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I've been thinking about a technique for low static line jumps that involves shortening the length of bridle between you and your tie off point but still allows for the benefit of a long bridle and pilot chute as back up. This method would also keep everything neatly arranged prior to exit.

1. Tie your bridle into a small loop about 2-3 feet from your pins or shrivel flap -- far enough away so you can still climb out. Taking a bite of bridle and tying an overhand knot should work.

2. Tie this loop to the attachment point with a small loop of break cord and a large loop of break cord.

3. S-fold the excess bridle and stow it loosely with a rubber band.

4. Tie the pilot chute attachment loop to the attachment point with another loop of break cord.

(see attached picture)

In theory this should work just like a well-executed PCA. As soon as you get line stretch you should break the first two loops of break cord. At bridle stretch you should break the final piece.

Has anyone tried this method yet? I'm wondering what effect the final piece of break cord would have on the opening. Any other coments?

Greg,

Do a search on carry with you static line.

It works like butter.

I like my break cords to be at the very end of the bridle, for many reasons.

I use three pieces: a short one and a longer one for the actual S/L and a 3rd one for the carry with you part.

I do s fold the bridle's slack and put a tail gate rubber band on it.

Honestly I would not put any knots on the bridle and 8 feet less of FF won't add anything, really.

Just my 0.02.

I'd be concerned about the launch being affected by 3rd break cord 7 feet higher than 2nd. You will be at line-stretch plus 7 feet of bridle when the 3rd break cord comes into play. I don't think this is a good thing.

I've watched experienced technical BASE jumpers (Neil Q, DTM and sabre210) do SL - they always used same 2 cord system. Also, have your SL 'sets' (short, long and bungy) tied together and ready. That way you don't have to fuck around on the exit point or ask a blue elephant for a bungy. This shit is dangerous don't try learn it off the internet.

What are you talking about?

All my bridles have a sewn in loop right below the PC attachment point.

I route all the 3 break cords through this same loop. Two are for the ACTUAL S/L (so if one fails there is a back-up). The third one is for the carry with you part. If everything works the third break cord does not break and pull the S/L around the object so you leave no trace. If the S/L gets trapped on the object, the 3rd cord breaks, you lose the S/L but no damage to the gear is done.

Again I do not like attaching anything on my bridle other than close to the PC attachment point.

Ask TowerTopper about his experience with the break cord few inches away from the bottom of the shrivel flap...

My response was to the original poster, apologies for not making this clear.

Hey Gweeks,

I have given this idea much thought myself and have infact used an overhand loop in the bridle closer to the pins/shrivel flap to effectively shorten the distance fallen before the canopy extraction begins on several occasions. What i haven't done is utilise the third piece of breakcord which controls the pilot chute and excess bridle beyond the loop. Contrary to what Nick said (and this isn't me having a go Nick so go easy on me), i think when you're getting into the sub 140ft static line arena, 8 feet would make a noticeable difference. It may not seem like a lot but if you were looking at say 120ft static line that is effectively a very large percentage of your total available altitude. 8 feet could be the difference between a fully pressurised flying canopy and a partially pressurised and plummeting one. It could mean the difference between flying over an obstacle or flying into it.

The Carry with you set up is a good setup but it doesn't solve the issue of having to fall the full length of the bridle before anything begins to happen.

Of course removing the full length bridle and pilot chute and replacing it with a specifically made shortened one simplifies the system even more, but then of course you don't have a pilot chute as backup, but then it could be argued you shouldn't be jumping so low if your tie off method isn't absolutely bombproof, but then you could argue that shit happens, but then you could argue how much the pc would save you anyway, but then.....etc etc etc

ian

ps. Will, thanks for the compliment but i'm really not.

Good points.

I thought too of making a 3' bridle with no PC...With two break cords not touching the object chances that things will go wrong are nil but then again that big 46" at the end is always cheep insurance. I just got to get over the psychological constraints.

join the club.

ian

I would too. That's why I asked.


What makes you say that? How do you think it will affect the opening?


Did they use a regular bridle attached at the pilot chute? a shortened bridle? a regular bridle attached closer to the pins? If so, what did they do with the excess bridle and pilot chute? What were the results?


really?


I disagree. There is much to be learned here and elsewhere on the internet. There are highly experienced jumpers who read and post here. Plus thinking and chatting about this stuff is fun. Of course your primary sources of learning should be in person with experienced jumpers and application of techniques in controlled conditions.

How were your openings with that set up? Was the excess bridle and pilot chute just hanging over the edge? Any trouble there?


Ha! Sounds like what's been going on in my head.

> Honestly I would not put any knots on the bridle and 8 feet less of FF won't add anything, really.
Keep it for yourself, Nick!!! No offence!!!!!
There are fucking low sites where 1-1.5 m of height makes some difference, believe me!!!!!!!
In my latest very low SL jump, I made a loop in my bridle at the closest (to pin) point possible (still, it had to be compatible with myself standing up)

Then you should keep for yourself your set up as well

Honestly if 8' does make a difference then not having a 46" anchor will make a greater difference and maybe the 3' bridle with no PC might be the better option than a knot on a bridle.

By the way, If I am that low I'd rather d-bag: faster than the best S/L or PCA, no anchor, and great heading. So what if it's old school

I'd be more concerned about the 3rd (delayed) cord affecting body position. If the object, say a very low span allows you to just step off then fine but if a good hard launch is required then I wouldn't be happy about that 3rd SL which will come into effect almost 1 second into the jump. Would be nice to have a span to test on. Get some video from side and make comparisons.

static lines are scary.

Good point. I was thinking that the yank from the 3rd break cord could possibly affect your heading because the canopy would already be in the process of inflating, but I could see how your body position could also be affected.

> and maybe the 3' bridle with no PC might be the better option than a knot on a bridle
Well. When I know that I am going to do a SL jump, I rig my gear with my Special Bridle, which is nothing else than a 5.5mm-0.22" - 2.74m-9' dyneema rope, with sewn end loops, finger trapped curved pin and a "permanent" knot 30 cm - 1' close to PC attachment; but, being my Special Bridle a dyneema rope, whenever/wherever necessary I make an additional 8 knot and there I tie my CWY (Carry With You) with break cord and whatever else needed.
For low SL jumps, as well as for ANY SL jump, I keep my trusted 48" "special" PC (it's special because it's a ZP PC built on the Asylum shape, it's actual 48" and has got NO vent on apex).

> By the way, If I am that low I'd rather d-bag: faster than the best S/L or PCA, no anchor, and great heading. So what if it's old school
No problem, in fact. When it's extremely low, we do to use DB. But, in this case, there would the necessity of having one asshol.... ehhmmm... one bloke who is NOT jumping and who holds the DB. Done few times, but if all the blokes in the load are jumping, here we go with SL.
Or, a "fast procedure" is what we did once off a 51 m - 167 ft water tower. We were 5. #726 did PCA to the first three; I PCAed #726, while I had already setup my SL, and last (but not least ) off I came down SLing

In very low jumps, i prefer to self PCA rather than s/l or d-bag. It's easy to config and is simplicity itself.

You take your pilot chute and grasp it in your right hand. Raise your right hand as high up and as far behind you as possible. Launch head high and agressively. Wait till the PC is ripped out your hand by the deploying canopy then let go.

Best to try this from higher altitudes first though, preferably over 500ft. If after 2 second you don't feel the canopy deploying, then it means you may have dropped the PCA too early and are now in freefall. Immediately release the PC to salvage the jump and do not, repeat, do not trust yourself to do this to yourself on lower jumps.


Have fun

ian

> You take your pilot chute and grasp it in your right hand. Raise your right hand as high up and as far behind you as possible. Launch head high and agressively. Wait till the PC is ripped out your hand by the deploying canopy then let go.
————————————————————————————
Sorry. I didn't understand how the whole thing is rigged up.
Who/what is going to get the parachute out off the container, if you hold the PC?!?!? Is there a SL with a break cord "somewhere"?

Did I just read that or did someone slip LSD in my coffee?

Ian...I'm struggling to visualise what you are describing.....could you put it in a bit more detail?
if you launch with your hand held high...doesnt that hand 'descend' with the rest of your body..? how is the canopy extracted?

Sorry ...prob being stupid , I just cant see how it works..

Edited to add:.....err...got sucked in on that one...

Surprisingly no, well not as fast as the body. You see you're holding a pilot chute and this combined with your spread fingers creates drag which slows the hand down compared to the body.

The key is, once you reach line stretch, let go of the pilot chute fast.

Ian,

When I told you about this special technique I asked you not to reveal it to anyone and now you put it on a public forum!

You are a bad dogie!

How low are we talking about here?... We have a 150' site over solid ground that has had numerous S/L's off of it as well as a few tards with no problem. The S/L's were done using a single piece of brake cord tied to the end of the bridle with the access rubberbanded. I'd rather not complicate things with 3 pieces of brake cord. Personally I tard it since they open higher. Have fun, don't die.

Yeah yeah yeah....dont rub it in.....you got me already....

actually, you could self-PCA if you had the bridle routed behind a railing or something and held onto the PC. That just begs for disaster though... but i bet it would work (who wants to try first? anyone? )

No doubt. However many on this wonderful drokzone consider unpacked shit well as unpacked shit and not a true BASE jump.

By the way, why tard it when you can tard it over?

Tards are 90s man and as out as mullets

Is that was Sabre210 was talking about? I've been reading this thinking it must be a joke. How does the canopy get to line stretch (without the railing)? Do you pull the pins/velcro your self, and then hold the PCA? If so, why hold the PCA?

PCAing yourself with the railing does seem like it would work, but like you said, it could definitely become a mess. Since the bridal is shorter than your lines, if you hold on to long you pull your canopy up through the railing. Then the canopy,bridal(pins),PC has to go back through the railing and along the edge of the object on the way down.

Back to the S/L though, I heard about droptests that said there was a higher potential for premature break with a 9 foot bridal, and that you could lower the chance of premature break by shortening the bridal length. I doubt you have to worry about double premature break though.

Clarification: I was Not serious

It's been my experience that launching hard (or at all, really) on anything lower than about 140 feet can cause wicked oscillations on opening. If I was considering a static line system for very low jumps, I'd build it around a dead launch. If you're jumping a low solid object, probably your best option for an off-heading is to ride it into the ground.


Removing the anchor for very low jumps makes little difference. I tested both configurations on a 111-foot span and got basically the same results out of both. Unless you actually have time to fly, the PC doesn't seem to change anything. No point removing the PC, in my opinion.

Michael

I totally understand how this works. I tried an experiment as a kid with similar physics. It involved holding a rope in both hands, and trying to stand up on it, and hold myself up. Unfortunately, i wasn't strong enough. Also tried tying one end to a tree, effectively giving myself only half of the weight to hold. I still had problems with this method, but I got close, i assure you. Not sure if this really applies to the self-pca, but i think they present some similar challenges.

Just wondering if, at some point on the "low" scale, a backup PC might render itself useless. I.e., how high do you need to be to get a canopy to inflation using a PC? It seems that on really low objects, leaving the added snag potential of a big PC might not behoove the jumper, especially if the object is low enough that it won't make a difference. Then the static line setup will be much simpler. Also, as far as using two different lengths of break-cord to reduce the risk of a potential pre-mature break, I have noticed a significant increase in center-cell stripping with this method. It seems to me that using only one piece of break-cord doesn't cause this at all. Has anyone else noticed this trend? It seems to me that, unless the object has a tie off point with potential to cut the break cord too soon, it might be worth considering only one piece of 80 lb b/c to decrease center cell stripping, and get yourself flying sooner, and with better heading performance.

Dwain Weston and other guys had always said
using a PC was smart for static line jumps, sure as
a back up if your S/L pops prematurely, but more
so to help pull the pack job to line stretch faster.


How about you sell us on the benefits of removing
the pilot chute for jumps below 200 feet over hard
ground? FYI: canopy ride is less than 10 seconds.

This one's going to boil down to a difference of opinion.
Like anything else, when possible, I will always have a backup plan. That's just me. I tend to over-engineer everything when possible. If you want to s/l with a chuteless-bridle, you're putting all of your eggs in your "plan A" basket. If you're comfortable with that, so be it.

I absolutely agree that using a p/c as a backup is a must, whenever possible. I have only about 18 jumps in the 3-5 second canopy ride range, so I'm not speaking from much experience here. Just throwing out the idea that, on a given jump where a p/c might do more harm than good (for example, lots of snag potential, etc) IF that jump is low enough to negate the possibility of a p/c being beneficial, it might be worth thinking about leaving it behind. I also understand that every jump is different, and it is the responsibility of the jumper to weigh the risk/benefit of every aspect of his/her jump. Just my opinion. :) Thanks for the input. This post has inspired me to go jump a 140ft freestander I have been looking at... and, yes, my 48" will definitely be joining me on this jump :)

anyone tried using JUST a big p/c, say, on low jumps in the 12-18ft range? I tried this once as a kid, with a home-made p/c, and it seemed to work fairly well. I mean, granted, my wing loading was at a much better ratio at age 7, but it wasn't too bad at all. Your thoughts.

Any chance you had and uncle in the military (air cav) named Lieutenant Colonel Bill Kilgore who, in vietnam, insisted that his men either surf or fight?

I talked with Dwain Weston about this years ago. While it's a difficult proposition to test, he suggested that a PC is helpful at any usable static line altitude. His reasoning was thus: The most likely time for the break cord to go prematurely is when your canopy is being lifted off your back, since this is the point at which the force is greatest (before line stretch, of course). If your canopy has already started to lift off your back, and then the break cord goes, there is a reasonable expectation that the PC might finish the job all the way down to 100 feet or so.

Before removing the PC, I would also consider what you stand to gain. As I mentioned, I have not seen any difference in drag jumping a 111 foot object. As far as snag potential, I've always felt that the snag potential on objects is generally lower than jumpers think it is. If the snag potential for the PC is high, what other problems might you be flirting with?


This makes sense. You're applying the same peak force to the canopy, but over a longer period of time. So, you won't break anything, but you might distort it further.


If you're tying off to the object itself, I think you're doing it wrong to start with. The surface of any object is not consistent enough to be used as a tie off point, but particularly so on low jumps. If you want to leave minimal rigging behind, consider using a length of 1/2 inch nylon tape looped around a railing or something, and tied with a water knot. Tie off to this, instead of the railing itself.

You might also consider carry-with-you setups, but these have always struck me as adding more variables than I want to on very low jumps.

Michael

Definitely. Heard of him? Not a bad philosophy; I tend to go for the surfing, though...

Thanks for all the useful input. What you mentioned about the p/c being a backup as the canopy is being extracted makes a lot of sense. As far as snag potential goes, I'm never really one to jump an object with this problem. My questions were of a more hypothetical nature. And as far as tying off to the object, I'll normally bring a piece of webbing along, and tie it in a loop (with a water-knot) much like a small sling, just long enough to wrap around whatever part of the object I've selected, and then tie one piece of break cord through the loops. Basically, once you have jumped, that webbing will (hopefully) fall off the object, and you can find it on the ground. (At least it won't be up at the exit point still) Never really used carry-alongs, I'm interested in learning more about them for more sensitive objects, just seems like one more step to the equation.... On the lower jumps, it's not like it's that hard to climb back up and grab whatever you used as a tie-off. :)
Hey, I'd be interested in hearing your two cents on how you actually tie off to the bridle. I tend to use an overhand knot a few feet from the p/c, and adjust this length according to the jump/wind/object. I was noticing some fairly significant burns in the bridle from the break cord (looks like it is just cosmetic, not structural damage) but I'm wondering if anyone is using a method to prevent this. I did notice that these burns were MUCH less significant in jumps where only one piece of break-cord was used. I've thought about using a climbing style lightweight rap-ring, and tying it through the loop in the bridle, but I hate to add unnecessary pieces to the equation.

Great idea. I've always tied the loop around the rail, but your method has the advantage that the loop can be tied beforehand, and is less likely to remain at the exit point.


I've always done static line with a Velcro rig, so I've built a 6 foot long bridle from 7 mm cord. On each end, I use a followed-through figure eight to tie into the pilot chute and shrivel flap. About a foot from the pilot chute, I've tied an overhand knot on a bight to form a loop for the break cord.

If you're using a pin rig and standard bridle, I'd be very cautious about burns. It's hard to say how much damage has been done, and you really don't want to find out the hard way. It's your bridle, after all.

A lightweight rap ring or quick link tied into the loop of bridle may be the way to go here. In use, it will be hanging from the break cord until the system is loaded and the break cord releases. I can't see it increasing snag potential at all, or causing problems because of its weight, but it certainly would reduce wear on your bridle.


That's interesting. I've never noticed this difference, I think, because of the 7 mm bridle. However, it's an important thing to take into account if you're using a regular bridle. How loose is your second loop of break cord?

Michael