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I live in Twin Falls and enjoy the company of visiting jumpers. I did my first BASE jump here and love this town.

Last night the Skydivers that lost their friend here were very drunk and loud at the Outback. They were given every opportunity to morn their friend in a respectful way, but instead sullied his memory with obscenities and drunken rudeness to the bartenders, the staff, and even the owner. (The Outback was just sold and this was the new owners first impression of BASE jumpers)

I remember when death was something new to me. If you can't handle the death of a friend without pissing off everyone around you, then stay away from BASE, and stay away from our town.

This is one of the only places in the country that treats us like adults, please try to act like one while you are here.

BASE jumpers die, this fact will not change. But if we stick together through these times of trial, we will always have a comradery that lives forever.

Be Safe
-Bill

The Perrine Bridge is a gift from the good people of Twin Falls and the state of Idaho to BASE jumpers from all walks of life. We need to start respecting this gift more as it may not be there tomorrow if people take it for granted.

Let's start cleaning up our act people. In the last 12 months BASE jumpers have appeared to have taken the wrong fork in the road of life and we're going in at a much higher rate than we should be.

BSBD for the deceased as it sounds like he went head low on exit and his bridle wrapped around his leg? ...

Does it make you feel good to rip on these guys the day after their mentor went in? One of them did a EFS toast and they got kicked out. Get over it.

How about deleting your post?

i second. delete it. the whole thread.

Well said. I wasn't there but I do know that different people deal with things in different ways. Do you really want to be the person to judge them?

I personally do not agree with you deleting this post. I think it contains useful comments.

While I sympathize with those who lost a brother at the bridge, the Outback there has always welcomed jumpers with open arms, and even given jumpers discounts. If the jumpers needed to blow of some steam and get fucked up, it could have been done elsewhere.

IF it was one simple EFS, it might be being blown out of proportion, but the Outback is a public establishment, and typically profanity is not welcomed in such places, especially at loud volumes.

Ganja

thread could have waited until. i dono, NEXT WEEK.

If you can't make a post about a fatality without pissing off everyone in the sport mourning a loss, maybe you should find another sport. The guy they were mourning had easily 6 years for each one of your three. I don't fault them for an EFS, it is the least this fellow deserved. If you stick around long enough, you may eventually understand tradition...

-Hixxx

No this thread should NOT be deleted. This is not the first time a local Twin Falls resident (who happens to be a BASE jumper) has asked us out of towners to behave better when we frequent Twin Falls businesses.

Besides the adrenaline rush aspect, the allure to BASE jumping for many people is the desire to be a rebel in life and to tell "the man" #### ### I'm going to do it anyway regardless of what you say. This is fine and dandy when we're on an object about to flik ourselves off of it. But when we're in a public business (who historically has been very good to people of our type) we need to show more respect to the other patrons, the staff and the owner. We need to leave the "I'm a rebel, look at me, look at how cool I am, I'm not afraid of death" attitude behind when we go to places like the Outback. The whuffo world does not care about what we do, and they are quick to pass judgement on all of us regardless of who they have or haven't encountered.

Why all of a sudden in the last 12 months are we dying at such a high rate in this sport? Are there too many of us and this is just a natural statistics thing? Are we taking too many risks thinking that it can't happen to me? Are we not showing the objects we jump enough respect? Do we not have the appropriate knowledge, skills and experience to be doing what we do? Do we think we're immortal? Or worse, do we have a death wish? Despite what some people think of me, I don't want to quit this sport (BASE jumping) but I've decided to step back from it a little to try and figure out what it really means to me and are risks worth the rewards? I think the risks are worth the rewards but only when we start thinking about the quality of our jumps rather than the quantity.

Once again BSBD to the deceased and the people who cared about him. Who's next?

fair enough.

i just think it should have waited.

i dont even drink, becasue i hate the way drunk people act.

It's no secret that alcohol makes people act abusive and violent towards others. A small amount of alcohol in our blood can make us happy. But as soon as too much of it gets in there, we loose our minds and our ability to act rationally.

it is all about respect.

the community of Twin Falls has shown BASE jumpers more respect than any other in the U.S. the Outback has shown BASE jumpers respect.

these jumpers also want respect and to be able to express their loss as they see fit.

unfortunately, not all behavior is appropriate for public display. when we travel to other locations, we need to remember we are guests. please act accordingly.

by demonstrating respect, we will help to earn it.

the BASE Outback staff, not jumpers, seem to be judging the behavior of the grieving jumpers. only they know how bad it hurts...

  Bill,

Sorry you had to (or Outback had to at least) put up with the childish self-centered behavior of the jumpers polluting your good town. Some people just never grow up and never get it. Hopefully the few bad apples don't spoil the reputation of the bunch, but that's being very optimistic.

.." The guy they were mourning had easily 6 years for each one of your three."
.

The guy had 18 years of BASE jumping ?
I am sure everyone in Twin Falls appreciates the ( EFS ) Eat, Fuck and Skydive drunken cryfest that was dragged into Outback for there dinner show.
In case your Not Aware. It's becoming an ever popular Outback Steakhouse tradition that should not be missed since the Rate of Cratering-In is on rapid growth there.
FACT, This Bridge. Now the Deadliest Legal Span to BASE jump From. In the United States.
.

Would you still say the same thing if your grandmother was out for dinner, and it was a bunch of snowboarders
EAT FUCK SNOWBOARD!!

Bottom line it's not the DZ, it's a public, family restaurant. There is a time and a place for everything!

Too right. Just in case we forgot, you can be killed jumping from this bridge. What's all this EFS nonsense? EAT, FUCK, SKYDIVE???? I thought this was BASE. Get a grip kids, your mates ARE going to die, so learn how to deal with it whilst respecting everyone, deceased included.

the out back sucks balls its for small minded mid west inbread idiots and the food sucks and not just at the one in TF but all of them

I thought you liked their salads? Lightly tossed?

Tossed? Yes, magot definitely is a tosser.

no need to rip on people who behaive

how about you delete yours?

If we expect to keep that S legal we better treat the place and the people arround it whith respect...

What ever happened to "leave no trace?"

It sounds like a lot of people are missing the bigger picture here. This is not really a thread/issue about what may or may not have happened at the Outback--this is about the survival of legal BASE jumping in TF.

How many people do you all think will have to go in at this object before the TF community collectively says "ENOUGH?" Every time there is an incident there, we're another step closer to losing the single best legal training site in the US--it puts us walking on eggshells. When ANY of us act inappropriately in the town, it's like putting on Hanwags to walk across those eggshells. It doesn't matter how much you're mourning, who just died when, how. Like it or not you're an ambassador to the [TF] public for BASE jumpers.

Just because it's a legal bridge over water does not make it any less of a BASE jump. This is something we ALL need to remind ourselves before each jump there (or anywhere)!

Don't take my word for it--go ask any one of the many BASE jumpers that has moved to or lives near TF their opinion on it. I think the fact that this thread was originated BY A TF LOCAL should have squelched most of the debate on this subject. When we're guests, behave appropriately--pretty simple concept if you ask me...

BSBD to the jumper and condolences to his mates.

pope

We call ourselves self-regulating, but in reality we are non-regulating. If we don't police this and other types of activity that negatively impact what we do then the authorities will.

I feel for the people who's friend went in, but if BASE jumpers asked them to quiet down or leave; one that might have listened and two the non-jumping public would have been left with a different impression.

I'm not saying that Sully and whoever else was there didn't say something, but let's be a little more responsible for ourselves as a group. For the most part we are pretty good at dealing with the issues that surround us, but some times we fall a little sort.

Well said.

Thanks for posting that Bill.

I am very saddened that you needed to. I hope people take note.

I would like to point out this:


it can be found in the jumping site guidelines thread

Everybody who travels to someone else's community to BASE jump, PLEASE inquire about the site specific guidleines BEFORE going and abide by them, as you can see, they are EASY to find.

You have no excuse for offending people in THEIR OWN COMMUNITY because you are ignorant of their REQUESTS in regards to your behaviour.


I'm rocking a new sig-line because this is getting ridiculous.

cya

The BASE community can sit here and complain all day about situations like this, but nothing will change unless our "self-policing" sport does something about it.

Please post their names here so all will know who they are.

Holy shit people they got drunk after their friend went in. Nobody else in Twin Falls is ever out of line? The manager, employees and customers at the Outback have so much political pull that they are somehow going to shut down base jumping there because someone got drunk and loud?

I understand that the base jumpers need to be respectful to the other residents but lets keep this in perspective. People get drunk and loud all the time for lesser reasons or none at all. Someones close friend dies and they get a bit loud in a restaurant and now you're calling for their names to be posted here to somehow blacklist them?

This thread may have some useful comments in it about what is necessary to keep your site open but it's timing is total fucking bullshit. Try to have the smallest amount of empathy for what these folks are going through and keep what is in reality a fairly small incident in perspective. You may do something you regret someday too.

You guys are getting way carried away with this. I've been patient up to this point and now I'm getting pretty pissed off. First of all from my friends who were at the bar that night what has been said has been slightly exaggerated. The bar itself was buying drinks for this group as well as others sitting at the bar. If they were being that grossly offensive I doubt the bar would have been buying them drinks. Second of all they all just lost a good friend right in front of their eyes just hours earlier. So some of them got too drunk and got cut off. They made an EFS toast and the owner talked to them, from what I've heard they respected the owner's wishes when talked too. This owner is going to see plenty of base jumpers in his time to not judge everyone. I doubt he's gonna turn down that much business because one group of people made an EFS toast after losing a friend that day.

And finally what pisses me off the most is that Sullyflyer, you had the nerve to post this the day after the accident. Where is your sympathy! Everybody grieves differently and this could have definitely waited a week. Even though some good information may have been posted, your original post is inflamatory and direct slam to those that lost their friend when you talk about how they disrespectfully mourned their loss. This post could have been written much differently as to not be so hurtful to those that are mourning. You could have made the same point and more people proabably willing to listen had you just discussed base jumping etiquette without an exaggerated attack on Iowa jumpers. Also anybody that was not at the bar that night has no right criticizing this group of people at all or even worse listing their names on here.
You should all be ashamed of your attitudes and this thread should be deleted. I'm done with this.

Sorry to repeat your comments diverds. I was still writing mine when yours was posted. Oh well it needs to be said twice anyway.

To elaborate on TB's post. The situation at the Outback was uglier then what TB described. When the owner is being ridiculed/threatened and has to get "dishwasher boy" to double as a Bouncer, you knew it's not a good thing (kudos to the one jumper, not from that crew, that realized later on how bad the situation was and apologized to the owner). I spoke with these guys that night before all of this went down and they appeared to be pretty good dudes. Unfortunately, they let their emotions get the best of them after having to pull their dead friend's body from the Snake River. It's important that as BASE Jumpers we show the surrounding community (anywhere) that we understand that this is an unfortunate part of the sport and that we can handle it appropriately. Since we have a theme going here, the Outback had another incident a couple of weeks ago where a jumper's girlfriend spewed copious amounts of chunks all over the bar. Now at the time I found this to be funny as shit and thoroughly enjoyed it in my drunken stupor. However, I know the owner was upset and the bartenders received a write up for serving this chick too much alcohol. The one bartender was a trooper and cleaned it up immediately w/out gloves or anything! I know when visiting Twin Falls to jump we are going to experience a lot of good times along with some bad ones. Just make sure when these occasions occur that you're able to keep yourself in check when visiting the local restaurants.

Jamie

Blacklist? Never. However, if I happened to know any of the jumpers that were involved, I'd like to email or call them and explain that we all participate in a sensitive, misunderstood, and dynamic sport. Since BASE jumping is so controversial, it won't take many more incidents (jumping or otherwise) for the "safety freaks" to take our freedoms away. Keep in mind that the Potato Bridge is one of the few legal bridges in the world. That means you guys should behave better in Twin Falls than most other places. I'd also like to let the Iowa guys know that my friends and I would like to visit the Outback during our next TF visit, and I don't want to have to hide my "base jumper" clothing in order to get service.

It takes a long time to open new objects, but only a few short seconds to lose them.

When local jumpers are sounding the alarm that we are on thin ice with our access to the bridge, why do you want to downplay that warning?


Bottom Line: We (all of us who like to jump off the bridge) need to shape up in terms of our conduct around here. This summer we've had a lot of bad publicity, several accidents, and lots of negative opinions in the local newspaper. We can ill afford any more negative publicity, hard feelings or any other kind of conflict with the local non-jumping populace.


Visitors can easily leave town after something like this. It's the folks who live here that have to show up later and apologize for their conduct, and try to make it right. You may think that "just this once" is "no big deal." When we have to try to defend, explain, or apologize for the conduct of group after group of out of town jumpers long after they've left town, it doesn't really feel that way.

Getting drunk isn't the issue. Most of us who have been through this kind of situation have been double-fisted drunk that very night respectively... but that's not the issue. The issue is causing a "scene" in a local business establishment. One's buddy going in does not give one the right to infringe on someone's place of business. It's not the bartender's job to cut you off. If we are to be "trusted" to be responsible enough to jump from that bridge, don't you think we should be trusted to no be a public nusiance?




Again, not the point. Nobody else in TF is going to lose the legal privellege [note: not a RIGHT] to jump from this object if they pop off to someone at the Outback. What we're looking at here are the fucking tonsils of a gift horse. Let's pull back and look at the bigger picture, shall we?




I must have missed the "blacklist" comment in the threads above, but I agree that that's not a solution. The solution is to show that BASE jumpers care enough about our sport and our community to show the proper respect where it's due--including to local businesses, law enforcement, each other, and of course, our dead. This takes participation from EACH of us! Self-regulation is harder than it sounds.




The timing of the thread is only as bullshit as the incident at the Outback was. Speaking for myself and plenty of others who've responded to this thread, we DO HAVE EMPATHY. We have all lost more than one close friend to this sport and have had to deal with it, just as with this death. But please explain to me how these jumper's lack of respect for the entire BASE community gives them a get out of jail free card for being held accountable for their actions. TF is NOT A DROPZONE!

We ALL need to understand the dynamics of a BASE accident and be sensitive to it! The ripple effect of shit like this goes far beyond the Outback Steakhouse.

We're all sorry about losing a brother. Let's prove to the world that we can BE self-regulating. It's a lot different than "no rules," IMHO.
pope

Well said Pope. Your thoughts are spot-on.

To be a little more clear on what I think self-regulating could have looked like that night. Keep in mind I wasn't there so I don't really know what happened I'm only going off of hearsay and speculation.

The jumpers present should have recognized the problem and offered the guys a ride back to their hotel, since they were probably way too drunk to drive themselves. If the Iowa guys were very resistive to the suggestion, which one may be when they're drunk and dealing with shit they really don't want to be dealing with, the other jumpers present should have walked them outside, had a discussion, and made sure they made it home safely.

There's no reason for black listing, ass kicking, or any other violent reaction. These guys just needed the jumpers who were there to handle the situation directly. It should have never gotten to the level of the management of the Outback.

I bounce people at my friend's bar all the time. I don't make them feel bad or make threats. I just let them know it's time to go and I will be the one walking them out.

If you tried that with me while I was drunk, it would probably become a fight. Depends on how smooth you are

I was present at the time of the fatality as well as being present at the time of the Outback incident. I apologized the very next day to both the new and old owner for what I had to do with that prior nights debauchery. I believe that what happened was nothing more than what to expect from a bunch of guys that watched a friend go in. The problem is that everything that happens in that 'Steakhouse', not bar, is oversimplied to one group known as Base jumpers. We all need to realize that it is a restaurant and a very fun place to get drink specials and discuss a lifetime of jumping stories. It's a $15 cab ride to Woodies for some late night partying where the 'F' bomb is actually encouraged and many over the hill fine ladies are willing to dance, drink, and cuss with you. I am not from TF, and have only been there twice, but I agree with walking cautiously at a place where everything bad gets dumped on the 'BASE' jumper. Cheers to you all... DOING MY FIRST 'A' THIS WEEKEND!!!!! :) ... and NOOOO I was not the one dancing dirty with a fine 50 yr old. She said she was 22.

I doubt it. That's why it would have to be the jumpers who dealt with it. Anyone else would result in a fight or at least some major intimidation and that's what it sounds like happened.

I believe most of us understand what it's like to lose a friend and what everyone was probably going through. It doesn't take much to deal with that type of situation.

Beat me to it!!!

I can't believe that it took someone who is not a local to say that Woody's would be a much more appropriate place for heavy drinking.

If you have enough sense to BASE jump, then you should have enough sense to know the Outback is not the type of place for this type of behavior.

agreed pope.

i still think it could have waited. i dont knw if the freinds participate in this forum, but it might just be one more thing they have to deal with last week.

if you weren't there, you should NOT be defending them either...

things like EFS (S - is for SKYDIVING, right?) offend just as much as lighting up a joint. would you consider doing THAT in public?

if the bar was buying drinks, they were showing respect to our fellow jumpers. it doesn't sound like the jumpers demonstrated appreciation.

visitors wishing to jump any object should check with the locals, and understand the local environment. this thread was started by a local to help guide visitors. it's a shame he needed to remind us...

That won't solve a goddamn thing just create more grief.

Tony and pope, well said.

My roommate was one at the bar that night whose word I take over anybody I don't know posting here. You are correct I wasn't there and there could have been stuff that he even didn't notice. I'm not going to defend the behavior and I should have left that whole part out of my previous comment. However, I will stand by everything else I said. The timing is bullshit, and the some of the comments made in these posts are utter bullshit. I don't know why I even wasted my time to go back into this thread. I guess if I could get one thing across it would be just to cut these guys a little bit of slack. They all just lost a good friend. Sometimes people make mistakes when emotions get the best of ya especially when you add alcohol. Lets move on people. I guess none of you guys have ever acted out of line for lesser reasons that sometimes come with typical drunken behaviour.
I understand everyone is worried about relations with this town to keep this bridge open, but there are more tactful and respectful ways of getting your point across like a few have been able to portray.

People make mistakes (I know I've made my share) and you're right people here need to move on. Instead of focusing on what happened at the Outback a few days ago, we need to focus on what needs to happen in the future and what we in the BASE community need to do is show more respect to all sites. I forget who said it (it could have been Pope or NickDG or maybe TomA), but regardless of who said it, it's worth repeating:

"It takes a lot of time to open up a new site and only seconds to close it".

true.
it is all about respect.
by demonstrating respect, we will help to earn it.

That's really all I was trying to get across. The original poster could have been much more tactful with his timing and wording.

I don't understand the "outrage" about the timing of this post. It appears that the post was not a personal attack, but a continuation of the discussion from a couple of weeks ago about similar incidents at the Outback. Obviously some people aren't receiving the information and waiting to discuss it further will not help the situation.

What a load of tree hugging, hippy shite. In fact, I think Mr SullyFlyer may actually have been Henry Kissinger in a previous life.

I just had to go back and carefully re-read what SullyFlyer put in his original post and consider it in the context that it was soon after this fatality.

And I still can't understand what all the skydivers are getting offended about.

BASE jumping is not skydiving.

BSBD.

if u want to run with the big dogs some times u have to eat dog shit- Sensei Maggot

dude


BASE is not skydiveing, agreed. but shit man. people dont go in every day. close, lately, but still not every day.

Just a couple more thoughts to ponder...

You posted this less than 5 hours after his death. You advertise Iowa under the BASE forum. This is very selfish and thoughtless on your behalf. Instead of standing on a soap box, 5 hours after the loss of a life, you should have relaxed, focused on your true point and realized that this man probably has friends and family back home expecting a call after his jump. When that call is not received, many significant others keep a close eye on these threads for fear of terrible news. I pray that none of his friends or family found out about his death because you were hot under the collar and just HAD to post his death before the coroner even released the news to his immediate family.

I agree a different venue should have been chosen, or maybe permission asked to EFS. BUT... my other point to ponder is I know how absolutley shocked I was to get the news and I didn't see it happen before my eyes. I highly doubt that if I had just watched my dear friend whom I love as a brother, fight for his life, jump into the river to try and save him, and learn that he didn't make it...I highly doubt I would be thinking very clearly at all. When it came time of realizing I needed to eat and a drink sounds really freakin' good right now, my mind would say "I'm hungry. Oh look there's Outback."

Your comments give the perception that you have become very desensitized to death. If it's BASE jumping that has caused that, maybe you should consider taking a step back for a bit. I do hope you evaluate yourself some in that area.

No out of towner needs to be blacklisted or labeled. This sort of conduct will continue to occur, especially if you are the visitor...anywhere you go and tragedy occurs. Skydivers and BASE jumpers are fairly smart people. Rather than agreeing or disagreeing with each other over and over again about the conduct of Iowa jumpers, how about posting possible resolutions such as a TF BASE committee volunteer group. The group can put together welcome packets that inform or list the expectations. I've never been to TF, but other than Woody's is there a Skydiver/BASE restaurant close to the bridge so that jumpers can burn off their adrenaline?

So with all that said. Can we please stop the mudslinging? I personally don't care what threads are deleted. As far as I'm concerned, it's a learning experience for us all. The original post has validity. You just made a mistake as well and like the Iowa jumpers mourning their loss of a friend, you should also get a "get out of jail free" pass.

And that's all I have to say about that.

I *have* been drinking !

But isn't one of things that BASE teaches you is to desensitize(sp) ? Isn't going in a consequence we have all thought of on a jump ? Why get so terrified when it does happen ? Perhaps if you are not ready to accept the reality you are not ready to jump ?

P.S. But perhaps I am just wrong ...
P.P.S. I don't mean any disrespect to the deseased jumpers. I am just saying that I felt that at BD some people walked down because the event shook them up, while others walked down because of respect... Those 2 are very different.
P.P.P.S. Nor am I calling anybody a pussy.

"welcome packets that inform or list the expectations."

ohp i found it!

number 4 is the issue in discussion if you want to skip down to it.

Idaho Bridge

1) Call the Sheriff dispatch before the start of every jumping day (+1 208 735-1911)

The Sheriff has asked that we call the dispatch at the beginning of any day when there are jumpers on the bridge. This is so that the dispatch operator can calm anyone who calls in the emergency number to report a suicide jumper, and explain that BASE is normal and accepted here. If we do not call, the Sheriff has to send a patrol car to investigate whenever jumpers are reported at the bridge.


2) Please do not stand on top of the handrail.

The transportation department, which owns the bridge, has asked that jumpers not stand on top of the handrail because it distracts motorists, and they are concerned that it may cause motor vehicle accidents on the bridge. The bridge is the main entry to town from the interstate, and accidents on the bridge back traffic up all the way through town.


3) When using planks/platforms, remove them when not jumping.

If you place a plank or exit platform, please remove it when your party is not physically present at the bridge (either packing at the visitor center or in the park at the bottom, or jumping, hiking, or riding out). If you leave the bridge for any reason (even to get lunch or to pack at a hotel), please remove launch platforms until you return. Always remove platforms at the end of every jumping day.


4) Respect the local people.

Twin Falls is a small, rural, conservative, American community. Be aware that nudity, excessive profanity, drug use, or excessive drinking will give jumpers a bad reputation here. Beer in public is acceptable, so coolers in the park are no problem. Music, so long as it's not overly explicit, has also never been a problem.


5) For boat service call Don Mayes (+1 208 731-6448)

Not really a jumping guideline, but so many people ask for Don's number that I'll include it here. Don also has brochures and business cards at the visitor center at the top of the bridge.

6) BASE jumper discounts

BASE jumper discounts are available at many area businesses. Be sure to check if you can get one for hotel rooms and meals. Outback (at the top of the bridge, behind the visitor center) offers 2 for 1 drink specials for BASE jumpers all day, and IHOP (at the top, on the other side of Blue Lakes) has a 15% discount for jumpers. Patronizing local businesses and letting them know that you are a jumper makes people aware of the business that jumpers bring to town.

Have a look at the sticky at the top of this forum. Check out the post called "Idaho Bridge". Point number 4 is fairly relevant to this discussion. Also, have a look here and here. The expectations are pretty clearly laid out in some very public places. It's not Bill's fault if people haven't bothered to look and read them.




There's a very BASE friendly restaurant/bar right at the top of the bridge. It's called The Outback.

do you realize:
-this is the 2nd fatality THIS YEAR at TF?
-earlier this year, another jumper almost died
-the recent fatality was NOT the first to die because of tying off his pc
-the BD fatality affected far more people, but was handled much differently by family/friends
-some people that have posted here live in TF and must mend relationships after each and every tragic event. they have been fighting a backlash
-some people that have posted here get the unfortunate task of reviewing the photos/video to determine why the tragedy occured
-some people that have posted here have carried out seriously hurt jumpers
-some people that have posted here have BEEN seriously injured jumpers

-Skydivers may have trouble with death or injury
-BASE jumpers are far too familiar with death or injury

-the recent fatality ignored "the list" and continued to practice a known hazardous technique
-friends of the deceased ignored established and posted guidelines regarding conduct in TF

show some respect if you wish to receive it...

I don't get it.
How do you know that it happend because of tying his pilot with a pull up.
I don't know what happend, I live far away, but according to BASE BOB's post:
So why are so many beliving that it was because of a pull up???

because of Tom's post on his analysis of the video/pictures
posted on the incident forum and on the other thread here on the BASE forum

Ok, but I think there are 2 opinions here.
One is what the jumpers said standing below the bridge:
and the other is what Tom can see in the pictures taken by a tourist:
I would be very interested in hearing a first hand witness raport.
But this belongs probably in the fatality thread...

It has been my experience in other areas of aviation that solid video/stills evidence is always better than eyewitness reports - whether from laymen or experts. The mind, especially in cases where everything plays out in 4 or 5 seconds, is notoriously unreliable at telling people what they actually saw.

This has absolutely nothing to do with repect or lack of it toward the jumpers friends or family.It has to do with immaturity of a group of people and lack of repect toward the people in that restaurant.People mourn death everyday without offending everyone around them.I would suggest these people take a step away from BASE and skydiving until they learn to do the same or the next time someone they know goes in they go to the grocery store,buy some burgers and beer and take the mourning to a private place.I have a feeling that if they were in a private place they would have been a little more subdued as it has been my experiance in these situations people act different in public than they do in private.I have mourned the loss of many of friends without making an ass out of myself in public.
As for timing,I bet the family was getting calls from the media before there was ever a name posted here.

per Tom's photo/video analysis:

so the top skin of the pc appeared restricted. the bottom skin mesh was not.

the people on the bottom might have seen the mesh, and assumed the pc was NOT restricted. being friends, they might have seen what they want to see...

p.s.
Tom, thanks for the review. I wish it had not been necessary. you have had to perform way too many this year. I hope next year will be better!

This is a valid point. Does anybody know if anybody saw the accident from the top?

Yes. Two jumpers were at the top. One jumper on the top reported that the pilot chute looked "too small" and "about the size of a fist." The other reported that it looked like the PC was fully inflated.

It is also possible that the PC was constricted when pitched, then wrapped the ankle later in the freefall. The constrictor may have popped off after the wrap, so people at the bottom saw impact with a fully inflated (but entangled) PC, while people at the top saw a constricted PC. The last photo showing a constricted PC (which is the last freefall photo) still shows the jumper a couple of hundred feet in the air. There was plenty of time for more developments in free fall.

No it won't! If this sort of conduct continues we will not be invited to jump the bridge or hang out at the Outback.

If your profile is correct, you have 90 jumps, don't BASE jump, and from your post have never even been to TF. I think you are operating on more than a little misinterpretation.

I realize you and friends lost someone maybe the first time jumping. It shakes you up and makes you question everything. BUT it does not give one permission or excuse for disrespecting others, jumpers or not!

My posts are made with much respect to the overall issue of conduct in TF. I agree that the conduct in a family restaurant is not appropriate. It is an issue that needs addressed but it will not be resolved by debating it through threads. Your point is clear. One of my points is suggesting to be even more proactive about the situation if it is as urgent as you state. In life there are only two things a person has control over, what you say and what you do. Outside of that a person has to learn how to work WITH the situation in order to get it under control. Forcing and demanding doesn't solve anything and it only makes it worse. I'm aware that information has been created already and protocols are set. If that's not getting the message across well enough, take it to the next level. Print off the information and great the jumpers at the bridge itself and verbally talk to them. My suggestions are just examples of brainstorming. I am by no means trying to imply that they are good ideas or feasible ideas. I'm just trying to instigate (sp) a basis for more effective resolutions to the matter at hand while remaining compassionate to all involved. Seek to understand before trying to be understood.

I am very young to the sport and very in love with it. The points I am trying to make do not represent the technicle skills of BASE jumping. So please don't downplay my input based on my experience level.

To reiterate the most important point in my original post, our friend passed and another individual announces it before close family and friends learned of the event. This IS a fact. A couple days grace would have been much more sufficient and labeling Iowa certainly was unnecessary to make your valid points. My plea is to the overall skydiving/BASE family...learn from the bad timeing of the original post and how it was labeled. All of us in Iowa and Nebraska know exactly who was there. Should any friend or family member have found out through dropzone.com is something I wouldn't want for anyone...ever.

I hope this thread can end on that note. What's happened has happened. It would be more productive to focus on the future instead of dwelling on one small incident of the past. Everyone makes mistakes.

How do you figure that?

Accident: Nov. 3rd ~4:30pm

Post: Nov. 4th 8:57am

Mikki,
What's up bro? Just to clarify, the information that I posted previously was another opinion offered by jumpers at the bridge. Tom had posted what he knew at the time from info he gained from speaking with jumpers on the bridge at the time of the incident. However, he had left and did not have the opportunity to speak with the jumpers who saw it from below ( these jumpers were friends with the deceased and pulled him from the water). They both informed me at separate times that they saw the PC inflated and wrapped around his ankle. One jumper stated that he didn't see the pitch but looked up directly after and saw a inflated PC wrapped around his ankle. The other jumper stated that he saw him pitch and the PC inflated and went right around his ankle. They both said the deceased jumper dragged the PC with him into the water. When they found him his shoe was missing and his pant leg and sock were severely torn. The bridle was still tightly wrapped around his leg. There was no packing aid found around or near the PC. These guys also informed me that this jumper was anal about making sure his pull up cord was accounted for during his jumps. The point of these postings is to give jumpers as many opinions as to what happened from as many vantage points as possible. This information may change over time as different details of the incident come to light. As we (all jumpers) view these details hopefully we can come up with a group consensus as to what led to this fatality and learn from it.

Jamie

Who the fuck cares? It was too soon regardless. In my opinion and many others' opinion. Why is it that some people here have to argue about every little detail instead of focusing on the actual topic?

The actual topic should have been something along the lines of: "Repecting BASE Sites".

Not a direct attack on Iowa skydivers less than 24 hours after their best friend's death. That was inappropriate.

I've held off posting on this thread due to emotions regarding this situation, but this is getting way too ridiculous. Seriously people, get a fucking life.

How about a sign at the exit point that says "Don't act like an ass at the Outback".That should do it.

Tom posted the incident report Nov 3rd at 7:10pm. This was done to possibly save lives of other jumpers who were about to make a jump with a pullup chord tied around their PC. For the most part incidents in BASE, and skydiving, for that matter need to be reported quickly to prevent similar accidents.

Sully did not post until Nov 4th at 8:57pm. However, in case you haven't noticed from reading this thread, this bridge is quite valuable to us and anything that jeopardizes it or our acceptance in that community needs to be dealt with immediately.

As for your inexperience with BASE and possible inexperience with dealing with friend's death your assumptions about how to deal with the event may be incorrect.

I hope in this situation you realize there are issues you don't understand. No criticism, it's just something you don't know you don't know.

apparently you do. he stated a fact.

you need to move on.

  Too soon?? I'm sure there will always be someone to say it's too soon to identify our missteps and correct them, but I disagree.

And I don't buy the whole mourning bit either. "Well, yes, I did rob that bank, sir, BUT I'm mourning for my friend so that makes it okay."

What exactly is done during an EFS (eat fuck skydive) toast that offends people?

Hey there

Did anyone have a chance (jumpers, family, friends or police) to check the deceased pockets. This would pretty much confirm whether he removed the pull-up prior to jumping. If he did, it's on him somewhere, it simply has to be. If he didn't and did leave it on the pilot chute and it came off during freefall, you'll find it down wind or down stream.

Of course this won't change what's happened, but the facts being revealed might mean the difference to someone else.

ian

The word "fuck" is used, loud and proud. Other words that are seen in small, conservative, rural towns as being offensive can also be used.

Since it's their town, and their bridge, recognizing this is good.

Wendy W.

I don't see why. The lesson that you keep track of all your tools is valid whether it was part of this 'specific' fatality or not. And that lesson has been stated a few times.



Blue skies to an old friend - BSBD buddy

"And that lesson has been stated a few times."

Apparently it needs to be stated a few more times if this is the cause of this death.

how about we talk about the fatality in that thread and let this thread die since it has been beat to death and nothing is gonna change what happened. Also there will be more jumpers coming to TF and some will and some won't offend the locals all we can do is try to be less offensive to those communities that allow us to use there site. I love TF for letting us jump the bridge but not necessarily the locals.

 

I wasn't very clear with my "who the fuck cares". I was actually referring to the person who pointed out that this post wasn't made five hours after Joe's death, but the morning after. I have just been getting progressively more upset since this post began.

I'm not going to get into a debate again about this because I feel like everything has been covered extensively and does not need repeated. But I wanted to point out that I do care about the base site and about it being available for future usage by jumpers. Although I am not a base jumper, or even an experienced skydiver I do understand and I do care.

Now let's let the subject end please!

I think the subject will end when people start to conduct themselves in a mature manner at the local establishments.

the truth if some one does not like the way u are behaveing in a bar they should just throw u out shit i get thrown out of bars all the time and i does not stop me from being an ashole its my right as an ameriacan to be an asshole and if u want to piss off the guy or girl serving u food and drinks then go for it but they just might take a shit in your meatlof
and by the way how would the people at the outback know your a base jumper anyway unless u where your im a base jumpershirt look at me
but i only jump legal bridges because im a pussy

Tree is absolutely correct.

I’ve planted more friends than some have had hot meals - and I am not the Lone Ranger in that respect on here.

When I go in, everyone do me the favor of cowboying the fuck up over it. Then go do a night flik.

Then drink lots of Patron. And get nekkid. (NOT in a local public establishment por favor)

Blondie's TF girlfriends will fill in the gaps for ya since it's a male-heavy sport.

Shelly, secure the chow hole.

That is all.

No wonder why everytime I order meat loaft with you it always tastes like shit!

Yes. The sheriff did so, and the coroner cataloged all items found with the deceased. A pull up cord was not found.

the problem is SKYDIVER'S leaving there DZ.
GO back to the DZ and leave the BASE jumping up to us that know how. if you want to learn how then sell your SKYDIVING rig and buy two or three BASE rigs. travel and meet real BASE jumpers. Here is a hint we won't be a the outback. people die BASE jumping get over it. Your EFS toast was dissrespectful to the jumper that was BASE JUMPING your idiots. buy the way find a new mentor one that knows what he is doing.

have a gowaylow day

Look...
I realize as well as anyone how traumatic losing a friend this way can be. I offer you my most sincere condolences and wish you and all the Iowa friends and family well in [your] recovery.

Consider this a word to the wise;
BASE jumping has seen a lot of people join its ranks over the last 5-10 years.
WE ALL NEED TO REALIZE THAT DYING AS A DIRECT RESULT OF BASE JUMPING IS INEVITABLE IF YOU CONTINUE TO BASE JUMP![see attachments]

You will die. Your friends will die. It's often gruesome and horriffic. It's almost always much more than difficult for the families of the fallen. These deaths will leave PERMANENT scars on most of us. Yet most of us continue to jump. If you jump thinking it won't happen to you, then you're a fucking idiot. If you choose to not jump your mates will stand by your decision and respect you that much more. So yes, Stacie, I also hope that we all evaluate (or continue to evaluate) ourselves in that area. But as for desensitizing ourselves to death--why the hell not? BASE jumpers (generally) deal with death differently than most people--they HAVE to be able to think clearly. That's a fact of life that YOU (and anyone else that is bothered by the "timing") need to deal with--particularly when visiting a BASE forum. If you can't handle that, I suggest that you stay in the happy, flowery, "everything's gonna be alright" forum.

Stacie, you said in a later post that there are two things we have control over-what we say and what we do. These guys should have controlled what they said and did, and it's important not to point out that it was Iowans (?) that did it, but that this shite can't happen in TF, because the site is more important than anyone's drunken expressions of grief. Timing has NOTHING to do with it.

On a personal side note; I know I haven't been skydiving very long, but what is this "EFS" crap and why would one toast a BASE jumper with it anyway? To any friends I might have left--If/when I go in, please don't do this EFS thing for me!

pope

Can someone name 3, 4 and 5 please.

Edit to Add: Nevermind, I found them on the list. I had a feeling the black and white was Carl.

Ask whose permission? The owner of the establishment, or every customer including parents with children that you would offend.


A Skydiver/BASE restaurant?

How about leaving your adrenaline inside your stash bag before heading out to a restaurant that everyone else likes to go to...

Note: only replying to the last post...

Please explain to a European what this EFS is.
I found out in this thread that it means Eat Fuck Skydive.
But I don't get how it's done. Do you shout EFS when you toast or do you actually try to do it and pretend to fuck and skydive while eating?
And do you have to make funny faces while doing it? And is there a special EFS handshake?
And why is there no EFBASE thing?
Please explain.

How about leaving skydiving out of BASE... I dont know ANY BASE jumpers that would have done this EFS bulshit.. keep that stuff at the Dropzone and far away from BASE...

This to me is reflective of the people now in the sport... too many with a skydiving mentality...

It's a toast/ tradition/ group bonding thing.

One person yells: What Do We Like To DO?
Everyone in the know responds: Eat! Fuck! Skydive!

EFS can happen anywhere from a loaded Otter on a hot summer day to..... anywhere a group of skydivers congregate.

HA HA!!! Priceless Mikki!!

/Micke
Team Bautasten

How are you Micke?
I uploaded something to skydiving movies:

ZüriBASE

You play a guest role there...

Greetings from Switzerland

Thank you pope-it was worth reading thru the chaff to read your post. a dose of reality is needed for a lot of folk.....and life is a terminal condition.....

Agreed, same to me.

I was asking myself the same thing the other day.


That will depend dude. If you go in on a BASE jump well it will be out of the question. But if you go in skydiving well we might just have to do it to haunt your spirit.

This friend misses CO. But what can you do?

Oh, I dunno...move back??

You're such a fag. Jess also wants to know when our goddam reception video's gonna be ready.
PS. It's 6' and light offshore right now. How's the surf in Boulder??? Surf's up Ace.

another two or three feet and it would be overhead, eh?





Umm...it sucks, fuck you very much.
pope

You should move back to Santa Cruz mate, they just passed a bill that would allow you to purchase, own and wear all the fishnet stockings and clear heels you could ever want and live within 2000' of schools and parks. You can now rock out with your cock out bro...I mean SIS.

Rocking out with your cock out... that is CC... Joking