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After looking over the "Favorite BASE pics" thread, I noticed more and more shots of people not wearing helmets on their jumps. I realize this is nothing new as some people have not worn the brain cap since day one.

Just wanted to get some input from those who don't wear a helmet. Do you want to look cool? Are you TO cool to wear one? To me (of course my opinion), it seems FUCKING STUPID!!!! I wear a shit load of body armor on 99% of my jumps. The exception comes when I'm climbing a 1500+ ft. A, or jumping in the "Valley", Norway, etc. where weight really matters on long hikes. However, I would NEVER leave the helmet behind. Other than a rig it's the most important peice of body armor I own.

I was on the full tour for the Malaysia jumps this year. A helmet and knee pads were REQUIRED for every jump. I thought that was great, to practice safety and make it a requirement.

Keep it safe ya'll.

Helmets, armor and safety gear are very personal choices. While you may have your opinions, others do as well, and their own choices regarding protective gear are theirs and theirs alone.

You've, obviously, made your own choice regarding this topic, and no one's asking you to change your mind. You may consider extending the same courtesy and respect to others, as your personal ancedotal example is limited in scope, relevance, and persuasiveness.

Events such as the those held in Malaysia are organized events where agreements have been made with the owners of the objects. An aspect of those agreements are that jumpers will follow certain rules and regulations, one of which is wearing protective gear.

However, the sport of BASE is not regulated, or really all that organized. Very few agreements are made with the owners of objects, and even then, very few rules or regulations have been imposed. The choice to stuff a piece of nylon and strings into a little container on your back (or to just hold it your hands, unpacked) and jump is a personal decision made by each jumper.

While you may be in favor of 'requiring' jumpers to wear protective gear, you have no authority to do it. There are many individuals, jumpers and non-jumpers alike, who post with strong opinions about how other jumpers should conduct themselves in (and sometimes out) of the sport. These desires to regulate the behavior of others tend to lead towards frustration and disappointment.

--

An argument that has been made against wearing protective gear (and please understand I'm not championing it, or defending it, merely presenting it) is that body armor can restrict body movement. For example shoulder pads on certain models of body armor can prevent a jumper from easily reaching their toggles or risers. Certain spine protectors can make achieving a good arch difficult. The added bulk of the armor can prevent the rig from fitting properly. Helmets can limit vision and the ability to see thing peripherally. At a romantic level, for some people BASE is about the minimal level of equipment required to achieve human flight, and that minimalism brings pleasure to them.

Again, I'm not championing the above, nor will I engage in arguing against any attacks against the above. If you wanted information, now you have some to consider. (if you want an argument, perhaps someone else will provide one. ;-))

-=Raistlin

well, shit. I wear a helmet hang gliding and paragliding, and on most base jumps. at the potato, i only sometimes wear more tha flip flops. in moab, 99% wear a helmet, kneepads. but never more than that. low jumps ar kinda pointless to me,

you know What! YOUR FUCKING STUPID FOR CALLING ME FUCKING STUPID!

i cant wait to get banned for that joke.

just keep wearing your helmet homeslice and shut up.

Well, it's a very personal thing. But it's actually doesn't matter -- you can wear it or you can skip. Protection is a psychological thing. It will protect you only from the little scraches.I can understand both protected and unprotected jumpers. I've made my first 100 jumps without any protection. And i felt free and happy. But then i choose to wear full protection -- helmet, knee and elbow pads, back pad. My reasons were:
-- i promise to some of my friends to remember about safety
-- i started to do acrobatics and that was scary and protection helped me to concentrate more on the trick i gonna perform and not to brake my concentration with the worries about shitty landing/trees/little stones and stuff. "I am full protected and i don't care about where and how to land. I am bombproof"
-- i started camera jumps and being full-protected i film better because i look like a "real camera man" from my dreams. Protection make me feel better and feed my spirit in camera jumps.

ok... another hundred of jumps

now i wear only helmet and knee pads. Because i don't wanna hurt my knees -- am a girl and i wear short dresses some time and hemathomas (?) looks nasty and i need my legs unhurt -- fast walking is a part of my job, i'm not an office worker.
And helmet -- because i still need my stupid head -- even if it's brainless. It's a very important part of my body -- i use it for eating and kissing. I will die if i'll be unable to eat and kiss. I have to protect it.
Edited to add: and i also wear my no-camera helmet because it's cool-looking. There are some cool stickers on it -- the picture of little ironic and evil creatures -- i love 'em they are my littlle friends. And i also do snowboarding wearing this helmet. And my camera helmet is cool too -- with the skulls on stickers
And, thanks god, my butt is big and soft -- i can land on it pretty cool without any additional protection.

I'm with you on the full body armour and helmet business. The first time I wore body armour, it was from an "easy" object, and I was wearing it primarily because I'd bought the stuff months before and was feeling like a bit of a retard for never having done the jumps I bought it for. It saved me significant injury, I'm sure, on that first jump.

... Since then, I've worn it even on the "easy" stuff. I can say with complete confidence that without armour and a good helmet, I would not have survived my most recent jump from the Potato bridge, of all places.

In short, I wear armour, and I question the wisdom of not wearing it. That said, I've seen heads-up jumpers who jump without. BASE jumping has its fair share of retards. But it would be a mistake to assume, just because you and a buddy are jumping together and you're the only one wearing armour, that he's the retard.

Even a relatively minor bump to the head can change who you are...forever.

Hmmm.... 9.5 months ago i hit my head so hard, that ANY harder, i would be dead or vegi, and i dont feel ANY different right now than i did last year. Freinds and Family agree that i have not changed at all. I was wearing a helmet as well. a really nice helmet.

Wear a what?

By no means was I implying that a helmet should be required. And for damm sure I was not implying that BASE should be regulated in ANY way. If you know me, I'd be the last person to want that. Just wanted to hear some opinions of the regular dorkzone users.


Lastly, all you fuckers out there who choose not to wear at least a helmet good luck and don't burn in!







I'm stoked for 1st light tomorrow AM. YEH-HA!!!

Good canopy control should be your first layer of armour to prevent landing injuries. If you don't have that the best pads and helmet can do is limit the damage, but it won't keep you safe.

And if you weren't wearing a helmet, you'd be dead. Period.

I know several people who have suyrvived closed head wounds. Somw are fine. Some get headaches with loud noises or bright light.

I know a dude who did a back flip at his senior prom like 7 years ago but screwed up and hit his head. After he woke up from his coma, he couldn't talk for 3 weeks. He still can't smell or taste...7 years later. Other than that, he has no ill effects.

It's different every time.

I always smile when I see jumpers wearing kneepads but no helmets.

yeah. I know. sigh, sometimes i wish... nevermind. other injuries from that day will haunt me forever.

Edit to add-
I spent 3 months in a brain injury hospital. I saw other guys that were not wearing helmets. it haunts me still. helmets are good.

....not only helmets, but foot wear too.........

It makes me cringe to see people jump in their "safety Vans"....

It only takes one bad landing to give you degenerative arthritis and swollen pain for the rest of your walking days...

Long live helmets and hanwags...

[reply
Long live helmets and hanwags...

I was wearing HanWags. one month old ones. and i will limp for the rest of my life. I had such an injury that had i NOT been wearing hanwags, i would have had a much less life-altering leg injury. The boots kept the bones inside my skin. thats it.

PM'd

Cant be arsed to talk about injuries on a public forum

Edit: Dont waste your time to bother to respond to my PM as I wont waste my time responding.... just read the other posts you have made and to be honest, I cant be arsed to talk to you.

I am bombproof"

Humm..... Thats odd. I thought I was

replied beforei saw this. no worries mate.

Only one jump without a helmet as i'd forgotten it -and the choice between a 30s jump or a 3 hour hike back was pretty clear...

Seems f*cking stupid not to wear one if at all possible, both for skydiving and base.

Im a vampire. I thought i was invincible. i guess not. well, stake, garlic, etc. gravity as well. damn

come on.....
its a question of personal choice, thats all....
some people ride a motorcycle without a helmet, jeans and t-shirt...others look like a starshiptrooper.
others never get laid without a condom
so whats the problem?
sure,....bodyprotection is a good idea...
but its a free world,...shoud be...

you know what is fucking stupid?
it makes no sense to make some jumps with and some without armor because :

oh,...its a long climb,so i leave it on the ground.
puh,...its so hot ,this time it will work without.

thats stupid.....you wear it everytime because on every jump it can be usefull....thats an attitude...
get real....

Forgive me for I have sinned. But thanks for reminding me of my infidelity to the sport. I am pro Battle gear. But…… (pause while base283 breaks open excuse book)
My last helmet crapped out linerwise. I bought a new one in Panama for a building jump there and it is total crap. It is a tracking brake. Its profile is designed for “riding a bicycle” airflow. Not “tracking” airflow” which equates to a 90 deg offset. I can’t track as far. It actually helps me maintain a less than optimal head down crap track whilst braking my fwd speed cutting my distance from opening point to object. So the very thing that I should use to prevent head injury may create the situation where I need it. So what shall I do?

All Helmets on the market except for speed skiing I think, are not very aerodynamic for tracking or wingsuiting. The airflow in these modes are perpendicular to riding a bike, paragliding, or skatesports. I have limited my crap helmet for low jumps because it craps out my tracking. I am looking for a good tracking helmet though and it’s hard to find something better than no helmet.
Let me know if you know of any.

I was recommended “Factory Diver”. What are yalls opinion on this? Shall I just say fuckit and build my own line of helmets?
Let me know because I feel like crap for not wearing a helmet on any jumps.
Thanks in advance,
space

I'm a Factory Diver addict FD has saved my life once, no chance I'll make a single jump without.

I've worn a helmet on virtually every legal jump I have made and often left the helmet at home on the less-than legal jumps (not that I've made that many less than legal jumps). Why? Well I always want to side on the side of safety when it comes to jumping. But wearing a helmet does raise some suspicion on those less than legal jumps. Kind of like "excuse me sir, why are you wearing a helmet in my hotel staircase and what's in that funny looking backpack of yours?".

Why don't you keep the helmet inside the stash bag until you are ready to gear up?

There's a certain less-than-legal span that I've not so recently jumped where myself and the other people who I jumped it with all agreed that while we were doing our best to be good stealthy BASE jumpers at this site, there is a time when you are exposed to car traffic just as we're about to jump and we thought wearing helmets would raise suspicion that we were BASE jumpers using this span. But you can make the argument that we do look like potential suicidal people when we're on the other side of the rail prior to jumping without helmets. With helmets we look like BASE jumpers, without out them we are suicidal. What can I say you can't win either way. But we tried to use this site responsibly and to my knowledge it's not a hot site. While I know he will deny it, for arguments sake it's pretty much Jaap's site so he can tell you more about it if he wishes. It's a fun jump.

Lots of people - maybe even the majority - won't narc you out for BASE jumping.

Pretty much everyone with a cell phone is going to call the authorities if they believe they just witnessed a suicide.

It's not his site. There are many other locals using it, you just never jumped with them.

Jaap did change his mind on the helmet thing and has used one there again. The main reason for not using a helmet there at one point was not for the climb-over-the-railing (you're pretty much fucked and seen by that point anyway), but for the approach. This particular object has an approach with high visibility. A full-face helmet adds a lot of bulk to a stashbag, whereas just a rig looked essentially like a small backpack.

But I digress. It's not Jaap's site (he doesn't jump it anymore), nor is it mine. I believe it's mainly used by the other locals these days.


I've seen cops appear on the bridge twice, despite wearing helmets (and fiddling with a static-line long enough to make it blatantly obvious we were not suicide jumpers). Some people just love being NARCs.

Of course I am joking when I say that it is Jaap's site. I only do this to bring him out of the wood work. And as I said, damned if you do and damned if you don't wear a helmet at that site. It is a fun jump.

I remember in Norway, a jumper was jumping without a helmet. Had an off heading, and a very slight contact with the cliff itself. I am certain a bar fight would be a harder hit than what this was....

However, it provved just enough force to crack the globe of his eye, and well.......So much for using that eye EVER again!

Funny thing is, he owned a hard helmet, but would only wear it skydiving.

I was wearing HanWags. one month old ones. and i will limp for the rest of my life. I had such an injury that had i NOT been wearing hanwags, i would have had a much less life-altering leg injury. The boots kept the bones inside my skin. thats it.
So if I read that right, you are saying that wearing Hanwags exacerbated rather than mitigated your leg injury? Could you explain why?

did you ever skydive whithout a helmet,shoes etc etc?
you feel more free on the jump itself.

I do use helmet on 99% of my jumps aslong whith my kneepads..

but i do understand why people want to experience the no helmet jump.

Its about calculating the risk,is it worth it? then do it,if not wear a helmet..

Yeah, factory divers are great. Just take out the crappy shield and you're good.

also, on a high speed water impact, a helmet increases the projected impact area of a head. therefor, making it decelerate faster than if it had no helmet on. but that might be the only safety argument against a helmet. other than weight and whiplash on a deep slideroff opening.

Following my brother's accident at the bridge earlier this year, in which he landed on his back in the water, one of the things that surprised us was that there was absolutely no damage to his helmet. I'm not sure if we would have recognized the symptoms of whiplash, but there was no damage whatsoever to his head and neck, either.


Several years ago, 587 and I were jumping a low span. In the search for better head protection, he tried a motorcycle helmet. On that object we were hitting the ground pretty hard, and on impact his head kept moving because of the momentum of the helmet. His neck was quite sore for a few days.

Still, I think that's a good reason to jump fairly lightweight helmets, rather than jump without.

Michael

well, yeah. i mean, how damaged would a helmet be from a terminal or faster water impact? the helmet is damaged by a single point impact where the helmet slows the head down quickly and spreads the force on head throughout the helmet. on a water impact, the helmet hits the water and has almost equal force over the projected area of the helmet, making it almost useless for a water impact.

That I have a hard time to believe.

Care to give us more details?

I guess Jason's back protector was useless too having seen he impacted water.

thats incorrect.
the POINT of a back protector is to lessen the cahance of a back breaking lengthwise, and a small bit of puncture type protection.
The ONLY job a helmet does is lessen the deceleration of the head. not keep it in its correct place.

think about shit before you post it.

i have explained my doctors and my thoughts on this a lot on dorkzone, the reason it is again under conversation in this thread amazes me.

likewise.

keep your panties on girls, helmet or not is your choice, yes a helmet will help if you got a off heading and hit, but if you know how to fly the damn thing you might be ok, so note to self... don't hit the wall...now shut up and jump...

I don't actually know enough about the dynamics of water impacts to say. I've heard a lot of people say that hitting water at that speed is like hitting concrete, but I have a feeling those people are exaggerating the point somewhat. You may well be right.

One other thing that comes to mind regarding helmets is unusual, but perhaps worth metioning. When I got to Jason about 15 seconds after he had hit, he was lying face-up in about a foot of water. He had never lost consciousness, but was in very rough shape. His head was being kept afloat by the foam in his helmet. Had this not been the case, I really don't think he would have been able to keep his own head above water. It's not the sort of thing you plan for, but I would say it's at least as important as the increase in projected area. Although there are a lot better reasons to get a helmet with proper crush material (as opposed to a shell with a thin padded lining), I've added this one to my own mental list.

Michael

I find these helmets to be ideal for tracking...

Chris

There seems to be plenty of good reasons to wear a helmet. Besides personal choice, has anyone come up with a good reason not to wear a helmet?

There seems to be plenty of good reasons to not BASE with or without a helmet.
Aside from persoanl choice has anyone come up with a good reason to jump off shit??

one less thing to remember to bring to the jump.
one less thing to lose.
one less thing to put in the wrong place.
one less thing to put on at the exit.
one less thing to put in the stash bag after.

thats five less thoughts ...

Because it's fun. I've always wanted to fly and it fulfills part of that. In my mind parachutes are cool.

The example you use is a crock of shit. Skateboarding is dumb if you use that example. Mountain bike riding is dumb if you use that example as well. So is motorcycle racing and many other activities.

Either one of those sports have been proven to be safer with the use of proper armor.

Back to my original question....

Nice try.. I said good reasons.

Is that your excuse for forgetting the muffs, you were this >< close........

Comparing Mtn biking and skateboarding to BASE is a crock of shit!

but i was genuinely proud of remembering the radio

Maybe a longer reply would clear up my thoughts to you.

If you read my first post would would have seen that I personally am in favour of helmets and armour. When people have asked me, I have always advocated the use of such said equipment. I did not anywhere in my posts speak to the injury rate of armour vs. no armour!
I would dare say there is a huge difference between Mtn biking/skateboarding and BASE for the avg. participant in each respective activity. I have jumped with people that use helmets and people without, whatever.
As for my second post that seemed to get U bunched up, it was a read between the lines kind of thng, meaning .... what one man views as freedom or ecstasy, another views as STUPID. I love BASE too and for the same reasons as you and more but the MAJORITY of the world would say/think it is a stupid thing to do. I think U are agreeing with the original poster that jumping without is stupid?!?!
Throwing yourself off big things is crazy! I frickin love it but let's face it, BASE is not normal behaviour by any stretch of the imagination.
It goes well against our programming to stay alive. Yes, I know...so does alot of shit, BASE is not alone there at all.

"""""""""""""" His head was being kept afloat by the foam in his helmet. """""""""""

a very good point.

Ha-ha... Not in the least. Would emoticons (like this one ==> == or ==>)make my tone sound lighter This is the internet... I'm not truly concerned about a forum conversation but I have some time on my hands to write a question and offer an opinion. I'm in favor of armor so I was wondering what a genuine good reason not to wear a helmet or other body armor. Personal decision is a reason but it's not necessarily a good reason.

Terminal impact to water certainly isn't on the spectrum of reasons not to wear one.... oops... almost forgot the laughy guy


Yes I agree with him. I won't bother infringing on someone’s right to bash their head into a rock but I certainly agree with him. I'm part of the reason he wears full battle gear when he jumps. If you don't want to, that's fine. I've used my armor. I've only crashed once so far. I can walk and live my life normally. If I did not have it on that jump, specifically a spine protector, at minimum, walking again wouldn't have been an option. Instead, it knocked the wind out of me and I took ibuprofen for a few days.

Tim
I won't attempt to speak for your experiences but for me I prefer to jump without. I have been involved with some of the worst the sport has to offer. In every incident I have witnessed where we lost a friend a helmet would have done nothing...correction, the helmets did nothing. I'm not saying that helmets don't work but in the big picture they are only good for impact up to a certain speed. We get off on chucking ourselves off objects that without a timely deployment of equipment, we would be killed. Everytime we step off we are moments away from total annihilation and we know it. Yet we hope that by protecting our vital organs we will somehow avert potential catastrophe. Well we might or we might not. I strongly believe as I have experienced over the years, that if we continue to jump we will eventually secumb to plain old bad luck.
"Pad up and pound in" all you want but your number is out there,it's just a matter of time. That goes for any incident in BASE. The only way to prevent serious injury and or death is to not jump. I personally prefer the minimalist approach to jumping. I do on occasion wear protective gear if the event requires it but for me it's purely decorative. If it's in the cards that I bash my head and become a vegetable then so be it and that could be said for surfing big waves at reef breaks too but no helmet either. It really is everyones choice how they want to live their lives but when I hear people say how they think anyone who doesn't wear a helmet is an idiot that kinda bums me out. This sport for all intents a purposes is an outlaw sport. There is no controlling government body to regulate what we do or how we do it. It's my right to do as I please so for someone to criticise my actions doesn't bode well for the future especially if we do find ourselves facing regulation. We've all had brushes and been touched by death but we're all still here. I will continue to jump with nothing but some comfortable shoes and a rig, it's my life and I love it.
Matt

If your talking about a cliff strike though, or landing in rocky terrain, that helmet could mean the difference between a punch to the head and a stab in the head. Same goes for your internal organs with body armor.

And if we keep seeking better equipment, with advances in technology we can get even stronger helmets that can turn very high speed pointy object impacts into a blunt thud to the head.

This is the internet so remember that people often post when they have little time to post. The words fly and the Post Reply button is pushed for all to read. I do that sometimes too.

Your post is good. I don't agree that people jumping without are idiots by the way. It does read that way above but it's not exactly what I meant so I'll type a bit slower this time.

I personally think pads SHOULD be worn, but like I not so casually put it previously, it's up to you.

Having grown up doing probable impact sports and wearing and using pads the entire time, it's pretty engrained.

Matt, since you know me personally, I’m sure you realize (or at least I hope you do) that I don't care how you do what you do. We've jumped many of the same objects and many different ones as well. So far we're both still here. Just try and keep it that way.

I fully agree Tim. My popst was never wholly directed at you but at the vast throngs of readers many of whom have very a very distinct view point but seeing as you asked for "One good reason" I figured I'd give you mine. I know we've jumped a lot of the same objects and I relish the memories I just choose the Air In My Hair. Impact is always iminent, in everything we do I guess it all boils down to how each of us mentally prepares for it. See at an exit some day soon eh.

Last august I had a towerstrike in KL. I hit the wall pretty hard. The right side of my helmet was cracked from top to bottom. My skull wasn't...I'm sure my helmet saved my life or at least prevented heavy brain damage...

six : helmets make my hair look crappy.

I'm only replying to the last post...

check in the BASE Fatality list number 17, 20 and 47...

I also had a wall strike this year. I was wearing a helmet, body aromour and knee pads. I got away without a scrach (but with a hughe bill for an expensive helicopter rescue) and I'm sure it would have looked different if I would had not worn these things...

 
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one less thing to remember to bring to the jump.
one less thing to lose.
one less thing to put in the wrong place.
one less thing to put on at the exit.
one less thing to put in the stash bag after.

thats five less thoughts ...

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six : helmets make my hair look crappy.


seven: One less thing the MAN can confiscate.

That's the first good reason I have heard.

Edit to remove sig line

96 for example had a helmet. For sure. It didn't save him.

Yes there are more pro's than con's to helmets and other body armour, but everyone should make his own educated choices. Like the RSL/AAD etc etc etc dicussions.

Also my opinion. I don't care a bit if my jumping buddy wears a helmet or not. Most of the time I wear one and sometimes not and thats it.