Basejumper.com - archive

Tree and I spent this past week-end rigging.

I cannot thank him enough for his help in creating the life saving device.

The rig came out just dandy.

There are few things that are sort of unique. The fabric is a cool "ballistic nylon" that feels even heavier than cordura, yet it's got the shine of parapack and the look of carbon fiber. It should also be very durable.

The articulation is a 4 point-one not a 3 or 2 like other designs. The slot of the d-ring faces the lat, not the mail lift web. It was a shot in the dark but the end-result is the best fitting harness I have ever worn.

Tree's front flap design is IMO superior to any other designs.

Finally the Over-Cutaway system: In short a loop was built right above and under the d-ring. A l-bar is attached to the loop with the other end attached to l-bar risers. The latter is for the packed canopy. The d-ring is for the unpacked one. Tard-roll-float-gain-OVER then cutaway, back in FF and open the packed canopy (in the pic the silver are the d-ring risers, and the black ones the l-bar risers).

The only problem is that now Nitro Rigging has to invest in more sewing machines...Damn you Mark!

that is a sweet looking rig. i especially like the integrated second canopy attachment...

overall looks great, and well made to boot.

Looks awsome...I will give you my address so you can send it!

really nice....

KT
that rig looks totaly evil chrome infack I tell u what just to make sure it works and it doesn't fall apart like those risers u made for me. Lucky for me I had a reserve.
but any way if it does work, maybe I'll give it back.
does it come cypress ready. And I didn't see an RSL
on the rig whats the deal. but seriously that rig is Mohamud Jehad bauckala and tube steak worthy

..."I cannot thank him enough for his help in creating the life saving device. "
-

I don't think it is an actual Life Saving Device. Till you actually Jump It.
And You LIVE. .......
.

you should put a tree saw on the rig instead of a hook knife show u can get your self out off the trees. that way u could jump with out me..
PS when are u gonna build me a rig with a BC in it thats Boyince Compincater u Know what i mean .
and rays right u gotta flick it

 

I think it would be funny that after the jump you find yourself under the canopy and you go "yeah, it worked!!!" Then stitch by stitch the harness comes apart, really slowly, and you just hope it will hold until landing...that would be a decent rush

It would be cool if a container manufacture would enter willing-full customers on a bounce bingo. They'd use safety thread to put the harness together instead of 5 cord. Let's say 1 in 100 harnesses is built that way. The customers cannot tell the difference because of the mud-flap covering the MLW stitching but they'd know about the 1/100.

I bet Maggot would enter in such a game

Chances something is going to happen (1/100) are still less than people jumping off cliffs with 20 jumps or so

Any plans to sell these rigs?

.

yes the rigs are fot sale ill jst chain nick to a sewing machine and make him work for jumps and food.
they are 500 bucks each. send cash only.I also have other goodies for sale. and all rigs come RSL equipted

Not only the RSL is standard, the rigs are all Cypres ready at no additional costs. The cypres operating unit can be mounted on the left mud flap kinda like the FXC so in one shot you can see if the cypres is on and if the RSL is hooked in right, all for simplicity and safety at the exit point.

We also offer gore-tex cypres pouches for those jumping rounds or subscribing to the "You dry faster than you heal"...unless you can't swim like Maggot.

Other goodies include carbon fiber mud flaps for tree landings (a must in my case), biodegradable hardware, for those "tree huggers", spring loaded PC with stainless steel rip cord cable and soft housing, hard riser inserts for spinning malfunctions, and also hooks for a tersh mounted on the leg-strap.

All again at no additional costs.

The Nitro Rigging "Shit Happens" rig will be available to the public in the near future for an introductory price of 5000 USD plus 2000 USD for shipping and handling. PA residents must add applicable sale tax.

The rigs are tax deducted because profits will go through the "Maggot Foundation of Human Rights".

OK Nitro,

Cut to the important part:

Show us the pin cover open, with pins, loops and bridle present.

Also a few pics with the container open would be nice.

Thanks dude.

How about a blow job?

You're lucky I'm a nice guy.

I think its missing a floatation device
and lights for night jumps

Thanks Maggot,

That's a great idea! You know what, you can be my R&D!

yah but where does the reserve go?

There doesn't seem to be a stiffener in the pin cover flap. I may have misunderstood Tom's review on the Odyssey. In the review Tom speaks of the lack of stiffener in the pin cover flap making the rig unsafe for delays exceeding 6 seconds. Just need some clarity on that.

"The Odyssey FX pin cover flap is the primary culprit. Since the flap has no stiffener, it tends to pop open when exposed to high speed airflow. Once this has occurred, the pins can easily be extracted by bridle flap (the bridle between the pins is longer than the pin spacing--as it should be--and the extra length of bridle tends to flap when exposed to the airstream)."

Also is there a reason for configuring the closure left over right (as opposed to right over left with the gargoyle where the bridle comes out on the lhs) or is it really not important?

Looks pretty good otherwise.

poc

Hey Pat.


I’m still at work, but when I get home I will take and post pics of my Odyssey FX, as they do have stiffeners in the cover flap and the way they deal with the bridle is really very neat.

That said, mine were made last year and I have not done more than a 6.5 on them, but I know many using them terminal and terminal with aerials with no issues.

They have a specially shaped stiffener in the cover flap that allows for easy bridle extraction still, even at low airspeed and in a head high position.

From my experience the FX is a really nice rig, but what do I know, I only have 211 jumps on my two.

Cya
Sam

I'll let Tree answer that in details because that is his design.

However the pin flap is pretty stiff without the use of hard plastic. The two layers sandwich type 12 webbing.

Also, where the pin flap tucks in, there is a lexan stiffener that runs for the whole length of the side flap (that's the right one by the way).

Honestly I cannot see how the pin flap can come open, it's a pretty solid design that also looks good.

As for the closure it's always Right and then Left.

The bridle is routed to the right so by closing left and then right you could cause a snagging point...not a great scenario 2 sec from impact!

Be sure to check the date on that, too. I've got no idea what recent production Odyssey's like Sams are like.


My Odyssey FX had real problems staying closed at high airspeeds. I have no idea about the rig discussed in this thread, or about (much) newer version of the Odyssey FX.

Hey Tom,
The issue with the flap staying closed was fixed a few years ago, shortly after you had expressed concerns with it. I worked closely with Colin on fixing this problem. They work fine to terminal, even with aerials. There was even some people who thought that it was too stiff for low stuff, but I have taken it to both extremes, and it works great.

From the pics, it seems that Tree has copied the FX's closing flap. If it is the same, he will need to stiffen it up. The problem happens when you're in a good track. Air flowing over the rig, gets in and under the flap and pops it open.

Hey Sam, good to hear from you. I see you're a regular at this forum. You showed me your new rig before you left and it is pretty neat. Tom, i had read your review a very long time ago indeed and just remembered the cover flap thing. i went back to it with regard to this particular rig. In other words, I am not denying the Odyssey has evolved, probably even to the point where it is at least on par with the Gargoyle (after seeing Sam and Mick's new rigs).
Nicknitro, understood about the cover flap but still don't understand the snaging point problem. The Gargoyle is a similar type of design but closes right over left, you just can't close it the other way. I am looking at her now but I just can't see where the bridle could get snagged. I also take the bridle out of the container through the middle as opposed to the top to the first pin. Looking at the pic of yours, i can't see the snag point either. Bah it's late so maybe it will occur to me when i've had some sleep.
Sam, next time around don't come in summer but rather at this time. It's been real good lately (then again it was a real crap summer).
Thanks for the replies all.
poc

Very interesting.

Hey Lonnie, is there anybody in BC with a recent FX that I can get in touch with? I'd like to take a look at one. And do you guys have a pricelist? I happen to be shopping around for a container (since my previous one is stuck on a wall) and it would save me some tax- or import-dollars if I could order Canadian. Plus, it never hurts to support my fatherland economically.

Are you certain of this?

I took few pics.

You can see that the flap goes in quite a bit and again it ain't that soft; one layer of thick ballistic nylon, one of parapack, and one of type 12 webbing.

You can also see the possible snagging point I mentioned.

By the way I personally know of one incident of a PC in tow in skydiving because a container was closed left-right causing the sharp snag point. Unlikely anything is going to happen if you close that way but last time I checked I only had one tarp on by back while BASE

Oh,

The Gargoyle last I checked closes left then right.

The Gargoyle last I checked closes left then right.

mmmmhja, right over left.
You guys got me worried so i went to the baserigs website. It closes right over left and the bridle tucks under the left flap. Now, does that mean i have an inbuilt defect? The gromet seems low enough not to tuck it the way you have shown in the pics under the right flap. Thanks for the pics though, pretty helpful. Ok going to jump my favorite 'e' now but this thread has left me a little worried.
later
poc

OK, here's my pics

the one where I bend the cover flap shows the shape of the stiffener inside, as I only bend back the unstiffened part

there's a tab sewn around the bridle slack between the pins and this gets tucked into a little pocket between the pins

my loops are long in these pics

ok, it was too windy to jump off the cliff.
my buddy was still busy packing when i got to his house. Tom i started second guessing myself after your post but now i am absolutely certain you can't close the Gargoyle left over right. There's just no way on earth unless they build them differently for us South Africans, you know being in the southern hemisphere and driving on the left hand side and all...
The Gargoyle is an unbelievable piece of equipment. The attention to detail is amazing and this is consistent on all 6 containers i have seen so far. There's just no cutting corners. And that's leading to the only bit of criticism i would have on it is the delivery time. Two people I know waited almost 6 months for their containers to arrive. Then again, that's probably 'cos the whole world wants one. Well there's that and the fact that their pc's are real crap. I had wanted one for a long time and scored a luck with a friend who traded one with less than 10 jumps on it.
I still have a Perigee Pro, and although it still looks beautiful when packed after 150 jumps or so, there are still a few twitches. For example the pin cover flap is hot knived at the top and bottom leaving two nice pieces of burnt nylon right next to the bridle. I have seen this on the french zak as well. Also the back straps are connected within the lift web as opposed to wrapping around the lift web. All these things that cut production time simply don't occur with the Gargoyle.
Any way, this is turning into a personal gear review and i am veering completely off the original subject.
Nicknitro, your rig looks awesome dude and with my experience (158 jumps), i am not in a position to give any rigging advice. I am sorry if i seemed to be criticising, just the idea of a stiffener in the pin cover flap makes total sense to me.
later
poc

Ehhh, care to elaborate just a bit please?

Well, first when you get them, the mesh is so stiff you can't even stow a 42. Then after some time the msh goes all floppy.
Then the mesh used on their av's doesn't seem like it would have any effect at all, it's pretty much like using f111.
I did 99 jumps with an av 42 from Asylum and just replaced it on principle because it was just about in the same condition as when i bought it.

 

There is a misunderstanding. In that statement I was talking about the morpheus pc's. The mesh on the apex is way to dense, or thin and added to that is the placement of a morpheus logo on the apex. to me it just wouldn't work, although this is an opinion and i havn't seen anyone jump a morpheus av yet.

As for the 99 jumps with the Asylum av, I changed it for another Asylum 42 av simply because i wouldn't do more than 100 jumps with any given pc. The pc was still in excellent condition and i intend to keep buying pc's from Asylum.

 

Just go to baserigs.com there is a pic of the av they sell

Here's a pic for you.

That gripper is heavy-ish cordura, the mesh is like that used on small mesh sliders.

 
Actually, "left then right" is same as the "right over left" cos:
When you are closing left side flap, then right side flap what you are getting is that you vill end with right side flap over left side flap.
You guys speaking abouth sam thing.

UUUUUh!
No the sam thing is 980, he is also South African but was talking about the Odyssey.
I was just saying from the beginning that the gargoyle closes right over left and nicknitro pointed out that it 's first the left flap and then the right.
But thanks for following the posts and pointing this out to us, your contribution was real helpful.
poc

ahh yes... the bloody car crash rig.... see you round..

I have to disagree with you about the "backstraps" construction between the two containers. As a master rigger who changes harness sizes ALOT, the wraparound/ Javelin style lateral part of the harness is in my opinion about the easiest to construct. There is way more work in the Perigee style lateral,I believe to the end of making the bottom of the container more "snagproof". As for strength, some skydiving rigs used to have a 500 lb. buckle to adjust harness size at this part of the harness.If your harness fits properly, you should never even pop a stitch regardless of what type harness you have.

Point taken.
The Gargoyle does have a nice corner at the bottom for the bridle to get stuck in.
It was Piers, a s.a. master rigger who died in a plane crash in Florida who told me this. His opinion was that the wraparound was stronger, but that it took longer to build. Some skydiving gear manufacturers took shortcuts by hotkniving the webbing instead of wrapping it. On the wraparound you then have 2 layers of type 7 and 2 layers of type 8. The perigee seems to have a single layer of type 8 going to the back, the cordura and then the 2 layers of type 8 from the lift web. I have done a lot of packing but i am nowhere near pretending to be as knowledgeable as a master rigger. From this info i can't help thinking that the wraparound not only takes longer because of the thikness of material involved but also seems stronger. Does this make sense or am i completely losing the plot?

 

Ultimately, the wraparound is stronger. But if you broke either one you would have bigger problems, like straining yourself through the harness. The front of a harness is called a "Main lift web" for a reason, most of the load is there. The strength of most hardware is 2500 lb. A single ply of ty8 web is 4000lb.vs ty7 at 6000 lb. Thickness of material really has nothing to do with construction time in the big picture, my harness machine will sew my hand to the harness just as fast if I'm not careful. I've seen broken stitching on both types from poor fitting harness', so point loading is a bigger issue than type of construction.

Thanks

I've seen test PC's that actually used "F-111" (0-3 cfm) as the vent material. The idea was to give the same flow through properties (with a larger vent) but faster inflation/less hesitation than a higher flow vent.

well we could drag both types behind a car and see who's arm gets ripped off first with the least wobble.

When you're isolated like we are in s.a. (with regard to base) you tend to build up a few preconcepts. Our knowledge base becomes inbred and we need some external input once in a whiie. It's good to get a bit of a wake up to blow those things away.