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G3-suit. VKB
Hi.
Kings and queens...

After a long cold winter in karsk land. We have develop an real tracking tool. G3 is now ready for some Norwegian big cliffs.

“We are so lucky, no ones out there know the end of development”

Some picture of the G3 suit. And daily VKB work.
Yes, it has been flown...

Enjoy
G3.tunell1.JPG
G3.tunell2.JPG
Rok1.jpg
Rok2.jpg
Rok3.jpg
Garage1.jpg
Helmet1.jpg
S-fly1.jpg
Lab.jpg
Modell1.jpg
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Re: [Lokky_luke] G3-suit. VKB
Wow!

What is the range of motion on that suit (arms and legs)? Can you still run and grab toggles/risers, like a tracking suit (as opposed to a wingsuit)?
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Re: [Lokky_luke] G3-suit. VKB
Curious as to the glide ratio you are achieving with your suits and rigs ?

Keep up the good work.
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Re: [Lokky_luke] G3-suit. VKB
Exciting stuff dude! Can you post bigger pictures? It's difficult to see much in those ones.

Gus
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Re: [Lokky_luke] G3-suit. VKB
In reply to:
Hi.
Kings and queens...

After a long cold winter in karsk land. We have develop an real tracking tool. G3 is now ready for some Norwegian big cliffs.

“We are so lucky, no ones out there know the end of development”

Some picture of the G3 suit. And daily VKB work.
Yes, it has been flown...

Enjoy

Amazing...

The airflow above and below the body is so clean...

How did you get access to a wind tunnel this size?
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Re: [Lokky_luke] G3-suit. VKB
Fantastic... I'd love to see bigger pictures. If you need a host, PM me.
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Re: [Lokky_luke] G3-suit. VKB
Yea man its a cool lookin suit , i got a peek at the heli boogie that container looks even longer now . ? are there any folds in the pack job looks long enough to take the whole canopy un folded?. enjoy dudes im of to KL thats as good as it gets down here cheers ..{ skoll } Hecky Cool
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Re: [hecy68] G3-suit. VKB
Definitely cool stuff. How much of an improvement in lift or rather glide ratio are getting over the standard base rig with a typical wing suit?
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Re: [Lokky_luke] G3-suit. VKB
Looks good...where's the video? and what 460 said....info please.

Kris.
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Re: [Lokky_luke] G3-suit. VKB
Here are the larger pictures.
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Re: [MB38] G3-suit. VKB
Its hard to see in the pictures, but is the suit/rig rigid around the hip area?
In other words, can you still move/twist your upper body, or are is it completely stiff from waist to shoulders?

Designwise, especialy if you would also add the helmet, it reminds me a bit of the sketches that artist posted in the wingsuit forum some time ago...the rig-wing/track suit combo looks amazing..cant wait to see some videos..
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Re: [Lokky_luke] G3-suit. VKB
Hi,
Thanks sharing with us your ideas and dreams !
YOU ARE THE KINGS!
Blue skies
Chris
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Re: [mccordia] G3-suit. VKB
In reply to:
Its hard to see in the pictures, but is the suit/rig rigid around the hip area?
In other words, can you still move/twist your upper body, or are is it completely stiff from waist to shoulders?

If you can twist your upperbody, how much of an impact does that make on the packjob since it looks like the tray goes from shoulders to the back of your knees / how careful do you need to be after its all buttoned up to not cause a serious malf / canopy damage?
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Re: [Lokky_luke] G3-suit. VKB
Hei !
What kind of measures were you taking in the windtunnel? Have you been testing the same measures on the 3 kinds of wingsuits: S-Fly, Birdman, yours? I wish I could do the same with my new prototype, the "Giboline 2". I'm also asking myself why you take the measures with that "flat angle": you never fly head down with a wingsuit...

Hilsen fra Boris det "Gibolin" (fra Sveits)! Tongue
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Re: [Gibolin] G3-suit. VKB
Just a guess..but isn't that where the relative wind is coming from?

Kris.
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Re: [Lokky_luke] G3-suit. VKB
Lovely pictures! A few nerdy questions. Can you post some of the aeronautical data?

How did you select angles of attack for the wind tunnel tests?

What are your thoughts on the turbulent layer beneath the model? How does it respond to AOA?

Reynolds number? Center of gravity? Coefficient of lift or C sub d on any of the models / victims?

Have you looked into winglets or leading edge slats? Laugh
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Re: [KrisFlyZ] G3-suit. VKB
In reply to:
Just a guess..but isn't that where the relative wind is coming from?
that would be in a "atmonauti" "sliding on the angle" angle. In case of a flatter flight angle, you would have wind from below... My guess...
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Re: [piisfish] G3-suit. VKB
There is always(other than in perfect headdown) wind hitting the bottom surface of the flyer, but that is not possible to tune the wind hitting the bottom of the wings in a wind tunnel(IMO)...especially because the pilot makes a big difference in the wing area.

If we ignore the 3rd dimension(for max forward speed or glide the pilot needs to be in the same plane from wingtip to wingtip across the wingspan). The movement can be split into vertical and horizontal(result being the glidepath)...the horizontal is what is being looked at in these studies.

Kris.
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Re: [MB38] G3-suit. VKB
Two new pictures.
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Re: [MB38] G3-suit. VKB
ShockedShockedShocked That is just plain beautiful. So futuristic, so natural... CLAP CLAP CLAP Standing ovation CLAP CLAP CLAP
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Re: [MB38] G3-suit. VKB
Here's a repeat of a question I put in my email to Øyvind:

One question: are the arm-wings attached in any particular way? The red fabric around the bicep appears to attach to the body of the jumper with velcro or something similar there... was it not attached on this jump [but it was in the wind tunnel?] or does it somehow "connect" once in the proper body position?

To clarify, I'm referring to the yellow/gold "velcro" under the armpit.

And, of course, what kind of performance are we talking about here? What did you clear on the ground by pull time?
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Re: [piisfish] G3-suit. VKB
Wow...that looks amazing..smooth lines!

Any video for usSmile

Was the arm detached on purpoise on this jump?
http://web.mac.com/...,Romsdalen%20149.jpg
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Re: [mccordia] G3-suit. VKB
Oh...It is even more beautiful. I can promise you those armwings get attached after his arms get into tracking position. I don't dare tell why, in case Mr Lucky L. view it as an industrial secretWink

PS: It is 3k to the other side of that valley where he jump. When he reached the other side he had to turn down valley to keep on flying that futuristic thing!

I am proud to be a friend of such freakin scientist!!!
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Re: [FatSnake] G3-suit. VKB
I was just about to give the idea away, But I just say like Espen. It is really cool. and special. And it works. Even if its nt the most profitable way to build a wingsuit/tracksuit. But its really a lot of fun seing the progress. Its pure sience!

/martin
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Re: [FatSnake] G3-suit. VKB
3KM + from 1600M(or 1800M) exit point? Awesome!!

Kris.
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Re: [FatSnake] G3-suit. VKB
what is the red cord(?) that goes around the top (back) part of the suit for? cutaway? design?
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Re: [Colm] G3-suit. VKB
Hi colm!
Your questions bring me some more questions: what is the Reynolds number and in what is it interesting for wingsuit building? How can you determine the coefficient of lift. I tried to measure the angle of attack of my 1st prototype by filming a good friend of mine flying in front of me while both freefalling. Then I've measured the angle on my TV screen!...I also tried to measure it with a dummy attached to the center of gravity, so the forces would compensate themselves after a while and kinda reach "terminal velocity" and be stable. BUT the angle changed with the speed (and my old car will never reach terminal velocity!), so my test was not accurate. furthermore, gravity pulling was a force disturbing the test at 90° (hope you understand my poor English. I speak normally Swiss-French...). I wish I could use a GPS with altitude recorded during the freefall to have the trajectory. Combined with my angle from the video, I should have the correct angle of attack. Does it seem correct to you?
In my opinion, windtunnel tests should be performed with dummies having the correct angle of attack, otherwise you only have a part of the answer after the tests...

Keep being creative! Boris "the Gibolin"
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Re: [FatSnake] G3-suit. VKB
In reply to:
PS: It is 3k to the other side of that valley where he jump. When he reached the other side he had to turn down valley to keep on flying that futuristic thing!

Is this as observed from the exit point, the landing area or a GPS log after the jump? Can someone post some glide numbers please?

Kris.
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Re: [Gibolin] G3-suit. VKB
In reply to:
Your questions bring me some more questions: what is the Reynolds number and in what is it interesting for wingsuit building? How can you determine the coefficient of lift. I tried to measure the angle of attack -snip-

disclaimer: I'm a pilot not an engineer

Reynold's number, in a sense, has to do with the drag of the fluid (air) over the surface of the object (the jumper). It is useful in scaled experiments such as small wind-tunnel models. Finding the critical reynolds number (somebody correct me if I'm wrong) on the model will help predict important airflow characteristics over a full-size version. So you can subject a small model to wind tunnel tests that you couldn't do on a real person, and get useful information.

Angle of attack is the angle between the chord of an airfoil (i.e. a straight line from a tracker's head to his toes) and the wind vector. If you wanted to estimate your AOA while you jumped 1) install an AOA vane on your body somewhere, or 2):
- use video to determine X while you track, where X is the angle between the horizontal plane and the chord of your body
- Determine your glideslope, Y, equal to the angle of your descent path as you track--get this from GPS data (90°=straight down, 0 = going perfectly horizontal)
- Subtract X from Y to estimate AOA (did I get that right?)

Note in the model picture, the AOA is approximately zero or slightly above. As others have noted, this is only possible in a very limited set of circumstances. It's not very useful, because unlike simple vector math, you can't just get a stream snapshot at 90° and also at 0° and expect any useful interpolated data.... the important stuff has to be determined experimentally. It would be interesting to see it at about 5-10 degrees higher AOA, and slightly less camber, I think.

Another thing you'll notice in the model picture is the distinct difference between the laminar flow over the top of the model and the highly turbulent separation underneath. This is basically what an inverted stall looks like... with excessive drag and poor controllability. If you adjusted the camber (i.e. the tracker lifted his forehead a little) I'd expect that to change. But of course, the AOA is probably unrealistic anyway so it is fairly moot.

Coefficient of lift... using C sub L at a given angle of attack, you can predict lift force based on certain factors. If you know the critical angle of attack and calculate C sub L for that configuration, you can find the max theoretical lift. Combine it with coefficient of drag, do some college math, and you can figure out a host of things such as L/D(max), best glide speed, best rate of descent, etc. Many things that might be useful to a nerdy tracker!

I'm sure I've botched the theory terribly...Pirate maybe someone like 460 has some insightful comments.

I just want to echo how fascinating this is... I have never heard of anyone looking at tracking in a windtunnel before. That body-wing that flew whats-his-face over the english channel probably went through the wringer too. It's a start.
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Re: [Lokky_luke] G3-suit. VKB
What is the required hight for this suit?
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Re: [Rainer] G3-suit. VKB
In reply to:
What is the required hight for this suit?

Looks like 6 feet or so. Sorry, couldn't resist.

TongueMichael
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Re:G3-suit. VKB
There are new updates online

Øyvind sent me a document discussing the suit's design, wind tunnel tests and jumping. He also sent an Excel document with GPS plots and wind tunnel data.

If you don't see the links right away, reload.

Enjoy.

[P.S. - at Øyvind's request, I cleaned up spelling and some (not all)grammar in the document]
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Re: [MB38] Re:G3-suit. VKB
Stats are cool...video would be betterCool
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Re: [mccordia] Re:G3-suit. VKB
Yeah, it would be nice to watch the video.

Kudos to the VKB guys for posting GPS data. Even though it shows what someone posted here as 3km to be false.

It also looks like if flown a bit slower(less steep?) there is more glide to come from the suit. Travelling 150 mph plus must be pretty nice too.

Kris.
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Re: [KrisFlyZ] Re:G3-suit. VKB
Other question for the you VKB folks...

A lot of people have been talking about landing a wingsuit and how groundeffect might come into play..

Completely ignoring the landing of a wingsuit (dont want to start another discussion on that...do a search if anyone cares)

But flying as close to the ground/cliffs as you guys do..

When you are flying over edges etc. Do you get any extra noticable lift or turbulence coming from the rocks? Or is a track/wingsuit simply to small to really produce any noticable effect?

Just wondering....?
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Re: [mccordia] Re:G3-suit. VKB
Try doing a search on ground effect lift. You might figure out that you would have to be darn close to the ground to realize any benefit from ground effect. ground effect is a function of airfoil span.
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Re: [mccordia] Re:G3-suit. VKB
i recall hearing somewhere that groundeffect only happens when you are < half the wignspan above the ground.
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Re: [LukeH] Re:G3-suit. VKB
half of the wingspan is correct. So to notice this effect you would need to be within 3 feet or less.CrazyPirate
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Re: [LukeH] Re:G3-suit. VKB
half the wingspan is where some noticeable effects (approximately 10 percent reduction in induced drag) start occurring at 10 percent of the wingspan (what is that? 7 inches) you would get a 50 percent reduction in induced drag. and remeber that induced drag is a small percentage of the lift. Basically, ground effect is not going to provide much help in landing a wingsuit.
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Re: [pattersd] Re:G3-suit. VKB
In reply to:
Basically, ground effect is not going to provide much help in landing a wingsuit.

I wasnt really interested in the landing idea...but just curious about any effects the close proximity to the walls might have on ones flying..
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Re: [mccordia] Re:G3-suit. VKB
About the effects of close proximity:

Have't felt any difference while flying close. Regarding turbulence: From time to time windy conditions occur. I tend to fly a little less close in those situations.

And while I am writing, not that it is an answer to any the earlier posts. There are in my opinion two easy and basic rules for for close flying:


1. Fly down to objects, not above objects
2. Fly towards objects, not away from objects

If rules are followed a human mistake will take you further away from danger. On video it is hard to see, but in reality it normally means you dive while flying.
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Re: [Lokky_luke] G3-suit. VKB
A new polar graph, an updated tunnel/jump document and two new pictures are up
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Re: [MB38] G3-suit. VKB
I'd love to see Robi go up there (or Yuri, or Loic) and somebody shoot some relative footage with a top end wingsuit pilot to compare forward speed and fall rate (and heck, hook the wingsuit up to the VKB instrumentation too).
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Re: [TomAiello] G3-suit. VKB
First of all, why?

Second, they`re not able to follow him anyway..Wink
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Re: [TomAiello] G3-suit. VKB
This setup is not a wingsuit nor is it trying to be one.

Forward speed will obviously be higher because of the lower drag. (Core to the design) However fall rate will be higher, because of the lower surface area (even with good lift creating ability).

Glide ratio I would expect to be lower than that of a good WS Pilot in one of the high end suits.

Different sites and different styles of flying require different tools. Sugar glider (I mean pre GS1) V2 and the G3 are three very different animals designed for different things. But I'm sure all are lots of fun.
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Re: [Colm] G3-suit. VKB
Great explanations Colm, thanks a lot. I think I'd better try to make some money to buy myself a day with engineers in a pro windtunnel to discuss and measure all this. Your answer gave me the will to do it ! For now, I'll test my prototype in the air for more than the two jumps I've already done and try to collect some datas with the help of a good friend whose project is also a bit crazy. Have a look at his website. His name is Yves Rossy. We just live next door! www.jet-man.com Enjoy!
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Re: [FatSnake] Re:G3-suit. VKB
I can totally agree to Espen/Fatsnakes thoughts about the 2 rules of close flying.

Also I have never felt any groundeffect, and its true you need to be very close/ far beond safe close to the object to get the effect and the surfice have to be smooth.

Though in very hot and thermic weathers I have felt lift/turbulence. This kind of lift isnt very comfortable so I tend to keep distance.

I have still my V1 and have still a problem to fly down to things. Im headding fr a smaller and faster suit that can fly very steep and exact.

Another thing to think about. If youre trying to fly close to an object. make sure you are flying so steep that you can easely lift far above the place if you feel that you are in a bad spot. As soon as you breake, stall or flattern out your suit you are lost.

Keep it steap, keep it exact and follow the 2 rules from Fat snake.

/martin - getting a smaller suit for next year.
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Re: [Lokky_luke] G3-suit. VKB
News video.

I'll be pulling my website soon, VKB is putting up their own.
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Re: [MB38] G3-suit. VKB
The NRK video is also on SDM.com http://www.skydivingmovies.com/...ion=file&id=5122
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Re: [saf40] G3-suit. VKB
Great work Guys.
The show it self is really good. Its a positive show, its about sience and developing (for real this time, no fucking 6-gainer developing such as in Twin falls) This is the real thing.

The NRK Crew seems interested and you got to show it all.

Lets do some more stuff next weekend guys, Im coming to you to play again. hehe.

Anyway , Im glad to hear what they are saying. Its developing just to get a sience show in TV about BASE.

/martin - who understand what they are saying ;)
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Re: [MartinRosen] G3-suit. VKB
In reply to:
who understand what they are saying ;)
I understood Fallskjerm Laugh