Basejumper.com - archive

The goal here is to list bad idea practices in the art of packing and also BASE jumping. Maybe some one has time to play with this photo attached that came from the early 80's.
Please be responsible with your replies.

I'll go first.
take care,
space

The list (of how not to get on "The List").

1. Using Pull up cords or rubberbands as a PC packing aid.
2. Car Battery as a packing weight.

Extrem, but this list should be worth reading.

Whoa.
That post has so much I didn't know even after asking questions from experienced jumpers.

Thanks.

I am only doing this from memory and not from "The List".
take care,
space

Doing a bomb in a pool after a 4 day drinking binge.

Enjoy

Jim

Jumping/packing drunk.
Jumping/packing under drugs.
Jumping/packing after 2 sleepless nights.

This happened on a PC with a plastic pipe handle as well...not that the handle would have mattered...the know was around the material the PC trailed for a few secs and extracted the PC a few secs before impact was due(the shadow in the video was getting close).

Several people including me(I deleted all the pics on that SD card by mistake) took pics of the PC. Maybe someone will post.

I think the jumper held the PC a sec after extracting it from the pouch before throwing it. Does this fall under the weak PC throw category?

Kris.

Care to elaborate on that?

1) having multiple rigs packed multiple ways without clear labels as to how it was packed.

2) using the white loop on the LRT system when going slider up.

3) not attaching the PC to the centerline sewn loop and using the side tapes instead.

dont worry nobody does that...

Or Jumping/packing after 2 sleepness nights on drugs while drunk.

I haven't heard this story yet.
How did the car battery as a packing weight almost cause a fatality?

Nathan

I've seen it done a few times, and it never was pretty, and sometimes downright scary.

Personally I am guilty of #3, jumping after a couple sleepless nights. That was one ugly jump. I could never concentrate on the task at hand, and I kept dozing off on the climb up. There's been a picture posted here somewhere of someone in freefall with an undone chest strap; that was me. Luckily it was a TARD jump (tard in more ways than one, eh).

Alright now, I was not on drugs.

??? hmmm 4:20 ...

Define 'Drunk'
I am not a medical porsen, but I was under the impression that although alcohol is a depressent, in the early stages of alcohol consumption awareness and reaction goes up. I also seem to be under the impression that police officers look for 'extra' careful drivers after closing time to identify potential DIUs, i.e. people who drive below the speed limit and reduce speed before any junctions. So, one could argue that being slightly drunk makes you react better in an emergency situation and that packing whilst very drunk makes you more 'careful' about packing

Are you suggesting just sticking the nose of the toggle through the brake setting rather than using the white loop? Does this offer anything other than the obvious (but, I would argue, marginal) increase in security and savings in wear-and-tear from not involving the white loop where it's not necessary?

To the list, I'll contribute, "Black elastics. Anywhere. Seriously."

- Trying to detect radiation by sensing it.

 Velcroing your cheststap for the climb without threading it properly and threading the legstraps through the buckles WITHOUT taking the rig off!!!!!

In Apex's Owner's Manual, it specifically says not to use the white loop when going slider up, just to tuck it to the side. Why, I don't know. My ignorance shows. Can anyone chime in?

I haven't done this, yet, but don't see any problem with it. Can you clarify the issue with threading the legs straps while the rig is over your shoulders?

How about:

Sail sliders have no place in base

Short delays slider up are prone to off heading
openings (read: numerous cliff strikes-fatalities at one of the popular E's in LB)

PLAY SAFE

It hasn't yet. It is work in progress.

I would also like to add:

JUI, it's a bad idea.

The battery acid weakened the main lift web and one jump later the webbing tore 3/4 of the way through.

Steet (I don't know how to spell his name, in fact I don't know how to spell many words...) from Norway would probably say it is not smart to do a terminal jump in Kjerag with a slider down packed rig...

please re-read the 1st part of the sentence :
which means the odds of forgetting to fasten the chest strap correctly are increased.

Can you explain that again. I don't understand.

It sounds like your saying that running the leg straps through the buckles increases your chance of incorrectly running the chest strap through it's buckle.

Re-read the whole sentence.
It says its a bad idea to :
-Velcro chest strap without routing it properly
-Then get your legstraps on without taking the rig off.

If you take the rig off, you will obviously take the misrouted cheststrap off and then route it correctly(or get 1 more occasion to do so).
If you DO NOT take the rig off, chances are increased of keeping the misrouted cheststrap.

Capisce ?

Reading the posts and reflecting on the original question: what about a "bad ideas" list.

At first glance, it seems good to have such a list. However, with some imagination (and worse, looking at the fatality list) such a list can be endless. And such a list can never be complete either. People allways find ways to make new mistakes. In short, such a list can be made up of one sentence: "don't be such a dumb-ass" or, said nicer: "avoid stupidity". In order to behave like that, seek good and proper tuition. A possible negative effect of the bad ideas list is that beginners will just look at the list and take off on their own. A real no - no to me.

I think it would be better to create a "how to practice safe base" list. Surely, a lot has been said already on how to do that.

Ronald

Here's what I learned the hard way last friday. Something I will take with me forever.


When you see someone doing something contrary to safety in BASE, i.e. packing a pilot chute with a pull-up cord. Say Something, do something. Don't just think it. While we might be ultimately responsible for our own safety in BASE, you never know when a little insight may save someone's life.

And trust me, you will sleep better at night.

-Justin

I don't mean to sound disrespectful or anything, but what makes you think a list like that would prevent beginners from having a look at it and taking off on their own. I would be inclined to say that a "how to practice safe BASE" list would be even more of an incentive.
"Hey I can't find anyone to teach me but I've got a list here that tells me how to do it safely."
History has a way of repeating itself and there will be another 'Fred' or possibly even another pull up fatality. But as someone else said, if you see someone packing with a pull up, don't just think it's dumb, act, speak up and possibly prevent something stupid happening.
The last fatality proves in my opinion that it's going to take a bit more than the writing of lists.

Patrick,

There are no garantuees for the issue you raise. It iss just my gut feeling. Based on the idea that if you have a "bad idea" list it might lead someone to think that as long as he/she does nothing what is on the "bad idea" list, he/she will be OK. And then does something bad what is not on the list.

Anyway, we can allways compromise:
Do's & don'ts for base.

Ronald

... Which is like saying that the way to teach a math class properly is to get in front of your students and say, "Understand math." Then leave. Your suggestion is unhelpful at best. Any finite list will miss some points. But even a list which includes *only* "Using pull up cords or rubberbands as a PC packing aid", from the first post, would be already better than an ambiguous "avoid stupidity".

They will always build a better idiot.

I believe the problem is that the extra bulk passing through the small metal ring (brake line plus white loop) can cause things to lock up, either before you release the toggle or after.

Michael

I'm using a half mini rubber loop on the break ring for storing line excess _on_skydiving_rig_. I was so dumb to store excess on one side over the ring. I was fighting with it for minutes after opening. That side did not want to open... and I could not see why. It took weeks to understand what was wrong.

Pull-up cord might cause similar problems if its left there.

 

The way you teach some one to do something is by showing them what they should do. For the most part it is a bad idea to use negative examples in primary instruction. There is too great a danger of confusing the issue. However as time goes on people need to be aware of the errors of the past. We have a very high turn over rate in skydiving and base jumping. Average life span of a skydiver is only about five years. I don’t have a number for base. I can tell you that the last boogie I went to in Moab had a Lot of new faces. I could count the people I knew on the fingers of one hand.
Any one that’s been in the sport long enough has watched one or more generations try to reinvent the wheel. There are plenty of things that do not seem unreasonable on the surface. I love getting a hold of a new rig or peace of gear that some one has built. It’s not unusual to find small and some times large mistakes. If we don’t remember and pass on these little details then yet another generation will have to go through a rather painful learning curve.
If you doubt this just wait. Sooner or later some one will try to explain to you why you should use the break mod slider up so that your canopy will fly the same as you are used to slider down or some other silliness.

Lee

 

 
Telling them to read the list is'nt really about instruction. It's part of a reality check they need make in there decision to get involved in base.

Lee

Miss-routing PC when getting ready to jump.

1) Putting your rig on when your pilot chute is already out of its BOC.
It can fall through a leg strap and you put it on without seeing the bridle routed through your leg strap.

2) If you don’t like stowing your PC in its BOC (because it can cause hessy if its been stuffed in BOC for a while) you should double check to ensure its routed cleanly from PC to pin or Velcro. When perched in jumping position, double check the bridle is routed cleanly from PC to pin not around you or the object... no. 101 on the list

George

>>1) Putting your rig on when your pilot chute is already out of its BOC.
It can fall through a leg strap and you put it on without seeing the bridle routed through your leg strap.<<

George,

Some ideas are timeless. Even before we did anything stowed we rubber banded our hand held Hank 52's to the bottom of our containers and would never take it out [the pilot chutes] before putting a rig on.

The problem is how to tell someone that without sounding like an old fug . . .

NickD
BASE 194

I've put my rig on at the exit point with the PC laying on the ground several times. This is usually a HH jump using a large PC which I changed at the car just before the hike. My primary concern was snagging the PC and popping the pins.

I also have a practice of ensuring the bridle is clear from my hand to the bottom pin prior to exit, but I can see how this could get me in some serious trouble if I were alone, in a hurry, or didn't check my bridle each jump.

Well, we readied our rigs to put on, the next logical step in our feeble minds - you can do it how you want.

Oh, and you didn't have Thread Thrus or B-12s.

NickD
BASE 194

ill give u a bad idea dont get all jacked up on coke and jump with a half once of blow on u because if u get cought
then u have to come down in jail the cops take your coke and they carge u with feloney pisesion besiseds the holw base thing by the way tony hows your leg i hope u are ave ing midgets massage it evry day

Arrested, do you do illegal BASE jumps?

My leg is good. As a matter of fact I went to the Dr today and not only are they not doing a second surgery, but they moved my able to walk on it date from 3 mos to possibly 1.

I might be jumping by xmas!

jump now u pussy just land on your other foot
i have to go out and party now so f all of u

My other foot's f'd up too. I didn't even know 'til I tried to walk on crutches in the hospital of horror.

oh, thats because i kept tripping over the damn railroad tracks while i was carrying it. Sorry 'bout that, i'm a clumsy fool

If you use the white loop when the break line is going through the keeper ring (slider up) the loop can jam against the ring when you try to release the breaks. This can be fixed but takes valuable seconds to do so.

M.

Thanks for that post.

Thanks!

I made the same mistake and usually I just pulled the toggle down so hard that it cleared the jammed white loop. Me rigging it this way was just a dumb mistake that revealed my lack of knowledge of my own equipment.

Glad I wasn't the only one who was confused here. Thanks for clearing that up -- I won't be doing *that* anymore...

I was.
Cliffleaper

Shit. where do I start????

1 - seeing a guru/God do something and then trying to emulate it (next jump) - without emulating the preparation.
2 - progressing too rapidly and in an illogical way.
3 - not doing research before you begin an activity like BASE.
4 - having an expectation that everything you want will be handed to you on a platter when you want it.
5 - having no respect for the sport, its history, its contributors, its lessons, and the real risks associated with it.
6 - making stupid statements like "I understand the risks" when you don't really understand them.
7 - thinking that preprequisites and preparation are a waste of time and bad for your development in the sport.
8 - thinking that someone else's boundary / limits are your own. If you underestimate yourself, your achievement level will be diminished. If you overestimate yourself (more common scenario), you may end up dead.
9 - treating a BASE jump like a skydive.
10 - doing stunt jumps off higher risk objects (i.e. tards off underhung cliffs).
11 - having the belief that because something has worked the last 11 times, it will always work and is safe. From this, not understanding the difference between risk mitigation and luck.
12 - ignoring all the tools, information, and resources available.
13 - allowing a 100 jump wonder to instruct you.
14 - the list goes on . . . . . .

15 - thinking that ethics are a load of shit.
16 - lying to your mentors and instructos about your prior experience.
17 - instructing / teaching people when you have insufficient experience / skill / ability.
18 -

etc

Not being able to commit to walking down from an exit point.

any new bad ideas?

Having more time and focus with aerobatics than tracking or a safe pull...

Jumping with Track-Stuff too early thinking it is safer that way...

making posts as long as TVPB

banning clifhuckstable

not running from the cops/ rangers

You are good at running, why didn't you use that skill in UT, wuss.

can you explain that?

A suit is not a complement for weak skill.

track stuff can put you in deep sh*t. Fast. Hard.

Better starting by objects which do not require too much tracking and progressing in tracking etc progressively.

Keeping things simple at the start help keeping things doable.

My opinion.

exactly what I meant. In better wording. Keeping the text simple too

track stuff can put you in deep sh*t. Fast. Hard.
what exactly? (do you mean that track pants/jacket can put you in serious trouble or objects where you need track pants/jacket can put you in trouble?)

what exactly? (do you mean that track pants/jacket can put you in serious trouble or objects where you need track pants/jacket can put you in trouble?)
If you can't track without tracking gear and think you can compensate your lack of skill by wearing tracking stuff you are in trouble. It will give you a wrong feeling of security. Next step could be to buy a wingsuit if you still can't track with tracking gear.

That's true, but there's more to it than that. I've had stability problems jumping my PF suit (thread here), including at pulltime and I've seen other people on here alluding to it too.

Gus

If you can't track without tracking gear and think you can compensate your lack of skill by wearing tracking stuff you are in trouble. It will give you a wrong feeling of security. Next step could be to buy a wingsuit if you still can't track with tracking gear.
i see your point, but where is the big problem?

of course i agree with you that one should be (very) good at tracking before getting into base...

...but why should a base-newbie use normal pants instead of tracking gear?

the wall is a part of the big problem. Getting lift/thrust/speed/spin when you don't want is a part of the problem. Would you give trackpants+video+whatever to a new skydiver for a 1st jump ? Whatever experence you have prior to your 1st BASE jump, a 1st jump remains something new.

You must be good at tracking prior to jumping ? depends on the object. An object that requires tracking is NOT a 1st BASE or a newbie BASE object.

Good at tracking ? Tracking and tracking at subterminal speeds are 2 different beasts IMHO.

Too many "young" BASE jumpers go for "all in equipment", "all for aerials" etc... and think because they pulled something out twice, it's an acquired skill.

I know, some of the people who offered advice above are "old school" style BASE jumpers... They don't look cool and don't do the hardcore cliff swooping sh*t. So if you don't want to listen to their advice (or similar advice), please stay away from their objects.

Toni, you're still one of the greatest persons I know even if you don't swoop the cliffs

Tracking gear can make it harder to find the PC, and it can also throw you into uncomfortable body positions, as well as effecting your ground awareness. It's far better to be comfortable with the mechanics of the BASE jump itself before adding another layer of complexity.

It's the "add on new thing at a time" principle. The safest way to progress your skills is to add only one new thing at a time, so that you only need to focus on one additional skill or complexity. Then, once you've got that down to the point it's second nature, you add the next one.

For example, say you have never made a BASE jump, but you'd like to side float your friend on a 2 way. The intelligent way to approach this is not just to go for it. The first thing you'd want to do is learn to BASE jump. Be able to perform good flat and stable forward facing exits, and comfortable with mechanics of the jump and landing. Staying at a familair object, you'd next learn to do a side floater as a solo. Only then would you try adding the other jumper.

herehere.

or you coould just be a man and huck it !! but now really an even worse idea would be to sit around and think of a dream moderator..or.......naaaaa i'll let it go

Don't be to sure, Toni is now also on the dark side...
he has been seen wearing those devilish tracking pants over his tracking jeans :-)

Although I've never flown any tracking suit (but flown Prodigy pants a lot, which do not exhibit any stability problems), let me make a guess about the nature of these problems: the legs and arms are not in full contact with the inflated "balloon", which allows the latter to wobble (move separately from your body). Tracking suit stability can benefit from additional points of contact between body and outer fabric by means of, for example, inflatable inner cells. Robi?

what would you think of if some base newbie wears the trackin pants/jacket on 100 skydives before using them on base jumps?


yes, a video-camera does not impove performance on a specific base jump.


i did not think about a 1st base jump. i thought about the maybe fist terminal jump.


do not get me wrong: i do not want to have "those cool" tracking pants/jacket - i only want to do it the right/safe way!


i am the very last that would not listen to more experienced! please do not get me wrong if i do not stop asking questions: i am only curious about all that stuff and want to UNDERSTAND it. ok?

thank you for your effords to help.

thanks tom/Treejumps - that helped.

oy vey!

the issue is NOT the gear, and it is NOT the object. (even if gear can always be improved...)

the issue is understanding the BASE environment, zero airspeed exits, wind patterns, possible turbulence, situational awareness, personal abilities, etc.

any added equipment that enhances tracking acts like a lever. the user can greatly increase their ability, or greatly increase their risk.

Even with tracking pants, it's easy to go into a turn because one leg can provide more drive than the other. A flat spin is even possible if you are really maxing it out, even with the pants. Depth perception of the ground is more difficult with a lot of forward speed.

It's funny that a friend and I can out-track one of our team who wears a tracking jacket and tracking pants even though we are wearing nothing special.

I would think that "nice preparation" and suggest on making couple of terminal BASE jumps first without tracking gear and then start to use any tracking setup if he feels comfortable with it. Why ? Please remember, BASE is not skydiving and regardless of how much you train and prepare in skydiving enviroment BASE still is another ballpark. Please read and understand Douggs' post (http://www.dropzone.com/...um.cgi?post=1744857;) about modern tracking gear. Modern tracking gear are an awesome tool and help the sport become safer but using them can be deceiving. For example in popular big wall in Norway it is not allowed to use tracking gear on your FJC, why not ? Because it pays out to learn the basic skills with basic setup, basic tracking, solid deployments, basic altitude estimation and so on. I've seen one fatal accident a bit too close where modern tracking gear was definately a factor. The jumper was very experienced and current big wall jumper and still he got it wrong, got sucked low and tumbled at the deployment. I'm not blaming tracking gear for that accident but like I said, they definately were a factor there.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for modern tracking gear and use them myself too. But I'm all for taking it slow too, learn the basic skills with basic setups on suitable walls. You still have the rest of your life to make those cool and long tracks with your tracking setup.

whoa. dude. i have done some 4 odd gainers and ill never fuck it up. i swear.