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I know this has probably been talked about 3 million times I'm just too lazy to go back and find the thread. Just curious though what everyone thinks on this, and also how many people are filthy cheaters. Can't wait to get the hateful responses.

BTW....just kidding about my harsh opinions on what actually constitutes a building....just curious really.

No really ..... you should be ashamed of yourself.
A smoke stack is a damn smoke stack...if it wasn't it would be called a building.

Same thing goes for "Grain Elevators" people, and you know who I'm talkin to!

Come visit and I'll show you one.

And IMO it also has to be occupied on a regular basis to count as a true B. Technically there is a smokestack that fits this definition, since there was an office with all the amenities 1/2 way up the thing.

what about a massive concrete structure that people live in....? where's that option? that's a b!!!

smoke stacks rock........ but their turbulance is minimal...

>>A smoke stack is a damn smoke stack...if it wasn't it would be called a building<<

For purposes of a BASE award here's the classic definition.

If the wind blows around it, it's a Building.

If the wind blow through it, it' an Antenna

If the wind blows underneath it, it's a Span

If the wind blows over it, it's an Earth

Using the above a dam is an Earth jump and a smoke stack is a Building.

>>And IMO it also has to be occupied on a regular basis to count as a true B.<<

What bullshit! You guys kill me, whata do, just fucking make it up as you go along?

There was a bankrupt skyscraper in Florida that was never occupied and we jumped it a lot. What that not a building? How about all the other buildings I've jumped that weren't even finished being built yet . . . ? ? ?

NickD
BASE 194

Chill man. And yeah, the people I jump with pretty much make it up as we go along. I haven't logged in 100 jumps or so, so it doesn't really effect me anyways, which is why I voted that I don't care. My comment was mainly a dig on a buddy who just got his BASE number (and 'B') after hitting an abandoned B.

Btw the hug I got from you at BD05 was A+ quality, would definitely hug again! Now let's see if you can remember me

To everyone: Spend less time worrying about crap like this and more time looking at cute animal pictures!

:-)
I liked the abandoned B! You need to take a trip with me sometime and jump it.

And personally, not that I really care, but if it looks like a building, it's a building(to me). I'd write down a smokestack as an O, but then again, I also haven't logged in quite a while either, so who cares.

Hey TJ, where'd ya get that picture? From your screensaver collection I'm guessing!
Have fun with Dog the bounty hunter and the variety of gone wild commercials over the next few weeks

Nathan

That's not a cute animal picture. That's creepy. Looks like the queer eye guys got ahold of the beastmasters ferrets.

I go with "if wind blows around it" or "if it was meant to be a building". Though if the structure is mean/is a smokestack - I would log it as such. Of course that may be because I logged my B before jumping a stack :)

BTW, what Nate jumped was an actual building. It was occupied for along time. Plus it only has 14 floors.

Damnit,I have a thing arround here which i thourght were an A,Now ill need to rewrite my logs
I would need to caal a gastowr a Anetnna etc etc

A Building is a building
A Antenna is a Antenna
A Span is a bridge
A Cliff is earth
Anything else has names aswell.Just call it what ever it is.. Its not about the names but about the fun we has while jumping the thing..

Some times old shcool need to be updated,its called the new age

The SkinFlicka "ask a 5 year old" method seems to work best for this question....

Otherwise, in your heart you will know what a B is, what an A is, what an S is, what an E is, and what an O is....

in the end you only end up cheating yourself.... so who gives a shit if someone wants to claim an O as a B... deep down they will know the truth, as will the 5 year old who says "bulshit" to them...

if it is generally occupied or could be occupied, it's a building. who lives on an arial (antenna), span, or cliff?

An occupied lighthouse? To me that would log as an O...


edit to add: fffuck I must be bored at work to enter into this time old question

I'd love to live on a cliff.

I always figured when they came up with the name BASE (Carl, Phil, Jean, I can't remember off the top of my head who else), it was because that coverred everything on earth that you could jump off of.

I like Nicks wind layout idea, but I would consider a damn a B because it was man made.

my thoughts: a smokestack is a B a damn is a B a water tower is an A a power tower is an A a tree is an E a cooling tower is a B, hell a man made hole if lined with concrete would be a B, if lined with earth I'd say an E even though it was man made, it's still earth your jumping from. A man made cliff would be an E to in my book, as long as its not coverred with materials we put there.

As far as logging purposes and BASE# purposes I could see where everyone is coming from though.

So does that mean that a water tower is an antenna?
What about a scaffolding or a tree?

Here are several definitions of a building:

Meaning of ``building''---(1) In this Act, unless the context
otherwise requires, the term ``building'' means any temporary or
permanent movable or immovable structure (including any structure
intended for occupation by people, animals, machinery, or chattels); and
includes any mechanical, electrical, or other system, and any utility
systems, attached to and forming part of the structure whose proper
operation is necessary for compliance with the building code; but does
not include---
(a) Systems owned or operated by a network utility operator for the
purpose of reticulation of other property; or
(b) Cranes
Boilers, Lifts, and Cranes Act 1950, whether or not attached to
any other structure; or
(c) Cablecars, cableways, ski tows, and other similar stand-alone
machinery systems, whether or not incorporated within any other
structure; or
(d) Ships as defined in section 2 (1) of the Shipping and Seaman Act
1952, other than permanently moored houseboats; or
(e) Vehicles and motor vehicles;
or
(f) Containers as defined in section 2 of the Dangerous Goods Act
1974; or
(g) Magazines as defined in section 2 of the Explosives Act 1957; or
(h) Scaffolding used in the course of the construction process; or
(i) Falsework used in the course of the construction process.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
S: (n) building, edifice (a structure that has a roof and walls and stands more or less permanently in one place)

------------------------------------------------------------
In architecture, construction, and real estate development the word building may refer to the following:

1. Any man-made structure used or intended for supporting or sheltering any use or continuous occupancy

To differentiate buildings and other structures that are not intended for continuous human occupancy, the latter are called NONBUILDING STRUCTURES.
-----------------------------------------------------------

Okay, so according to the definitions of a building, a smoke stack would be considered a building....but, because it is not intended for human occupancy, it is classified as a nonbuilding structure.

So...a smoke stack is a STRUCTURE.

>>Some times old shcool need to be updated,its called the new age<<

The point of the OP was how objects relate to the BASE award and he said . . .

>>Just curious though what everyone thinks on this, and also how many people are filthy cheaters.<<

Sometimes new school needs to get their heads out of their asses and learn how to comprehend what they read . . .

In reality a 300-foot Sequoia tree is a tree.

But, if you use it to put in for BASE number it's an Antenna.

What's so hard to understand?

NickD
BASE 194

Read Phil Smith's article, "Gimme a B, Gimme an A, Gimme an S, Gimme an E!" in BASELINE magazine.

Totem poles are in the classification, as well as trees, as well as ferris wheels, and roller coasters

If the wind blows around it, it's a ==>building

Forget it, brother. When BASELINE was in circulation most of these people were still crapping their diapers . . .

NickD
BASE 194

so with the O category added, we'll have to change BASE to EBOSA.


signed
BASESTFWGHUJDXVNOPLC 460

>>So does that mean that a water tower is an antenna? What about a scaffolding?
Here are several definitions of a building:<<

Okay, I'll try once more and give up.

Of course there are exceptions in the real world but Carl Boenish distilled all the possible objects into the four categories so we could use the acronym BASE as a basis for the sequential numbered award. If not we have something like . . .

NickD
BASESTFWGHUJDXVNOPLC 194

Of course, you also thought lift was bad for flying.

chill out old dude you might get a heart attack

What i were saying were that people shouldnt just look black n white..

The oldshool vs new age were a joke sorry you miseed my pointe..

But dont worry i hope to never be a oldshool,i dont want to point fingers and tell people how it is.. as i learned there were no rules in BASE,but that has changed..

Nah it aint that difficult.. I just wouldnt place a tree as a quallifying object..
As oldshool you should see the challenged in getting the right objects as quallifying,instead of jumping

Chimney=B
Gasstower=A
That big tower in Paris(between the legs on the inside=S
Dam=E

Personaly i would Quallify all the above objects as Special or Other or actualy as they are..And would never even as it might would be cool,use them as Quallifying objects.. but thats my respect to the #´s is that so hard to understand?

Oh and we new shool might wear dipers as you were young,but your getting the age were you might need it again and the rest of us aint using it anymore

Well phrased personal attack (of course I don't think you should be banned for it)!

If you try I'm sure you can understand what I meant and that is if you're moving down lift would = horizontal movement that's good, but if your moving horizontal lift would be negative vertical speed, and since you got no jets to keep you moving horizontal that wouldn't be good. I'm really tired, hopefully that makes sense.

That big circular thing we climbed inside of and breathed asbestos fibers was a smokestack.

That big thing that you took your prom date to to pork her was a B. An abandoned one but still a B.

I think that this is the point that the original post was trying to make. Qualifying for your BASE # should be just that!...Jumping the objects which make up the acronym. We all know what BASE stands for. Part of the challenge of getting your BASE # should be jumping all of these specific objects, rather than jumping other things and saying that they are something that they are not, just to get your #. Nothing about BASE jumping changes just b/c objects that don't fit into one of the original categories are jumped...That just makes it even better, right?

apparently not...

sad.

"BASE" was defined by Carl B.
NickDG reminded us of the original definition.

BASE numbers are assigned based on claims, not documented, photographed evidence. it is an honor system. thus people have chosen to redefine "BASE" as they see fit.

as an honor system, there seems little point in lawyering it to death...

I have to agree with this some what.....

Getting a number because you class your chimney / Grain Silo / concrete tower / dam as a B, well, in your heart you know whats right or wrong...

Hey BASE Folks:

Surprise Surprise, the correct answer is nearly ALL OF THE ABOVE. It does involve the Honor System since We rarely ask for proof of any jump. There are many right answers as to what is a B, A S or E. I knew and jumped with Carl. Smitty and I were the closest jump friends here in Houston from 82 to 87. I was the last elected Ex. Dir. of USBA after Carl died so I know the history of all of the theories. Carl did try to find a way to fit all objects in one of the 4 categories. It was the idea of BASE representing in one word , all fixed objects based mostly on the unique hazards of the objects. I use the same philosophy. That is where the wind thing came from since wind is our main enemy that is different with each of the categories. Joy and I operate on trust and the honor system. If a jumper wants to count a big smokestack wth the same wind and 180 opening problems as a B, then it's a B. If it is a real B but is unoccupied, it is still a B since it is the same hazards, The main difference an occupied downtown B represents is the arrest scare factor. That is an added rush after the escape, but it doesn't mean a vacant building is not a good B, it is. I must admit, my most memorable Buildings were downtown skyscrapers involving outwitting security and making a clean escape. An added rush I wish we didn't have to endure but Smitty and I always shook hands twice. First after we landed unhurt and second, after we got on the road and escaped.
For all jumps, we look at the relative hazard and are flexible with the category if it's reasonable. Most jumpers actually wait until they get all 4 righteous objects.
Personally, I believe you should do a real skyscraper, even a short one with people, guards, and downtown to get the true thrill of a real B, and several folks I've encouraged to do so thanked me when they did. It's a real rush. Most Whuffos know what a Building is. After you do it you will know for sure.

Dams. are Earth jumps even if occupied since they present the same wind and object strike hazards as an E. Many things can be towers, including smokestacks. But if you want the real rush, do a real antenna with wires at night. They make a huge psychological and real hazard on a dark night over smokestacks or free standing towers. We'll count the others, but when you do the real thing, youre gut will know.
Keep Celebrating the Human Spirit!!!
Rick Harrison
Cliffleaper
BASE 38

 

Hmmmmm....

Hey Rick and Yoy
As you say people should try the real stuff,At least thats how i feel it..

Im not telling people right or wrong i tell what i think..

I did all my 4 objects on real basis(well not sure if the 240ft B were a skyscraber) I got a satisfaction after i jumped the objects and could truly say that i jumped them.

To me a Dam can NEVER be an E,E is earth,no human can make that..
But a Dam is a cool thing to jump,personaly i log it as a dam.. I think it need its own place of respect instead of calling it a E or B.

But thats me

Ps atleast i can tell from ALL my jumps the dif if it were a B or a chimney i jumped

just out of interest... who did get you your B and E

I did myself,the video clearly shows me standing alone on top of both objects,but thanks for sharing the objects,its sure i wouldnt have got my # before alot later if it wasnt for your help..

Your done wanking yourself by now?
Perhaps you can show me a UK S then(perhaps the one we visited?,im ready now..I know it will be my lowest so far but i think its doable) So i can get my UK BASE#(bummer think they dont do them anymore..)

Hi Faber. Thanks for your comments and I can appreciate that earths are not man made until people guys in Indiana and other States started jumping quaries. Rightous. Anyway, we try to fit things in the original 4 categories, but when a few of us jumped a train, we were kidding about either HOBO BASE or BASET. We decided to log it as a Span. Anyway, we're pretty liberal but you are right, it's best to feel a real big cliff and a nice real building.
Rick H.

Hope this posts as Cliffleaper and not Joy. Tom was pimping me about re registering and I did it, hopefully.
Cliffleaper.

_________________________________________________

chill out old dude you might get a heart attack

What i were saying were that people shouldnt just look black n white..

The oldshool vs new age were a joke sorry you miseed my pointe..

But dont worry i hope to never be a oldshool
_________________________________________________

I think you should eagerly anticipate some of the advantages that come with age.

I was a very rude and disrespectful young man. My offensive manners made it appear that my parents had no idea how to raise children properly. I'm glad I outgrew that.

Becourse you say your oppinions dosnt mean your rude.

Infact if you get the age were you cant learn from any age in this sport then it might be time to quit...

I truly belive that Nick is of the same belif.
We were dissussing 2 aspects of the acronym,even as i agree in what Nick says about the 4 object im also sure he think im correct in some of what im saying Its called respect and understanding from both sides..

If this sport were black white and evrything the oldshool said were the law,i has to say im out of it(atleast this public part).
The day a 17year old whith 50 jumps under his belt telling me to consern about certain things and im just ignoring what he/she tells me,that day i have become too old and no longer has the right mind to stay in this sport.

Well i guess it depend,if what you said truly were correct are you then still happy that you outgrew that?

We has to respect our elders as they should respect us..If either side dosnt we has nothing together...

oh and you should treat people in a way you expect people to treat you..

I have said nothing in this tread that i wouldnt say up front to any in this tread,as i expect them to be abel to tell me the same up front aswell..

my own personal definition of a B is...its got floors,doors and windows it has streets around it and all the associated urban hazards to go with it. It is a place where 'the man' is more prevalent than your average smoke stacks and grain silos...its a place where you will have all the urges to walk down,quit jumping,piss your pants or worse,call your loved ones and probably improve your quality of life..someplace you expect the super unexpected curve ball is gonna bite your ass and usually does...

i guess if you need to ask if its a B it probably isnt one...

just my one pence (thats two american cents)

_________________________________________________

Fair point,i however tell people what i think as i expect them to tell me the same.

So beeing brain-dead stupied on a exitpoint wont make you chim in? I would tell no matter who it is what i think about their actions if i dont think its a good idea.. hopefule some day it can save some one..
And if i happen to do somthing wrong i expect my buddys to tell me so if they see it aswell.

Well i cant have a oppinion about Nick having a heart attack can i?
Please read the blackhumor/sarcasm/joke at a to me old fella..


first off i dont understand all the words so sorry if i dont read that right..

I can see no link between Nicks BASELINE magazine(which i never saw) and i cant see what his effort in informing BASEpeople years back has to do whith todays post..

Please help me to see that..

Funny thing is that here on the boards i see Americans asking for respect for their elders,i never saw such a thing in real life specialy not in US,but i only had one trip so far so thats might why..

Respect only works both ways,I do belive Nick respect the new onese and i do respect him,i dont think his more than any of my jump buddyes,but neither do i think about J## C. ,i respect him from what his doing,i know his respect to other BASEjumpers as equal(as i see it).

well more than that lets take it to pm or mail,no need to spam this board more than this.
Atleast thats my oppinion

What about a 320' mobile digging shovel complete with offices, sleeping quarters, lunch rooms, toilets and a gift shop?? Must be a building then eh??

I'm with Sean621 on this - if you gotta ask then it probably 'aint. But if you persevere I'm sure you'll eventually find someone who will agree and give the answer you wanna hear so you can feel justified in logging that "B" or whatever.

If it quacks like a duck then it's probably a duck.... but if it moos like a cow then is 'aint no duck!

Go figure.

g.

thats one badass looking piece of kit...id say a very gnarly A

If it climbs like a hippo, lands like a hippo and smells like a hippo- then it's a hippo!
DTM.

That's fuckin sweet bro!

Remember when hot air balloons looked like balloons?

The question of, "What's a building," will be academic soon.

Here's the future . . . and just imagine the possibilities . . .

http://www.ironicsans.com/..._shaped_like_go.html

NickD
BASE 194

I'd log that as an O with a footnote that i just jumped a monster machine....and i'd be proud to say it didn't fit into any freaking category. B's are ten a penny, that is unique.

As for a previous poster's classification of a dam, a smokestack and a water tower as a building............................WHATEVER deperado!!!

Oh, and when it comes to the Wind definition, it doesn't work. A building under-construction with just the poured floors in lets wind blow through it like an antenna, and there are many solid antennas where the wind blows around them.

The best way to classify an object is to ask a non jumper or go with how you would describe it to a non jumper without thinking. At least you maintain your integrity if you do that.

Imagine an horizon with a variety of objects at varying distances. There's an tall office block, a smokestack, and dam in the far distance. You have only jumped the dam. Would you say to your friend -

"i jumped that building over there" If yes, would he be thinking about the correct object?

If it's ambiguous then it lacks integrity.

ian

it just seems wrong to accept Carl's vision, Carl's name, blatantly defy his definition, and yet claim you have "integrity."

Huh? If I smack the side of a B, my body won't give a damn if people live in it, work in it, or if it's being remodeled. A B is a B because of the unique hazards they represent (winds, solid object, urban landing area with associated hazards)

In the end, geting busted is a mere inconvience to yourself and fellow jumpers...it is in no way a matter of life or death.

Hello Gary,
Fuck all this nonsense about what it is, please just tell me where it is!

[reply
it just seems wrong to accept Carl's vision, Carl's name, blatantly defy his definition, and yet claim you have "integrity."
Listen to you. What utter gushing rubbish. Let me clarify. I am not defying Carl's wind definition. The objects are.

Wind blows 'THROUGH' a building under construction. Does that make it an antenna? The wind blows around a skinned antenna, does that make it a building? If the answer to either is NO, then congratulations......you've just taken a big bold step into thinking for yourself and questioning a system which crowbars the whacky and somewhat unconventional world of tall objects into 4 convenient categories for the sole purpose of a readable and catchy acronym.

I can see my heresy of popping all objects which don't righteously fit into the four categories B.A.S. & E. into a further general category of O has really shook your world, and the pedestal you have placed Carl on, to their very foundations.

Integrity. I can only assume we've run into problems with the definition here. You've plumped for 'adherence' but i've gone for 'honesty'.

you misrepresent my views...
as no one has come up with a clean, non-controversial way to classify ALL objects as a "B," "A," "S," or an "E," then I'll see no reason to change the heritage. I don't claim to be a BASEO jumper afterall...

since there is so much disagreement, and lack of consensus, claiming "integrity" seems odd. it appears to be a device to raise and elevate you above the masses, to establish your rank in the pack.

as I mentioned up board...

the key should be the skills and knowledge required to jump a particular object, not how you classify it!

have fun, be safe, and land with an ear to ear grin!

p.s.
as for me,

-jumping from the structural steel of a building under construction does NOT feel like a "B."

-jumping from a giant tv antenna with an observation platform such as one of the various concrete "needles" or "towers" does NOT feel like an "A."

Like i said, integrity in this context meant 'honesty' and to the 'masses' you refer to, nothing would be odder or more dishonest than pointing to that excavating machine posted by Gary above and talking of it as a building or antenna when patently it is neither. It is an object 'other than' a B.A.S. or E. and by accepting that, I think it protects the heritage you speak of by closing the door to ridicule and esoteric wranglings.


ian

but who ever engages in such "esoteric wranglings?"
ridicule? from who?
it only seems to happen amongst fellow jumpers.

as I approach an object, all I care is if we CAN jump it. does everyone wishing to jump have sufficient skill and appropriate equipment? (am I the weak link?)

as I spell BASE with 4 letters, I'll squeeze every object into one of 4 categories. if it does not fit well, oh well. if someone else chooses to do it differently, so be it.

how anyone will log an object never really comes up...
if it does not matter to Joy & Rick, it does not matter to me.

use of the term "integrity" indicates it matters to you. doesn't that lead to the "esoteric wrangling" and "ridicule?"

That old forum chestnut.... It seems to matter to you but i don't care routine.....I'm easy......honest.......why you getting so wound up.....zzzzzzzz

If you didn't give a hoot we wouldn't be having this debate so it is something you care about and it is something you discuss with others.

And naturally i'm talking amongst jumpers and their interested associates. Who else is going to debate this. Next doors cleaner?

You spoke of heritage so I assumed you did think integrity mattered, because i can not understand why you would fly that flag if it's credibility was something you couldn't care less about.

This is, of course, going nowhere fast. As Gershwin kind of wrote "You say potato, I say potahto....You say antenna, I say construction crane. Let's call the whole thing off."

Did you guys see www.BASEJumpIreland.com ?

He jumps a crane in a ship yard and claims it as a "B"

I like the 6 year old explanation.... You know a kid isn't going to call a cran a "B".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQM-r79emf8


Not a B in my book!


A Damn would be more like an "E" and a Crane like that one is more like an "S" to me.

If a crane is on top of a "B" I would still call it a "B".

Just like how I would consider a power tower/plyon or a water tower an "A"

DBR

What if there is an A on top of a B?

I saw this on a recent road trip and because of this thread, I snapped a couple pics.

My vote is an: 'A on a B'

Access would be like a B, exit like an A and wind on exit like an A, but wind under canopy like a B. Thought it was cool anyways.

Andrew

You need to look up the definition of building dude. The grain elevators around here are inside four concrete walls with a flat concrete roof. They also contain offices and other rooms within the same confines. Please explain what part of your definition this does not fit.
321CYA
Sitflybaseboy

Then why did you just call them grain elevators, instead of buildings. You just made my point. I don't actually care what you wan't a building to be.

And judging by your sweet list of: Ar. Night Naked BASE jumping with a Kazoo #1, you must really need to call them B's. Have at it bro, just funnin ya.....

What is Ar. BASE?

So a house, Wal Mart, or Trump Tower are not buildings either, by your definition. I don't care what you call a building either.
And BTW I'm gettin my naked kazoo BASE soon. Thanks for the idea. Not much to BASE here, so you take what you can get. Come down sometime, and we will help you get your naked kazoo BASE!
321CYA
Sitflybaseboy

All four objects in Arkansas

children, children, keep in mind that as we have discussed before, my imaginary freind is cooler than all of yours. so, get over it.

Yeeehaw, dude. Thank's for getting the humour. We have a local GE and I like to kid my peeps for using it as thier B. I KNOW IT"S A DAMNED B! Whatever...... Would love to come and do some rock climbing in Arkansas, and that other thing as well.

Future Ar. Naked Kazoo BASE#1

test: does this forum replace the words 'rock climbing' with the link automatically or do people just keep doing that on their own?

edit: fuckin' a it does... sorry about the useless post...

Sweet! I guess I'll have to be #2
There is actually suppose to be some decent spots here to rock climb, but I've never done any, other than climbing to an exit point or out of a landing area.
I've gotta go to Wal Mart tonight and get a kazoo so i can get a head start on you. Maybe I can still get #1.
321CYA
Sitflybaseboy

See here.

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