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Locals report, that yesterday Mikhail Panchenko, a russian jumper, died nearby Vladivostok, Russia.
He jumped from an A, located just at the seacoast, and landed into water (+4 degrees C). Couldn't reach land, died of cold
Fly free...

Fly Free brother...

My sincere thoughts go out to all family and friends

I am utterly in shock. He called me just a couple weeks ago to ask for electric pylon jump advice -- he was concerned about static electricity. It is totally shocking to learn that he did jump it in the end... but at what price.

According to the report when he opened he apparently realized he would not make the landing zone and opted for the water landing. He landed some 100 ft from the shore into 40F water and struggled for 20 minutes before he lost consciousness of hypothermia and drowned. Ground crew tried to get to him to no avail and later had to be taken to hospital for hypothermia treatment. I don't know if he cut away the canopy. The rig he was jumping is a Paraavis Beast -- you can see that it has two cutaway handles, one for each riser, for no reason that I can comprehend. I don't know if it was of any consequence in this incident.

He was 20. His brand new rig had just arrived (you can see his name embroidered there on the mud flap in Russian).

I feel terrible.

Gus

RIP

Fly free brother

I would appreciate some comments on this rig, if anyone can offer any insight -- why this design? What is the advantage?

Could it have been a factor in the incident? Was Mikhail entangled in his lines in the water, or otherwise unable to cut away? There must have been some reason why he could not swim to shore.

I won't imply that his rig didn't have anything to do with it (it may have, I wasn't there), but even without a rig; swimming 30 meters in water that is 4 degrees Celcius (39 Fahrenheit) while wearing clothes and boots kills very easily.

I heard somewhere in some first aid class or maybe it was my EMT class I don't remember.

50 degree water, 50 yards, 50/50 chance you'll make it.

It seems a bit hard to believe but maybe it is true with full clothing, who knows.

Anyone else heard something like this?

Been there

Water was about the same temp. I landed maybe 30 meters from the edge. I considered myself a fairly strong swimmer. I was amazed at how fast my body began to shut down! If not for my ground crew throwing me a life line, and dragging me out, don't think I would have been able to make it to shore

Navy Dive School - hell week swimming pool water was pumped through a chiller to stay at 53 degrees (12C). The purpose was to onset mild hypothermia to create a stress environment. Immersion hypothermia takes heat from you at 5+ times the rate of air.

Unless you were actively finning (and these were some very fit young bucks) you began shivering within a minute or so. The shivering was uncontrollable within 5. At 10 you lost control of your bladder and started to see the wizard.

That was with swim trunks, a t-shirt, and scuba tanks on - not a rig and layers of clothing.

Mikhail, God bless him, had very little chance if any at all judging from the reports. Just some shitty circumstances. It had to be horrifying.

That is some cold water. I had a Human Factors Engineering course in college and I remember the professor saying the same thing. At that temperature, your heat is wicked out of you body too fast for you to replace it. I believe at temps a little higher than this, you are better off not to swim but to just float until help gets to you.

I wish condolences to family and friends.

This reminds me of Jason Krieg's death, when he and Bruce Cyphers were doing CRW during winter in strong upper winds and landed in a lake 200 yards from shore. The water temperature was almost identical (42F ~ 5 C). Bruce was wearing a wetsuit and survived but Jason wasn't. Perhaps people who are jumping in similar situations might like to consider wearing a wetsuit.

BSBD

Or not jump.
take care,
space

Not while skydiving, but I had a scare with cold water once. On a camping trip, got up in the morning, put on the coffee, and decided to do a morning swim across the pond next to our site. I knew the water was cold but thought "I'll only be in it for a short bit."

Huge and nearly fatal mistake. I ran down the bank and dove in. 1st thought was that it was damn cold, but again, the thinking was "I am young, strong, and this won't last long." Unfortunately I had also misjudged the distnace and was way wrong about how long it was going to take.

I was about half-way across (wouldn't you know) when I began to realize how much trouble I was in. I was shivering uncontrolably and in real pain. I started to feel numb, but just kept moving. I kept saying to myself "Keep moving, do not stop, just keep moving." I actually closed my eyes so that I wouldn't be constantly reminded of how far away the shore and was and kinda allowed myself to become hypnotized by the words in my head.

I was barely moving through the water, but still going forward, in this trance-like state with the words going over and over in my head; keep moving, keep moving, keep moving.

Obviously, I made it, and it was the most exhausted I have ever been in my life; no doubt and by far. I just collapsed into a quivering ball of shivers and was just cursing at myself for being so stupid. I really don't know how I did it, force of will was the deciding factor because I really felt like I was slipping away towards the end of the crossing. It actually went thru my head on how it was going to feel to drown. Very scary.

I took the footpath around the pond and back to camp.

I fell in the Nantahala River, which is barely even a rapid, while dorking around during a very early spring canoe trip. The guide later estimated the water temp at 40F. When I hit the water, my diaphragm almost immediately contracted such that I could barely breathe. My life vest kept my head out of the water. I was thrown a rope and pulled to a canoe, but within just the couple of minutes that took I was too weak to help the two people in that canoe pull me in. They had to tow me to shore, where they built a fire to dry me out and warm me up as I was showing signs of hypothermia. I was wearing a shorty wetsuit that was dry when I went in with a wool sweater and jeans over it. Really cold water does really bad things really fast.

Brent

Isn't there cold water training to alleviate the dramatic effects of exposure to the cold? I recall that there is such biological training when I was trying to plan for participation in an arctic expedition. From what I recall, it retrains the blood system to minimize blood flow to the limbs and concentrate the blood flow to the chest organs.

Yes...

Mammilian Diving Reflex

Specifically peripheral vasoconstriction.

But it takes years to master - and is independant of immersion hypothermia.

Now the reason frostbite occurs in air is due to the body's natural peripheral vasocontriction in rescue mode, but again - in cold water - all bets are off. You're screwed.

Quote
[The rig he was jumping is a Paraavis Beast -- you can see that it has two cutaway handles, one for each riser, for no reason that I can comprehend. I don't know if it was of any consequence in this incident.]

I don't know if this relates to his BASE rigg or not but I used to jump military riggs that had an option to cut away a single riser.

The right handle cut away the right riser only.

The left handle was a single operating system.
The first part of the pull cut both risers the second half of the pull fired the reserve.

It was a very simple system all you had to do to get off the main was pull the left handle.

It also had the advantage that on the DZ or in the water you could release one riser and instantly deflate the canopy with out losing it or risking the RSL kicking in. I have swum with it and it was quite normal to cut one riser on entering the water.

I am sure we have lost at least two other jumpers to water due to being dragged into moving water by canopies they were tiring to save or couldn't cut.

Only knowing what is posted here, I'm sure cold was the major factor but if you do not cur away you canopy on entering the water it will re-inflate with water the same way it does with air and you will go no where when you swim.

My advice on entering water with a canopy is cut it away and get a little separation. Swim around to the PC and tow it by the bridle. This makes sure the canopy does not re-inflate and keeps your legs clear of all the line.

As I said I don’t know if any of this affected the incident.

it actually works better if you tow by tail pocket. keeps the water out

towing by the bridle does not tend to inflate the canopy

towing by the tailpocket is better


A very experienced jumper told me this is how to deal with a deep water landing:

1 - flare at normal height if you can tell for sure how far the water is, otherwise flare when your feet touch the water (you don't always know exactly how deep it is, so flare)

2 - keep your toggles

3 - release the canopy by pulling the cutaway handle and clear the risers if need be

4 - transfer one toggle to the other hand so both are in one hand now, or drop one toggle and hang onto the other one

5 - swim while dragging the canopy by one or both toggles

6 - your canopy is worth less than your life, so if you are not 100% confident you are making it out of the water safely, leave the canopy and save yourself first

(I have added a few points, hopefully he agrees they are worthwhile.)

pulling the canopy by the toggle/s pulls it along by the brakelines, which will in no way inflate the canopy with water and offer the least amount of drag

also swimming with the toggle/s in one hand allows you the best freedom of movement to swim

caveat - I believe this method is based on jumping mostly slider off, I am not sure if using this slider-up will be as effective because it might be possible the slider can entangle with the risers/lines/etc and cause the canopy to be dragged by points other than just the brakeline attacments

if anyone knows for sure, please chime in


I'm sure just about everyone knows this already, but the fatter you are the longer you will survive in cold water. You will also float far better than a skinny person and within reason a certain amount of fat makes you a stronger swimmer because you are more bouyant.

The leaner you are the less time you have. You will also be less bouyant and therefore will have to work harder to stay above the surface.

It's good to know how your body type reacts differently to the norm in many situations.


I am sorry we lost another brother.

I felt that there were too many wrong points by your post to quote them in one lump sum. So I decided to just correct them in my opinion. one at a time.

a. "towing by the bridle does not tend to inflate the canopy"

Towing by the the bridle leads to an inflated PC which sux big time swimming. If I am not mistaken a 36" holds about 40lbs of water which one could relate to 40lbs of holdback whilst swimming.

b. "towing by the tailpocket is better"

Not when one has a PC on a bridle attached and the PC inflates in the water. A PC is by design an anchor.

1 - flare at normal height if you can tell for sure how far the water is, otherwise flare when your feet touch the water (you don't always know exactly how deep it is, so flare) "

space adds a previous quote.

"A very experienced jumper told me this is how to deal with a deep water landing"

If you know it's deep then this is bs.

2 - keep your toggles.

pointless, what does one need them for?

3 - release the canopy by pulling the cutaway handle and clear the risers if need be.

Pointless unless one is getting drug by winds or current. better to loosen the chestrap and slip out of the rig.

4 - transfer one toggle to the other hand so both are in one hand now, or drop one toggle and hang onto the other one

Not when one has a PC on a bridle attached and the PC inflates in the water. A PC is by design an anchor.

5 - swim while dragging the canopy by one or both toggles

Not when one has a PC on a bridle attached and the PC inflates in the water. A PC is by design an anchor.

6 - your canopy is worth less than your life, so if you are not 100% confident you are making it out of the water safely, leave the canopy and save yourself first

duh!
you wrote:

(I have added a few points, hopefully he agrees they are worthwhile.)

aa.pulling the canopy by the toggle/s pulls it along by the brakelines, which will in no way inflate the canopy with water and offer the least amount of drag

Not when one has a PC on a bridle attached and the PC inflates in the water. A PC is by design an anchor.

bb.also swimming with the toggle/s in one hand allows you the best freedom of movement to swim
Not when one has a PC on a bridle attached and the PC inflates in the water. A PC is by design an anchor.

cc.but the fatter you are the longer you will survive in cold water.

If one puts his faith in this on whether to jump or not, I feel he is out of touch.
take care and open to replies.
space

Condolences to family and friends.

Space

Let me get this straight. Are you impying that a pilot-chute, due to it's inherent nature, inflates in the water and ,as such, acts like some kind of anchor????

Please clarify.


On a serious note, condolences to all affected. Very tragic.

Very very sad. But upon debating this one for awhile - it would be (i think) very beneficial to know the jumpers experience both skydiving and BASE (time and jump #s)

thank you !

Just curious. So how do certain people do stuff like this? >Dec. 20 2005
On the anniversary of Norwegian explorer Roald Amundsen reaching the south pole, British swimmer Lewis Gordon Pugh has plunged into the icy waters off the antarctic peninsula to smash the world record for the most southern long distance swim ever undertaken. Wearing only Speedo trunks, goggles and a swimming cap, Lewis swam 1 kilometre (0.6 Miles) in 0°c (32°f) water.

I was trying to imply that there should be a BML (Body Mass Limit) put on PC's in the water landing PCs.
My apologies for hijacking this thread. I wish Tom would split this off. I do have quite a bit of experience with water landings.
take care,
space

OK, so I forgot to mention that in all these cases you should have the PC in your hand also.

It really is common sense and so instictive that I totally forgot to write it down, as it requires no real thought.

thanks for the correction, you are of course right about the PC

There is a prof at one of the Canadian universities in the prairies, do not remember which exactly, doing research on hypothermia. He was at the Letterman's show and demonstrated jumping into ice cold water in a tank on a side street, close to the theatre. He stayed there for half an hour or so.

He said that there was a "one ten one" rule for surviwal in cold water: One minute to bring breathing under control, ten minutes for meaningful action and one hour for survival - if your body is supported

My condolences to all involved...
BSBD!

It was the University of Manitoba. Here are some links to a couple articles on him and his research if anyone wants to learn more:

http://outside.away.com/...popsicle_splash.html

http://www.umanitoba.ca/...ple/giesbrecht.shtml

Our hearts and prayers go out to family and friends.
Katya and Alan