualified ground crew...

Clearly, you are very much out the loop

Andy

Fill your boots, hope you have fun. Just dont bother contacting me ever again. You are a fucking twat in my eyes. You have just bascially called me and the other people that took time out to meet you cunts.

Go fuck yourself.

Michael

PS) Yes, this is a personal attack.

michael.

you so pretty.

andy.

i dont know you. so i dont care what you do. have fun. dont go in.
youll figure it out or youll die.

try not to be so pompous.but you britian types are so tough. so...

edit to add. i love new york.

the tv show.

I met you and i listened.

edit to remove threat of physical violence ~TA

Whatever Mac, you were the first person to admit that you went about it the wring way.

Find reason.

edit to remove quoted threat of physical violence ~TA


uhm... sir... I think we're getting a bit violent here. why don't you chill out and make some rational thoughts for moment here.

I've been skydiving almost 2 years. When i first saw skydiving it was a thing that was unatainable, let alone BASE jumping.

I started skydiving and the more i done it the more i realised that i could achieve the things i wanted.

Bash me all you want Craig, it doesnt matter because nothing in the world can take away what i done. its not macho bullshit or "look at me i jumped..."

Its a real sense of pride in a humble way.

If you done something you felt was right at the time and had someone call you a twat how would you feel? especially someone you considered a friend.

I assure you it would and should be handled in an entirely different manner.

- ask for a mod to lock the thread.

- send apologies via PM, and deal with any problems you think you might have via PM.

- public forums do NOT provide a good environment for argument resolution.

True

But at the same time i wont ask this to be locked or apologise.

I done all my apologising on the tower.

why did i even bother?

I sent you a PM. think about what I wrote to you.

otherwise...


get a picture of the bridle you used on this jump, and post it on the other 'serious' thread... many of us are curious about it.

No respect? You dont even know me.

Sitting at the bottom of that tower looking up after jumping was the most humbling experience of my life.

Please guys, delete your PA posts. There is a lot to be learned here.
Take care,
space

“doesn't sound like a very smart jump to me”

“ignorance is NOT bliss.”

“get into this sport in a 'sketchy' way”

“Have to say Andy I'm a little dissapointed you do”

“the thinking gone into the way you have done your first jump ( ie people/equipment and knowledge of equipment”

“if you want to basejump you may have just made things really difficult for yourself when you get back to england. i mean a real setback to your base carrer.”

“By displaying poor judgement, you will exclude yourself from the opportunity to jump with and learn from them”

“regardless of the fact that you must have known it was seriously stupid”

“with a known piece of shit on your back, mentored by a known cunt that if you went in,”

“Oh yeah congrats on doing something that is inherently unsafe in an unsafe manne”

“you will be treated harshly for entering the sport as you did”

WTF!
You guys….<shakes head>

From the information you have, you make assumptions and go off on all these negative tangents? What basis do you have for making these statements?

Sheesh…the guy made his first jump. There was an unforeseen equipment problem. You’ve never had one?

what I have read is that this jumper wants to brag about his first jump.

something failed on that jump, but he has yet to describe that failure so that we can understand. it appears he doesn't know his equipment. (and doesn't he make money packing? yikes.)

the jumper appears to have been given advise from jumpers back home in the U.K., and chosen to ignore it.

the jumper was "supervised" by someone busted about a month ago in a dodgy situation. that jump also involved a beginner.

the jumper is spending a lot of energy on this thread, defending his achievement. energy that could be spent researching and learning. maybe then he could explain better the failure that occured on his jump.

I for one have NO desire to encourage this jumper. his enthusiasm appears to greatly exceed his knowledge base. some would compliment him. I view the situation as a statistic likely to happen. I have helped too many injured jumpers already. I'd prefer trying to prevent another.

sure, I doubt he thinks he will get hurt. he expects it won't happen to him. but when someone pointed out he assumed more risk than necessary, he replied so? isn't it a risky activity anyway?

the attitude I've seen displayed on this thread paints a picture of someone who will only listen to people telling him what he wants to hear. he wants people to facilitate him, not train him.

I hope I'm wrong.
I do not know him.
I hope good things happen to him.
but I do not know how to help someone that ignores advise.

Oy, how many skydives did you, Andy, do before you went off the tower?

Why didn't you do a FJC?

How did you end up finding someone across the ocean that wanted to pca you from a tower?

If the bridle ripped, I assume the canopy was already out?

Pm me if you must. I'm just curious.

Very very interesting thread!

First - congrats on your first jump Andy, glad you followed your heart and finally obtained that dream you actually went to the US to complete. I might not agree with the way you went about it, but you know me....I'd never flame you for your decision and still happy you got your first BASE off.

Its not like you did a Headdown 3 way with only 50 jumps..

Stay safe, listen to the advice those on here who have managed to stay alive, and have fun.

For those of you who dont know Andy, yes he knows about gear and has been studying up on BASE for quite some time. He has asked lots of questions over the past 1.5 years I've known him and met with quite a few BASE jumpers. He did his homework is what i'm trying to say, and though he didnt do an FJC and did his first jump with someone who is disliked on the forum.....he did do his first jump.

Now i'm sure he will continue with more knowledge and with the help of more credible jumpers (though i dont personally know potatohead).

For those with the personal attacks....lay off. He did something most of you have written about doing yoruselves and survived. Lets use this forum to help guide him into making his next jumps safer. We can either push him away from the help and set him up for failure, or pull him close and help out.

Good job and see you soon Andy.

Damn! You stole my thunder! If I posted every stupid thing I've done over the last few decades I'd be dodging shit for weeks! Woodpecker and I are in agreement here.

Congrats Andy! Live 'n Learn.

"There was an unforeseen equipment problem."

The bridle wrapping around the tower and ripping off is most certainly not an "unforeseen" problem. It is a major issue that could have been solved by a simple gear check and/or a little common sense. I'm sorry, but the day I don't notice a problem as serious (and avoidable) as this, is the day I quit. Also, I would bring into question the person who PCA'd on the jump. Did he have his eyes closed? That is not something that a competent jumper would easily miss.

Come on, Mac, you know better.

Making personal attacks might make you feel better, but it's not going to change Andy's behavior. Wouldn't you rather have a discussion with him and actually change the long term outcomes?

I've banned you from this forum for 14 days. I'm sure you and Andy have each other's phone numbers, and you've also got the other forum with this discussion, where the moderation will be a little more understanding of emotional outbursts.

Andrew is probably a very good person to ask that question of, because he had a very similar situation less than a year ago.

I don't know what he said in his PM, bu I bet you can learn some things from his experience that will help you as you move forward.

Andy,

I've edited the threat out of your post.

Under the understood guidelines for bans in this forum, I ought to be banning you for 28 days. I'm not going to do that.

I've banned you for 24 hours. Try to use that time to step away and cool down a little.

There are a lot of good people who are trying to help you. Virtually all of your experienced locals, and certainly all of them with reputations for good judgement and skills, are among them. Try to listen, take a step back, and re-evaluate where you are going, and what you are doing.


I'm sure that Jason will be seeing this as yet more evidence of my moderation bias, and re-bumping the thread about Nick's forum .

Fuck's sake...I hate waiting two days for an answer to a simple question.

Ah well...at least it's not a whole month then aye.

Congratulation! After your first jump, at least 50% of all basejumpers in the world know who you are

( I assume 50% read this forum from time to time)

Maybe Tom should let this post be sticky on the top for awhile, to show how to introduce your self to the BASE comunity!

PM's are still available. When you are banned, it's only from the one forum.

Alright. Well I was beeing a bit foul perhaps.

lovelovelove

I think that describing that as "an unforeseen equipment problem," is going a long way to understate it.

I've never heard of a similar case. Have you? Because I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting to hear about that, if you have.

All of my best guesses as to what caused that little "unforeseen equipment problem" point toward either gross user error or negligent gear maintenance. Either of those things indicate an extremely substandard teaching/learning environment.

It sounds like you must be speaking from substantial experience with both BASE jumping and the instruction thereof. Can you please share your experience with us?

You have a good memory Tom ;-)

Because I think it might be constructive to repeat it, here is the PM I sent:




as I tried to make clear, I'm not an expert... no where near it... but those are the questions I would be thinking about in his situation. and to be (sadly) honest, I wasn't impressed with his reply...

To jump a skydiving container in this day and age, to me, is sad :-(


but at least he's made a smart decision, hopefully he chooses to abide by the words he said to me:

As someone who got into BASE the "wrong way" as well. I had a VERY rewarding and lucky first jump, and then shattered my ankle in 6 places on my second. I was jumping skydiving gear on a 400' tower and had 46 skydives and was just soooo damned hard up to get into the sport. The difference was, I had no mentors available in my part of Texas and internet guidance was not in existence yet. Take advantage of the cool folks you got in the U.K. and try not to burn any bridges. It's a really small community worldwide and if you wanna get invited to the cool shit, you might wanna settle down a little and start buying ALOT of beer for people. Lot's of beer and an attitude change can fix anything. Trust me.

And congrats on not killing yourself right out the starting gate.

Sometimes, in the morning, I'm still in bed even though I have to pee really bad. I want to go to the toilet because it's starting to hurt, but it's nice and warm under the blankets and I think to myself: "I will not let my life be dictated by my bladder!"

Anybody else ever have that problem? I hate it. I wonder if I should just pee in bed instead.

just go man, just go...

it's very liberating.

Better yet, roll over, stick it in her ass and let er rip. Nothing says "get the fuck out" better then a rectum full of piss

what?! at least he didnt mention insects. a threat of violence and 24 hrs. makes no sense tom.

Sorry but i have to step in here. From what i have seen of Andy, he is one of the best canopy pilots i have ever seen in 14 years of jumping for his level of jumps. he researched it, and followed through with it. Was is the problem here. I have many friends in the base and i was Friends with Jason Rooney who taught me some stuff over in Australia. Why disrespect andy for making a choice to persue BASE. That is the problem with living in the UK. It is full of really narrow minded people that think they are the shit. Andy has had training from people over here with far more base jumps than yourself, and i dont mean potatoe head. If you want to flame someone then fine but find out all the facts before you do so.

You see, over here in the states, some people do not judge you based on who's ass you kiss.
i am sure andy has no desire to jump with you either. he has much better coaches over here.
Congrats on your 1st base andy.

If I remember correctly it was Andy who started the thread. Among other things, he mentioned that he did his first jump from an antenna without an FJC, he said that "his bridle ripped clean off", he thanked Potato Head (who has a known reputation), and he chose the word "sick" to describe his first jump.

All those indicate a strong desire to be flamed. For somebody with 3729 posts on these forums, that should be blatantly obvious.

That doesn't necessarily justify the flames, but right or wrong is not the issue here. If you travel to a war zone you may end up getting shot. Are you gonna complain you didn't deserve the bullet, or realize you may have been at the wrong place at the wrong time?

If you can't stand the heat, get away from the fire. If you need a pat on the shoulder, post the video on YouTube.

I don't see that at all.

I see people strongly disagreeing with Andy's choice of how to pursue BASE, specifically his ignoring their advice, his selection of first jump instructor, his selection of first jump object, and his selection of first jump gear.

That's very different from disrespecting a choice to pursue BASE jumping.



Perhaps, rather, it's got some local BASE jumpers who want to help keep Andy from becoming a statistic.

Time and again I see people "befriending" young jumpers who want to take up BASE, and "helping" them by putting them into dangerous situations that they are clearly unprepared for. I'd suggest to you that these are not real "friends," nor are they actually "helping" anyone, least of all the new jumper.

In this light, perhaps we ought to consider the fact that those who are really helping are those trying to slow you down and put you on a safer path, if a somewhat slower one.




If those people mind being named here, perhaps you can PM their names and contact info to the concerned locals, so that they can contact them and get some objective reports on Andy's progress?




Hmmm. Perhaps that's not as high a recommendation as you might think. I never knew him, but the stories I've heard definitely qualify as "mixed" at the very least.

don't get me wrong, i personally advised andy against jumping. I did not agree with who or where he is jumping. The fact is, in years to come i am sure he will look back and think, damn what a fucking idiot i was doing that.
But do you think it helps any by calling him a cunt on here? The guy is very talented when it comes to canopy cantrol.
How many of you base guys/girls can look back and go wow i did everything perfect getting int o base jumping. Andy did start the thread because he was proud of his first base jump and he wanted the base community to maybe help and maybe give him some advise. he is still young and eager. Give the guy a break. Now if he comes on here saying where he jumped with the location then flame away.

I'm happy to discuss it more via PM. The short version is that I think that Andy's participation in this thread can still be useful to him, and generally to all of us.

How many of them had the advice and guidance that Andy had?

yes some of your replies make sense but just one question. What qualifies someone as a base candidate? I mean really. Because i hang out and know probably about 17 base jumpers which really isnt that many. Some have basee numbers less than the 300 mark. I come across people who have been instructed and have less jumps than andy yet about 35+base jumps. From what i have gathered is andy has tried to pursue base through quite a few people yet has been turned down for whatever reasons. Yet other people i know have been trained by highly respected base jumpers in the community with far less jumps than andy.
Don't get me wqrong, i know nothinbg of potatos reputation or skill level when it comes to base so please forgive me. Is it thge training he recieved that was sketchy or the fact he did a base jump with his amount of jumps

I don't think there's a universal answer to that, but some of the things I look for are:

(a) Judgment and restraint: knowing "when to say when" is a critical survival skill in BASE. Someone who rushes into BASE itself is generally more likely to be injured while BASE jumping, in my opinion.

(b) Adequate preparation: Honestly, I'd like to see students with upwards of 1000 skydives, and a good helping of CRW and Accuracy experience. Realistically, we're looking at typical FJC's requiring between 100 and 250 skydives, with only a very few discussing specifics of jump types.

(c) Good mentorship: Someone who's taken the time to establish contact with qualified jumpers near their home, who have the judgment and experience to mentor a new jumper.

(d) Contact with local jumpers: Someone who understands the way the BASE community fits together, and has therefore taken the time to make contact with their local jumpers, ask advice, and form relationships which they can draw on as they progress.

There are other things, too, but those are some big ones.




Hmmm. If you count several local jumpers making the time to answer questions, give guidance, and sit down for a chat about starting BASE, risks, and preparation as being "turned down", then perhaps. Personally, that sounds like an excellent start to a BASE career--very different from being "turned down."




What was sketchy about it?

(a) Choice of object (low, guyed tower)
(b) Choice of gear (converted skydiving canopy, converted skydiving rig)
(c) Something (we're still not clear what) wrong with the PCA technique
(d) Choice of Instructor (a guy who was recently busted taking a first timer off a building)


On this forum, at least, we have no idea what training he received. Did he do any exit practice? Did he learn to pack? Was their a discusison of PCA technique and potential problems? What training was given for avoiding object strike in the event of an offheading into the (quite close) guy wires? Was there a discussion of rescue and getaway plans? I have no idea--do you?


Was doing the jump at his level of skydiving experience a bad choice? Perhaps. It's really hard to say without some in depth feedback about what he's been doing for the past month. 66 jumps. Ok, now what kind of jumps? Were they on a large 7 cell? Were they freefly jumps done on a ZP 9 cell? Were they BASE specific canopy drill jumps done on a BASE canopy with good coaching? Without more information, I don't think anyone can say.

everyone must answer that on their own.

the same as with whom you choose to jump.

personally, I choose to jump with people I trust. people who make sound judgements. people I'd happily take care of in case of injury (even if that means getting busted and possibly ending my career). people who will look after me.

with the correct attitude and strong judgement, the other skills can be learned.

Andy seems to be treating the BASE community like a coven of vampires from an Anne Rice novel. he wanted to be bitten so he could join the coven. none back home would oblige, so he travellled to the States. now that he has been bitten, he expects we must accept him --- he is now one of us. little does he realize I won't jump with just anybody, and I'm sure some will not jump with me.

Andy's judgement and risk assessment skills appear flawed. his post that started this thread had a serious "in your face" attitude toward those that tried to slow him down. it really didn't read like he welcomed advice.

hopefully, I'm wrong. he might be a great guy, eager to listen. people can be different face to face.

earlier someone posted "Live and Learn." I agree wholeheartedly. but from Andy's posts, I can only tell that he lived...

Choice of object (low, guyed tower, AM tower)


I remember a story about puking excessively after a jump from an AM tower.

Tom,
{Good thread...sorry if this is slightly off topic}
Is there an online guide to suggested BASE specific canopy drill jumps? I'm thinking of taking an FJC in Twin Falls in the fall and would like to do all the canopy prep I can. I fly a big 7 cell (Tri220). Thanks.

Found this after a search...

http://www.crmojo.com/adobepdf/fjccanopy.pdf

Good stuff. Any other info resources?

Hi,

I think that you need to meet him before you make the kinds of judgements that you wrote here... Like most, his on-line and off-line attitides are not the same and once he's been slagged off he'll kick back (and why not?).

Skinny has seen him jump more recently than any of us and by his numbers he's a lot more current than some of us back home. He'll learn and fast.

As usual, Tom's level headed appraoch is the best part of this thread and if Andy has any sense at all he'll take more from them than the others - Did you read that Andy!!!

Give him a chance... he's not always a Fenland c*nt


Regards,

See what I mean? Where did you get that? You are jumping to conclusions and flaming the guy based on false info.

Well, I could expect better than that from such a supposedly tight-knit community as B.A.S.E jumpers.

I am sure that the people who love you wouldn't mind if other alternative outcomes arose as a result of the decision you were happy with.

As long as you are happy, . . . . . . happy...

Keep surviving!!

I do not think you and I have met, so you do not know me, and I do not know you.

I'm sure you have an impression of me, somewhere between a guru and a twat. (hopefully, close to neither extreme...)

you are correct that we all need to give people a chance to be different in person. Andy could well have been so energized and excited from his first jump that his emotion came through on his posts. fair enough. I hope that is the case.

I also know non-jumpers and BASE wannabes read these forums. just saying "great job" to anyone who survives a BASE jump is wrong. it can encourage copycat behavior. (note other threads have been critical of Luigi, Felix, Jeb, etc.) do you think it wise to encourage the mentorship Potatohead provides? (I've never met him either...)

heck, there is a thread somewhere that attacks me... so be it.

I try to like every actual BASE jumper I meet. I figure I can probably learn something from most of them. (it's one of the great things about BD!)

and yes, I've done stupid things. you probably do not know about them as I prefer to "keep BASE personal, not public."

Yet you defend the way he did the jump. I don't get it??? Up front you had doubts. In hindsight you defend his outcome despite it being life threatening and VERY poorly executed.

Broken bridles are VERY SERIOUS problems. They only happen when gross errors are made. There is a wealth of information available to EVERYONE that would prevent this from happening.

If the guy can afford to travel, he can afford gear and appropriate mentoring. Obviously his priorities are a little different to other people.l


Currency is great. But it is worth nothing with a poor attitude!

If he had of started with something like: "First jump. I feel great. But this happened and I messed up. Learned from that and will not repeat. Should have taken advise. etc" - I think most people would have had a different opinion of him.


What do you think Andy???

Don't know much about the AM part, but over here "low" guyed towers are commonly used as first time objects. With the right wind conditions they are regarded as rather safe objects. My first was a 135m (~400ft), with three sectors. I know you're quite into the bridges over there, but alternative approaches can work aswell. But then again it's common to start from bigwalls here...
The pca part sounds strange though. Why not take a second, handheld?

The perfect/safest approach to base is easy to outline, but for many the reality may be a compromise (risk, available objects, time, cost, contacts, etc.). Very few of us have tried the ideal version.

"The bridle ripped clean off". That is a fact, correct? Well, by all means, if you know what happened, then, please, enlighten us. Anyway you look at it, there is no good reason for a bridle to "accidentally" rip clean off of the system. No matter how it happened. Oh, and for your information, if anyone was flamed by me, it was this "potatohead", and I think he deserves a little heat for almost getting someone killed. I PM'd Andy and gave him constructive criticism, not flames. I think (or hope at least) that he will take something positive from all of this, so don't be so defensive. I have met five people since I started BASE jumping three and a half years ago who are now on Nick's list. There is no reason for anyone to stand here and let Andy become a statistic when all he needs is a little guidance. Can't you see from at least Tom's posts alone that people are trying to bring something constructive out of this?
Adam
921

"You are jumping to conclusions"

Looks to me from the video that the bridle did in fact rip off of the canopy and was still tethered (or wrapped to) the antenna.

The video that I posted in the other thread was not of the jump being discussed in this thread. It was a different jump with a similar issue. The jump in that case was static line (not PCA) was from a freestander (not a guyed tower) and was done by an experienced jumper (not a student).

In Andy's defense, he did initially plan to buy BASE gear and travel to take a First Jump Course.

We (that being myself and several UK jumper, but if you want to blame someone blame me) convinced him that he would be better off doing more skydiving, which is why he went on this skydiving trip, rather than coming to take a BASE course.

So the question is: why didn't you take a FJC with someone equally skilled but less picky?

AM info from mr.bazil's website:

http://www.chrisbazil.com/am.htm


"Low" Guyed: I don't have any resources that state it, but thinking about it logically... on lower guyed towers, the guyed wires are going to be closer together then on taller towers. I.E. there are some 1000+ guyed towers you can fly through guyed wires without injury, which decreases the risk.

On lower towers the guyed wires become an effective "wall" giving you 120 degrees of flying space. as compared to a bridge where you have 360 degrees.

Oh, my mistake. Is there video of this jump?

Congrats Andy. Glad you're OK.

Although 'Tater is a friend, get proper gear before you do it again.

Hey, I met your brother-in-law that is about to start AFF out here in Texas, though I can't remember his name.

where is this video of the bridal connection ripping off? I re-read this thread, couldnt find it.

is it true that the Connection is designed to tear at 400lbs? who picked that number? is it tested? i had no idea about that. I looked at my gear, and it lookes a bit stronger than 400lbs.

i said 400 because i knew it was at least that...

i vaguely remember there being a 50 in the number...

a better guess would be 450 or 550... but don't quote me on that.

it's in the "serious" version of this thread

http://www.skydivingmovies.com/...ion=file&id=5692

It probably depends on the make of the canopy, but I've definitely talked with canopy manufacturers who told me that the bridle attachment was purposefully engineered to tear away before other parts of the canopy broke off, in order to make it possible to do a "Karnowski" (that's the new official name of the unpacked jump where you hang from the bridle at line stretch, then either cut off or tear away the bridle and/or attachment to get the canopy flying).

I believe this was originally intended for skydiving (in case the PC/bridle wrapped the tail of the aircraft) but I could be wrong.

I'll agree with you that the bridle attachment on my Apex canopies (especially the multi equipped canopies) looks _a lot_ stronger than 400 pounds.

most of the ones i've seen are square, here's from my mojo.

i called them load bearing seams, because it sounded right... but it's prolly not.

I got a PM from a very reputable manufacturer, stating it at at least 550lbs,

i must have mis-read your post andrew, sorry.

it does make sense for the attatchment to tear away before you rip the topskin off the canopy.

thanks.

Yes.

Yes to both because i know of at least 2 base jumpers that did their first base jump 15 years ago before ever making a skydive so what is it

I know 300 jump wonders loading canopies at 2.5+

Doesn't mean it's a smart thing to do either.

i'm just curious...

who doesn't think this was unreasonably sketchy, and why?

...or are these other people just playing devil's advocate?

No but andy took advice from some very respectable base jumpers what he didnt do was do that with a respectable base jumper. In my opinion he rushed the FJC.. Hes youny and impatient. Now it is up to the responsible base jumpers to guide him not flame him

I'll bet if you could see the contents of his PM mailbox, you might see there is a lot of "guidence" happening.

lol i really hope so.. hes young and impatient.lol let the right people help him out in my opinion a 400ft antenna 1st jump is not the riught guiddance he needss.lol

Are you the guy that flicked the 250' grain elevator in Lubbock some years back.

Is he an adult and does he have a brain?

IT IS UP TO HIM!!!!!!!!!!!! He's the guy that needs to make the decisions. He is the one who decides whether or not he wants to heed advice or just treat it with disdain. It is NOT up to others to make those decisions for him.


May I suggest that you start comparing the training programs and sequence of the thousands of people who did it right or at least made an attempt to pursue the sport in an appropriate manner.

Stop comparing with the low end of the bell curve. And stop justifying a persons actions based on a minority of events or people. This is not a court case where precedence is important. This is life where the health and wellbeing of YOU and/or your colleague is important.

Let me put it to you simply: pull your $^$&$%ing head out of the sand and make some effort at preserving life.

In the end, like your friend, this is your decision to make.

Fun will then follow naturally.

Good luck with it all.

> You’ve never had one?
——————————————————————————————
Not at the first BASE jump...

Getting in BASE in a less than ideal way and then expecting more experinced jumpers to guide him (your words , not his) sets a very dangerous precedent and terrible example for future people wanting to BASE jump.
ie ..
" hey look at this guy....he got looked after , all he had to do was do the first jump any old way and then the BASE community felt an obligation to take him into the fold.....so all I have to do is the same."

This has been debated plenty...logically and passionately on the UK boards plenty of times...with the conclusion that you pretty much had better have a mentor ( of some description) if you expect the UK community to 'welcome' you with 'open arms'...and that mentor (if they were half decent)certainly would not have approved of how Andy went about his first jump.
I didnt/dont have a 'mentor' on return from my FJC....but had a reasonable amount of time in BASE preparation ( about 2 years), my own gear and a 10 day FJC with a very reputable English jumper......and still had trouble initially on my return to the UK getting help....The help is there, but the further away you are off the accepted route into BASE....the harder/longer it atkes to get some.

Andy doesnt seem to have done any of the above.....and I think the more experienced jumpers here are just getting a little tired of people not preparing for a healthy BASE career but rather a 'hasty' BASE career.
One of the experinced UK guys said in a post...

"we owe you nothing......but its all there for you for the taking, if you enter it the right way"

At the time I thought that was a little arrogant.....but it isnt.

All Andy has done is one jump....his first....whilst it is a milestone.....its also nothing.....nothing magical happens to you on your first jump where experience and wisdom gets infused as soon as you step off, if you are lucky you remember how you felt before hand and how sweaty your hands were when you landed.

its Andy who decides his own fate here....sure he can come back to the UK...stick two fingers up and go jump things on his own and tell us all if things get burned ,its the fault of the experinced UK guys for not helping him whne he got back home ( despite them trying to help him when he was just interested)......but I think they have seen this quite a few times now, and wont be too bothered about it.
Or
He can go back to basics...maybe get on a reputable FJC if he still wants to get into it now...get his own gear....make some contacts back in the UK and go GC and go learn.

The next move isnt for the more 'experienced jumpers to help out'...thats been done to death here....no the next move is Andy's to make, no one elses.

(I'm not one of the experienced UK jumpers, but I annoyed a few on my return to the UK , so feel experienced enough in that area to reply to your post)

No Stich, never jumped in Lubbock. I was an Austin boy back when nobody BASE jumped within a 4hr. radius. Except for Bill Grimm of course and I wasn't gonna take on that dude as a mentor, no offense Billy, but also no way.

Yes, but good judgement is what helps people stay alive in this game - and stops you being a potential liability to those jumping with you. Good judgement was not shown here, through an action of Andy's own free will, even though he should have known better.

How do you think this is going to be viewed by those he may wish to jump with subsequently? Do you honestly believe that many will take the risk given that, due to the displayed eagerness, he might need rescuing?

OK here's the score.

Potato did give me training, i saw him packing a BASE rig and went over to watch quietly in deep thought, all the stuff i had been reading over a year and a half started making even more sense as i watched the pack job (just for example the tailgate.)

I started asking questions and noticed he was doing honking big heel stows etc and wanted to know why.

After all this it took about a month for me to approach him and ask him to help me out.

I HAVE done my canopy drills and put a few jumps on a Fury 220, im current as all hell right now.

Im not an arrogant go lucky guy who thinks i wont get hurt or die. I'm very realistic about my mortality and i dont need to explain the fear to you guys, you know.

I sat at the bottom of the tower with my back the the fence practicing exits with potato saying "not good enough, not good enough, not good enough" before he was happy. I ran over everything in my head that i knew about canopy control and what to do in the event of an off heading opening.

Then i sat there for a good solid 5 minutes at the bottom of the Antenna looking up at the lights then the rig on the floor just battling to get my hands to pick the rig up and start climbing. I've never picked up such a heavy object as that rig.

All while tater said nothing and let me make my own choice and fight my own battle.

Taking a break on the climb i watched the sweat drip from my head down past a couple of lights and blowing in the little breeze there was.

The rest is something i cant describe in any words i know, you know what i mean.

When all is said i done i KNOW i took a bigger risk than is desirable, with choice of object, gear and general skydiving experience (or lack of.)

But i did it, its everything and nothing at the same time. Everything to me and nothing because its a single jump. But nothing you guys on this board can say can take away the single worst and best experience of my life thus far.

You guys slam Tater and i dont know about his history, but at the same time the guy said the most important thing to me which was "dont be afraid to back down, if it doesnt feel right listen to your body, it is not right."

I have read every post in this thread and only had to ignore a couple (ones offering no advice) and recieved and am thankful for the PM's i have had.

At the same time i dont understand where people get the idea that i want to go home and start jumping off random objects and be welcomed home.

Living, learning, listening, not regretting.

Andy

It was going well until this point. Regardless of how good/bad your instructor was - are you telling us that you would allow someone you don't really know, without any references, and using substandard gear (proper BASE gear is available!) to put you in a very dangerous situation?

I'm not trying to taking anything away from your experience, but I feel you would benefit from logically thinking about the series of events.

Trying to untangle myth, flat out lies and truth from people you have never met is damn tough. I heard good things, i heard bad things and i heard down right laughable things.

Tater is a friend and i am also friends with a jumper who doesnt like the guy. All i could do was watch and make my own judgement. Tater is my friend and if that makes people take a dislike to me then they show lack of moral fiber.

So all i could do was make my own choice at that time.

So please, why didn't you take an FJC with someone who allows low jump nrs.

Thx

As Tom said, i didnt go there to BASE. I went to skydive and found an opportunity.

Ok then. And thx btw.
AM towers are really unhealthy! Take care.

The rhetoric that people fling around on these forums is downright scary. If you have some time, I'd love to see a more cohesive argument for what you just wrote.

Im not narrow minded enough to take sides when it comes to two people arguing if i find good in both. I'd rather keep them both as friends ad keep the fuck out of the politics. Why make life so fucking complicated? I'd rather not waste my life with such ridiculous bullshit like choosing sides in a handbag fight.

as for myself, I'm NOT trying to take anything from you. I can't.

I can attempt to influence you, and the others who would think it's the shizzle to follow your path. it's not. it is more likely to lead to the harsh realities of the sport.

your more recent posts display a calmer, more thoughtful side. now that's the shizzle! use those traits to keep yourself upright!

You do know that most AM towers are transmitting through out the whole tower. And that it is a possibility to ground yourself and get a nice shock while getting on the ladder. Just an FYI.
As for all of the negative comments on this thread; just sit back and laugh. We are not gods because we BASE. We are just people like anyone else, with the will to live in an extreme way. I do recommend to keep working on your canopy skills, practice exits, drills on 'what if' in your head over and over. Do your homework, examine each site on your own terms whether you are with someone that has jumped it or not. Jump for yourself and don't try to impress anyone with a camera on there head. Enjoy, welcome, and keep it real.

I take it from what I read earlier in the thread, that this was an "outside" climb??

You UK guys...

I understand your emotional responses and why you spoke out the way you did. Hell, I would be screaming too at anyone doing a bandit skydive for the first one. (the bandit skydive and the subsequent screaming have both happened).

But please, don't lock Andy out because of his first experience. I am 100% positive that he will go back to the UK and, if he wants to continue B.A.S.E. jumping, will seek out proper training and mentorship. I hope he gets it from you very experienced guys.

Continued flaming is counter-productive at this point. Everything has been said already...multiple times.

Andy is a friend and I want him to enjoy the thrill of all parachuting activities that he so desires. I want him to be as safe as possible and live to a ripe old age. I want to be receiving letters from him when he is 90 years old telling me what excting things he has been doing.

He's had his cussing out. And he knows. Now is the time to extend a helping hand, not turn your back.

Yep, outside climb.

PUSSY!!!

Of course your rock climbing sucks so bad I'd expect nothing less.

Keep banging on the keys Billy, my climbing is sweet

Hows Dan getting on with skydiving anyway?

Don't you go lumping me in with those guys.

Hey man glad all went well
Did you talk to any of the other "real" locals (i'm assuming youre at zhills)
when i met tater a few months back at the bar he could only talk smack about the other FJC's out there and offered to take me out. then he took me out to his van and had me look at his "BASE" gear.....well i'll leave it at that. I have made my only (3) base jumps VERY stupidly (this is looking back) at the time I was fucking slap happy for doing it. now i can see how ignorant i was.
Now I wont start again untill I take a FJC and hook up with all of the great mentors we have here.
again....
dude, i'm glad all worked out and I can still feel that buzz from the first one

No way, dude! You're in a class all your own!

hmm i would look at my self,what did i wrong?

ah got it someone who cares about me see that im hurting or killing myself.. Perhaps i should step back and look at what ive done and reevaluate if its a good idea what im doing right now..

well thats usaly how i do it.. It saved me once.. and often people were right..

You guys sure criticize PotatoeHead alot. He's actually not that irrational. I've been with him a few times. I've seen him climb down when he didn't feel right about the situation and I've seen him jump and land his $10 rig without incident when others weren't quite so lucky jumping BASE specific gear.

I will admit he is a little different and he's proud of his $10 rig. I don't know of anyone he's hurt or killed and it's not like he's out advertising a FJC, so get off his ass!

Even Steven Segal would cringe given that line in a script.

On the exit point did potatohead say

"hey andy, you're bleeding" and you turned around wearing your bandana and replied

"i aint got time to bleed, cya"

Look forward to the trailer

"ONE humble man.....ONE deadly mission....ONE terrifying BASE jump.....ONE hour to tell the online world.....

Andy Copland (sonic rodeo 147, muff 3974) is.....

ONE...A....BE"

loving it.

I've never met the guy, but the only reason I'm critical of him is because (i heard) he failed to appear at his court date for the previous base jump he was busted for.


quote from "base ethics"



and I personally think running from the law causes more problems for the community then not. which sounds worse:

1) base jumper convicted of tresspassing (etc, etc..)

2) base jumper brought in after missing court date for tresspassing


man up and take the punishment.

steven segal just happens to be a very good friend of mine.
when i tell him what you just said, he's gonna go all chuck norris on your ass.
steven segal NEVER cringes. EVER.

Not even after eating an entire Cheese-wheel??

Actual Laugh out loud.
Class Ian, class.

It's not an argument, it's just what he says.

Remember, people can change. And, in the end, what you may have experienced with someone may be totally different from what someone else has experienced with them. That's real life, and in this case it is Andy's real life experience. He's not a part of a collective, he is an individual. I think this thread has established that pretty well.

An argument can be a discussion, but the word has a second meaning - it can be a set of statements, one of which is the conclusion, and the others are premises. The premises provide support for the conclusion. In other words, the conclusion asserted to be true on the basis of the premises.

In this case, the premises were:

Some people can dislike a person just because he is a friend of Tater.

Tater is my friend.

Then two conclusions were made:

Some people dislike me.