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Twin Falls Opinions: The Beginning of the End?
Press Clip from the Magic Valley Times-News (the local paper here in Twin Falls). This is an editorial by the newspaper's editorial board, published on July 16th, 2006.

A few things to keep in mind:

1) This newspaper has always been one of the biggest supporters of BASE jumping here in Twin Falls. This is a pretty big shift in their opinion.
2) The newspaper carries a fair bit of weight with public opinion in the town.
3) We've had a pretty bad run this summer. Accidents over Memorial Day, closure of the bridge shortly thereafter, and continuing minor issues are all contributing to a worsening of public opinion. High visibility events that keep BASE jumping on the public radar--even when they go perfectly to plan--aren't necessarily positive, either.

Remember that this is what was printed in the paper, (obviously) not my own views. Whatever rebuttals to the editorial you post here aren't going to have much effect on public opinion in Twin Falls. Writing a letter to the editor of the paper might have some impact, but be very certain to present your case articulately and intelligently if that's something you wish to do, or you're in danger of just adding fuel to the fire.

Almost no one in the town really cares about average day-to-day jumping. It's the big events (into which category public opinion lumps large, but disorganized gatherings like Memorial Day or Labor Day) that have people concerned. The major concern for most is simply traffic flow over the bridge (which is the main avenue into or out of town). If we could promise zero impact on the traffic flow, I think we'd be ok, but I also think there is no way we could guarantee that.


My personal opinion is that it's time for us to collectively cool it here. High profile activities, even positive ones (like the one discussed in the editorial) are increasingly likely to damage our access to the bridge. Perhaps we ought to consider toning things down in terms of our community visibility for the rest of this season?

We definitely need to pro-actively examine (and work to reduce) our impact on the rest of the community, before they do it for us, and decide we're no longer welcome here.


In reply to:
Costs Should Fall on BASE Jumpers

Our View: The time is coming to regulate BASE jumping in Twin Falls.

A tourist couple from Switzerland was standing in the parking lot of the Buzz Langdon Visitors Center on a recent weekend, with the hubbub of yet another BASE-jumping extravaganza going all around them.

"Where," they wondered "can we buy tickets?"

There were no tickets, of course: The biggest show in Twin Falls was free to any spectator who could find a vantage point.

Last weekend, emergency medical crews and law enforcement officers--all working on the public's dime--worked to make another BASE jumping event safe. And a lane of the Perrine Bridge was blocked to accomodate a large crane being used in an attempt on a BASE-jumping record, while northbound traffic was backed up for blocks along Blue Lakes Boulevard North.

Maybe it's time that the citizens of Twin Falls and Jerome Counties stopped subsidizing this year-round three-ring circus.

The benefits to the local economy of BASE jumpers and spectators attracted by the Perrine Bridge are well-documented, and most residents are tolerant of the attendant crowds and noise and traffic congestion--to a point.

But the point at which inconvenience becomes a burden is approaching fast, and it's time to start a serious local discussion about managing it.

For starters, major BASE-jumping events that attract hundreds of people and require extra public services should not be treated the same as the activities of individual BASE jumpers. It's not unreasonable, in our view, to expect a large-scale spectacular to post a bond or pay a surcharge to cover the costs of police and emergency services overtime.

Then there are the related issues of parking and space for spectators and BASE jumpers--both are limited on and around the Perrine Bridge. The city of Twin Falls and Twin Falls and Jerome counties would be well within their rights to require organizers to provide alternative, off-site parking and to limit the number of spectators who can be safely accomodated.

And finally, there's the traffic problem. For all it's cachet in the BASE-jumping community, the Perrine Bridge is first and foremost an essential transportation link. It carries up to 37,0000 vehicles a day, and even brief interruptions in traffic can cause major problems. So can accidents and congestion that result from drivers rubber-necking BASE jumpers.

The point is, BASE jumping is not an essential activity, but transportation, emergency medical services and law enforcement are. At the very least, the burden of bearing additional costs should fall on the BASE jumpers.

The simplest and fairest solution, for starters at least, might be to charge BASE jumpers a modest use fee--say, $10 per person per day. That would require agreement by the two counties, the city of Twin Falls, and the Idaho Transportation Department, but such a fee would not be especially expensive to collect--and could be used directly to defray the additional costs to the taxpayers of BASE jumping.

Beyond that, further regulation of BASE jumping from the Perrine Bridge--or at least of the additional costs inherent in the effects of the sport on the Blue Lakes corridor--are a virtual certainty.

The last thing Twin Falls wants to do is discourage BASE jumping. But as taxpayers, it's not our responsibility to underwrite it, either.

The members of the editorial board and writers of editorials are Brad Hurd, Chris Steinbach, Steve Crump, Traci Bliss, Bill Blitzenburg and David Cooper.
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Re: [TomAiello] Twin Falls Opinions: The Beginning of the End?
 
It appears the events are drawing enough crowds that somebody wants their cut of the pie, a kickback at least.
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Re: [tr027] Twin Falls Opinions: The Beginning of the End?
In reply to:
It appears the events are drawing enough crowds that somebody wants their cut of the pie, a kickback at least.

I actually don't think that's it. We had major traffic congestion on the last event. If we could eliminate the traffic problems, I don't think we'd see anyone asking for anything more.
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Re: [TomAiello] Twin Falls Opinions: The Beginning of the End?
In reply to:
Maybe it's time that the citizens of Twin Falls and Jerome Counties stopped subsidizing this year-round three-ring circus.
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Re: [HydroGuy] Twin Falls Opinions: The Beginning of the End?
In reply to:
In reply to:
Maybe it's time that the citizens of Twin Falls and Jerome Counties stopped subsidizing this year-round three-ring circus.

HydroGuy hit it spot on. We should all use rigs with L-bars from now on... Tongue

Seriously though, I'm struggling to find problems with the article. I think it's well written and doesn't fall for the cliche BASE traps. The biggest problem is that measuring the true cost that BASE jumping impinges onto Twin Falls is impossible. That means that any suggested charge (like the 10 dollars a day) will involve heavy debate, not in the least about where that money should go.

The dropzonificaton of BASE, unavoidable?

Remember folks, there's always something in your backyard.
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Re: [TomAiello] Twin Falls Opinions: The Beginning of the End?
what is the industry in twin falls? agriculture? tourism?

are we not tourists?

In reply to:
We had major traffic congestion on the last event. If we could eliminate the traffic problems, I don't think we'd see anyone asking for anything more.

i'm curious, did the event require a permit?


love this place and don't want to lose it. willing to do what ever it takes to keep it accessible.
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Re: [littlestranger] Twin Falls Opinions: The Beginning of the End?
I talked to Dan Schilling about this the week before the event and it did require permits. If I remember right he had to get a permit from Twin Falls county, and from the department of transportation (who ever owns the bridge, I think it was the DOT).
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Re: [JaapSuter] Twin Falls Opinions: The Beginning of the End?
It appears that some people in Twin Falls have forgotten about all the tax dollars that jumpers bring to the area. I would like to know what "costs" are incurred due to BASE jumping (other than the world record jump)? Were any costs for the world record jump paid for by jumpers?

The article isn't a surprise to me. As previously mentioned, everyone wants a piece of the pie. When I complained about the NPS charging us $2500 to rent the Bridge Day LZ, some locals wrote to the newspaper and said we should pay for the privilege to jump. Unfortunately, greedy people are slowly removing "free" from our everyday vocabulary...
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Re: [TomAiello] Twin Falls Opinions: The Beginning of the End?
When I drive up to Twin Falls I buy gas for my car. my gas is taxed.
when I stay at the hotel, I bring money to the community.I pay taxes.and the money I spend is taxed.
When I eat 2-3 meals a day at the local restaurants.....
When I drink at the bars......
so do all the spectators that are "causing traffic".
rediculous.

~J
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Post deleted by lifewithoutanet
 
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Re: [TomAiello] Twin Falls Opinions: The Beginning of the End?
tom
see if you can keep the charge to just $4.20/day...
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Re: [littlestranger] Twin Falls Opinions: The Beginning of the End?
In reply to:
what is the industry in twin falls? agriculture? tourism?

Agriculture, almost exclusively. Something like 85% of the local economy is agriculture.
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Re: [d_goldsmith] Twin Falls Opinions: The Beginning of the End?
In reply to:
I talked to Dan Schilling about this the week before the event and it did require permits. If I remember right he had to get a permit from Twin Falls county, and from the department of transportation (who ever owns the bridge, I think it was the DOT).

Dan did pretty much everything right. He got perrmission from all the right people, checked in with all the right people, got buy-in from all the right people. And still, we're seeing this...
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Re: [TomAiello] Twin Falls Opinions: The Beginning of the End?
It’s like the little train/band/team/company, etc that could. It starts out as something that feels very personal , a feeling of owning it all to yourselves...time marches on & it has grown to a much bigger pie & so many hands are grabbing for a piece, an ever increasing tax bill, or someone being inconvenienced for a moment in time trying to get where they are going & a need to blame someone so why not blame the base jumping circus. Some would argue pay them what they want & keep the party rolling while others say are we actually volunteering to pay more taxes. What’s next, toll booths? I would think @ the next annual budget meeting maybe a audit on what is allocated to the emergency services & a vote on increasing spending & reviewing what being brought in with all these extra people around. I’m sure it pays for itself already with plenty of extra cream for the pie.
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Re: [lifewithoutanet] Twin Falls Opinions: The Beginning of the End?
"They" is one person. Others may agree with because they read t in the papers.
Of all the people I have talked to in Twin that is the first time I have heard that opinion expressed. People unfortunately seem to believe what they read. ...
But it's not too late!
No press is my first choice but good, sensible, positive, resonable press is my second.
i'll raise the Jolly Rodger any time I feel It's the best bet but I'm entirely willing to swallow my pride if I have to, and say..." thanks, for letting us do what our Fore Fathers fought for... the freedom to enjoy the land we love in any way we see fit, solong as it doesn't infringe on our brother and sisters' freedom and security"
.
~J
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Re: [FIREFLYR] Twin Falls Opinions: The Beginning of the End?
In reply to:
"They" is one person.

In this case it's at least the 6 people who signed their name to the editorial by line.
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Re: [TomAiello] Twin Falls Opinions: The Beginning of the End?
It seems like the beef of the writers of the editorial is primarily the traffic congestion of Blue Lakes Blvd and the bridge. I have a comment and a question.

1) Everytime I'm in Twin Falls, whether it's a big BASE event or an off weekend where there's only two or three jumpers using the bridge, Blue Lakes Blvd has congestion and gets backed up. I can imagine a crane parked on the bridge would make it worse (even though that guy got permits and presumably had to pay for them as well as the "overtime" earned by the traffic workers during the event), but I can't imagine 2 or 3 jumpers causing the congestion. Twin Falls has a rush hour like every other city and on weekends it seems to last all day. Then again, I've only been there four or five times, maybe I was just lucky.

2) If jumpers paid $10 per day per jumper to use the bridge; how would that help the traffic congestion problem?
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In response to the editors bullshit...
I don't think the article is well written.

On one hand, the authors talk of the well documented economic benefits of BASE to the Twin Falls community.

On the other hand, they want to pass a tax on BASE because of the economic burden it places on the Twin Falls community.

These two statements are very conflicting.

And they talk of the noise generated from BASE. I don't see what noise BASE generates that can be heard over the semi trucks full of stinking cows driving over that bridge all day.

I also saw no mention in the article that Dan's jumps were to benefit the Fallen Warriors Foundation. Maybe someone should write them a rebuttal, and in the process paint the editors to be unpatriotic and lacking support for our fallen soldiers families who were the direct benefits of the crane gig.

And to say they don't want to discourage BASE but they want to tax it is BS as well. Taxes discourage business and investment, and would discourage BASE in the TWF community as well.

Stupid editors...
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Re: [Ten48] Twin Falls Opinions: The Beginning of the End?
Slow News Day . . .

There are many angles to this one . . .

There's the whole question of how much we allow ourselves to be maneuvered, maligned and plundered by outsiders especially when BASE traditionally needs no one’s permission or support. I really wish more people would remember that last bit.

Maybe we should show the guts we failed to show at Bridge Day after that went from an absolute freedom fest to what now feels like a Big Brother-lock down. Freedom is only gained by sacrifice – we just need just one generation of BASE jumper with the moxie to say, “Shove the bridge up your ass.”

Besides – TF is already getting their slice of the pie. Sitting in the TF airport I see posters all over the place touting the recreational possibilities in Idaho. Along with photos of skiing, white water rafting, and the rest – there we are jumping! BASE is already being used to promote Idaho. And “being used” is the operative word here.

On the other hand we might be getting all knotted up for nothing. Consider the sorry plight of the small town editorial writer who has a blank page staring him in the face every morning. He has to write about something. So it was only a matter of time before he got around to us. I’ll go further and say the editorial writer is also using us. He’s using us to earn his paycheck.

Socially speaking BASE is a small drain on the public pocket book. Take the money spent on every BASE rescue and every overtime city worker supporting a BASE event (in all of history) and it’s nothing compared to what’s spent keeping welfare mothers in diapers and milk for a single year. And a forward looking society should have an obligation to promote free thinking because it’s what makes humankind interesting and is how a society progresses.

If we get to a point, especially in a state like Idaho, where we don’t stand up, we might as well fold the tents and go home . . . Let them implement their fees – and that will just be the beginning. Next year they will have some guy from city hall checking the size of your pilot chute.

So once again we stand at another crossroad with a choice. We can either meekly cave in or a few of us will have to pay the fines and some of us will have to go to jail.

I wonder which one it will be . . . ?

NickD Smile
BASE 194
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Re: [TomAiello] Twin Falls Opinions: The Beginning of the End?
I remember when I first moved here about three years ago and Don "the boat guy" said , during the course of our discussion, that there were some notable jumpers (about 7 years ago) who wanted to have competitions at the bridge and charge money for the event. Don's stance on the whole thing was absolutely not because once you start adding money to the mix then the state people start wondering why money is being made off their bridge and that invites people asking a lot of questions. (Remember, this bridge is not legal or illegal, it's tolerated.) Over the years I have started to see this phenomenon develop. IDOT has always asked that BASE Jumpers not distract traffic flow or be under the bridge or tie anything off to the bridge. IDOT actually follows this same rule for themselves. Whenever they come to work on the bridge they bring a huge boom that wraps all the way under the bridge so they can do the repairs. They never step foot on the bridge. This is also why we have a general rule about not standing on the rail, not because it's "one of the 7 deadly sins", but rather because the jumper is much more visible to on coming traffic. If someone was to get seriously hurt or killed in a traffic accident on that bridge and someone from that car uttered the words " We saw the guy on the railing and ..." Obviously, this scenario wouldn't live up to IDOT's primary objective of having uninterrepted traffic flow across the bridge. Furthermore, you now have on your consience an accident in which you have helped cause. As BASE Jumpers we have to continually show to everyone else (city,idot,state,etc.) that we take our own precautions in trying to do this safely for ourselves and for the community at large. Because if we cannot regulate ourselves someone else will do it for us! This is just how things work in the real world. Unfortnately, there's plenty of people who do not understand this basic premise. The event of a couple weeks ago I thought was done very well and they crossed all t's and dotted all I's in getting this event organized. Unfortunately, even though they're intentions were good the old adage " the road to hell was paved with good intentions" applies to this situation. That's why myself and some other jumpers keep low profiles when jumping the bridge. It's unfortunate but when you make yourself (BASE Jumping) much more visible to the public ( by festivals and other big events) there's always someone who wants a slice of the pie or is going to have a beef with what you're doing. However, it should be noted that the majority of Twin Falls and IDOT are supportive of our endeavors from this bridge. But keep in mind it's our job as BASE Jumpers to self regulate ourselves before someone else does it for us. And if the time comes when JOE BAGADOUGHNUTS starts regulating we'll have wished we would've done things differently.

Jamie Boutwell

PS: It should be noted that local jumpers have raised over $20,000 for local organizations in this cummunity. However, there's no mention of that in the article!
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Re: [TomAiello] Twin Falls Opinions: The Beginning of the End?
In reply to:
from the editorial:
In reply to:
For starters, major BASE-jumping events that attract hundreds of people and require extra public services should not be treated the same as the activities of individual BASE jumpers. It's not unreasonable, in our view, to expect a large-scale spectacular to post a bond or pay a surcharge to cover the costs of police and emergency services overtime.
...

The last thing Twin Falls wants to do is discourage BASE jumping. But as taxpayers, it's not our responsibility to underwrite it, either.

it sounds to me:
1) we must remember we are guests
2) we don't wish to be seen abusing their hospitality by a regular series of high profile events. Miles, Dan, Memorial Day, Labor Day, etc. it's as if they have their quiet community, and LIKE it that way. if we stay quiet, fine. it's simply a good neighbor thing. if we agitate them with road congestion, they will agitate us...
3) if we jumped it like virtually every other object, the issue would vanish

their attitude doesn't seem very different from the various posts here following Memorial Day. many asked others to stay within their abilities and show the object more respect.

the newspaper seems to be asking us as a whole to do the same thing...

edited to add:
weren't the residents around the Swiss valley aggravated earlier this year as well?

take only pictures, leave only footprints...
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Re: [TomAiello] Twin Falls Opinions: The Beginning of the End?
In reply to:
My personal opinion is that it's time for us to collectively cool it here. High profile activities, even positive ones (like the one discussed in the editorial) are increasingly likely to damage our access to the bridge. Perhaps we ought to consider toning things down in terms of our community visibility for the rest of this season?
I heartily concur. After a big event, the first question I hear (if I attended) or ask (if I did not) is, "Was it total carnage out there?" Unfortunately, the answer is often yes. Usually just in the form of broken bones here and there, thank God, but it still means the use of local emergency services on out of towners (us). This is perceived as a giant pain in the ass by locals.

More BASE jumpers, coupled with publicity, undoubtedly result in a bigger audience and a higher chance of injuries occurring (simply because there are more jumps being made).

Taking time off of and limiting large events is a great idea, in my opinion. If there arises the need to charge a day use fee, maybe it could be limited to large events only? I know that donations have been taken at these events to benefit emergency services, but the local government may want something more official and not so "grassroots".

The downside for jumpers? You don't have 40 buddies every time to head to Twin Falls. But do you really need that? My favorite times have been when my buddies and I had the bridge all to ourselves, with the occassional stranger or friend joining us on a load. Your mileage may vary.
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Re: [lifewithoutanet] Twin Falls Opinions: The Beginning of the End?
we need this bridge to SELL CANOPIES RIGS and of corse bring idiots with 40 skydives into the sport so then they can go home jump a real abject and die. waht would we do with out it god knows i would never be able to jump again
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Re: Twin Falls Opinions: The Beginning of the End?
Re: emergency service costs...

The jumper pays for the ambulance ride, but what about police, fire and anyone else involved doing paperwork and being present on the taxpayer's dime? Not just in accidents, but policing tends to increase where there are more people. When a larger event is expected, more officers are put on duty.

While I think car accidents from rubberneckers are very rare, the potential is a concern for some. It takes police to handle and (possibly) prevent these situations.

I think traffic congestion is the biggest concern.

I'm not playing devil's advocate, I'm just looking at it from their view and thinking of reasonable measures we can take to express our gratitude for this object without sacrificing our fun.
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Re: [dploi] Twin Falls Opinions: The Beginning of the End?
It's called politics... letter writing and campaigning will serve us much better than ever thinking we should pay or be regulated in any sense.
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Re: [TomAiello] Twin Falls Opinions: The Beginning of the End?
My personal opinion is that these are the natural growing pains of a sport which has established itself world wide as a legitimate athletic/recreational past-time.

Everyone just needs to keep jumping and more legal sites will open. I am basing that opinion on the models of other sports, ie snowboarding and skateboarding.

The recent BASE extravaganza in Twin was a boon to society and the sport, nothing to apologize for.

Another opinion I have is that some jumpers want more reasons to hate on other jumpers. How nice would it feel for some people to be able to say, "I told you you were bad for the bridge."?
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Re: [jimmyh] Twin Falls Opinions: The Beginning of the End?
It sucks, but the more legal sites we get, the more likely we are to be regulated and the harder and higher profile other objects will probably become.
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Re: [TomAiello] Twin Falls Opinions: The Beginning of the End?
I don't really have a problem with an access fee for objects. I pay to take my boat to the lake, park at the airport, hunt, or fish, etc. If the money is used correctly it could improve the current situation.

Are we costing the city money? I guarantee the city doesn't think so or they wouldn't encourage us to come back.

I could see where blocking one lane of the bridge for a day would be a major inconvenience, but this doesn't happen all the time. It's actually very, very rare. I was present Memorial Day weekend and the larger orange construction barrels were much more of a traffic issue than the jumpers and we had the helicopter there four times and the ambulance there probably at least six. Normal jumping, even on high turnout weekends doesn't affect the traffic on the bridge. People looking off the bridge to view the canyon has as much impact.

There are additional costs to the city when we have a large turnout like Memorial Day but it is generally offset by the additional tax revenue.

I think that when communities; whether it be cities, corporations, families, or individuals reach a point of needing additional revenue they start looking at all possibilities. A bunch of people coming to your town to jump off your bridge would seem like a ready source of income in almost anyone’s analysis.

But what do we care. We are a bunch of out-of-control hellions that do what we want when we want and no one is going to tell us any different…Right? I think we should all get together a buy a cliff somewhere, erect a tower with a bridge to our multi-story living quarters/bar and tell everyone else to just piss off!

Or we could just pay the price of participation and be happy…
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Re: [tfelber] Twin Falls Opinions: The Beginning of the End?
In reply to:
Or we could just pay the price of participation and be happy…

happy? yes. satisfied? never.Tongue

the pay sites (BD) are great, but the free ones are truly priceless.
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Re: [tfelber] Twin Falls Opinions: The Beginning of the End?
The Perrine - illegal base site????

Why that would mean........

oh yeah....that would mean it would be like 99.9% of all other BASE sites worldwide.

The perrine is a very convenient luxury, not a necessity. If legal daylight jumps are the only/predominant jumps you make then i can see how it would be a personal loss, but in the big scheme of things, it's just one of thousands of objects which can still be jumped under the cover of darkness or at first light.

Having to ease back on the boogie like antics and base traffic there might not be such a bad thing in the long run. In fact i can think of numerous positives.

Surely there's a lesson here for everyone. These events are all well and good when you get the press you want, but it only takes one journalist with 'an angle' or one incident and the whole thing can easily blow up in your face.

Just imagine if that record event had seen a fatality. You'd be looking at some seriously shit caked fan right now. The same applies 100% to the UK crane boogie i was just part of. Inviting any attention (especially media attention) to any base jump is a seriously risky endeavour and you better be prepared for the 'recoil' if anything doesn't quite go to plan. It is after all a very dangerous activity and when things go wrong it can get a lot more messy than a rad wipe out at your mini half pipe.

ian
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Re: [MMK] Twin Falls Opinions: The Beginning of the End?
I bet at least some of those editorial authors have at least one of those ubiquitous "Support the troops" stickers on their cars. Well, it's time for them to put their money where their mouth is. Gee, thanks for the verbal support... But if they can't handle a once-in-a-blue-moon charity event that does nothing but slow down traffic, what kind of "support" did they possibly have in mind?? Being proud that their town could host a unique fundraising event would be a far more laudable attitude in my opinion... instead it sounds like they are saying, "Sure, raise scholarship money for a kid whose parent is killed in Iraq, but be sure to give us our cut."

It's Godd-mn F-ing disgusting. The authors should be ashamed.

Police and other government agencies get involved in charity events all the time. Should they bill a charity car-wash in an urban parking lot, because there's a statistical 0.0001% increase in policing costs as a result?

So they want to charge me $10 a day? To walk on a sidewalk? You've got to be f$*king kidding me. I already pay their taxes and buy their services every time I visit. I may only do legal jumps, but I can live without Twin if it ever comes to that.

If I ever (God forbid) need an air ambulance ride, I'll gladly pay. I'll pay the police department for the paperwork they filed, and I'll pay anyone else who was inconvenienced one iota due to my goof-up.

Oh, and, the people who would pay 10$ a day... how many days a year do you go there? Guess what, it starts to add up if you like to go for a week at a time, a couple times per year. Maybe you don't bust your ass year round so you can take your only vacations there. Maybe that's not the only jumping you get, though contrary to what some people here assume, not everybody has an object nearby. And, maybe, not everybody is morally comfortable trespassing. What about the locals? Do you honestly think it's even remotely reasonable for them to pay a $3,650 tax to jump year round? If you answer yes, well then, I don't usually resort to personal attacks, but you are a complete idiot. The taxes on the house I live in do not even cost that much. Will they jump every day, no, but that's not the point.

I'm writing a letter to the editor tonight. It will be polite, articulate, and as diplomatic as possible, but my position will be resoundingly clear. I hope everyone else does too.
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Re: [Colm] Twin Falls Opinions: The Beginning of the End?
In reply to:
It's Godd-mn F-ing disgusting. The authors should be ashamed.

as much as i disagree with their "opinion", i have to disagree. newspapers are printed for one reason and one reason only... to MAKE MONEY. forget all that BS about spreading "news" and informing their "people". furthermore, an editor's page or opinion page is designed to stir up shit. more pissed off people fuel more readers and more money.Tongue

unless the paper is biased, or your letter is out of line, they should print it as well. i look forward to yours and those like it .Smile
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Re: [blitzkrieg] Twin Falls Opinions: The Beginning of the End?
In reply to:
In reply to:
It's Godd-mn F-ing disgusting. The authors should be ashamed.

as much as i disagree with their "opinion", i have to disagree. newspapers are printed for one reason and one reason only... to MAKE MONEY. forget all that BS about spreading "news" and informing their "people". furthermore, an editor's page or opinion page is designed to stir up shit. more pissed off people fuel more readers and more money. Tongue

unless the paper is biased, or your letter is out of line, they should print it as well. i look forward to yours and those like it . Smile

You have a valid point, but their motive for printing a disagreeable statement does not change my opinion that the statement is disagreeable. I concede the "big picture" to you, but that particular "big picture" in this case will not help us keep BASE jumping tax-free.

Unfortunately, many people prefer to let their editors do their thinking for them.

I look forward to reading your letter too, should you write one... will you offer us such an opportunity? Wink
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Re: [Colm] Twin Falls Opinions: The Beginning of the End?
you never can tell...Wink

but, you are right about the "sheep". unfortunate, really.Tongue
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Re: [Colm] Twin Falls Opinions: The Beginning of the End?
In reply to:
If I ever (God forbid) need an air ambulance ride, I'll gladly pay.

Are you referring to the insurance fees that would cover such an event, or to the actual cost? If you mean the latter, do you have any idea what an air ambulance ride actually costs?
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Re: [JaapSuter] Twin Falls Opinions: The Beginning of the End?
When my buddy broke his hip in TF he told me to get rid of the heli, but they insisted on checking him out and said it would be free to look at him. We asked how much it cost to ride and I think it was 10k to magic and 20k to Boise.
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Re: [Colm] Twin Falls Opinions: The Beginning of the End?
 
Man I just luv this statement. I been laughing for an hour.

tfelber:
..."I was present Memorial Day weekend and the larger orange construction barrels were much more of a traffic issue than the jumpers and we had the helicopter there four times and the ambulance there probably at least six."

-
.
Ya Know ? Sounds like a 3-ring circus under the Big-Top to me.. 'under the Big-Top' instead of a very large Tent. It would be the bridge. Think of it this way. On a smaller comparison it's Kinda like doing a couple BASE jumps at Bridge-Day. Then sitting down at the bottom for the last couple hour, having a couple cold beers and watching all the carnage for entertainment.
The BIG DIFFERENCE though between these two bridges is ? The W.Virginia bridge is only a 3-Ring Circus 1-day a year. The rest of the 364 days a year it is a actual BASE site that on the most part is respected and is jumped by real BASE jumpers.
but on the other hand, The Idaho bridge is a Circus 365 days a year with the parade of The Clowns leaving in ambulances and helicopters for the Tourists entertainment and the Cities scrutiny. OHhhh also don't forget ? It's the year-round, legal, daylight BASE FJC training capitol of the world also. It's Kinda Like the Circus Clown collage. Some times you get a real BASE jumper to graduate and move-on to the real jump world. But for the most it's kind of like BASE Community Collage for skydive FJC graduates with a few jumps that wana try, The Excitment of the Big-Top.
Come One Come All to see the Show. Sometimes you get a "Trained Act of BASE jumpers" then sometimes you get the Clowns. Either way you get entertainment.
.

I like this Post too.

saber210:
"The Perrine - illegal base site????
Why that would mean........
oh yeah....that would mean it would be like 99.9% of all other BASE sites worldwide.
The perrine is a very convenient luxury, not a necessity. If legal daylight jumps are the only/predominant jumps you make then i can see how it would be a personal loss, but in the big scheme of things, it's just one of thousands of objects which can still be jumped under the cover of darkness or at first light.
Having to ease back on the boogie like antics and base traffic there might not be such a bad thing in the long run. In fact i can think of numerous positives
."
.
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Re: [d_goldsmith] Twin Falls Opinions: The Beginning of the End?
In reply to:
It sucks, but the more legal sites we get, the more likely we are to be regulated and the harder and higher profile other objects will probably become.

Maybe for legal objects but definitely not high profile objects…

On the flip side of the coin and if you really think about it, you are regulated now. Ask yourself, if you were on an object that is “so called” not either legal or illegal can a cop us a catch 22 law to bust you? Of course they can… So in general, you are being regulated whether you like it or not… Just don’t get caught :)…

In reply to:
It sucks, but the more legal sites we get, the more likely we are to be regulated and the harder and higher profile other objects will probably become.

I beg to differ... Bank robberies have become easier to do these days then back in the day; now you can simply use a note instead of a gun… Not to mention, we are not the fish they are worried about frying. If more thefts or vandalism took place on the objects we jump then that’s a different story. As long as we stick to only stealing altitude, the ROI (Return On Investment) will never exceed the cost of catching a BASE jumper on a high profile site. Economics 101… Granted there is the argument that becoming more aware of BASE jumpers will simply prove to the public where flaws already exist. And again, the movie Fight Club does an awesome example of explaining a Corporation’s greed… It takes a HUGE lawsuit and many people dieing before Corporations will spend money on something they don’t have to. Even post 9/11... For example, you should see this great video I have of jumping an Internalional Air Traffic Control Tower in America post 9/11...

Michael
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Re: [TomAiello] Twin Falls Opinions: The Beginning of the End?
what ever happen to"the land of the free"

No way anyone is ever going to charge for jumping off the bridge, that is retarded. if they charge anything means they will be liable for anything that would happen while jumping, (like broken bones and death)

And if there is a fee to jump off who will enforce it? Tom? Honor system? What will happen if you jump and don't pay? Will you get banned for a day, a week, for ever? we might have to start jumpimg off in disguse? that will be fun. i will find a new use for all my fake ids...

I'm sure you boys and gilrs in tf will make some good news in the paper and all this will just go away,(i hope) cuz is just a good place to jump.
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Re: [abby] Twin Falls Opinions: The Beginning of the End?
Did anyone else notice he forgot to mention the raffle and donation thats was made last memorial day? Its not like we as a community have not tried to give back in other means than tax money and frequenting local bars and restaurants
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Re: [RayLosli] Twin Falls Opinions: The Beginning of the End?
Ray Losli has some funny ass posts. Adding to his latest, I'm not at all suprised at this article. With all the wankers that jump there, some bad shit is bound to happen. This sport has gone from a few buddies getting together, sneaking around at night, jumping, then swizzlin' down some beers---to full scale media-whoreing events.

It's only a matter of time before someone in the local community gets pissed at all the madness going on and shuts that fucker down.

I would love to bandit jump Twin someday!!!!

Out with the boogies and large public "events". Stay with the low-profile, chilled out trips with a few friends and lots of swizzlers.

Now back to your regularly scheduled program.
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Re: [Colm] Twin Falls Opinions: The Beginning of the End?
In reply to:
It's Godd-mn F-ing disgusting. The authors should be ashamed.

In reply to:
So they want to charge me $10 a day? To walk on a sidewalk? You've got to be f$*king kidding me. I already pay their taxes and buy their services every time I visit. I may only do legal jumps, but I can live without Twin if it ever comes to that.

In reply to:
I'm writing a letter to the editor tonight. It will be polite, articulate, and as diplomatic as possible, but my position will be resoundingly clear. I hope everyone else does too.

but will your response be accurate?

the editorial sounds as if they wish to charge organizers of the larger events, not the quiet, daily jumpers. it would be easy to charge the person overseeing an event (or people packing at the visitor's center).

it would be virtually impossible to charge each and every jumper. jumpers would STOP notifying the police, so the police could NOT ignore calls about suicides...

I tend to agree with NickDG. as we organize events, we will get more of these issues. they will lead to further organization, and eventually, a national body. jumpers will care about following the rules.

I prefer BASE jumpers being creative and independent. bandit jumps encourage those skills. high profile events do not.

I like knowing it is my decision to jump an object. it is my call. I may stand down even when everyone else jumps. when I jump, I am responsible for the consequences. getting wet, damaged gear, injuries, arrest, all result from my decision.

the editors are only responding to problems we have already created. you can argue they are wrong (and feel better), but will they listen?

this just looks like an unintended consequence of high profile activity. why not vent on the people creating these events? or do you deny a connection?
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Re: [wwarped] Twin Falls Opinions: The Beginning of the End?
I have to question how much sway the Times News actually has on the local community. For being the only local paper and main media outlet for Twin Falls I believe it has a relatively small impact on public policy. The majority of the time the paper is limited to gossip and quips, ususally directed to an individual or family.

It has also been grossly inaccurate on many "headline stories." The editorial is rarely local, and they are usually just trying to find something the write about. If I remember correctly, during the event last year there was an editorial about how good it was.

After years of knowing this paper from the inside and out, I would not personally rely on their editorials as an accurate portrayal of Twin's public opinion.
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Re: [hollyhjb] Twin Falls Opinions: The Beginning of the End?
I would tend to agree with you, and NickDG put it pretty well
"On the other hand we might be getting all knotted up for nothing. Consider the sorry plight of the small town editorial writer who has a blank page staring him in the face every morning. He has to write about something. So it was only a matter of time before he got around to us. I’ll go further and say the editorial writer is also using us. He’s using us to earn his paycheck."

But Tom said the newspaper caries a fair bit of weight. Maybe he just likes reading the paper.

Maybe the person that wrote it is trying to run for office in TF. Seems like a political move.
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Re: [d_goldsmith] Twin Falls Opinions: The Beginning of the End?
Yeah, but I don't think Tom was around when the paper spent nearly a month debating whether it was ok for a father to keep his teenage kids from taking a drug test...or the time that the front page story was whether there should be divides on Blue Lakes Blvd or the time a kid was arrested at the elementary school, the paper said it was for drug possession; the kid really just had a pocket knife...and then there was the time (about 5 years ago) they wrote about building a new high school, the editorial said that it was one of the most supported issues: there is still only one high school.

Not to mention they can't keep an editor for an entire year. This paper is used as a launch or a fall back for writers/editors.

I lived in Twin Falls for 19 years, and my mother works for the paper. I've seen it all, and it's usually a bunch of crap.
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Re: [hollyhjb] Twin Falls Opinions: The Beginning of the End?
I'm basing my estimate of the Times-News impact on public opinion on the number of people I've met who only become interested in an "issue" (of whatever kind) after the paper runs an article or editorial about it, and the number of people who I've heard parrot back to me whatever they read in the paper about BASE jumping (no matter how accurate or erroneous, they were sure it must be the way it was because it was in the paper). These were generally well educated, intelligent folks, who had sophisticated opinions on subjects that interested them, but just seemed to pick up the newspaper's views on other topics (like BASE jumping).

That's a set of issues that are unrelated to the quality or journalistic integrity of the paper itself, which appears to be what you are driving at.
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Re: [TomAiello] Twin Falls Opinions: The Beginning of the End?
Perhaps engaging the journalist on the 'relevant' points raised in this thread might show how seriously you ( as a local) take his points.....
I reckon if people saw that the 'international' BASE community was concerned about the impact of that article it might actually make people more pro 'our' side...ie they will realise that BASE jumpers who are 'not in town' do actually care about keeping the site accessable.

just an opinion
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Re: [dride] Twin Falls Opinions: The Beginning of the End?
In reply to:
Out with the boogies and large public "events".


Best thing said in this thread.
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Re: [JaapSuter] Twin Falls Opinions: The Beginning of the End?
In reply to:
In reply to:
If I ever (God forbid) need an air ambulance ride, I'll gladly pay.

Are you referring to the insurance fees that would cover such an event, or to the actual cost? If you mean the latter, do you have any idea what an air ambulance ride actually costs?

What is important here, is whether or not I fully compensate the public for any debts I incur as a result of a medevac trip.

Whether I pay for that out-of-pocket (i.e. self-insurance) or through a purchased insurance plan is entirely irrelevant to the town.

And to answer your question, yes I do have a good idea of what an air ride costs. Let me further suggest that if the alternative was death, I would pay far more. Wouldn't most folks gladly give their last dime, and their last worldly posession, if the alternative to a medevac ride was to die in the canyon?
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Re: [wwarped] Twin Falls Opinions: The Beginning of the End?
In reply to:
but will your response be accurate?

Touche- The editorial makes several points. Some of them are valid, some are not. Before I complete my response to them, I will be sure to carefully consider the angle.

In reply to:
the editorial sounds as if they wish to charge organizers of the larger events, not the quiet, daily jumpers. it would be easy to charge the person overseeing an event (or people packing at the visitor's center).

They say exactly this:

"The simplest and fairest solution, for starters at least, might be to charge BASE jumpers a modest use fee--say, $10 per person per day."

I read back and checked the context, and it is not very clear to me that they only imply this charge in the context of an organized event.

Furthermore, what constitutes an organized event? If your charity group coordinates shutdown of a traffic lane, ok that is organized. But is memorial day an organized event? That's debatable. Who's the organizer? If I "organize" myself and 3 buddies to take a trip there during the summer, is that organized? I dispute your paragraph above. It sounds explicitly like they want to charge "the quiet, daily jumpers."

If I burden the town next labor day when I go and jump, please let me know in what way I burdened them, and I'll pay 'em back.

I will gladly agree though (as I PM'ed to another guy), that if an organized event seeks to deplete a public resource, they may be liable to the public for repayment. A town board would be well within their rights to seek compensation for a quantifiable loss. It is entirely a separate debate, whether or not the town should reclaim such compensation from charity events.

In reply to:
this just looks like an unintended consequence of high profile activity. why not vent on the people creating these events? or do you deny a connection?

The burden to the town seems trivial to me. And, BTW, I don't think it counts as a burden to simply use the town's air ambulance as long as you don't stiff them on the bill. After all, it's their job to be there for those who need them. I believe that in a post-Memorial Day newspaper article, someone involved in rescue even said that they spent far more time on lost snowmobilers.

The article said, "it's time to start a serious local discussion about managing it." That's a great idea, and that's partially taking place in this forum. But they also said, "it's not our responsibility to underwrite it[BASE], either." Yet as far as I can tell, they have not quantified their supposed underwriting, and I am very confused on what exactly they have underwritten. If they want to ask me for money to jump, I would like them to first be able to tell me how much I cost them otherwise.

Otherwise, they are just taxing me (and you) for the hell of it.
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Re: [Colm] Twin Falls Opinions: The Beginning of the End?
In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
If I ever (God forbid) need an air ambulance ride, I'll gladly pay.

Are you referring to the insurance fees that would cover such an event, or to the actual cost? If you mean the latter, do you have any idea what an air ambulance ride actually costs?

What is important here, is whether or not I fully compensate the public for any debts I incur as a result of a medevac trip.

Whether I pay for that out-of-pocket (i.e. self-insurance) or through a purchased insurance plan is entirely irrelevant to the town.

Generally, most people don't have BASE specific insurance. That means they are relying on their regular health insurance to cover them for BASE accidents. This insurance is based on a mean behavior derived from a large group of people, only 0.00001% of which BASE jumps, and relying on the statistical behavior that at any given time there are more people that don't need insurance than there are people that do.

Insurance is paying a fee to handle the risk, not a definite outcome.

Now many of the non-BASE jumpers may very well be smoking, driving race-cars, climbing, eating fat food, or participating in other activities potentially harmful for one's health, it doesn't matter; BASE jumpers have higher risk of ending up using an above average amount from the accumulated insurance-pot.

As a test, just call several random insurance companies and ask them if they cover BASE jumping or not, and if so; if it costs more than average.

Now you may very well know that already. In fact, I hope so. I am only bringing this up because I've found that many people are just relying on their regular insurance without properly inquiring into what is covered, and possibly using cover-stories (fell with my skateboard) to get refunds for their health costs.

By doing so, those people are cheating the system and using more money than they strictly speaking deserve.

(And again, you can bring up the smokers, the obese, the lazy, and whatever. It doesn't counter the point, it just provides another example of it.)

No longer directed at you, but at all readers of this post; if you are just relying on your regular health benefits and haven't looked into BASE specifics, I encourage you to do so. It only takes one significant accident with a few operations and a long stay in the hospital to extract more money from the system than you would put in during your entire life. Denying that you're at higher risk of having such an accident as a BASE jumper is whoefully ignorant. Saying that insurance companies are greedy bastards that make enough money already doesn't do much good either; you're more than welcome to start your own insurance company that covers BASE. You'd be surprised how high the fees would have to be.

In reply to:
And to answer your question, yes I do have a good idea of what an air ride costs. Let me further suggest that if the alternative was death, I would pay far more. Wouldn't most folks gladly give their last dime, and their last worldly posession, if the alternative to a medevac ride was to die in the canyon?

Yes, this is quite obvious to anybody. But that's hindsight reasoning. It's very easy to say: "I'm about to die unless I pay somebody 60 grand right now." Of course you'd find the money somewhere.

It's a lot harder to say: "I'm about to leap off this bridge, I'm a little fuzzy on the insurance details. I don't think I have 60 grand lying around, so I'll just hope that my jump goes okay and that I won't get hurt. If I do, I'll just hope that my insurance covers me, otherwise I'd surely go bankrupt...."

I've met many people that'll say: "...ah, fuck it. We'll worry about that when it comes." Next thing you know, they're hurt at the bottom of the canyon and more than willing to go bankrupt just to stay alive.

I guess my point was; many people don't put in any effort to understand how insurance companies actually work. If they did, they would pick up the phone and sort out their BASE specific situation. Surely they'd gladly pay for an air ambulance ride if they're about to die, but it's a moot point when one can spend a few minutes up front and sort it out properly.
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Re: [JaapSuter] Twin Falls Opinions: The Beginning of the End?
Who needs a helicopter anyway – just stop calling them.

Rick - or was it Randy – Harrison, crawled out of the Black Canyon, through the night, on his hands and knees with two badly broken ankles.

Don Swayze severed his foot so badly Doctors later took it off, but he crawled through a field, and down a city block trying to make it to his car. He finally had to call for help, in sight of his vehicle, because his was losing too much blood.

I rode 75 miles to the nearest clinic down a bumpy road in the back seat of a car with two broken legs and ate both headrests.

My point is you only need the helicopter when you really need it.

Why not this – Put an advert in the local paper:

Now Interviewing Volunteers
Snake River BASE Rescue Squad (SRBRS)
Must be Able to Jog from LZ to CZ w/Litter
Must Have Cell Phone & Car (Station Wagon a Plus)
Must Live or Work Close to Bridge
No Pay – Just Glory!

If we get the right half dozen or so people we could all chip in for their basic EMT training, even buy them uniforms and equipment. Then we could put a siren up on a pole above the Outback Steak House wired to a big red button down in the canyon. When the SRBRSer's hear the signal they'd leave their homes and jobs and come running. We could even get them red dashboard cherries so they could blow the red lights on the way . . .

It would also be like a periodic mining disaster, that would involve the whole town on a gut level and then once we get the good ladies of the area in the churches praying for us, we're in for keeps, boys. Then if we could just manage to not blow the damn siren for six months, or so, the occasional blip - like M-Day - wouldn't seem so out of proportion.

I would imagine that paying EMT jobs are scarce so maybe there are folks willing to do it just for the practical experience they could then take elsewhere. I met an American Indian once who told me, "If you don't like the local "anything here" start one of your own."

NickD Smile
BASE 194
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Re: [Colm] Twin Falls Opinions: The Beginning of the End?
"A town board would be well within their rights to seek compensation for a quantifiable loss. It is entirely a separate debate, whether or not the town should reclaim such compensation from charity events."

Keep in mind the town hasn't said anything yet, and might not say anything at all. And sending letters to the paper might spark another article.

I like Nick's idea, but I doubt we could keep something like that rolling without funding.
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Re: [d_goldsmith] Twin Falls Opinions: The Beginning of the End?
Yup, no bucks, no backboards . . .

NickD Smile
BASE 194
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Re: [d_goldsmith] Twin Falls Opinions: The Beginning of the End?
In reply to:
"A town board would be well within their rights to seek compensation for a quantifiable loss. It is entirely a separate debate, whether or not the town should reclaim such compensation from charity events."

Keep in mind the town hasn't said anything yet, and might not say anything at all. And sending letters to the paper might spark another article.

Nor would I suggest that the town does so... I merely offer the point here as a concession to those who correctly point out that some organized events using public resources, including BASE events, can conceivably burden a town in minor ways.

I've made my points... I'm writing a letter.. I'm going to bed! Tongue
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Re: [Colm] Twin Falls Opinions: The Beginning of the End?
Is this an issue only because we want to make it one? If anything happens to TF, will it be because a couple guys from the newspaper said a couple things in the back page of a paper that few people read?

Don't stand on the rail, don't bring cranes to the bridge, and be nice to the cops and locals.

Cool. Done. Next... Can we all just jump now?
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Re: [NickDG] Twin Falls Opinions: The Beginning of the End?
It was Rick, who broke his heal, not both ankles during the daytime.
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Re: [Colm] Twin Falls Opinions: The Beginning of the End?
In reply to:
They say exactly this:

"The simplest and fairest solution, for starters at least, might be to charge BASE jumpers a modest use fee--say, $10 per person per day."

I read back and checked the context, and it is not very clear to me that they only imply this charge in the context of an organized event.
it also said:
In reply to:
For starters, major BASE-jumping events that attract hundreds of people and require extra public services should not be treated the same as the activities of individual BASE jumpers. It's not unreasonable, in our view, to expect a large-scale spectacular to post a bond or pay a surcharge to cover the costs of police and emergency services overtime.
doesn't sound like they wish to charge low profile jumpers...

earlier they wrote:
In reply to:
Last weekend, emergency medical crews and law enforcement officers--all working on the public's dime--worked to make another BASE jumping event safe. And a lane of the Perrine Bridge was blocked to accomodate a large crane being used in an attempt on a BASE-jumping record, while northbound traffic was backed up for blocks along Blue Lakes Boulevard North.

Maybe it's time that the citizens of Twin Falls and Jerome Counties stopped subsidizing this year-round three-ring circus.
so Dan's event for a deserving cause appears to trigger this editorial.

hopefully Holly is right, and the paper holds little sway.

as I do NOT live in TF, the following is speculation...
many times events like these are viewed as PR stunts. Hollywood is famous for it. they love to get a stars image out there. when a star is serious about the cause, they frequently refuse to talk about themselves, just the cause.

thus, everyone involved in these charity record attempts ought to only talk about the charity. tell them you can talk about BASE any other day of the year. you are there to talk about the charity. talk to American Legions, VFWs, churches, etc. before the event, have a bake sale, etc. i.e. get the locals involved and excited about the cause.

again, maybe Dan and others did this, I do not know. we must make it clear that when the locals see a "circus" they know IMMEDIATELY it is for a just cause.

suggestion?
on known, high volume weekends (Memorial Day, Labor Day) should we consider obtaining a screen of some sort? I've seen them used to obscure road work or accidents. if drivers can NOT see us climb the rail, wouldn't that be less disruptive? would it not show consideration and respect?

thoughts?
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Re: [wwarped] Twin Falls Opinions: The Beginning of the End?
I think that's a great idea. We would have to make sure it wasn't an ubstuction for people that wanted to walk over the bridge obviously, but that wouldn't be hard.
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Re: [d_goldsmith] Twin Falls Opinions: The Beginning of the End?
In reply to:
I think that's a great idea. We would have to make sure it wasn't an ubstuction for people that wanted to walk over the bridge obviously, but that wouldn't be hard.

I'm not so sure. For the folks who drive over the bridge every day, a screen or something out there is going to be very unusual, and cause them to get distracted and slow down. To many of them, seeing jumpers isn't going to have nearly that much effect.
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Re: [NickDG] Twin Falls Opinions: The Beginning of the End?
In reply to:
My point is you only need the helicopter when you really need it.

Just curious, how many people have actually called the heli with standard tip/fib breaks / ankle dislocates that were not justified a heli call out?

I travelled 70 miles in the back of my own car with a severe dislocated ankle and shattered tib and fib that required bone grafts after being carried out of the landing area once my jumping partners had taken out the fencing with tools they ran back a mile to get to remove then replace just so there was no trace or authority called.............

Thanks People once again!

If you are willing to BASE jump, then you are willing to suffer to ensure no one knows you BASE jump when you hurt yourself.................

.....I actually thought that was standard criteria?
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Re: [Mac] Twin Falls Opinions: The Beginning of the End?
In reply to:
In reply to:
My point is you only need the helicopter when you really need it.

Just curious, how many people have actually called the heli with standard tip/fib breaks / ankle dislocates that were not justified a heli call out?

Unfortunately, there have been multipe incidents in which spectators called 911 to report a "parachuting accident" which they saw from the overlook. In many of these cases, an unnecessary helicopter was sent out, because the non-jumping spectator was totally unable to estimate the seriousness of the situation, and no communication was established with the jumpers in the landing area. Given that set of circumstances, it's understandable that the emergency response folks sent out their full setup (because they had no idea what was necessary, aside from the type of accident and the fact that the non-jumping spectator was telling them that it was "bad").

Jumpers have never called in a helicopter when they didn't need it. It's just that we're visible enough that other people call in the helicopter and we can't stop them.
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Re: [TomAiello] Twin Falls Opinions: The Beginning of the End?
In reply to:
and no communication was established with the jumpers in the landing area

Then its obvious if you want to keep the services and locals happy then..............

surely with the amount of jumpers who get pleasure from this site they will be willing to invest in something to ensure it does not piss off the local people or drain the resources from the emergency services.......

If I jumped there many times a year I would be more than happy to pay a fee to ensure the authorities are happy...........

Just because you like freedom, dont ever assume you deserve the freedom without any cost!
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Re: [Mac] Twin Falls Opinions: The Beginning of the End?
In reply to:
If I jumped there many times a year I would be more than happy to pay a fee to ensure the authorities are happy...........

That attitude is quite foreign to me. Such fees should be payed to offset legitimate costs, not to "keep someone happy," to paraphrase you. I already happily pay taxes on goods and services I purchase. The businesses I patronize are further taxed on the profit they make off of me. Why single me out for more, just because I brought a parachute with me? If all tourists are to be taxed, without regard to their pasttime, fine. But don't single out BASE when we are a drop in the bucket.

In reply to:
Just because you like freedom, dont ever assume you deserve the freedom without any cost!

In this case, the cost is payed for by vigilance and action, not by graft, which is what your suggestion amounts to.

Pay em to keep em happy... sounds more like Tammany Hall.
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Re: [Mac] Twin Falls Opinions: The Beginning of the End?
In reply to:
If I jumped there many times a year I would be more than happy to pay a fee to ensure the authorities are happy.....

Yes, but...

Let's say the guy who lives next door to me likes to ride his snowmobile. He doesn't pay any more taxes than I do. When he gets in a wreck out in the backcountry, local SAR comes out and gets him, and brings him back to where the help is.

I like to parachute off the bridge. When I get in trouble, they do the same for me.

Why should I be paying extra taxes that he isn't?

I realize that this isn't the case for most of us (jumpers), but for me and other locals, it seems silly that we ought to be paying more taxes than our neighbors who fish, climb, snowmobile, hunt, or whatever else, on the same public lands that we use.
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Re: [TomAiello] Twin Falls Opinions: The Beginning of the End?
In reply to:
but for me and other locals, it seems silly that we ought to be paying more taxes than our neighbors who fish, climb, snowmobile, hunt, or whatever else, on the same public lands that we use.

You realize that there are licenses required for hunting that cost about $200 and up. Fishing licenses are equally expensive, just not quite as bad. There are also park access fees with an annual fee or a per trip fee for the climbers and others. All for access on public lands. Then to top that off there are very detailed state laws that govern each one of those activites on public land.

Its not just a free ride for all of those activities on public lands. There are people that don't have licenses and hunt or fish or also break the law when they just go out and climb something or snowmobile somewhere, so they may not be the best example for a legal open access site that is free.
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Re: [AggieDave] Twin Falls Opinions: The Beginning of the End?
In reply to:
There are people that don't have licenses and hunt or fish or also break the law when they just go out and climb something or snowmobile somewhere, so they may not be the best example for a legal open access site that is free.

Hmmm. Yes, I see your point, but I'd rather see BASE in the "no permit" set of activities (like snowmobiling or climbing) than the "permit required" set (like hunting or fishing).

In general, the "permit required" activities (like hunting and fishing) require permits because they involve the consumption of a limited resource (the game being hunted), where the "no permit" activities do not (the rock, for example, is not used up by a climber progressing over it, nor is the air used up by a jumper falling through it).

I do realize that this varies from place to place (some places don't require fishing licenses, for example, while some places like a Texas state park require climbing permits).
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Re: [TomAiello] Twin Falls Opinions: The Beginning of the End?
In reply to:
I'm not so sure. For the folks who drive over the bridge every day, a screen or something out there is going to be very unusual, and cause them to get distracted and slow down. To many of them, seeing jumpers isn't going to have nearly that much effect.
understood.

but as you pointed out, we will never know somethings unless we try (and use that squishy stuff between out ears.) the key appears to be limiting our impact on traffic. local jumpers can best identify WHAT impacts traffic...
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Re: [TomAiello] Twin Falls Opinions: The Beginning of the End?
In reply to:
I do realize that this varies from place to place (some places don't require fishing licenses, for example, while some places like a Texas state park require climbing permits).

Right, except that the permit thing varies from park to park (as I understand it).

Just wanted to get your mind moving into that direction to see the government's line of thinking. You know I don't have to pay anything to ride my Mt. Bike at any of the state parks, except I still have to pay an entrance fee. Food for thought.
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Re: [wwarped] Twin Falls Opinions: The Beginning of the End?
In reply to:
the key appears to be limiting our impact on traffic. local jumpers can best identify WHAT impacts traffic...
Fiiiiiine... no more spike strips.
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Re: [AggieDave] Twin Falls Opinions: The Beginning of the End?
just to get your prices straight, hunting licenses are around $20, depending on the what your hunting.at least thats my experience for being a resident in the western states.
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Re: [mfnren] Twin Falls Opinions: The Beginning of the End?
In reply to:
just to get your prices straight, hunting licenses are around $20, depending on the what your hunting.at least thats my experience for being a resident in the western states.

I got the price from the state in question's website for non-residents. Since there are a large number of jumpers that aren't locals at Twin Falls. That way I thought I was being fair in my comparison.