Basejumper.com - archive

Hello,
I had this conversation with Kramer a few months ago after he
witnessed all the carnage at the Twin Falls Memorial Day Boogie.

When we learned to BASE jump we were scared.
When we learned to BASE jump it was still a secret.
When we learned to BASE jump all the gear was black.
When we learned to BASE jump it was not done in public.
When we learned to BASE jump it was not for just anybody.
Nowadays the new young jumpers don't know crap about gear,
they don't generally seem to know about the history of BASE mods,
and they often seem to take very lightly the danger of injury and death.
We are the elite, the aged and active BASE jumper is truly a rare breed.

This comment came after some talk about the quality of the self proclaimed exsperienced BASE Jumpers at BD (non staff)

Where are we heading??????

have a GOWAYLOW day

Another conversation at BD on the van on the way to the top after 3rd jump. guy in back of van "WHO IS CARL BEONISH"??

guy in front of the van "you are so lucky there is alot of nylon between you and me right now".

guy in back of van "No really who is he".

this summs up BD day 2006 for me.

have a gowaylow day

why would you care if someone did not know who Carl Boenish was??

That is how people learn by asking questions. Why was it a good thing there was space between the two of you?

would you have been angry?

with age comes wisdom.... share it, if you have it.

So why would you even bother to post this in here? I mean... If you'r soooo "special" why would you even care to talk about it with all of us!

If there's anything like a breed of your kind, I can't wait to see you extinct.

So you think that... ohh... forget it... you'r not worth a longer comment.

Go get a hair cut... looser...

Gabe

why would you care if someone did not know who Carl Boenish was??

never said I cared!!!

Why was it a good thing there was space between the two of you?

the two of who??? I was just in the van

would you have been angry?

I don't get angry it's a waste of energy.

I'm not trying to deny the last comment, but I don't think it's fair to generalize that the new young jumpers have all those flaws.

ToyMaker isn't helping my stereotype though

to be a BASE jumper and not to know who is carl boenish or brian schubert is like to say :
i am a christ but who the fuck is jesus!!!!!

there are so many dudes jumping everything and know nothing about the sport, the ideals are when a velcro has to be replaced,....
but they jump a v-1 and aks "funny questions" on the forums...bahh

If any "young" jumper cannot respect what you guys introduced to the world is just a complete idiot. If any "Old" jumper cannot respect what evolution has done to the sport, then you are a complete idiot. If we can all just understand that there always has to be a 'first', then evolution, and there should be no conflict. I can only imagine how you guys felt jumping all of that experimental gear. You truly had real balls, and I thank all of you guys for all of your contributions. But as a 'young' jumper, I am happy to experience the new, safe technology, and innovations coming into this sport.
Wingsuit is just the beginning. We are pushing the limit too, and as evolution will progress; you have to respect what we are doing too.

You should be proud for what you have established, and watch it grow with pride.

peace

In 20 years my generation will be saying the same kinda stuff about the next crop of young whipper snappers crazy enough to huck themselves off of shit. "These kids don't even know who Dwain and Slim are." We'll fondly remember the days of F111 canopies, orbiting pilot chutes, offheading openings, etc. Nostalgia is a bittersweet bitch. Things never stay the same, but evolution is usually good. Enjoy your memories of the good old days. They can't be taken away and they are precious. Share them once in a while. We'd love to hear about them. Try to remember that what unites us all -- new and old -- are the feelings we get from this unique and beautiful sport. And take comfort in the fact that there are those among the newer generation who are still "keeping it real," but dz.com is the last place you would hear about it.

I loved that sign off during the BLiNC days.....

we are still here wingsuit in hand and continuing to shape the technologies you young jumpers have today and tomorrow. there just seems to be a lack of understanding of where we were and where we are now. With that lack of understanding comes REGRSSION
when a harness won't fit around my wheelchair I will give it up to you newbies

have a GOWAYLOW day

hey man,
If it wasn't for gowaylow, mac, mknutson, Ddog,JJ,Truckerbase and so many others I never would have found this sport to be possible to a mere mortal like myself(thanks Blinc). I've learned a ton from you guys, and appreciate all of it. I am a young (30)loudmouth punk, I admit that. But I respect everything you guys have done. There are plenty more like me also. But like a previous poster wrote... DZ.com is not where to find them, nor is BD. This board (and BD)is a source of entertainment, and i suppose knowledge for some. Don't hate on the ignorant, everybody needs to learn somehow and sometime. Don't worry, anybody I help along through their early stages will get plenty an earfull about those that pioneered our trail.

one key point, do you understand the equipment?

VBK earns serious respect for their efforts. others do as well.

some young jumpers do NOT understand what they do, spend little time thinking things through, and want to be told immediately the answer to every question.

this second group of jumpers give us all a bad name...

 
They call us problem child
We spend our lives on trial
We walk an endless mile
We are the youth gone wild
We stand and we won't fall
We're the one and one for all
The writing's on the wall
We are the youth gone wild

-Skid Row 1989

no shit Im right with u brother I was jumping 10 years before i made a base jump and my gear is black or camo and im a fucking porno star ninja

Yeah, you're something all right. Why do you write like that.

I'm relatively new the BASE (so take what I have to say with a grain of salt), and I do agree with many of the things you have said. However there is one thing that is kind of hard for the older more seasoned people to take and that it that the future of this sport is with the new blood. The future is with the young people. Hopefully the young people build the proper respect for this sport, but it is their destiny to take it where they wish to take it.

Some interesting comments / answers / etc in this thread.

Some general observations (IMHO):

- you just can't stop progress. All you can do is debate whether or not you spell it as "progress" or " regress". But there is no harm in trying if you feel strongly enough about where the future is heading.
- BASE Jumping has just hit 13 y.o. Yep, she's a teenager now. And she acts just like one. There are many parts to this teenager. There is the brain (these are the jumpers who do the right thing AND have fun). There are the arms and legs (well, these ones just get told to do what they should by the brain and the blindly follow). Then there is the . . . . . (these are the idiots people who just do what the hell they want without listening or caring for themselves or anyone else).
- self preservation???? Society in general is creating a mindset of we'll look after you and if you stuff up, we'll blame someone else and get some money off them. There are jumpers with this attitude today.
- people with a lack of interest or respect for anything other than themselves and the moment they are living in - continued theme from the point above. To me it's like having ethnic parents and totally ignoring their culture / language / history / etc in an attempt to assimilate totally into the society you live in. It is a personal choice that is up to the individual to make, but I think it is very shallow, lazy, empty, disrespectful, etc. How would you feel if you went in and everyone just said "who the hell was that . . . . and who cares"?
- BASE is now where skydiving was. And no matter which way you cut it, it is NOT a good thing when people do things with no understanding. It is just like getting married without truly knowing the one you love. People nowadays don't care because they know they have an easy out - divorce. I'm fine with that, but why the hell do people give forever commitments at the ceremony when there is a great chance they will not follow through. There is not much integrity in that. Why is this relevant? Because modern society has very little understanding or time for the things it does. Just like BASE jumpers. Unless you make some effort to understand what you are doing, why, etc, you will not have true respect for it and you will happily throw it away when it is convenient. Or if it bites you on the arse, and you end up dead / divorced, society will say things like: "it was inevitable", we knew the risks, etc. But does it?????? Do we??????
-


It does not mean it is right. There is freedom, and then there is ignorance. Expressing your freedom by risking your life for little gain is not smart. Risking it for great gain is admirable. Who gives a rats arse if you played frogger with traffic and ended up dead? We already know that running against the traffic will most probably lead to death. So do something more productive. Fly to the moon. Break a world record. Pioneer something.


There are always exceptions. But the reality of today is that people (i.e. jumpers) can do more than ever before . . . . . . . . . . but they understand less. It's kind of like kids today - they can work magic on computers but they do not know how to tell the time on a traditional clock or work out sums in their heads.

Is this a bad thing???? That is a matter of opinion. But the fact is, understanding and living the fundamental safety, ethics, and values of BASE jumping is vitally important to keeping any old OR new BASE jumper alive.

A triple inward with three twists is great. But if you can't choose sites appropriately, then it does not look so cool!!!!!


IMHO - First jump students???? That I can understand. But people with a little more experience should have some degree of knowledge of the thing they are participating in. If they say they love the sport, then they should know something about it. Unless it is not the sport they love, unless it is only themselves that they love, then I can understand why they would not know who Carl / DW / JM / etc are.

It is similar to a citizen not knowing who there president / prime minister / mayor is. To me it shows a total lack of awareness and respect for the skills, achievements, stewardship, etc of other people in society. And it is much harder to grow as a person, to progress, to become more that what you currently are if you do not know anything about other people.


In the end, I think gowaylow is just frustrated in that he wants people to know more and take better care of themselves when BASE jumping. He, like many others, has seen too many people drop dead in front of him. He also sees the potential of so many people who could contribute to our future, but they will not be able to because they will be stuck in a box 6 feet under somewhere.

If you have no respect for others, it is extremely difficult to have respect for yourself.

Stay Safe
Have Fun
Good Luck

Of course I understand my equipment. Only a dumb ass would participate in something as extreme as this on a whim. I think everything through, and the more I jump, the more I think about every little detail. Plus I have some great intelligent friends to jump with, and we all usually think things through and jump with a sound mind as a group. I have yet to be on a jump with my crew and not all come together collectively as a whole to make what we consider to be the best decision at the time.
Of course when I first started, I was too anxious, and did not always make the best of decisions. I think every jumper goes through this phase.
I really do appreciate all of the efforts from the past, and the present. To be quite honest with you, I don't know if I would have been a BASE jumper in the early 80's. In now days standards, and equipment, I feel more confident that it will work. We are basically just participating in a calculated risk now. Where as then, you guys were just hard fucking core. All the props in the world from me to all of you. Thanks!!!

Hey guys, this is Old Timer Rick Harrison. Great discussion and I totally agree that evolution of BASE and everything in life is inevitable. The newer skills, wing suits, techniques and gear are great. But remember, to be a good leader in any endeavor, politics, spots and BASE, you need to have an understanding of where we've been and how we started in order to know where we should go. This is the only way to prevent repeating mistakes of the past. People like Mick and Tom's sites are as important to this evolution as us old guys since sharing information world wide is critical to positive evolution. Anyway, I do believe being a whole BASE jumper involves more than just having the balls to jump off the edge although that is a big part that separates us from any other in the world. There is a "Spirit" of BASE we all need to hang on to.
Rick Harrison
BASE 38.

Thanks Tom,
That was very well articulated and the point that I was wanting to get across but just did not put it all together as well as you did.

I remember the day we were all jumping past DW hanging on the wall at the eagels nest. I had a 90 left and he yelled no room over here mate.

lesson learned! If DW is hanging from nylon on a wall find another wall to jump.

Have a GoWayLow day

Steve, I think that the young ones are and will write their own respect for the sport. the young ones, like me, are already teaching new young ones. I will alway respect the Pioneers, and i will always practice BASE with repect as i wa taught from a pioneer, but man, i dono whats going to happen.

Thanks for the comment Rick and thanks for keeping that SPRIT bound book under the mattress and up to date.

MUCH RESPECT

I would love to see it someday soon.

I AM A GREEN CARD CARRYING BASE JUMPER, SIGNED BY THE ONE AND ONLY "Carl Boenish "

If you don't know what this statement means you have some research to do on the sport you claim to LOVE.

base#449

The spirit of of base is way to strong to ever dissapear. It may be overshadowed by teams in flashy suits doing demo jumps for major beverage sponsors. But long after society realises that this shit is just too nuts to sell products with, there will still be plenty of folks that jump just for the freedom. every sport evolves...

my post is actually pointless. I just wanted the opportunity to respond to a post written by Rick harrison!!!! shiite.... I'm in a pseudo-cyber conversation with my idols, I even got a PM from someone I've looked up to before I ever even skydived. what a great sport, no hero is untouchable, where else can you party till the sun comes up in the hotel room of some guy who you thought youd never see other than the hours of video you own w/him in it? sure glad I don't play baseball

I have seen that book. I have to tell you, it was QUITE an honor!!! (That is an understatment....) Thanks Rick and Joy for allowing me to step back in the past with you. You don't know how much it really meant to me! You are one of the 'great ones'!!!

You guys need to ease up on the KNOW YOUR HISTORY stuff. Any young jumper would love to know about each of our preceeding base generations because unlike normal BORing history these are bitchen stories.

I am a pro skier. I ski, always have, I am good at it, I have deep love and respect for the sport of skiing; always have.

When I was driving to Kjerag with 3 skier/base jumpers I'd recently met. We drove thru a town called Morgedal, and another area called telemark. I then learned after 21 years of skiing that this was the birth place of modern day skiing, the ski resort and recreational skiing. I learned that words like ski and slalom were Norwegian words. I had never heard of Sondre Norheim before then and he was the man. He was the one who started extreme skiing or jumping off stuff with skis or just catching air one skis and having fun with it. He started it all and after skiing for 21 years i just learned all this for the first time. My home town of squaw valley even paid homage by having the olympic torch lit Morgedal first when Squaw hosted the olympics in 1960. I had no idea til I drove thru.

There was no disrespect in the car, no animosity, nobody thought that I had no business caling myself a skier or a pro or whatever. It did not matter because these guys were normal nice bro.s without the sort of high-horse attitude that base jumpers who like to think they are special have.

drop the attitude, go make BASE jumps, share a story if it comes up...

GOD what a long post I am such a dorkzoner these days. geez.

Before you go looking for the other wall, don't forget to take lots of photo's and laugh your arse off at him!! Sometimes in life priceless opportunities are singular and brief. Grab them. We gave him heaps of shit after that jump.

CYA

"Cause just like it is what it is, he is who he is.

I love that story. I'm already an old fuck but still new to BASE Jumping. But I love when "old" dudes like Tracy or Micke tell strories of the old days. Jumping was different back then and I don't know if I would have started under these conditions.
My respect to the pioneers of BASE.

I have a green card too ;) I use it for everything ... mostly when I'm driving.

Passenger: "bro, you realize that this is a one way street and the one way is actually the other direction?"
Me: "Yes I know, no worries I'm not that drunk and a have a certificate"

The nest story is funny, me and my team mate are hanging out on the campground looking at the jumps and my mate is just saying, someone is going to end up in the trees ... boom, there goes DW ... my mate, told you so :) then ... boom, another one ... my mate, as I said :)

And if we are talking about legends, my team mate is f__king legend :) old, supermany jumps (thats not Twin Fall jumps, real ones) unbroken and carry number 268

PerFlare
BASE 576
NightBASE 123

I have to agree with the holmes on that point.

On the one hand the 'yoof' are accused of wanting it all immediately but are simultaneously accused of not knowing their history immediately.

I'm finding stuff out every single day. Stuff that has never entered my field of vision before. I'll be honest. I'd never heard of Brian before the fatality this year, although i was generally aware of the historic el cap jumps. I thought i had a pretty decent grasp of BASE history too. Now however, for all the wrong reasons, i know, and i'm looking into it further and discovering more.

'Fly by night', 'fairweather', 'in it for the glory' jumpers don't need to learn about the roots of their past....why???...because they're not in it for the duration. Jumpers who are passionate and do love the 'sport' by that very nature, will eventually feel the need to look at their pedigree and absorb the history.

What we need to do is make sure spurious claims along the lines of 'Z was the first to ever jump X' or 'Z just made the lowest ever BASE jump' when we all know those claims are patently untrue, are instantly dismissed and consigned to the dustbin and never make it onto the historic record because once on there, it's very difficult to get them removed
and by their very existence they deny a true pioneer their rightful place.

ian

>>- BASE Jumping has just hit 13 y.o. Yep, she's a teenager now. <<

As a "sport" BASE jumping is 28 years old, and as a "stunt" it is a lot older than that . . .

NickD
BASE 194

U no wot I meen!!!!!!!!!!!!


Metaphoric relativity young man. Relativity.

Is JM Tom Manship?

I feel stupid for asking this, but can you give some more info on the Green Card. Is this something different than the BASE number card that is signed by Carl? Is your card actually signed? Are the BASE number cards green?

Yes.

No it is the same card. It is the Green BASE jumping card with my BASE # on it and yes it has Carl's signature on it. GOOD on you Mate. They were given out in the USBA days. Rick can help with the history here. I have only seen one other card out there. I bet rick has his still. I will try to take a picture of it and post it for you.

have a gowaylow day

Rick had more of them made, and they pretty much go out to everyone (again) now.

It's a nice piece of our history, and I'm glad it's being preserved.

It is the background setting on Rick's computer at his home.

Thanks, tom
That is great to know. I hope to see more of them out there in the future then. I thought they were all gone by now. Glad to hear you can still get one.

 

ya guys, i really dont have much to contribute here, i'm a "young" skydiver and now finally base jumper, making my measley first two jumps last week at BDay. but i do think that i have enough of a burning interest in the sport to throw in a few comments...i can definitely see where the experienced guys get pissed at new guys asking dumb questions like whos carl boenish, but is knowing who carl boenish going to make that person make the next jump safer...i still see the point, you should understand base history and its pioneers, absolutely, but its not the end of the world if somebody doesnt know that stuff. and with all, absolutely ALL respect to Brian, he wasnt a new jumper, he was an uncurrent jumper, i mean he's famous for practically starting this whole thing called base, he knew what the risks were. i'd expect people to say the same stuff about me should i have gone in at bridge day. "well that kid was a dumbass, he didnt have experience, he shouldnt have been there," well, i knew that i could have jacked up the whole jump and died, but luckily i didnt. so im' still here, thanks to God. i dont know, everyone likes to bitch about people dying, but nobody makes you jump, you can turn around at any point up until your foot leaves that exit point, its not a staff organizers fault, mentors fault, its your own, thats the whole point of this sport, isnt it?

i agree. i STILL dont know who Carl Bwhatever is, and i dont care. and i have been to Bday, have opened a lot of the objects i jump, and think i am pretty safe and polite about my jumping. and do you really think he cares that i dont know who he is? or is that just people bragging that they did know him.

I think it is the old BASE jumper that can blame himself that the "new" generation isn't prepared. People become mentors and take the extra time to teach...It isn't a noob that is asking you a question; it is an opportunity to teach and earn respect, so people will listen to you in the future. Do you think people care when a tenured base jumper says you can't jump that in the day or on weekends? The sport is going to keep growing expedientially and if you want it to remain the same then that is respectable but, you are also a fool. Change is going to happen, bad choices are going to get made and yes people are going to die. I would never jump at bridge day it isn't my style, seeing another jumper on a jump even bugs me, it is a for me sport. I don't knock people who video or even want to day blaze with 8 people that is what the sport is to them. I prefer to jump alone and have my memories for me.

If you want the Carl story out there then get it out there. Learn from the past and grow.
“The measure of success is not whether you have a tough problem to deal with, but whether it's the same problem you had last year.”
- John Foster Dulles

Just to clarify that if I offended anyone by thinking that I actually got to read any personal information in 'the book'...
I only got to see it, and see some of the history other than the contents of 'the book' itself... Which was still a huge honor. I know that there is tons of personal information in this book, and I don't think anyone will ever get to read it's contents. Just wanted to clarify that. Yes it IS sacred and it WILL remain that way.
Have a pull low day!!!
sorry, had to say it...
peace

Hello all,

The "Green Card" is available for anyone who qualifies (or has qualified in the past) for a number.
I think having it laminated is a good idea, especially if you keep it in your wallet.

Keep having fun!

Joy

yes you should definatly have it laminated!!! otherwise it just doesn't hold up like it should, or are we using it wrong? (see photo) works well to pick basic locks also!!

I think everything about that picture screams 'Magot'

Certainly the number on it.

-=Raistlin

I was going to try hard and get my 'B' because I am still not part of the historical link at this stage. But if this card is about money, guns and coke, I'll pass, thanks.

I would have to say in the conversations I have had with jumpers I have taught to BASE jump or help get their BASE # (there are a few out there), the history of the sport comes up. Ground crewing, watching videos of several jumps and just hanging around to learn all the different rigging techniques that we have learned to use over the years is important so we don't repeat the past. This is kind of like the Bonfire at the DZ. You will learn things that only a seasoned jumper has the knowledge of. You get a lot of information you would not otherwise have access to on these long nights on the radio. These are the things that will keep you alive in your early years. In these conversations, the “who did what and when” always comes up and the first name mentioned is always "Carl". I feel some of these FJC have bypassed this source of knowledge. Not that they are BAD, just different than the way things were. Only time will tell where this takes us and our issues with access. The internet and FJC have changed this part of the sport a lot. Thanks (Mick) for your early efforts. I know I would not be here typing this if I had not had the mentors I did. We have come a long way and I want to see more people enjoy the freedom of Suicide without the commitment. May you all have long BASE jumping careers.

When I was a Skydiver (yes I said it) I would hear these Base jumpers talking about their jump the night before and every story began with “I thought I was going to die, then this happened or I did this and lived”. It seemed as though every jump was life or death. I used to think to myself there is no way every jump is like that.
Well now that I am a BASE jumper I have those stories and that is no SHEIT!!!!!!

Have a GoWayLow day
Packed and walking out the door!

I couldn't agree with you more..

Double packed and walking out the door!

gee.... was it the ninja stars that gave it away?

wait until someone burns your favorite object dayblazing...

or some ill-prepared jumper learns of it from a video and goes in...

oh, and knowing names is not critical to safe jumping. being aware of your equipment, what has been tried before, etc. WILL help keep you injury free.

I'll take a new jumper ignorant of the founders over one ignorant about configuring their equipment!