Basejumper.com - archive

Don't read too much into this but I'm wondering who thinks the BASE Zone has run its course and should be abandoned? I ask because the question has been coming up in conversations, PMs, and e-mails of late.

The topic description for the BASE Zone is a bit ambiguous: "If you plan to try your hand at BASE jumping make sure you know what you're getting into. BASE jumping is extremely dangerous and you should clearly understand the risks before you think about it, whether you're a skydiver or not!"

Some will say the BASE Zone is a place for prospective BASE jumpers to get help and advice. Others say it's just a place for BASE jumpers to hang out and chat. I'm not sure that lately it's been either of those things.

For myself, I think it does help those who can read between the lines, but it probably turns off those that can't. So we are probably starting as many fires as we are putting out.

And while there are some of us that try and help anyone who asks, maybe we should be funneling these folks directly to the BASE gear manufactures and others who hold established first BASE courses.

Tom has already mentioned the very real security concerns, so I won’t go there.

We are listed here under "related sports" but those relations (skydivers & BASE jumpers) are kind of strained and we are also squabbling among ourselves. Maybe replacing the BASE Zone with Paragliding and those guys who run down hills with Stilettos would serve Dropzone.com better.

I'll admit the one reason I'd like to keep it going is purely a selfish one. I float a lot of ideas here that will someday be in the BASE book I'm writing. The flames that sometimes ensue, the well meaning and the not so well meaning, often make me re-think a position so for me this place serves a purpose.

Of course, it's HHs call in the end, but if the vote is thumbs down I think enough of us would leave and the BASE Zone would die on the vine like the BASE Board did.

So there it is . . . Do we stay, or do we go now?

NickD
BASE 194

How about moderators? Or at least a new "one".

Honestly this is the moderators board, they are god on this site, he can change, delete, manipulate as they see fit. The trick is to find someone who has nothing to gain politically, financially, and has enough integrity to remain impartial and enforce the rules.

In its current state I don't think everyone is represented fairly on the board.
How about a moderator who doesn't know any of us, this way he could enforce the rules without personal relationships getting in the way. Not that Im in favor of censorship, but if the current rules stay in affect this person could blindly enforce policy.
or
How about changing the moderator every so often.

Barry,

If you have a problem with Tom, or me, or anyone else, lay it out there. Or is that not an "efficient use" of your time? LOL . . .

NickD
BASE 194

The comments regarding the moderation of forums is as old as forums are. Since the early days of BBSs (for those old netters who know what those are) moderators have always been under attack by the members of the community. Over the past 13 years I've been a part of many forums and seen many different styles of moderation, and Tom's is about par for the course.

You can find better examples of moderation and you can find worse, although Tom does a reasonable job of moderating this forum. To my knowledge he isn't paid to do so, he doesn't receive any compensation for investing the mountains of -time- he does into providing this environment. In fact it isn't even -his- forum, it's Sangiro's and Tom is volunteering to run it in a manner that is consistent with Sangiro's goals. And yet every day Tom gets up in the morning and spends time in front of his computer reading and moderating everything that comes through this forum, I can't imagine he enjoys it all the time either, but he lives up to his commitment to do it.

As with any community: if you don't like the way this one is run, go start your own. If you think -you- can provide a better forum, then go make one. No one is stopping you from forming your own website and forum. If you're curious what's involved talk to Sangiro, or Mick Knutzen. Ask them what their server/colocation/bandwidth bills are like. Ask them how many hundreds of hours go into creating such a forum, and how much work and money goes into their routine maintenance. Strangely, lots of people complain and few actually take action to offer something better... even more impressive few actually leave the environment they complain about. Actions speak louder than words, and in reality they must not think it's that bad... if they did they wouldn't come back. It's akin to constantly going to a restaurant that serves food you hate, complaining about it, and continually going back for more.

In the end, most enjoy complaining without taking any action. Most enjoy whining about what 'could be better' without ilfting a finger to make it better. Talk is cheap and internet posts are even cheaper. If you don't like the way things are run, go do it better. :-)

Just my unsolicited two cents.

-=Raistlin

While it certainly is popular around here to scream "foul" at the moderator, my experience has been that posts and threads that are helpful, technical, or discuss a subject which hasn't become bonfire material are never deleted. Posts that suggest "creative" uses for a t-stake or advertise site names in ALL CAPS are sometimes, but not always, removed. And with all due respect to those involved (because some of them are friends), I'm not sure I've ever seen a user banned who couldn't reasonably have seen it coming.

I'm not saying the moderation here is always blind or impartial, but I've seen plenty worse in the time I've spent on forums, and little if any better.

Anyway, I've always enjoyed checking this forum and continue to do so. If certain people out there don't enjoy it, or feel that information shared here might be hazardous to the BASE community, then it's within their rights not to check it, and not to post.

Im just a small drop of water in a thunder storm, but totally agree with you. I don´t see how the negative votes in here actually reflect the real need of the active members in this Board... If people are reading this thread and voting "no", then why are they here in the first place! I would think that if some poeple read this Board (... and anyone can tell that there's a huge bunch of them (I do)), its because they find it useful, fun or a whole lot of different reasons BUT disposable and/or meaningless.

The way I see it, the Server is here and running, Hard drive space is pretty cheap now days and I don't see anyone getting hurt, killed or locked in a mental institution because of this Board. (Oh yeah... besides the ones that were locked long before getting a login acount in here. ).

That said, I don't see why the moderator should take the blame for any of this...

2c's from Chile
Peace.

Gabe

Holy sheep-shit Batman....two logical and lucid posts in a row! I'll ride the coat tails of Raistlin and Jay's posts....well said.

No way i love the base board. I was unconnected due to moab this weekend and now instead of working i can entertain myself all week on the 50+ new threads i have to catch up on. Seriously though, i love it.

'Reading Between The Lines', it looks like you have been taking some of the 'BLINC Battle' you have been involved in to heart! Is this a cheap shot at Nick's call to revive the 'BASE Board'?
I run with the other comments on this - we got choices and we can pick and choose. Nobody makes us read a particular forum and I think it 'odd' that it is suggested to leave a particular forum 'on mass' without an overwhelming argument as to why? Please elaborate why I need to leave this evil place.

I put on my events for the people that want to come not the ones that stay home.If people are not happy let them start a new forum.


.

OH MY GOD

I'm not advocating moving over to the BASE Board as I'm always a forward and never back sort of person. If there was a migration it would probably be to one of the password protected sites. And if it happens it won't be me doing it. It will just happen naturally like when winter comes.

I was just curious to see what the thinking was. And I mentioned upboard don't take this to heart.

But, I guess that didn't work . . .

NickD
BASE 194

Any relation to Ray Laird, no offense Ray. If Abbie is reading he'll probably get a kick out of that.

In all honesty, I think that another moderator here is a great idea. Tom is good, but sometimes he is a little agenda driven, and he clearly lets those who share his opinions get away with so much more than those who don't.

I think I would be a great moderator for this forum as I would help create a little balance.

I'd try really, really hard to do a good job, so if anyone agrees that I should help Tom moderate this board, let Sangria know.

The Perrine Bridge has become the DZ of BASE jumping.

And the same old DZ baloney/politics are spilling over into the real world . . .

NickD
BASE 194

You may find it amusing that two of the people I've banned the most often are Cornishe and Treejumps (both of whom I hang out with more than weekly).

I'm curious if you think that those two "share my opinions"?

Your not the first to say that Tom is biased in some way, and speaking of agenda, it seems that you want to be a moderator. Does anyone have an example of Tom's Agenda driven ways, or any example of how he lets friends get away with things that he doesn't let others?

of all the things to admit to.......

Interesting to see that the discussion went the moderators way...

While there are several base forums around, they tend to serve a "national" background (jumpers, sites, guidelines, etc.) As far as I can remember (and I am only human), the base zone served the aussie community, got popular, and served the global group. Now, based on the number of posts, and my gut feeling, it seems DZ.com is the leading base forum.

For what it is worth, I tend to support one "global" base forum. If there is one, and it has that status: perfect. Besides, there can be 192 more "national" ones. (UN countries count). With that in mind, I see no reason to close down the base zone. And, if nobody posts there anymore, things will work out by themselves. And, I don't see a change of moderator will change that course.

Ronald

My vote is unequivocally in favor of keeping the forum up and keeping Tom as the moderator.

I know little of the politics in mainstream Base but what I do know is that Sangiro and Tom, both whom I have never met, deserve a vote of thanks for enabling this forum to exist. I would also take this opportunity to thank Nick DG for some very interesting history lessons.

I certainly wouldn't have the time or inclination to offer such a service especially over the long haul and in all truth I doubt many others would either.

John

Are those guys getting permanently banned? IP banned?

doubt it.

and what's this I hear about Tree moving to Twin? didn't I tell him to stay off my bridge???? i guess it is not mine anymore, so i can shut up.

My two cents is that this base zone has been really boring ever since CLIFHUCKSTABLE got permbanned and IP banned and got a daughter and a life outside the computer. totally feeling lonely. un ban him and send an email luring him back and then put jimmy H on to balance the forum and we are good to go.

running OR moderating a forum is a thankless job. people will always complain. a different moderator will bring a different flavor, but would it honestly be better?

before changing moderators, consider adding another one...

please remember, the forum is really determined by the participants. we change it by what we contribute. it could be technical, social, or gibberish. it really is our call. we can end it by stopping our participation.

I think this forum does serve as a meeting place for like minded people. kinda like a biker bar. we can chill, admire each others efforts, argue, fight, etc.

without a common meeting place, the sport would become far more fractured and cliquish.

as the common ground, this forum is the first stop for many. it naturally will have a newbie flavor. as jumpers progress, they may very well outgrow this site. there is a noticable cycle in many particpants usage... ask a ton of repetitive questions, brag about how cool your jumps are, and then discourage others (following an accident).

ban the egos. let them argue it out elsewhere... they have grown beyond this site.

 
I'm not so sure that this forum has run it's course and needs to be put out of its misery yet. This forum is and will be what the collective users make of it. Lately it hasn't been made to be a very useful place. For users that can understand how to make it useful and productive, 'read between the lines' and in proper context, it can still work, but for others that only believe in drama-queening/personal attacks/pointless arguements, etc. it will be only a frustrating place, and boring for the others that are waiting for useful conversations to show up. Extrapolating from the current makeup of threads (useless drivel versus productive conversations) perhaps offers insight into which one there is more demand for.

Tom,
I've always thought that you do an exhaustive job as moderator here, and I'm defintiely not saying you should be replaced by me. I'm just saying that it might be good for me to bring another voice in as co-moderator.

I said that you are agenda driven, and that is nothing more than personal opinion, not an attack. I think all of us have some sort of agenda for the sport, and we post/act/jump accordingly. I believe my agenda is different from yours; therefore, I think I could add balance in the sense that variety is the spice of life.

I do believe that when discussions take place on this forum, you side with those who share your opinion. You're famous for saying "What are you basing that opinion on?" Well, if I must, I'll dig through old posts and get get some examples.

But one thing you do for sure is put words in other people's mouths. For instance you just wrote "You may find it amusing that two of the people I've banned the most often are Cornishe and Treejumps..."

I don't find it amusing in any way shape or form that you've banned those guys, but by saing that "I may find it ammsing" you've directed readers down that line of thinking.

You do subtle things like that all the time to lead debates when you should just be moderating.

A moderator is an arbitrator or mediator: a presiding officer, esp. a chairman of a debate.

I think the BASE Zone and those who read it, for information and entertainment, or even just to kill time at work or in between jumps would be better served if I were a co-moderator.

And to answer your question, I don't know if Tree Jumps or Cornishie share your opinions. I was more talking about in a debate by debate case. You certainly take sides whenever someone shares your specific opions during specific debates.

I think that adding a moderator or 2 is heading in the right direction. Personally this board has helped me answer certain questions for which I am very greatfull to Sangiro for making this forum.
I just think that their needs to be a more even paying ground for everyones opinions. Their are many experienced jumpers who choose not to post here. I think if this is to be the most popular and well known forum, which it already is; everyone should feel free to post here and the moderators job should be only to enforce the rules by the book; equality among all jumpers and posters.
thats just my $.02 but then again I don't know S@#$

i voted leave it up
i did so as most of us has agreed Blinc more or less has died,Spamposters are filling up the treads whith offers about cheap evrything.

dz.com is the only nerve out there were ALL the world can go ask some Q´s.Its the only place were people can ask stupied newbie Q´s time after time and still get a gentel help.

I think Blinc is/were the best resuose we had,and we killed it our self.

closing dz.com will mostlikely isolate some people out there..

I think Tom does a great job,i dont always agree whith him,but hey do we need to agree?

You seem to be confused about the role of a moderator on these forums.

A moderator is not expected to (a) not participate in discussions, or (b) not have opinions, or (c) not express opinions.

Even moderators are allowed to hold and express (yes, even on these forums) opinions.

It would be impossible to find someone without opinions, or with no interest in expressing them, who would still be willing to put forth the significant volunteer time necessary to moderate. The only way to do that would be to pay them, and that (aside from being economically unlikely) would open a whole different set of problems, because if you were being paid to moderate the forum, the simplest solution would be to simply ban everyone at the drop of a hat. While that might make your job easier, it wouldn't exactly facilitate discussion.

Actually, I have banned the IP for cornishe before.

I haven't permanently banned either of them. Mostly, that's because the temporary bans have done the job of getting them to post in a more civil fashion. Permanent bans are reserved for people who (a) don't seem to get it repeatedly, or (b) declare openly their intention to break forum rules simply because they exist, or (c) have their username disabled (which is something I can't do, so you'd have to talk to Sangiro about those).

I voted to keep the BASE Zone up. Many jumpers who are new to the sport come here for technical input, knowledge, entertainment, camaraderie, and contacts. I personally have met some great people, learned a lot, and appreciate everyone's patience.

"Real" BASE jumpers who already know everything, have already jumped everything, and already have friends or enemies in every city of the world obviously come here for different reasons....

As for the moderator and agendas, I do not know Tom A. or the politics of BASE well enough to spot any systematic bias.

I'm not confused. I realize that the only reason for you to spend as much time as you do as moderator here, uncompensated, is that it allows you to promote your vision of where the sport should go. You know what I mean by that.

I wouldn't expect you to be copletely unbiased, what fun for you would that be afterall? But it is my opinion that you go overboard a little bit and if I were co-moderator with you, not only would my perspective balance yours out, but I'd try to show how it could be done less agendafied.

The question is, would you still want to do it if you had to share the honor of BASE Zone moderator with a complete jackass like myself?

Why would anyone want to close the BASE Zone? I enjoy it quite a bit.

you two as co-moderators?
wow.

I don't know how multiple moderators work elsewhere on dz.com, but wonder how that would happen here...
would you two be constantly be firing PMs at each other?
would one be un-doing what the other did?

teamwork?

That actually happened on BLiNC several times.

The moderators here sometimes disagree, and we have lively discussions down in that forum that I see second from the bottom (just above the recycle bin) when I look at the main forums page. There's nothing wrong with that. It's just that those arguments are settled in that forum, not in this one.

You pretty much have to have a strong central authority who's willing to step in and tell the moderators how it's going to be. Fortunately, we have that here. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that this is Sangiro's website, not mine. That "no damn democracy" goes for everyone here, no matter what color print their name appears in.

How about no moderators?

At least in the BASE Zone.

Let the brothers go . . .

NickD
BASE 194

There is already an unmoderated forum on another web site, that is locked (only bona fide BASE jumpers who've met someone who can vouch for them are given passwords) so that our family bickering can't get picked up by the press. I think it serves a valuable function.

If I were running a complete web site with BASE forums, I'd want to include such a forum, which has several good uses (allows people to have turf wars, which isn't that big a deal, but also allows us to dissect accidents without fear of getting quoted by the press, and lets people speak more freely without fear the press will pick them up out of context).

But heck, it should be easy enough to set up a locked, unmoderated forum anywhere you want. I remember a rumor that one existed that had been spun off a discussion here a while back, but that was just a rumor...wasn't it?


edit to add: I doubt you're going to see an unmoderated forum on Dropzone.com. This community is much larger than just us, and although sometimes an unmoderated forum could be called for in our (BASE) community, it doesn't fit into the Dropzone.com community model at all.

Having you as co-moderation will definitely help but won't bring back great jumpers like Johnny or Shane to name a few who are forever banned.

The only option is a third and new BASE site because this place feels like a dictatorship and Blinc is a dead anarchy.

this forum is moderated really well and is a great forum
I even got banned for a week once

How about for just a thirty day trial. Just to see what happens, or doesn't . . . ?

We did learn "something" the last two times a public BASE board went down.

Can we pay extra to be free?

NickD
BASE 194

>>to name a few who are forever banned.<<

The only forever banned are . . .
here.

NickD
BASE 194

I notice that you first registered on Sep 25, 2006 at 6:31 AM. That's what, a week ago? If you don't like this place, why did you do that?

Everyone who voted to disband the BASE zone - your IP's should be banned...and you shouldn't care, because you feel this place shouldn't exist in the first place.

And if you do care, then you are a hypocrite, or a liar, or both. And you should be banned again for being full of shit.

edit to add: After thinking about this more, I believe many of the votes to disband this board are non-BASE friendly skydivers...the one's who hate BASE because we "leave our dead behind" and get pissed because some dude wanted to flik a balloon at the WFFC. And they should be banned from coming into this forum using my above guidelines.

who gives a"f‘€¼³" when I registered. If one wants to get rid of it, do so. if you like it, keep it. WTF is the difference. I just look on here for some fun mostly. I think most peeps on here, are just here to say stupid shit, and put down poeple that have a legitimate question. In the world of BASE jumping, Ive found that there are too many politics, I started BASE jumping for fun, I almost stopped skydiving because of the stupid politics. I like to BASE jump for me, I got some awesome friends from my antics, skills, what have you... I dont see many politics in the real world because peolple shy away from it, but here on dorkzone.com where an opionin is without a face, it is very abundant and it sucks. A simple question that is asked, turns into someone not even wanting to jump or take up the sport. If it was up to this place if I wanted to be a BASE jumper or not. Id say f u c k no. The shit on here sucks and so does the moderation(NOT the moderators). I wanna jump, in my mind (just like a playstation) this place is a time sucker. If one needs to know about being a newbie, ask someone in person. I made calls and got good info. on here id be shot down for asking. Get rid of it if you cant handle the bullshit. Keep it if you wanna hear some funny shit talking (magot). But why have a poll against something that is irrelvant to the sport. BASE jumping is about friends, good times, jumping, stories, adventure, danger... who gives a shit if dorkzone is here or not. Jump for what you want, not some stupid reason like a web-site telling you how it is or how you need to be. Jump for yourself and yourself only. If you are dependant on the dorkzone for answers, you shouldnt BASE jump. Have a good night. and oh yea keep it real bitches!

I do jump for me, but it's still nice to be able to hear other people's opinions on things and continue crafting mine from the information I take in. I'm sure your opinions have changed since you started BASE jumping, due to conversations and obviously experiences.

You're right Tom, I should get the fuck out of here but the fun of reading of boneheads trying to figure out a jump by asking an online dork forum is fucking priceless.

But Brother...................

Nick, you like stories, so here's one:


In this forum, I will continue to side with the nice guys. If you come on here and act like an ass I will not only kick you off, I will pro-actively prevent you from returning to "feed your wolf", regardless of who you are and how experienced a BASE jumper you may be.

As for another moderator: I care a lot more about who you are as a person, than who you are as a BASE jumper. (Sorry Jimmy, I'm sure you're a good guy but I'm not taking applications.) Anyone is free to start their own forum, I'm free to run this one the way I believe will ensure it's longevity. I'm more than happy with the way Tom is moderating this board.

PS - which wolf is winning in the BASE community? (not the BASE Zone)

In BASE it does not matter if it is the good one or the bad one, it's the one that has the bigger fun in jumping off stuff.

Really? To me it matters though. So, those who pride themselves in feeding the bad one or who thinks it "doesn't matter" should prepare to always have an uncomfortable time in this forum.

I wasnt around in the 'good ol' days' of Blinc......but its still a fantastic resource for me, I just wish it was 'current'
DZ.com BASE Zone has also been a great resource, but more because it has been kept current.
The issues I have are not with the moderator, but more with the moderation.......there have been times I wanted to ask a general question, opinion but was afarid of the tone or content enough that I deleted the post myself , fearful of a backlash from 'popular' forum contributers, that may affect how future posts I made were responded to.

Whilst the antics of the few people who rant on and on about nothing, or constantly whine, or bullshit on this forum quickly lose my amusement, there is still a wealth of knowledge , experience that I find incredibly useful and wouldnt want to lose.

Whether its Blinc, DZ.Com BASE Forum or a third option...maybe having 'bullshit' and 'no bullshit' ..sub forums might help ,with the latter being moderated, and the former free to allow people with issues on other jumpers vent their feelings in a more 'chat room' like forum.....everyone is happy then.
Accomodating both in the same forum and trying to maintain its integrity....is a losing battle from the off.

One last observation ....DZ.com BASE forum has fast been moving away from being an informed , useful , factual resource .....to having more content based on whining and bitching, whatever the reason it would be great if it swung back the other way.
I would love to see much more technical discussion , tapping into (and contributing to) the vast global experience passing through this forum......wasnt having a 'good time', considered experimentation and sharing knowledge some of the foundations this sport was built on..??

Ok, I know it is your forum and you are the head honcho and everything and I don't ask this to "question" your virtual authority, but just out of curiosity, what do you mean with: should prepare to always have an umcomfortable time in this forum???

Hopefully not the one who self-proclaimed himself/herself a BASE god/goddess and does what he/she does not for the good of the community but to feed his/her ego.

It's my experience that the real-BASE world is much better than the virtual one with just few exceptions...

There's no such thing as 'a stupid question' and for those 'popular forum contributors' backlashes' no one should be afraid. Those people should go out more rather than sitting behind a pc all the time. It's them who should think by themselves 'wtf am I doing lashing somebody', not you...
In the 2 weeks I work offshore I'm on the forum and read quite a bit and sometimes make posts, simply because I have no chance to jump. In the 2 weeks onshore I'm not waisting my time to this forum cause there's a world out there!!!!!!

However, in the 2 weeks I do read it I quite enjoy it, so my vote: Keep it up!

tnx, J.

The more things change...

...the more things stay the same.

-Gardner

have you ever actually made a base jump? honest question

im going to go out on a limb and say no... based mostly on the "i dont care..experienced" bit..

that is so anti-base its obscene.

The BASE Zone is a courtesy to the BASE community from the dz.com owners. BASE jumping is still a niche market. Why shake the boat and endanger a good thing?

By definition, to be a BASE jumper means one has to BASE jump. Consider jumping instead of griping all day online.

Never. Have you ever seen me claim that I have or heard me dole out one word of BASE jumping advice? Honest question.


What exactly does this have to do whether it "matters" to me how people act on here? Women's rights matter to me as well, and I've never been one of those either. How about you, does it matter to you?

My full quote, not just the small piece you latched onto:

Your reply:

Just to make sure I follow the logic: Are you saying I am "anti-base" because I don't allow those who have a lot of BASE experience to break the forum rules?

Bryan, I'm sure you can do a better job at distinguishing who are friends of BASE and who not. Your energy will me much better spent actually winning over some people who are truly "anti-base" rather than burning bridges with those who are so obviously not.

I enjoy hosting the BASE Zone over here and will gladly continue to do so.

It is funny that these things are even issues when shit like Pennsylvania and Bailey are going on.

I guess now that I am unable to jump anymore, perspective has a way of changing. For me, this forum is still a nice way to feel like a small part of a community that I miss dearly and regardless of all of the moaning and groaning, I can still pick through the bullshit and get useful info from the board.

I also think that it is hilarious that anyone could say Tom brings his agenda to the table, imho that couldn't be further from the truth. I wish my primary sport of backcountry snow skiing had an individual with such a level head - go read some of those forums. You wanna talk about politics. It is high fucking time that you people who CAN basejump stfu and do it and realize there are alot of folks in this world that can no longer participate in the sport. Its high fucking time the bickering be put to rest and for you all to realize what an amazing thing you are all a part of. There aren't many groups of folks out there with the bond that you knowingly or unknowingly have.

 
Well spoken/typed. I agree that to support an activity or group one does not necessaarily have to be an active member of that activity or group.

Also, having a sliding scale for determing to what extent users get to break the rules according to their jumping experience is preposterous.

id have to say that almost every registered poster in this forum are "friends of base"


even the assholes.

even the banned.

base at its very core, is about breaking the rules.

leave it up
i read some funny stuff here occasionally
and
some worthwhile stuff too
and
some total crap.

aint america grand?

be safe

kleggo

if you jump for yourself, there can be NO politics. you can simply enjoy the sport for whatever reason.

if being social is part of your BASE experience, politics naturally come into play. others will always attempt to sort out the "alpha" male and establish a pecking order.

this does NOT apply to BASE alone.

jump for yourself. don't brag about jumps, don't be pumping out videos, and you'll be amazed how the politics stops affecting you!

the ones who seem to complain loudest about politics seem concerned THEY are not being heard...

I don't think that's true.

Having fun is very important--in BASE and in life. But there are more important things. If your idea of fun is hurting other people, you can't excuse that conduct by saying "but I was having fun doing it."

The fact that doing something is fun does not excuse conduct that impacts others negatively--no matter how much fun it may be.


A long time ago Adam Filipino said something that's stuck with me. He said "we play a high stakes game called BASE jumping--we are also involved in being human beings."

Do not confuse one for the other, and do not make the mistake of thinking that the first one is more important than the second.

Nick, you've really stirred up a hornet's nest with this one!

for the record, i voted it's a non-issue... i find myself addicted to reading the "gossip" here, just as (for an example) is posted in this very thread.

if i am without internet access however, i don't freak out about what important information i'm missing. as i'm unwinding, or often killing time at "work", i simply enjoy perusing what is often very entertaining nonsense. if everything needed to be serious and constructive, they wouldn't make comedies.

live and let live. i've always said that the hardest thing in life is to simply be a good person. but this is the internet, and it is a mask for identity, both good and bad.

WTF was i just talking about.... too many Feldschlossens...

p.s. Lauterbrunnen sucks... i HAD to make another jump in the rain today.

~E

If I understand correctly, Nick, your original goal with this post was to discuss the short and long term effects of "The BASE Zone" on the sport of BASE jumping. I believe you were trying to poll whether keeping the forum does more good than harm versus more harm than good to the sport.

A few of the posts have addressed this question, largely siding in favor of keeping it, while the majority of others have introduced an element of noise (myself included) regarding -how- the forum is run versus whether or not its existence has an inherent positive or negative effect on the sport.

There have been comments made along the lines of "Those who don't like here, don't have to come here" which is true of any uncommanded society. However, I don't think the goal was to discuss whether or not people like or don't like "The BASE Zone" (or the way it is run) but rather to investigate the meta-aspects of its existence.

This discussion would involve analyzing what the goals of the forum are, how well it accomplishes those goals, and what the overall cost/benefit ratio is for the sport.

I'd hypothesize that the answers will be normally distributed and dependent upon individuals': time in the sport, number of different objects jumped, number of friends lost, current level of activity in the sport, and the number of other local jumpers in their 'crew'.

The only data points I have are myself and those I've talked to about the topic. I've seen some trends, and am curious if they's accurate across the board. The fact that ~23% have said "Take it down" and another ~26% have said it's "Not an issue" (at the time of this writing) is intriguing. Only a little more than half of the total strongly agree in keeping it up, which is interesting. Especially given that these numbers do not account for those who do not track this forum and have expressed a stronger opinion by non-participation.

I respect the fact that at the end of the day it's not a democracy, it's Sangiro's house and he can do whatever he wants with it, although I am curious what people's reasoning behind their vote was specificallly in terms of: Does the BASE Zone help the sport more than it harms it, or harm the sport more than it helps it?

-=Raistlin

 

Are you folks still pretending it matters?

Who's definition of "help the sport" are you going with?