Basejumper.com - archive

A jumper from Iowa went in here today.

We are not certain exactly what happened.

Here's what I know:

The incident happened around 4:30.

The jumper was seen to repack his PC at the exit point, using a pull up cord tied around the PC to get it into the BOC.

He did a full floater exit, and was slightly unstable, rotating head low. He pitched at approximately 2.5 seconds. 2 jumpers at the exit reported that his PC appeared far too small (one said it looked about the size of a fist).

His PC was seen to be fully inflated just before impact (approximately 50 feet) by a jumper in the upper landing area. His container was completely closed at this time.

Impact occurred at high speed with a closed container. The container burst on impact.

The bridle was found wrapped around his ankle very tightly--so tightly that it had torn his clothing.

There was no restricting device found on the PC when it was recovered from the water.



News report here.

Tom, or anyone who has the name, could you please PM me? As somewhere in Iowa, I'm hoping it's not someone I know.

Sincerest condolences to his friends and family and to the Des Moines Skydivers and Couch Freak family; It has been a rough year for our brothers up north.

And best wishes to Tom A, the Twin Falls locals, and the community who continue to support BASE; a difficult year for them as well.

Godspeed.

Donk

Fuck.


Fly free bro.....

A friend will be missed

This is terrible news.

Let these last two fatalities be a reminder to all that there is no such thing as 'Just a Bridge'.

Condolences to the jumper's family, friends, and the twin falls locals

PM sent.

This guy was the 2nd person I met in the sport; he was an important part of my life for 10+ years. Made me laugh to the point of pissing my pants on so many occasions ... oh - the stories we could tell.

He was crazy, loving, always in the moment, and real.

I only knew him as a skydiver, never knew/saw him doing BASE jumps.

I will miss you, baby.

Serious thanks to anyone/everyone who was at Perrine and helped with the scene.

Much respect,
D

To follow up with Tom's post. I did speak with numerous jumpers who witnessed the jump from below. They state that he front floated (facing bridge) the exit and pulled after he passed the steel. They're convinced that the PC did inflate immediately and wrapped around his ankle (leg). They state that he tried to "kick" off the PC until they lost sight of him behind the trees. When they got to the deceased jumper they noticed his sock and pant leg was severly torn and that the shoe was missing.

RIP
Jamie

fly free forever

Fly free brother. Was great finally meeting you and getting a flick in last labor day.

Where's folkman's boots?!?!

I'll miss you, fly free my friend.

Just got the call from some friends who were with him.

Blue skies forever my friend.

This is terrible news.
Condolences to everyone that knew the jumper.

Kris.

Could someone please PM me with a name?
BSBD

My deepest condolences to family and friends.

People...please, be careful.

BSBD


It has been a very sad year.

Just got the phone call about this. I am still in shock.

Bad news guys. It sure seems like we are going through one hell of a spike right now. I wish everyone involved the best and hope this and other incidents aren't making life impossible for the locals.

Sure makes you think again about what you're up to.

Tom, any word on how many BASE jumps the deceased had?

Reported as 65 prior to this one, as stated by the deceased immediately before exit.

fly free brother,my condolance to family and freinds

So, it hit the news today. BSBD brother. Fly free.

http://www.spokesmanreview.com/.../story.asp?ID=158213

ltdiver

So I may be knew to the game, but it seems to me that if Nick can take the time to update the LIST then it may be a good time for every one here to take the time to have a look and become familiar with it again.

he will as soon as he has the facts needed,rember as of my knowledge the name hasnt been released as of yet,also people might need some time to study video to make sure what hapened exactly to make sure its the right fact given out..

I ment that as he had just updated it, it may be a good time for people to re read it.

sorry my bad

Thats cool man. It just seems like a mistake that is already on the list to me.

http://www.kmvt.com/news/local/4565246.html

here is some more info

have a Gowaylow day

http://www.kmvt.com/news/local/4565246.html

gee,we're really racking them up now aren't we...

man, i sure hope my chute doesnt fail to open someday.

fly free man...

Oh dear lord, they could at least pretend to care about accuracy...

it WILL open, we are the impetus that causes that chain of reactions that make it happen. but i'm preaching to the choir...

we pack these rigs so carefully and yet a lazy pitch makes it a moot point.

i read in another thread were the iowa skydivers referred to him as their mentor, yet he only had 65 BASE jumps, that's scary. my mentor has over 600, i'm comfortable with that, i'm not comfortable with 65. this whole situation saddens me deeply, i was at couchfreaks this year and i know what a tight knit group they are...this is a sad event and my thoughts are with all of you.

EFS! EAT, FUCK, SKYDIVE!

I believe he was being facetious re: the media's typical assessment of any jump fatalities...

Don't believe everything you read on the internet. You're assembling one fact from Tom (65 BASE jumps) with misinformation from another post/ thread. The "mentor" comment did not come from the Iowa group. Check your facts.

I know the parties involved. The deceased is a friend whom I had the privilege to make skydives with over the years. He was an experienced skydiver who had gotten involved in BASE the past few years.

My sincerest condolences to family and friends and anyone involved.
Fly free, brother

I helped the Sheriff's office with the gear and accident analysis today, and had a chance to look at some 35mm photos shot by a tourist on the overlook.

From viewing the photos, my conclusion is that there was a restrictive device of some kind tied around the pilot chute.

The PC is clearly in a fully extended position (at bridle stretch, with mesh fully extended) but with the ZP gathered in a tight bundle, and can be seen towing behind the jumper in this position in two photos shot in sequence, with around 100 feet of freefall between them. Under digital enhancement, a bit of orange color can be seen trailing beside the black ZP (the pull up cord that the jumper used repacking his PC at exit was orange).

I'll try to get copies of the photos from the sheriff's investigator, and post (scaled down to attachment size) copies here.

Jumper has been identified as 42-year old Joey Lathrop.

BSBD

Does anyone have a picture of him? I think he may be one of the very kind people who helped us at Couch Freaks this year after my friends had their double mals.

Joey is the one on the bottom.

another...

If you heard him referred to as Sofa King, that was him.

-Blind

Please people understand that the PC is your life. It doesnt matter how you pack, exit or do your jump. As long as you have a working PC.

To use a rubberband or a Pullupcoard to pack your PC is just as havign a Pullupcoard in our loops while climbing. Its just the most stupidest thing I have ever heard about. Its probably the worst idea somebody ever came up with.

All respect for the jumper and Im very sorry that things like this happends. But this is to all the other jumpers that are still out there. Understand that this idea is just so fucking stupid.

I have packed a 48" PC over 200 times and it isnt that hard ou know.

/martin
have I offended somebody. send me a message.

Assuming the previous 2 posts and the interpretation of the video are correct, I second Martins opinion 110%!

Using clamps for packing a canopy, which I don't do anymore, is acceptable (BUT always count your tools).
Using some packing device for packing a PC is not only not necessary, but potentially lethal.

Ronald

Thanks. I know a great guy like Joey will have tons of friends grieving for him.

Those who are not taught, those who ignore and those who forget history are doomed to repeat it. My heart goes out to all those who loved him.
Kevin

if the cord were used shouldnt it have stayed at the pc?

if the bridel had entangled whith the jumpers leg and torn his pants apart wouldnt you think it required a expoused pc?

or is this a doubbel mal?

I'd like to recommend that we continue discussion about this fatality within this thread at this point. Perhaps there's still more we can learn from J.

The other thread should be allowed to drift down and off the board. The points have been made thoroughly, yet we still miss our friend. It's getting less than productive as the contentiousness continues.

Fair point. This thread is more appropriate for my question.

In the other thread i commented


to which you replied

I now understand your point that the specifics might matter to Joey's friends and family specifically - for me, it doesn't, a friend is gone

regardless of my point that the lessons learned are basic and clear and applicable for everyone and they should be paid attention with or without a recent applicable incident to 'hammer it home' (it's sad that some observers would blow off the lessons unless something dramatic happens to bring them to light)

nice summary thanks:

body position
keep track of your tools
body position
and
body position

Don't forget to add a good solid throw of the PC to your list.

yeah, I hate my computer

one thing though, i just want to make sure i am getting this all, i dont feel like readin all the posts in this thread.

please confirm that cause of impact IS PC being tied up by pull up cord, failure to extract pins and canopy on time.

there was some bridal wrap talk earlier.

You know, you should just read the thread and draw your own conclusions. At least for now. I think the pullup cord thing {edit} can't be explicitly decided based on what I've read here and what I know about J but some could draw some very good lessons learned from the potential regardless. It seems likely to me, but the perfect proof would be the thing wrapped on the bridle as the crash site still {end of edit}

The head low, wrapped bridle around feet thing, though, isn't getting any flak from both people on site or those that knew him.

Take the basics as the experienced guys above noted: good body position, definitive PC toss,

as far as tool tracking, that's good to know regardless of whether it applies here (as far as lessons learned are concerned)

Edit: Because people are really freakin' literal and need to draw inferential conclusions to sleep at night.

The following was posted in the incidents forum:

I know, (but thanks) keep reading all three threads and you can draw your own conclusions. No one says we all have to agree on the causes, just so we take the lessons learned and do it better in our future.

In the incident forum Tom posts that he saw the still photos taken by a tourist on the overlook and can see a bit of orange on the pc with it restricted.

Joe was packing his pc with an orange pull-up cord.

I'd say that is reasonably conclusive.


eidt cause I clicked too fast

What it basically boils down to is two conflicting positions from the eyewitnesses, one of which is supported by photographic evidence. To accept the other eyewitness position wuld be foolhardy IMO. Video/stills is always better than "This is what I saw."

Drawing conclusions is great if that's what it takes for you to deal with it. Learning lessons and applying them is what works for me, instead. And many of these fatalities it still ends up with the basics. So practice the basics.

a good thing to spin off of this is the bad practices thread -

pissing over this specific comment is pointless - if it makes about 3 people feel better, I'll go back and delete the word WAY from in front of premature.

Its not about that. It sometimes see to me that the people who pick and choose what to believe about an incident (whether because of 'he wouldn't do that' or any other reason) are less likely to really examine the issues that lead to the incident. I feel that being clear on what happened is usually a solid first step in learning from it.

yeah we need some assistant's to summarize the longer threads for us ...

everybody 'picks and chooses' and most have good reasons. That they disagree with you doesn't automatically put their observations and reasonings in question. Nor does it mean they don't learn from it. There's two types of data - direct and inferential. Both can be learned from. People have a disturbing habit of claiming 'fact' from inferential. This is my only issue. I have no clue as to Joey's packing habits and am infering nothing from it. Only the video clues reported 2nd hand, that they need zoom and video edit to see the "bit of orange", the missing cord, etc are very suspect but not direct. So they have more risk involved in actually making a direct claim of causality. (Frankly, it sounds to me that the cord is an issue, but the original poster in this bit of string asked if it was the "Cause of impact" in effect - he glossed over the bridal wrapup - and that he had no time to draw his own conclusion - that was lazy, oversimplified, and I see a lot more going on than just a single packing error)

What happens if someone fesses up they borrowed the cord right before the jump and have it in hand - then you'd choose not to learn about PC packing techniques better? Now I'd think that's goofy.

Just because someone applies a different standard of risk based on the directness of the evidence from you doesn't mean their logic is based on emotion or lack of reason. I'll stop with this one, we're making little progress here.

Naaaah
I was prepared to give you the benefit of the doubt but I think you're just stirring here. I had been following the threads from the beginning when you told me to go back and read the rest.

You wrote

Tom wrote

While I do feel we should wait a little before jumping to any conclusions I am just struggling to understand what you are on about. You are even cracking jokes in a thread discussing the death of a friend of yours. What is your agenda, Bill?

 
I'll try to get copies of the photos from the sheriff's investigator, and post (scaled down to attachment size) copies here.Any luck on getting these yet??
321CYA
Sitflybaseboy

Some very cropped photos (pretty much just the jumper and PC), as well as my analysis of the (full) photos and my report on the gear, are attached.

Apologies for the low quality of these images. I had to reduce them quite a bit to size them for attachment on these forums.

If anyone wants better quality images, feel free to email or PM me with an address where you can receive approximately 5mb worth of attachments. The electronic versions I have are still not full quality (they are scans made from the prints the sheriff investigator had, rather than the very large and detailed files that were created from the 35mm negatives, and which I do not have in my possession).

They say a picture paints a thousand words. That pilot chute is clearly restricted from the offset.

I see this jumper was in the habit of reaching up in anticpation of his risers extending, which i know is very popular and has it's pros and cons. Does anyone feel that returning to box after pitching might counter the tendency to go head down in such an event and therefore lesson the chance of a bridle entanglement with the legs.


ian

I find reaching for risers causes me to start to move head high, but I also start to transition into a standing position when doing so. It's a habit from acrobatic training that I don't see any reason to change. However before I started training, the same thing happened to a lesser degree. If the opposite is true for you it just might be a dependent upon the individual.

The head high attitude is something i have observed too. However, in this instance, the deploying canopy didn't happen and so the jumper would then have experienced something quite unusual and unique - a prolonged moment in this inherently unstable position with no extended arms to create drag on the upper half of his torso. Combined with perhaps the slightest resistance from the pilot chute pulling at the bottom of the container, is it unreasonable to assume he would then naturally have been pitched head down and then had a leg wrap with the bridle.

Of course this is supposition but the purpose of this is to try to learn from this incident. I'm starting to think that the hands to the deploying risers is all well and good when the canopy deploys as anticipated, BUT should you experience a serious hesitation or an in tow, you're prone to serious instability when compared to returning to the boxman.

Of course we will never know whether the drag created by the un-inflated PC was ever going to be enough to pop the pins (or peel the velcro) but one thing is for sure. Once that bridle became entangled with a limb, those chances were seriously reduced.

No disrespect intended to anyone here. I just wonder if it's something you riser gropers might ponder? Consider and dismiss by all means, but i think it's at least worth considering.

ian

I've experienced a noticeable (3/4 second, perhaps) PC hesitation with my hands reaching for the risers, without my body position suffering unduly (when I then reached back and got my hand on the bottom of the shrivel flap, my body position was pretty much shot, but there you go...)

It was a fair discussion until you crossed that line, this is unwarranted and not productive. I'm done.

Tom - thanks for posting the analysis and pictures. No surprises there, I hope people learn from it.

Would someone please be so kind as to PM me Joey's family contact information so that I may contact his family. I know my dad was there to greet your friend when he got to the Big Blue Sky!!!

Thanks
Tina Schubert Lindebaum

Here are the higher resolution images Tom mentioned...

http://i5.photobucket.com/...s/TF_Fatality/01.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/...s/TF_Fatality/02.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/...s/TF_Fatality/03.jpg

Cleaned up a bit...
http://i5.photobucket.com/...atality/01_pshop.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/...atality/02_pshop.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/...atality/03_pshop.jpg

 

 

Thanks
321CYA
Sitflybaseboy