Basejumper.com - archive

Ok then, here it is, my new rig from Virtus rigging!

Smooth? I can`t wait to fly it, looks like it`s pretty aerodytnamic, dont you think?

Peace out,
Andreas

Looks sort of like the Softie bail-out rigs I've been packing, what's it have in it, a 24' round? Just kidding, I tried to look up "Virtus Rigging" and found nothing.

I kust built a new bike today so does evryone want to see pics of that to
AT LEAST ITS COOL
why is it so long and thin it looks like it rides on your ass i mean thats cool and all but do tell why. If u give a good short answer I might read it
does it have an RSL

I saw a similar shape BASE Rig in Norway a couple years ago being jumped by Peter in WS jumps.
It was an inverted wedge design ( thin on bottom/thick on top) but it was nowhere as thin a profile as this.
I am assuming you have this Rig in mind for WS ?
Where is the BOC ? cant see it. Must be on the other side. The Lat. looks pretty flexible also around the hips. Nice and light on the typ-17 chest strap too.
.
PS:
I hope you don't have the container-lock after deployment that Peter had. ...
.

 


Probably not on the rig, but just on the hip/leg of the wingsuit....



Be safe
Ed

More pics?
Looks like a pilot rig.

It's under the back of the rig ... See this pic

http://www.dropzone.com/...nt;postatt_id=62318;

Yo!

It is a pilot rig! I`m the pilot..

And I made it, because the stuff on the market today is not creating a smooth enough profile over your body. So once again VKB had to take matters in to their own hands..

It is by far the more aerodynamic rig out there as far as I know, and will soon be availeble for ya all! It is a must if you want to FLY!! not fall, then everything else is ok..

To continue the profile of the body as smooth as possible, as shown in pic 39, is what you want to get a good lift to drag ratio.. And these back deflectors every wingsuit is equipped with is just bogus, doesnt work. The profile needs to be smoth all the way.
At least continue further down the ass then today. to move the lifting point and the point of separation further back..

Hmm, where is that pilotchute hidden.. It is on the rig somewhere..

Enjoy,
Andreas

thats just bad ass
way to reinvent the wheel its really nice to see a fresh out look on BASE
thank u I hope u sell a shit load of them., and the rig looks fantastic

 

I guess you will have to make "ass extensions" for us wide ass american pilots...

our will have to learn to Hike...

Thanks, I think so to!

And I have already protected the design, so if anyone tries to copy it, I`ll sue their asses for millions!

Remember who came up with the design, and who is the creators of tomorrows flying gear when the copycats start pushing them..

More to come,
Andreas

Have you looked at Moe's old rigs? He made a very similar design back in the late 80's. The idea was to make it as low profile as possible to sneak it into high profile jump sites. I think NickDG posted a photo of it in this forum. It looks _very_ similar to yours.

VERY NICE JOB. Once you get it all tuned-up. It should flow well.
I am still waiting some day to see a totally integrated, WS/BASE rig. All one piece of, Container Mechanics & Fabric.
.

Haven`t seen that rig no, but I would like to.
So now I`m ther one getting sued, huh?

Well, pretty impresive that a very low profiled rig has been around since the 80`s and still people go and buy that other so called ws rigs!
People could have tracked and flown like hell years ago!

I guess it is because no one dear to be different and the first, and if its not hyped up and cool, people stay away from it..

Well tell Moe to get back in buisness again so we can change the perspective of people, and give them propper flying rigs!

I'm a little curious about the pack volume on that, ( jpg048 ) What you got in there a Stiletto 120 with Dacron lines ?
.

Not really, its a Flik 293 with 0p top.. No kidding.

No kidding... Sell me your old container then...

special packjob then ? or is it standard pro pack ? ... or maybe do you just drive over the whole thing with your car once finished?!

edited to add i really DO need packing lessons ;)

Looks like the rig goes half way down your ass. Explains the low profile.

im drinking one and burning one right now...cheers to vkb for continuing to
push human flight...

reminds me of some deug tales ive been reading, constantly reinventing, rerigging...

im interested in how much gain that rig profil will bring.... probably lots..

keep it up...

Wow, I wish it would get cold as shit here in Texas to where I cant do anything but design cool shit Looks good!

Come on Tom. Don't shit all over this guys attempt at doing something most will never do. It's one thing to be an arm chair rig designer, quite another to be an actual rig designer.
While it's true that Moe did build something "kind of" like this years ago (I've seen Moe's rig up close), the application was totally different and for that matter, so was the over all design. Low profile aside, Moes rig and this one are quite different.
This guy deserves an A for effort, and I'm just the guy to give it to him. Keep up the good work.
Kevin

Sounds like you have an idea worth pursuing. Get cracking and post pics when your done.
Kevin

Fu(king cool!!!!!!!
You guys really rocks!!!
A+++++++++
Keep up the good work!!!

Idea's are one thing. The drive to commit that much time/effort to it. Is another thing.
It's not that I do not luv my WS or posses knowledge. I think the biggest obstacle is, I am a Lazy Slacker. ....
.

Does the bottom of the rig get tied down somehow? If not wouldn't it flap with the lift and work the pilot chute out and then the bridle would wrap around the long bottom of the container and...?
ok ok i have about 80% more jumps slider off than slider up and still not many in total and i am just wondering if you are tying the bottom of the container down somehow or if you don't feel the need to and why...
thanks
poc

the VKB guys appear to know how to R & D new ideas.

remember, an airfoil creates a differential pressure between the bottom skin and the top skin. in this case, the bottom skin is his chest, torso, and wingsuit. there may be very little air pressing up against that extension.

but hey, that is what test jumps are for! good luck!

Yeah I'm just talking rubish again.

Good luck with the rig

poc

maybe.
maybe not.

while I admire VBK's efforts, not all designs work as planned. they DO have a great track record.

VBK demonstrate tremendous creativity that must stem from asking new questions. so, keep asking yours!

Consideration must be given to the disruption of airflow into the rear deflector present on today's high performance wingsuit designs. It seems that the length of this rig would cover the air inlet.

Whilst this may work with a newly designed VKB wingsuit, there may be problems with the Vampire (V1 & V2...).

Just inciting some discussion, but maybe Robi or James have some info about this?

I belive this new rig was designed for use with tracking suits (no deflector there), NOT with wingsuits.

Vandev s previous post shows it mounted on a wingsuit

So - since we are getting creative, we might as well reveal what will become the purpose built wingsuit/rig of the next generation:

- obvious final step is that the rig and suit will be one unit. Not two connectable and integrated units. Further, the shape (aerofoil) of the jumper will be incorporated into the design of the complete system to create a very uniform classically shaped wing. When you order the suit, you will have to specify 3-d shape and the manufacturers will be able to create a system that will perfectly fit your shape.

Some of the specs/ideas follow:

- the arm wings will become an integral part of the side flaps and riser flaps of the rig.

- the bottom flap of the container will seemlessly integrate with the leg wing. There is a possibility that the canopy may be packed into cells on the legs with the central part inflated via air flow. This is to keep the solid material with the body and the inflated material separate. This is kind of like splitting the nose when packing a reserve canopy - but is will be packed down instead of up.

- the top flap will be integrated into the inflated cell design around the head area.

- the material used for the flaps will be smoother to minimise drag. No cordura anymore.

- the helmet will be connected to inflatable cells that are then connected to the shoulders. This would be flexible to allow some degree of lateral movement of the head for visibility and awareness opportunities. The intent here is to create a camber shaped profile at the leading edge of complete system/person. There may be some form of solid side extensions from the helmet to assist in the formation of the leading edge camber.

- the cell(s) created around the head and shoulders will have some degree of rigidity introduced in order to enhance the shaping at the leading edge. Ideas include shoulder pads created from a variety of materials, etc.

- the footwear/shoes will become specialised and will allow for various turbulence created from standard shapes and designs. Vortice and parasitic turbulence around the shoes will be reduced as follows: the heel area will become a continuous/tight/stretched material running down the back of the leg towards the heel. There will then be a curved section at the base of the foot leading to a thin trailing edge past the extended toes. The material at the front (shin) part of the foot will be an elasticised section that leads to a solid section that finally ends up connecting to the thin trailing edge.

- there will be a cell running from the front of the helmet (chin) towards the chest area.

- all the harness material / webbing / hardware /etc will be internally contained and smoothed over to reduce parasitic drag.

The catch, only the most skilled / best wing suit flyers will be able to get the full benefit from this suit. The average Joe Blow (which is most of us) will have to spend a long time improving our flight skills on standard designs. The suit will have much higher inherent risks and hence will not be suitable for most people. But the rewards for those special ones will be great!!!!

And there is more . . . . .but that will come at a later time.

Tom Begic

April 2006

Note: these ideas occured in 1999 but as one person pointed out, laziness, lack of resources, and other priorities prevented them from coming to fruition.

BTW - good work by VKB to actually get ideas out into a real product (even if only a prototype).

Robbie P - kad ces mi napravit jednu? ;)

First of all, every effort in body flying is very welcome because we are such small community. :)

As far as the WS and WS specific rig issue goes, I can say following:

The WS extreme was designed in order to provide the jumper fine balance between maximum performance and versatility.

BASE jumper can use that rig for both slider up or slider down jumps, and will be able to climb antennas, chimneys, sneak through the buildings, and this rig will suit him 100%. Rig designers had a hard task to find that balance, because most of the jumpers want one rig and canopy (money issue ) which can provide them with best performance & safety regardless of the object type.

For example, combination of WS extreme and V1 or P+J will provide that optimal result. Easy to use, hike, climb....

Performance is, of course, top level. However, there are many things which can bring the performance on higher level too, but it is the question of ratio between complexity vs. efficiency. This is the main point which personally I always have on my mind.

However, many jumpers are working on their equipment in order to reach better performance...France, USA, Russia....me, Lucky are those who can do that !!!!

Norway is wonderful place for BASE flying. Topography of Norwegian cliffs is offering you more space to play than any other place. Other places have different limitations and demands. Therefore, designer's task is to find optimum for each piece of the equipment.

Aerodynamic aspects of such long rig can be discussed as well, but this is a different issue...
Regards RoBi

Robbie P - kad ces mi napravit jednu? ;)

Tom,
Upravo radim na gore opisanom... ali kao sto znas, ja idem van kada je stvar gotova, testirana i spremna za prodaju!!
Lijepu vecer zelim tebi i tvojima !!
:)
Robi

Integrated suit-container-harness, now we are getting somewhere.

The only problem is, if you want to call it so, that it is going to be a BASE-only suit...I know some of us don't care but the market might be too small for all that R&D for such a complicated project. Taking sydiving out of the equation is a bold move that probably won't pay off.

So in the end we have to get our hands dirty and do what the VKB boys have been doing for a while, i.e. their own work.

Znam Robi - samo se salim.

Molim te - pozdravi braca i Hrvatski padobranci.

Vidimo se.

TB

I guess this special yoke RP and JB added to their WS-eXtremes is first and easy step.

Hands dirty - exactly. Lots of work - definitely. Complicated - absolutely, hence, I don't think that there will be too many people who could fly it successfully.

There will be some people prepared to pay for the privilege of great flights.

The "skydiving market" is bigger than you think too.

r.e. doing their own work. Hats off to the VKB boys, and Robi P, and others.

The picture in my avatar is a home built suit. I'm all for it.

Tom, I'll bet you 5 bucks (American--that's like 2.7 million Aussie dollars ) that VKB has created such a system by this time next year. I'll bet you separately that such a system hits the commercial market within 3 years.

Well, some dear to be different and dont sit around speculating. I`ve made this rig, I`ve jumped this rig, successfully I might add.. Yesterday.. I know the difference between flying a traditonal rig and this new design.. And I know what I prefer..

And what does the fact that we have big walls to jump have to do with anything? New rig designs etc, will benefit everyone, regardles of jump site.

The human flight (r)evolution has just begun, in the future things will be a lot different, take my word for it..

But I totallt agree that when making gear, it is always about compromises, one thing will effect the other, often in a negative way. If you want to make something easy to hike with and do to acrobatics with, and at the same time fly like hell, its not easy.. As you know.

But when we have so many different ways of jumping and so many places to jump, one could chose what to do, and get or make the gear beneficial for the kind of jumping one wants. And the more experienced one get, one can jump more specialised wings, rigs, and get even more fun!

Oh, I almost forgot, take a look at my newest design, completing my setup...

Some try, VKB fly..

Peace,
Andreas

Isn't it easier just cut ears off? :-)

head, head has to be removed !!!
I found that years ago when the human flying started!!

The reason why wingsuits have these back deflectors, is because they want the body profile to be smooth all the way to the leg wing, for reasons I`ve posted earlier. And since the traditional rig design is the way it is, they need this deflector to at least try to smoothen the profile.

My rig is designed so that the profile is much longer and smoother, giving the desired effect.
And the effect of having a truly smooth profile is much better than you can ever have with a standard rig and a deflector, because the gap betwen the rig and deflector today is far from smooth. And it need to be 100% smooth to have any significant effect!

Peace,
Andreas

A. here is mine Tear drop helmet..
From old days when the human flying started
regards
RoBi

 

 

>>Sometimes I think that's why some of the real veteran skydiviers follow BASE, even if they choose not to participate. It reminds the of the way skydiving used to be.

Robi.
Why not just incorporate the leading edge of the wings with the head? The head would then become part of the wing. Or like you said, you just remove the head. That would be a neat trick.

I've seen a prototype that attempted this. It was reportedly very difficult to fly, and also created some problem with turning the head, which probably weren't insurmountable.

Since Robi won the last bet I offered, anyone want to bet 5 bucks that a "head included in leading edge" wingsuit will be available within 3 years?

Nice.. Why didnt you pursue this idea further?

You should have integrated some of that design in your new helmet..

I will..

Peace,
Andreas

Wait just a minute Tom. That's my bet you're trying to weasel in on. Just kidding.
Maybe try and isolate the position of the head, use peripheral vision, wing mirrors...maybe not.
It seems as though the head sticking out in front has a tendancy to act like a rudder. Maybe link the head and leading edge to lines or bungees attached to the feet. When fully extended guving tension to the leading edge?????
Shit fellas what the Hell do I know? I'm just a tracker. Can't wait to see the next development.

I thought one of the rules was that you always had to bet 5 bucks?

No Tom. that rule only counts if the person betting against you doesn't know rule number 7.
#7 "There are no rules." Don't worry Tom I'll post a full set of Mince Division rules somewhere. Maybe inside the visitors center toilets in TF or have them tattooed inside Ray Losli's mouth. That way whenever he's around and blabbing people will be able to read them at their leisure.

Don't be so confident. Our peso dollar has caught up quite a bit. Or rather, you guys are "catching down".

Watch out for thr Yuan!

Send the money to the developers of the systems now. That way the rig may come out sooner and I won't have to wait for the pensioners version with stiffeners and robotics for my rapidly decaying body!!!!!!

I am looking forward to it. There are others working on it too.

And the best thing will be that all men will be equal. The fat blokes who can't track for shit will be able to keep up with those long slender, athlete types. That's you and me baby!!!!!!

'Nice.. Why didn't you pursue this idea further?''

Working on everything together, but.... helmet is such small issue which takes about 2', while many other areas takes a lot in order to bring them to perfection...
BTW tear drop helmet is ''idea'' old about 40 years

Integrated arm leading edge-head is pain to do it right. It is so complex and at the end so dangerous for user that benefit of it possibly could be enjoyed for one jump only.
I will not push to this direction for sure.

Regards

I know the idea of this kind of helmet shape is pretty old, but still its pretty cool! Not everything is for performance...

And I have no intention of integrating the leading edge and the head, yet..

A head without a helmet is the most aerodynamic, so when we will be breaking the300 kmh horizontal, we toss the "teardrop" and shave our heads!

Adios amigo