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what do you think about freefalling 170'?
let me know

pana

I've seen a guy do it multiple times. He posts on here so maybe he'll chime in. He would stand on the exit point and throw his PC upward as he left the object. He did it about 12 times if I remember and had one off-heading. The canopy ride was about 5sec. I've got video and if I hear from him I'll post it somewhere.

Tony

It's doable. But if there is any sort of hesitation, you're dead.

Exactly.

Adjust your exit and pitch technique to minimize the chance of hesitation. Pre-inflating your PC (holding it by the bridle attachment and "lofting" it upward in an already inflated position) can help greatly reduce the chance of a hesitation.

Before I tried a freefall under 200' for the first time, I set a video camera up on a tripod and made around a hundred (seriously) practice exit-and-pitches from about 6' into a foam pit. My goal was to have the PC inflated and pulling consistently by the time it (the PC) reached the exit point.

DW threw a double gainer from about the same altitude. There is a world of possibilities out there.

he did a double gainer from a 240ft bridge in oz, and had about 2ish second canopy ride, I'd like to see it footage of him doing it lower then 200ft

I believe its on the Beyond Extreme video... and I think it was 186ft

http://miller28.server101.com/...s/messages/3/442.jpg
http://miller28.server101.com/...s/messages/3/443.jpg
http://miller28.server101.com/...s/messages/3/444.jpg
Pictures linked from the ABA Site

Mac's right it was a double from a popular 186ft in Australia

edit to add - people freefall this object fairly often with no problem, a good solid pitch out and upward is the key in my opinion.

PM me if you need some first person footage.

And maybe because theres water beneath? Not so hard to hit, if the shute opens just a little bit late. Landings that may have resulted in broken bones on hard ground, may not in water..

we are both sketchballs.

also true and not only is there water, there is also nice sand

The water under said bridge is not deep at all, maybe 6 ft at it's deepest point (though not even that deep I'm sure)... Still better than landing on rock though

Have seen good freefalls from it with lots of canopy time (5+ sec), and one uber scary ff with less than a second

I believe (second hand) that DW did a single gainer from 156 or 165 (dyslexic sorry) over solid ground somewhere in the PNW.

ahhkies this wasn't the bridge I was thinking of, doing it off the bridge in the pic is insane,
the other bridge I was thinking of I'm pretty sure is 240ft

I'd love to see video footage of this jump from the ground.
if you have any feel free to pm to it to me and I'll keep it out of the public domain

The owner of that footage is a regular on this forum. Why not ask him if it's ok with him?

DW did many FF's from the 156', but never an aerial.

So, am I correct here, they did a 2-way off a 186' bridge, both of them stowed? Did the camera guy land in the water?

Is it me or is that impressive (never mind just the double gainer)?

If I remember correctly, the camera guy was handheld, and only DW landed in the water. As noted above, though, the cameraman posts to these forums, so I'm sure he can step in and correct any errors in our collective account of his jump.

my impression was the forum commentor also had footage, and possibly a ground view so I'd like to see that where as the camera man seemed to be jumping with dwain
so I thought I'd ask away

I think you may have misunderstood my original post. The footage i was referring to was not footage of Dwain but other jumpers.

if you do it over hard ground you gonna get a few broken bones if you do it regulary.

Also note that its a different ball game than freefalling 200+ft,you should know how to config your gear,you need to improve the way you through your pc and the way you exit to get the best result=no injury or death...

Other than that it can be done..

its a lazy sport

I guess he could..

DW did a double stowed. At the time is was the lowest double on the planet. He performed a single a little while before this. He also completed a number of reverse floater static lines on this bridge. There was a lot of the pre-jump prep & psych that most people don't see or seem to appreciate. Apparently he just used to turn up and ad lib the jump whilst in freefall.

Reality is that he prepped a hell of a lot.

When he reached for his p/c, he had a miss/fumble initially and was lightning fast in rectifying the problem. Most other mortal beings would have missed the 2nd attempt.

I jumped p/c in hand with a modified skydiving rig (S18 + crappy Fury). Not recommended!!!!

There were three camera angles, some fat ugly guy doing freefall camera with DW, PA doing side on half way down the bridge, and one from the top. We both deployed very close to each other (as we had on many occasions) and I performed a partial rotation on DW during the latter stages of deployment as I was directly above him with a higher descent rate. We did this an quite a few jumps (CRW deployment is fun but can be a . . . . ) I wanted to try to get both angles of deployment and landing so I deployed above and then stalled the canopy backwards during the latter part of deployment and crashed into the water prior to DW whilst filming him.. We got buried under the water a/c fast descent rate.

If we had of done this on the other side of the S where the sand is, the result would have been either serious injury or death to both of us. There is no doubt about this. The water was chosen for reducing impact forces. It was well calculated and measured/checked beforehand.

The S = 57m. The other S where DW did a double in Oz was 75m (also filmed and appearing on BE).

To the guy who made the comment that the bridge is freefalled regularly, he didn't seem to mention that 3 people have been to hospital with serious back injuries, and the fact that there have been a number of extremely close calls. In this day and age, a reasonable component of the "regulars" that freefall that bridge are skydivers who like to pop down the road and try it. It has become common and acceptable practice. But the problem is, someone will mess up big time one day. You have to get everything virtually perfect each time, otherwise you are shot.

All it is going to take is borrowed gear with wing loading variation (hence an incorrect brake setting) and an imperfect throw of the p/c for someone to break their backs or die on that jump. As I said, three have been to hospital already.

My recollection of the jump is fantastic visuals and heightened emotions. DW was real pleased to walk away from that one.

p.s. from the linked photo's in one of the posts above - "444.jpg", a microsecond after that I kicked DW p/c - his canopy surged forward and I was stalling it behind him. During that photo my canopy was later in the deployment than what you can see of DW in the photo.

Any more copies of BE yet? I need one for Christmas

Me too.

The linked video is of legendary British jumper Dan The Man (DTM) shot by Nick Ridden on the 11 Nov 06 whilst DTM was touring Australia.

This 'span' (186') Freefall completed/earned him his Aussie base number.

The video can be downloaded from here: http://www.basejump.org/video/dtm.WMV

It is less than 500 KB so shouldn't take long to download.

We started calling him a 'dirty high puller' after this one.

Watching from the top it looked very scary as it was over the sand, not the water.

Personally, I could not justify a split second deployment hesitation and the resulting impact and injury. (Long winded way of saying I'm a pussy.)

Respect to DTM, Dwain, Tom B and anyone else with that level of skill and commitment.

Cheers,

Ken

Less time, less mistakes . . .

NickD
BASE 194

Hi Ken

As you said, this is a personal decision. I think your logic is very sound and your outcome (still alive and kicking) confirms this. Well done.

r.e. freefalling over the sand, I had planned to do it as a pioneering effort, but some blond girl () got wind of this and beat me to it. Given that it was already done, I decided that being a sheep was not worth the risk at the time.

I have freefallen the other side over water a few times.

r.e. the attached photo's:
- "ssfrapin" shows what can happen with a hesi / deployment. If the hesi delayed deployment by just one partial second later . . . . . . . anyway, you get the picture.

note that this position is "forward b bending (flexion)" - this is the agent/event/scenario that leads to most spinal injuries in the surf. The other is "Vertical compression". In a deployment hesi on a low pull, you are likley to get an inverse of VC. i.e. natural response is to lift legs which results in initial impact forces on the bottom / coccyx area. This force is then transferred up the spine. The stronger the force the more likely it is to dissipate to upper levels of the spine. The end result is vertabra / spinal cord damage in the upper spine / neck area. There is also possibliy of severe whip lash and/or broken neck (the weight and momentum of the head will force it to keep going downwards when the rest of the body is stopped by the ground - hence the neck will either compres severely. Or if the head is not perfectly in line with the spine and the impact force, then it will bend.

- "dp turn" shows a person who did a 180 turn from exit to deployment on a freefall off the same object - unintentionally. That is just an interesting pic. But it shows how very competent people can stuff up simple things. I have done it. DW has done it. You too can do it!!!!!!

Modern jumpers make the statement that they understand and accept the risks. The reality is that most don't. They have an uneducated perception of what they think the risk is. There is a vast gap between perception and reality for many people.

The other thing is this. Just because the end result of an act is successful, it does not mean by default that it will always remain so. This is exactly the philospohy behind that infamous game called "Russian Roullette". The only thing that changes is the number of bullets and the number of chambers.

Low freefalls over hard earth will contribute to the number of people with quad/para plegia. Possibly death too.

If you keep doing the low freefalls, you are using up those empty chambers. The bullet is coming. If not the next jump, then the one after. If not you, it will be your jumping buddy.

People also have to remember that they are people, prone to errors, mistakes. Keep pulling the trigger and eventually you may turn up with a hesi, or something else.

That is reality.

I am not against low freefalls.

I am opposed to the fact that many people think they are OK for anyone to do and for them to be done on a regular basis.
I have a problem that many people who do them, do so without much understanding.
I have a problem that many people do not have a true understanding of the risks involved, the margin for error, the possible outcomes. It is also concerning that they are led by people with similar attitudes, experience, and understanding. The blind leading the blind.

In the end, Ken says it best when he said he could not justify the possible end result.

That is risk managment.

That is longevity.

That is having respect for your life and the nature of the beast you are playing with.

Think.

Plan.

Act.

Review.

Make the right decision.

Your choice.

Your life.

snigger, snigger. Oh stop it....purleeese.....no more, please no more....

Right on Ken! Us legends have got to stick together!
Wait till i tell my mother that i'm a 'legend,' i think the conversation will probably go:-
"Mother, did you know that i'm a legendary base jumper?"
"Daniel, don't you think you're getting a bit old to be jumping off of buildings in the middle of the night?"
"Yes mother..."

laters.
DTM. (legend.)
Ps.
Good advice from mr TVPB.
Usual bollox from Sabre 210.

You call your mom Mother?

I thought only Norman Bates did that..... Although he was talking to himself I suppose....

My thoughts;

I'd first feel REALLY good about freefalling 180 - 200' multiple times and static lining 140ish feet multi times (to build good canopy control) before thinking about 170' FF's.

Be systematic with your approach to low altitude BASE. Don't rush it. Work down on your altitude slowly. Then you'll figure out your comfort zone.

Just because you colonialists can't spell properly and choose to ignore the Queens English, it does not mean you can . . . . . . . .

For your information, the shorthand version of Mother is Mum, not Mom!!!

Ah Mr Begic,

How refreshing it always is to read the perennial cry of a retired jumper pining for the halcyon days and at the same time disparaging 'modern jumpers' and blowing their own horn. I think it requires significant literary skill to be able to achieve that difficult task.

Sarcasm aside, I wonder what basis you are using to make your rather auspicious claims about the ostensible scourge of ‘modern jumpers’. Your post contains many assumptions, the most notable being that modern jumpers don’t understand the risks of BASE. The obvious implication here is that only you and your cronies do. Rather a bold statement. It may be true of some, but those people have a habit of dying or smashing themselves rather quickly so I don’t think it fair to tar everyone with the same brush.

Anyway, the times they are a changing but people will continue to push the limits. You will say they are being silly and uniformed while telling stories of your bold feats (but of course that was different) at the same time. It’s all one big circle I guess.

Jesse.

i was just curious how long that "Dan The Man Blows Goats" sticker has been in the window at the Horner.

that IS legendary!

while Tom might have a different opinion, let me take a shot at it...

at the risk of annoying NickDG, let's look at skydiving. people get all pumped and excited, and attack the sport. they buy all kinds of gear. spend loads on training. but what happens? most leave after a few years.

USPA always cites statistics that the average jumper has only been in the sport a few years. thus, anyone who has been in the sport 10 years is a major statistical anomaly.

one definition of learning is "a change in behavior resulting from experience." the same folks will tell you learning requires "time and opportunity." jumpers who leave the sport after a few years do not have the "time and opportunity" to collect lot of experiences from which to learn.

how does this apply to BASE?

many attack it with blind enthusiasm. a long "apprentice" phase under a mentor used to burn off this enthusiasm... not anymore.

statsistically, most jumpers are probably relatively new to the sport. ask any of them, and they will claim they understand the risks. (and maybe they do.) it's just that everyone says that before suffering an ugly learning experience.

heck, that's what I would have said. then I had teachers die. I was there when a friend lost a limb. I've also participated in several "rescues" of injured jumpers.

I have seen jumpers hide how some injuries occur to protect family, jobs, etc.

after a handful of these rather unglamorous experiences, I realized I really DID NOT understand the risks... there is a huge difference between imagining and experiencing... sad.

folks like Tom A., and Tom B., work hard to educate newbies to help prevent more pain.

please keep in mind, the longer someone has been in this sport, the longer they have suffered. it's a ying/yang thing. don't merely focus on the cool stuff.

talk to a mother who has lost a son. talk to a daughter who has lost a father. notice people with permanent limps. they have as much to offer as a video.


ah, so true...
and impatience shortens the cycle.
I'd rather see it broken! (but I'll settle on seeing it extended...)

I've seen a bunch of people say that they thought they understood the risks but they didn't until a bunch of bad stuff happened. I think there is a difference between "understanding the risks" and facing the risk and keeping a careful eye on it. It sounds like that is the issue some of you have.

Every time I've jumped a solid object, when I pitch, I'm thinking in the back of my mind "ok, be ready for a 180". I'm not thinking "ok, I might have a total mal", but I still know it's a possibility.

I don't mean to seem cocky, or like I'm not afraid of death, and my views will obviously evolve since I'm very new to the sport, but I truly believe that I "understand" and face/keep-an-eye-on the risk.

pretty much, everyone thinks they understand...
and that is a good chunk of the problem.

until you watch a friend relearning to walk, being hurt but still carrying out a fallen comrade, or self rescue on a solo, do you really know?

I gotta ask. Are you talking handheld or stowed?

In your 49 jumps you seem to have accumulated the experience of a lifetime. Your posts are a clear sign of this experience.

It seems with every jump I do the risks become less clear to me.

I used to say "whatever happens, no regrets" before my early jumps. What a load of shit. You best believe I'm gonna regret ever coming close to a parachute the day I don't use one succesfully.

This dilemma is more about human nature. You'll never appreciate the risk until something bad happens to you. And after you heal, time softens the blow, and you find yourself back on the edge for more.

Usually once or twice a day, if I run a few feet, or just take a misstep, I'm painfully reminded of a BASE jump I made 17 years ago that shattered both my legs. A year of recovery taught me no BASE jump is worth that amount of pain. But, there I was jumping again as soon as the plaster came off. Is that me being stupid, or is BASE jumping actually that big of a draw? I didn't give in to the automatic impulse to quit as almost everyone jumping at that time was seriously injured at some point. It was the price you paid.

A good thing that's happened in the sport is while the fatality rate rises with the number of participants the overall injury rate is not as horrific as it once was. It's because the gear is better and the jumpers are better. Today's new BASE jumper at twenty jumps is a hundred times more competent and better equipped than I was at a hundred BASE jumps.

I also think, for newer jumpers, the sport is easier to walk away from now. You almost never heard of anyone quitting after someone went in, and now you hear it quite a bit. I think the reason is today's jumper just isn't as heavily invested in the sport. What I mean is when BASE was new, we worked hard to get the sport accepted when all around we were being dissed as crazy, or called worse things, and sometimes even losing an Instructor's slot because some DZO hated BASE jumping and thereby hated you.

It sounds strange now, but quitting BASE in those days was like waving a white flag of surrender. It was crawling back to the DZ with your tail between your legs, and not many were willing to do that. Nowadays, you take a course, buy state of the art gear, and the first time you stub a toe your gear's for sale . . .

In 1978 PARACHUTIST magazine asked Carl Boenish were he saw BASE jumping being by the year 1985, and he didn't even come close to being right. If you asked me in 1985 were BASE jumping would be in the year 2006 my answer would have wildly missed the mark too. I'm now resigned to knowing BASE isn't going to reach its potential anytime within my lifetime. I know we were right about BASE jumping, and I know the sport will be seen as one of the coolest things we humans invented in the 20th Century. I just wish people now would realize the major threat to BASE jumping comes not from outside the sport, but from inside. The world has accepted BASE jumping, the war is over, and we won. Now we just need to start acting like it . . .

NickD
BASE 194

I am curious on how you feel that the world has accepted BASE? AS a whole? what about the media? individual?


Very true.

What makes me seem like that? I think you just like tearing people down. Eat a dick.

As I stated "I'm very new to the sport".

And I have the experience of my lifetime, which you know nothing about, so why comment?

It normally takes a lot more to get me riled up, especially on the internet.

would you go stowed off 170ft?
did you ever see ANY going stowed off 170ft?

i guess not

HH it is....

I wonder if that qualify as a PA.

You have no problem recommending a canopy even though you 1. have nil experience, 2. have nil experience on that canopy"

http://www.dropzone.com/...ost=2532213;#2532213

You show how to pack a PC all wrong and ready for disaster:

http://www.dropzone.com/...ost=2515263;#2515263

Not to talk about the other dozen mindless questions like the break cord thread.

You got no experience whatsoever, an attitute and you are jumping solid objects and giving advices.

Do you see where I am coming from?

i have mates that were werry aware about risks they jumped in and then still as they got hurt,it came out of nowere..

Many(myself inkluded) think/thourght they knew about risk when we entered this sport,most of us were/are wrong we has/will learn...

Dont be offencive to posts telling against what you think is right,you may not agree but some people has done the walk,some are doing it right now,at some point you will if you stay long enough..
Each person has his/hers experience of this kind of life(i rather see BASE as a lifestyle than a sport/game),it might wont fit on you,but 95% of all jumpers will/has experienced above..

So why all this speaking about risktaking/meassuring?
becourse the day the sh!t hits the fan you will be more prepared.. belive me,you WILL loose freinds in this sport,you WILL get injuryed in this sport,You WILL experience that "regulary" people(even family) walk away from you as they cant take the risk of loosing you to this "game"...

I dont know about your lifeexperience BUT i know im not done learning yet,neither are you...

i dont normally waste my time responding to your posts, its generally humorus enought to let you hang yourself on your own, but here we go..

good to know youre above that...

every single jump you make, you should be readay for that 180... and a total mal? you should have triple checked your bridle routing well before you even got to the object... like when you packed it..


no offense man, but everyone thought that at one point or another... the old "i know it all and it cant happen to me...im looking out for it.." defense...
good luck with that...

you said it yourself "my views will obviously evolve"
they will.. mine sure did...

when is the last time you witnessed a fatality?
when is the last time you watched someone hook the piss out of thier canopy, directly into the ground?

ever participated in a rescue? of someone you know?

whens the last time you had a 180? ever? on anything besides the perrine?
how many of you jumps are not at the perrine?

and do you have any clue as to how smart base_rigger is? almost on level with 460.. which is dammned impressive... maybe you should think before you tell someone to "eat a dick".

Thanks Brian.

Freefalling from 170 feet is damn dangerous. I would only do it over water, on a rare occasion. Static line or a direct bag system is the way to go at that altitude, but both require a severe attention to rigging details, which can be difficult in at a harrowing exit point. The British are quite established in static line techniques and exploiting low objects. In my opinion, they are probably the best at it. I am still shocked that Alan Hethington, a Brit, static lined a 9 story building and did it clean back in the late 1980s.

dont think im ripping on you personally (much)

im just saying that there are a few people here, who really know thire shit, and it would serve any newer jumper well, to open their mind, before they open thier mouth.. good luck, dont die.

You know better, Dave.

I'm banning you from this forum for 14 days.

I think Dave actually does a pretty good job of stating his experience level, to let people reading decide for themselves what to make of his advice.



You really don't want to play that game. You know why not?

Because:

(a) You showed up here immediately after another username was disabled;
(b) You give identical advice to the that user;
(c) You claim 1200 BASE jumps, but none of the very experienced jumpers in your area have ever heard of you or made a jump with you;
(d) You give dangerously bad technical advice (like advising people that it's better to induce line slack in a rollover than to maintain line tension).

Maybe you shouldn't be giving people advice either. At least Dave is honestly representing both himself and his level of experience.

So, after reading this thread ower the days, i just have to put in my 5 cent. I did a freefall with a handhelt F111 48' connected to a FOX 265 V-Tec from the backend of the "Holmenkollen" skijump in Oslo, Norway (Sitenaming no problem, we have plenty of cops to pick us up...)
From the exit (on a fence, just by the top windows in the picture) it is 52m (170.6 feet) and i ended up with time to flare.
Like it has been stated over and over again, this is not a thing to do daily! So i did it once just to prove to myself that is was as possible as i wanted it to be (yeah, quote me on that...) I have it on DV-tape somewhere so if anyone wants to see how it looks like just say the word and maby it will be awailable on a website near you.
Is has been repeated by three others jumpers, and we all came to the same conclution. Fun, but just once We often do PA from the same site, but i only count it as a jump when it's freefall (that's just me...) So, i would say that my skills was in order, but i owe the jump more to those who designed and produced a cannopy witch made it possible to to

/Johnnyb

I have seen that in video somewhere. anyone remember what it was called on SDM.com?

I think it was on headdown.net, who asked us not to mirror their videos and now they are gone. Does anyone know the headdown.net guys? WOuld they let us host the videos now?

I guess this is my motivation to do some data recover on an old drive where I had most of SDM downloaded to.

I think the masses now want to know if baserigger really is Nick Nitro???

Who's NickNitro???

Only time will tell.

And Tom you know that I cannot even respond fairly to your points because I will be banned by the boss but let me just say there are many unpacked jumps where line stretch cannot be physically maintained and this without ill effects.

I strongly disagree. Maintaining line tension is extremely important in ALL unpacked jumps!

Are you coming off your high horse? Hope that doesn't get me B&

Faber, I was just asking since I have seen people go stowed from 60 meter. But I guess that last 10 meter makes a world of difference. Thx.

hopefully they dont do it often...
I saw serval stowed jumps off 240ft,but see no reasson..
I will STRONGLY warn againts going stowed off 200ft(60m).

I were just picking at you,60m is in the lower end of freefall i never saw any in person go stowed from that alti,infact most people i meet preffere to get a SL or pca off that alti..

Johnny,i long time wanted to do that jump.. were did you land? from the video i saw from this place people can by a good pca or SL make it to the parking lot.. whats the altitude comparison down there and how long a flight is it?

Has Peter Pan returned from down south? I could use his contact info if you could pm me cheers

Here is a pic from a stowed 63m exit at "Sollihogda, Norway" It's a little bit cheating, it's werry steep underneath the impact
http://gallery.onheading.no/2001_Sollihogda/CJtaake

Really, please show me a drop under without causing line slack.

There is more in life than rollovers and tard overs.

People got brain washed about the role of line tension in unpacked jumps. Understand the physical dynamics of such jumps and you understand why some slack in the lines will cause no harm.

I STRONGLY suggest not to BASE jump altogether

Dude, if someone wants to push the line then be it who the fuck are any of us to suggest anything to anyone, expecially to people more skilled than we are? If anyone has the skills to throw a double gainer off a 200' what is the big deal? Read again, HAS THE SKILLS. People kill themselves off the easiest object there is, at least anybody attempting such a technical jump, they will approach it with a different attitude (most of the time) than just another freak show jump, DW being the perfect example.

I see no point anymore to S/L myself or go PCA but I do not look down people who so do off the same object I FF. We all perceive risk and reward differently.

calm down dude..

I think you forget that this is more a beginers forum than a superexperienced forum..

I STILL STRONGLY WARN AGAINST GOING STOWED OFF 200ft

i do care,and if people are going stowed off 200ft its not going to be whith me watching it..

I do know that people has done so,does that mean its smart?I THINK NOT!!! and its my right to say so and surgest people NOT to do so,specially at a forum like this...

wow you got the point dude.. thats why i warn against going stowed off 200ft..

so lets say f#¤k thouse who belive they can theyre too stupied anyway?

AND ONLY!!! his dead as of today if you didnt know... Were only humans,we will make mistakes at some point,even DW did so and payed the ultimate price...

IM NOT going to watch you freefall the objects i SL,doing so mostlikely will kill you,only conklusion has to be that you aint as low as you might think you are...IF you can freefall it so can others,people actualy jump below the line were you can freefall...

Werry true,but most people dont see any reward in beeing injuryed or killed.. do you?
becourse saying "going stowed off 200ft is ok" will injury or kill most of thouse who post here.. think twice...

No comment...

whoa...
your "use" of logic is amazing...

do you not recognize the difference between "advice" and "control." heck, don't you think DW would have advised against the feats he succeeded at?

isn't BASE a sport where cautious advice is good advice?

on a forum like this, how can anyone determine that only people of superior skill will read the advice given?

are we to only let newbies offer advice?

Faber said nothing about stopping anyone, just warning against certain actions.

personally, your rant degraded the credibility of your advice. then again, you will probably resort to futher insults and profanity to simple say, "I do not care."

Reading back on what I wrote, it did sound quite nasty. I didn't really mean it that way.

Mother, mom, mum, ma, it's all the same I suppose, as long as you don't dress like her and go stowed from 170'; that would look odd.

Besides, I am not British (well, at this stage with all the family i've got over there...). 1/2 South African, 1/2 French and I won't go in to detail about grand parents and great grand parents because...

Talking rubish now; i'm going back to bed, too windy this morning any way; for a change...

"Nice sand" That's a new one....

now there's no doubt

your ignorance and misunderstandings of the dynamics of unpacked jumps have me convinced that you are Nick Rugay

please do yourself and all of us a favour and try to find out what really matters with unpacked jumps before spouting the highly dangerous fallacies you are spouting here

I do unders with no lineslack all the time at the potato, in fact I will only do them when i have enough wind to give me a good amount of linetension.

paypal me $15 for 'when good times go bad - part 3' and you can see my buddy Trent do a NO lineslack under

or you can just go watch Maggot's copy, as you are Nick Rugay....

next tell me again how the 3-way rollover double PCA is intrinsically impossible to do safely?? you just don't understand it..

and dynamics of a jump is NOT NEARLY as important as a GOOD Failure Mode Effect Analysis

pattern recognition helps too....

Ref. a post DW made on Blink

Does anyone know if this would have included anything over and above what we see on current canopy technology (post form 2003)?

Listen to DA MAN

For 15 bucks are you gonna teach me how to do unpacked jumps as well? That would be the deal of the century!

I got in touch with my friend and he ok'd me posting the video so here you go! The quality is not that great do to Utubes formatting, SkydivingMovies said "uploads unavailable". I'll put it up there when I can.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MQPSbsmbAk

Wow!

I had not realized how much safer it is now to base jump so low given the advantages of the newest generation of gear. It used to be the average canopy time from ~210 was 5 seconds, which was slowed by the use of velcro, poor pilot chute throw techniques, and non-vented canopies. The jumpers in the video are getting 6 seconds of canopy time from 170 feet.

I was SL'ing it, but he did this jump 12 times in about a week had two off headings and got extremely lucky on one of those. He was looking for those two jumps to post.

BTW, my SL canopy time was around 8-10 seconds. I'll post a couple of those for reference also.

perfect exits well done,i would love to jump that cliff

Is this 170' to impact? It is tough to tell on the video, but is there more altitude to the landing area? Those look like pretty reasonable canopy flight times if it is 170' to landing. Impressive.

How exactly did you measure that "170ft" height.....

172' to impact!

It's been measured many times, many different ways. I use a laser.

I lasered that exit at 173' to impact. I think the impact point I measured to was a very small distance (single digit feet) above the landing.

I measured that cliff from the bottom and the top before i jumped it, and like Tom, I came up with 173ft to impact. There might be a couple of feet difference between impact and the landing area, but it essentially is the same height.

The jumper/s in the video that tfelber posted performed "text-book" jumps for an ultra-low freefall. From the pitch, to body-position, and even in the way they released their brakes...everything was done perfectly. Very nice job guys!

It is amazing what vents and valves have done for low jumps. When I made my first jump from that cliff, I static-lined a well-used Mojo and had a 5 1/2 second canopy ride. Annie H. static-lined right after me, and had a 10.2 second canopy ride. She was jumping a vented canopy, and even though there are several variables (such as wing-loading and the way you release your brakes), it was apparent to me that bottom-skin inlets were the trick for low jumps.

That little bump of a cliff has so much history behind it -- you can't help but love that place! On that particular day, it was even more special. When Annie landed from that 10 second canopy ride, she smiled at us and said "Thanks for sharing my 1,000th jump with me."

That sneaky girl didn't say a thing until after she landed...



Bryan

Dammit Stokes!, enough of your positive posts with clear examples of canopy flight characteristics and site history relevant to this topic. There was some sweet sh*tslinging going on for a while and someone was gonna get whacked for sure.

Spiderbaby, I busted out laughing when I read this! You have to be one of the funniest and most animated people I have ever met. And your right, let's not detract from the rising tension!

Hey BnAiScEk RnIiGtGrEoR, tell us more about this theory of yours regarding line slack...

Bryan

This thread is the same sh!tslinging if thats what your into

http://www.blincmagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24531

Dustin

http://www.blincmagazine.com/...owthread.php?t=24531

People should get over themselves already.

Thank You for the compliments. You are far too kind.

However, unfortunately I am not retired. As a part of John Howard’s Australian Industrial Relations reforms and his aged employment strategy, he wants nobody retiring until they are at least 3 feet under. Hence, that subsequently categorizes me as an unemployed jumper. Do you have any employment opportunities for me? I am looking for something relatively safe with minimal risk. I am not really into modern tech. Something old fashioned more relevant to my generation. Perhaps a s/l or pca span position somewhere with absolutely no adverse meteorological conditions, large landing areas (preferably water with boat rescue), etc. I will send you my resume if you like. I’ll try not to embellish it too much, but that might be difficult for me. I have been undertaking some journalism work with organizations like www.dz.com in order to satisfy some of the work requirements of Little Johnny. But I would dearly love something with greater job satisfaction.

“Refreshing” and “perennial” are an oxymoron.


http://www.dropzone.com/...?post=996250;#996250

Yeah, I’m a big head swell. Sorry, can’t help myself. But aint I great!!!!


Sarcasm aside, I thought I was using facts as the basis of my so called assumptions. You know: Nick’s list, dead bodies, incidents, near misses, experienced people, students, today’s jumpers, yesterday’s jumpers, etc. I am not overly concerned about the subset of jumpers that is not modern for one very good reason – THEY ARE NOT JUMPING ANYMORE. And if they are, they are a part of the group that are modern jumpers.

Hence, the guy who quit 5 years ago is at “minimal” risk of hurting him/her self BASE jumping nowadays.

I would like to emphasize this further by saying that it is pertinent to minimize mistakes happening on today’s and tomorrow’s jumps. Not to admonish those people from 15 years ago. Those mistakes have happened. We can’t change them, only learn from them.

Jumpers 15 years ago had less opportunity to manage the risks as compared to today’s jumpers. They had less information, less people to contact regarding mentoring, less opportunity to share knowledge than today, less technology, less data, underdeveloped techniques, etc. Today’s jumpers have all the experience of yesteryear to draw upon. They have the internet, articles, publications, video’s, manufacturers, training courses, and a wide range of contacts to source their experience / knowledge / skill / and risk management strategies. But many people choose not to. This is becoming more common nowadays.





The implication is yours and yours only. If you look beyond the person you are attacking, harden up, stop taking this personally, and focus on the content of what is written, you will have read the quote: “very competent people can stuff up simple things. I have done it. DW has done it. You too can do it!!!!!! “. I don’t know about you, but that statement alone quite clearly suggests that I know that I have stuffed up, and that even the great jumpers can stuff up (like DW) –> By definition, newbies have a higher probability of stuffing up. They need to take extra care. I believe the only advantage that “cronies” have is experience & time. Some of it hard earned, some of it learned from others.

You are correct in that there are many capable and responsible jumpers out there today – a greater percentage in fact. The fact that we don’t have people dying every five minutes is testament to that. But whether you want to recognize it or not, we also have too many close calls that are born out of total ignorance and stupidity. If I had my laptop with me, I would attach a screen grab that show me in an act of stupidity and carelessness at KL tower a few years ago (Slim, Dwain, & Johnny Utah were on the same jump – very high calibre people – I brought the average down ).


Yes. Times are changing. People will push limits. However, I will not say the above – they are your words. If you can read what is in my whacky head, you deserve a psych PhD. I will say that the only difference between silly acts of the past and silly acts of the future is that you can learn from one cheaply, and others may learn from one expensively. My hope is that people learn cheaply - - - - oh shit . . . that happens . . . then I won’t do it that way . . . . . .

Risk management??? Here are some things that you have said:

http://www.dropzone.com/...ost=1564044;#1564044

http://www.dropzone.com/...ost=1296148;#1296148

http://www.dropzone.com/...ost=1704006;#1704006

http://www.dropzone.com/...ost=1667497;#1667497

Personal attacks (subtle and obvious):

http://www.dropzone.com/...ost=2516946;#2516946

http://www.dropzone.com/...ost=1658464;#1658464

Info Request Quotes:

http://www.dropzone.com/...ost=1666235;#1666235

http://www.dropzone.com/...ost=1665601;#1665601

Well at least you didn't take me too seriously...

In regards to the words “Refreshing” and “perennial” being oxymoronic, that may have been the case if my post had not been dripping in sarcasm.

Good job listing my previous posts though. That was important...

Jesse.

Hey Tom,

It seems that during the course of your overly methodical, systematic, painstaking, exhaustive, comprehensive, scrupulous, thoroughly unnecessarily verbose (tiring isn't it...), and entirely vain endeavour to defend your honour that you have missed the principal thrust of Jesse's comments.

Mainly that you do not BASE jump any more and have not BASE jumped for many years.

Thus, quite simply, a consideration of your opinions must be tempered with the basic fact that you are no longer an authority on the subject.

Whilst I do not wish to gratuitously depricate you, it is conceivably important to allow the BASE community at large to recognise that any opinions expressed by yourself are those of a non-jumper, and subsequently not of someone possesing current practical knowledge.

When information can be the difference between life and death in a sport it may be wise to have the humility to simply admit one's ripening.

As for correct usage of the English language, you omitted a possessive apostrophe in your typing of the Queen's English.

If not exactly a figure of speech by which locution produces an incongruous, seemingly self-contradictory effect such as an oxymoron, then this oversight is at least glaringly ironic.

Or perhaps the latter three syllables of the aforementioned grammatical phenomenon should simply be applied to surmise the situation.

Polecat.

I know this thread is old and someone drug it up to talk shit...but there is a 159-162 foot exit point being freefalled there now...

i wouldn't classify tom as a non-jumper. But as a highly experienced BASE jumper who put his rig away. the knowledge, experience, and insight that a person like tom can bring to the table, maybe dated a little, but not worthless. respect.

Thanks for your feedback. I presume you were at the video night going by the AGM minutes. What a great opportunity to meet and provide face to face feedback. I am not sure what you look like so I did not know who to say hello to. I would be happy to introduce myself and chat. Feedback on the forums is a lot easier I suppose. Maybe next time.

r.e. your post:

Not tiring. You have put in lots of time and energy collecting all those rooly big grammaticals. Great work. I appreciate your efforts.

I have no honour. I have not missed Jesse's principal thrust either. However, I think you might be thrusting slightly in the wrong direction. A hole is a hole I suppose.

I have never jumped. I am just good at using Premiere and Photoshop.

I am flattered that you actually think that I was an authority on the subject in distant times. Thanks for the compliments. You know I did some jumping with the God of BASE - Jesus of course. That is where I got my authority from. He said for me to go forth and teach the world about the faith and both this lifetime and the afterlife. I thought he wanted his disciples to hang around in this lifetime for a while. I got it all wrong. He meant the afterlife. I will now have to retract and unteach all of his disciples. I have seen the error of my ways. I will repent. Thank you for highlighting this to me.

I would have thought that a non-jumper would have no practical knowledge whatsoever. What is that word? Oxymoron? Or lets stick to 2 syllables instead of 3. Maybe the latter two? Is that what you meant?

I am happy to admit I am old and fat and lazy and ugly. And you are more than welcome to shit on me too. As long as I am providing entertainment, that is all that matters.

FYRef
- http://dictionary.reference.com/
- http://www.answers.com/main/reference.jsp

Check out these CRW Big Way Shots
. I was not 3rd row middle and I won't be going to CA in June and Fl in Nov for the WR and some "other" jumping!!!!

xoxoxoxoxo - Me

p.s. to all BASE jumpers out there, please do not take any advice from me. I am a non - jumper who does not know what he is talking about. I have never jumped either. Even less so in the last few years.

There you go. Fixed. World Saved.


edit to remove jumper's name ~TA

You big old fucking liar!! I thought I could trust BASE jumpers!
But I guess your not a BASE jumper so it is ok.....

Edited to add fat and lazy

I wouldn't say you are old Tom.

g.

Tom, you have inspired me.. to admit my shortcomings. If you can do it so can I, I guess.

Three syllables indeed I wished to refer to, but rather in reference to the adjective as opposed to the noun form.

I'm sure you can join the dots.

Say hi to the baby Jesus for me.

P.S: If I wanted my name mentioned for the public record in relation to BASE, then I would provide it in my profile, hence the esoteric pseudonym.

If you glean my profile you will notice that about the only thing I desire to be known about me is that my beloved hobby is, "molesting shaved goat testes with the tongue of me".

May I take this opporunity to extend the olive branch and invite you to share in this most esteemed of activities with me.

Cat.

damn dude, you spent a LOT of time and research on a barely-personal attack post. kudos.

Sorry about the name thing. I was just about to send TA an email to edit but he's already looked after it. Thanks TA.

I'd love to go for a leap - that is the esteemed activity you were talking about?? I am not sure about the molestation goat testie thingo though?? But they actually do taste OK (that is the wog background coming out in me).... I'll eat them after they've been cooked!!

p.s. I am very good at admitting my shortcomings. I have many, many, many, . . . . . . .