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As is now clear (not that it ever wasn't) a restrictive device of any sort left around your pilot chute can lead to a nasty end.

However, maybe it might be a good time for us all to look at other techniques we use during our packing.

I know there are jumpers out there (friends) who tie all their lines together in the centre during their packing - above the tailgate. It seems to me that this too could easily be forgotten and if left there would result in a streamer. I understand the need to keep the lines centred to prevent one escaping over the stabilisers and the resultant line over malfunction. However, i'd take the line over as opposed to the streamer any day of the week, so why risk the latter to prevent the far less likely to be fatal former?

Counting tools is a good way of preventing forgetting such devices but it isn't infallible. How many of us carry more than one pull up when we're out on a trip, and what if you see someone elses pull up and assume it's yours. How many times have you lent someone a spare pullup? When they finish with it they throw it over and say thanks. Could you mistake that for the one holding all your lines together?

No matter how thorough we think we are, we all get tired and make mistakes. A pull up left on your lines could be a very costly one.

ian

I always use exactly the same pull up cord for that kind of thing (actually, I've recently switched to using a clamp, since it's harder to forget it in there). I mean _exactly_ the same physical pull up cord. If you stuck it in a bag of pull up cords, I'd be able to identify it. I've had people "borrow" it while I was packing, and I've ended up running around trying to find it, and not closing until I had it. I use that same pull up cord (again, exactly the same one) to close my top pin, so if it's missing when I close, I start looking for it.

I had a friend who used to use a pull up cord to pack his PC (he died in a wall strike that was not related to this practice). He always used the same pull up cord, and he'd tie it around his MLW when he finished packing. Before exit, he'd look down, and if the pull up cord wasn't there, he wouldn't jump (no kidding, I once saw him back off because he didn't have the pull up cord, even though we checked his PC and it was fine--it turned out the pullup cord was in the trunk of the car).

There is no reason to not invest the time to learn to pack your chute or pilot chute without such tools, particularly the pilot chute. The same philosophy holds for reserves.

> I know there are jumpers out there (friends) who tie all their lines together in the centre during their packing - above the tailgate.
I did it; I was used to use a pull up cord (just below the lower part of cloth) to keep all th elines together.
I stopped doing it when I forgot it (lesson learned: NEVER finish to pack at 2:00 am, too tired to notice anything wrong), I SLed a B, was EXTREMELY lucky to walk away with it on my feet and parachute with no damage (10%: skill; 90%: luck).
That event slowed down a little bit my BASE jumping; in the meanwhile I discovered a web site where there were reserve packing instructions written and pictured by a white haired old chap who was using the freebag bridle to hold the reserve lines all together in the middle.
So I took it and adapted it to BASE parachutes: from that day/event on I stopped using pullup cords to keep the lines in the center, rather I use the bridle to keep the lines all together in the middle.
I just do a loop and a knot with the bridle just few cm's/inches below the PC (so there is plenty of bridle slack to work with and to be free to pack the parachute and so on), and, about at the end of packing, it's simply IMPOSSIBLE to leave the bridle knotted up there: sooner or later you have got to pack or to store your PC
Just my 0.02€

I originally learned to pack without tools.

I now use tools on the vast majority of my pack jobs because:

a) They make it easier
b) They make it faster
c) They allow me to pack under a wider range of conditions


Basically, they allow me to get better results for the amount of effort I put in, in terms of both efficiency and quality. The same is, in my experience, vastly more true for beginners, since they are already wrestling with the mental steps of the pack job itself, and don't really need to add in a physical wrestling match with the canopy.

Tools are what set us apart from the animals.

a)I think using other than a pull up cord means more work
b)I dont need my pack jobs to be faster at this point i pack in 15-30 mins despire on the place and conditions were i pack
c) i agree that tools allows you to pack while its windy,however i rather use weights that clamps

I also use the exacte same pull up cord. i tie it to the 3 ring system to hold my risers together while packing(allowing a straight pull) its imposible to wear the harness as its tied there,the same pull up cord is used to close the harness,and the same pull up cord is tied to my lamp which i always chek before i jump..

Clambs used at the same place can wear out the fabrice


Tools is a learning stage from beeing an anmal

A few years ago I PCA'd a guy who left his pull-up cord tied around the top of his lines. Needless to say he didn't get a full canopy and streamered into the ground at the base of the 270ft "A". Luckily he had enough canopy and soft ground to survive relatively unhurt. I thought he packed it slider up as I watched it sniveling. Talk about scary!

I while back I was experimenting with weights to help with packing and I packed a 2lb weight into my rig. It was one of those long thin ones and I had used it to help with the long folds. I got a phone call and forgot about it. As I finished packing I noticed the canopy just didn't quite fit correctly but closed the rig up anyway. About an hour later I was going over the packing process in my head and an alarm went off....WTF!?!?!... how could I have been so careless?? Did I actually do that? Only one way to be sure and that was to unpack. Guess what? I was that stupid and I did pack a weight into my rig.
Never again!
Packing has become so autonomous that when a new thing is added it can easily be forgotten until it is commited it to memory.
Using no tools is good.
Counting the tools you do use is good too!

stay safe
Jason
570

I can pack it faster and just as neat without the clamps as with the clamps. I once left a clamp above my A line group for a low building packjob. While counting my tools, I realized I was missing a clamp, reached into my packjob and removed it!

The thought of leaving a tool on a packjob is a nightmare. Having to carry a bunch of tools with you while field packing is just too much of a hassle.

my god!!
Tom, all this story you wrote above is excelent example how to complicate your life! One of the better ways to stay calm on the exit is to forget about the tools and learn to pack tool free!!
I offten seeing people fighting with the packing and with the tool as well

Personaly I never even close my rig w the same pull up cord-can't find it after one packing

I often don't.

I've learned many different pack jobs. I am competent in packing without tools, and have done so many times, for a variety of objects, including buildings.

Just because I prefer to use tools doesn't mean that I am unable to pack without them.

ill second that...

not that anyone cares what i think, but since tools were mentioned, i know a few of them so i figured i'd restate my opinion again.

i wholeheartedly agree with jason. i think packing clamps are a great idea, especially if they actually work for you, and they're harder to miss in a packjob. for me, i don't feel packing is technical enough to require it. you can have the perfect packjob and still get a 180 and end up in an office window. i speculate that body position and wind will have a much higher persuasion on heading performance. but if clamps help you pack, then again, that is great. i've done some absolutely horrible looking packjobs that have actually scared people to death, and they opened on heading, but that really doesn't mean anything.
i guess what i'm trying to say is, even the count your tools rule would lose me, and it would be a serious hassle for me to remember how many and where i put them while trying to remain unseen in the dark. plus, i'm too stubborn to alter between different packing methods.
ok, just ignore all of this.

avenfoto, are you trying to bamboozle us with that second crap? i don't know what that means??

Fellatio is what sets us apart from the animals. You'd hope.

Bonobos (Pan Paniscus) know both tools and fellatio.

You know Skin. You'd Hope that to be the truth but sadly not so.
Actually I witnessed two Orangutan in the Zoo. The large male Orangutan pulling the smaller females Head down on the O'l Flag Pole. I think I actually saw an Orangutan smile that day.
Yes Skin. Breeding is such an Ugly thing.
.

I use a clamp for keeping the lines together. In later stage of packing I use the same clamp in other purpose. That's how it will not be forgotten inside the packjob.
Vesa

This isn't a criticism of Tom's techniques. I just think the next generations should be taught to avoid certain packing techniques. This pilot chute packing tool technique has cost at least one life already. I feel strongly enough about it that I suggest it be posted as a directive at the top of this forum, much in the same way the black rubber band warning was posted.

Couldn't agree more. Also - if you can't cleanly pack a pilot chute or hell, even a canopy, without the assistance of external support devices, perhaps you shouldn't be hucking yourself off of objects where packing is arguably half the battle...

  
What ever happened to the KISS theory?

Keep
It
Simple
Stupid

Adding steps only complicates a simple procedure

I use TWO little clamps for the line groups, one for each line group. Effect: both line groups are neatly separated. I clamp one clamp into the other and slide them up to the top of the lines, so when I do the first stow into the rubber band I cannot forget them. Even if they slide down, they could not be forgotten as the pouch would not close with 2 clamps in it (and, being a rigger, I also always count my tools after finishing).

On my first trip to the potato state, I packed without tools because the guy on the VHS tape I learned from didn't use them.

Afterwards I switched to using six big clamps and one small one. Now I like eight big clamps and three small ones. Using the tools makes for a slightly neater pack job, slightly faster pack job, slightly less work, and a LOT less hassle packing outside when it gets a little windy.

I use a big clamp to hold the lines together (it won't fit in the tail pocket) during the pack job and on my pilot chute while I'm stuffing it in the spandex pouch. There's no way it would fit in the tail pocket and would probably come off like a tail gate if it did. There's no way not to notice a 6" orange clamp stuck to the pilot chute.

If you die with a pull-up cord around your pilotchute, it's not because you used a restrictive device during packing, it's because you didn't treat the sport with the paranoia it requires.

I'm drunk so don't take this to serious... but I don't agree with you.
You don't know why it happend. It could have 1000 reasons that he forgot to take of the pull up cord. Unfortunatly we will never know why he did not do this... It's not fair to say something because you don't know all the details. Erros can happen and do happen everywhere. Unfortunatly they often lead to death in our sport...

And how many of those 1000 make a person less stupid for dying because of it?

I thought long and hard to find a nice way to say this. I know I'm not making myself popular with this opinion, but I'll take my chances. A pilotchute is the freakin' difference between life and death. If you can't take care of it, expect shit to happen.

For the record, I don't discriminate. My closest BASE friends have promised to piss on my grave should I die on a BASE jump. There is no such thing as a freak accident; we're all in control of our own destiny. At least give me credit for my own actions, however irresponsible or stupid they may have been.

Maybe someone else more versed in this can say it better, but in quality engineering, they look at the frequency that something can or does fall out of spec during a process, and determine that if such things do occur, the process must be tightened up until there is no variation. Sorting is not a solution....

So, we know two deaths have occurred. We have heard of other situations where people have reopened their rigs to find a restrictive device inside....

A quality engineer would likely say to eliminate the problem, eliminate the tools....

While packing the rig yesterday, and subsequently stowing the PC - I am still amazed at WHY would anybody feel a restrictive aid is a necessity. I don't have that many jumps, but most of them have been with a 46 or 42 stowed (at least till exit point), a few with a 38 - and I have never felt the need to restrict the PC prior to putting it in the BOC - in fact, seeing a few people do it (clamps only) - it felt like an unnecessary overkill. Though using large clamps while stuffing the PC in would make it absolutely Darwinian fate if one goes in with it. ( in other words forgetting a LARGE clamp is not something anybody with an ounce of common sense should do)

not judging, just venting, it's a shame to loose another person ...

Tools can make it neater. And unless you have a sorcerer,
i think we all need to pack a canopy we are sure will perform.
I agree w/using tools that are impossible to miss. ie: Bridle to tie the lines in the center during packing and my favorite, The drawstring from my stuff sack helps me form my pud while packing the PC. Now my exit point paranoia involves my bridle to canopy attachment and wether or not i remembered the larkshead after the last roll over.

I agree. I have yet to use a 'tool' to pack my pc. Nothing against those who do/have, but i see no reason to use a tool. I can make (show) a nice, clean, big grab out of a 42, 46, and 48 (actually I dont stow a 48 so...). And a handle (ex or internal) on a 38 or less, there is no need. I guess I just dont get it.

dude show some respect, i would say the same in case you died on your 11th BASEjump which i rember were a skiBASE...

I think its wrong judging people like that. as people has said there can be loads of reassons why this happened all we can agree is that it shouldnt have happened..
But calling the person or any person stupied as they has died is just not showing any respect for the person.

I do agree its a stupied mistake but dont judge a person you dont know.

Yes.

You people keep repeating how much respect you have for this guy's parents yet you cant refrain from summing up every goddamn thing he did wrong in the past, dragging in the mentor etc. All in the name of education and future reference...

Who are you kidding?

And so you should have...

i think you misunderstood what i meant..

I wouldnt allow any to call you stupied from that,in case you died ofcourse..Its called respect to the dead..
That i agree it were a stupied mistake Paul did also i agree that your 11.th jump also were silly but i respect you to make the choice your self. in case it went wrong i wouldnt call you stupied but deafently would say that it shouldnt have happened as i say about Pauls Accsident.

I will disrespect the hell out of each and every one of my brothers on the List if doing so will keep any others from joining them.

I will disrespect the hell out of each and every one of my brothers on the List if doing so will keep any others from joining them.

Edit. you know what...nevermind. I really have no business telling you people what to do. If you ask me...it's no longer about saving lives, but about having your opinions heard. Saving lives could have been done in 3 posts. But I realize I'm doing just what I'm accusing (well...that's a bit harsh but still) some of you of, so my apologies and I'll keep the rest to myself.

I actually don't, since I believe we have vastly different opinions on this matter.

I also think that there is a difference between making a rigging error of this magnitude or being overconfident in a particular skillset. The former is a mechanical process that can be executed perfectly if given proper diligence. The latter has a knack to it. Few people will ever be forced to pack a pilotchute in split seconds. Many people will some day be forced to avoid an object strike in the same time.

I don't have more respect for a dead person than I did during the last moments he or she was alive, save to avoid hurting other people's feelings. But this is a BASE forum after all.

I won't disagree with you, but there is more to it than that. Don't forget the impact a BASE fatality can have. I don't mean on family and friends, because it's blatantly obvious any incident causes tremendous amounts of pain. Judgement belongs to family and friends in this case.

The impact I am talking about is the impact to the sport and people's perception of it. I wouldn't be surprised if several UK jumpers have to go through more painful discussions with loved ones to explain why yet another BASE jumper has died. Have you told your parents you want to BASE jump Tenshi? Believe me, these are difficult conversations.

The list of problems that can kill in BASE is long and not every item on the list is a checkbox. But those that are ought to be avoided at all cost. If I do some day die on a BASE jump, it'll be my fault and responsibility regardless of what caused it. But please, I hope it wasn't because I forgot to attach my bridle to my canopy, because I forgot to rig up my three rings correctly, or because I forgot to do up my chest-strap.

Blue skies, black death...

You and Faber are so close and so far apart that it's funny.

Following a recent fatality at an object I can see from my house I planned to execute the practice Jaap requests on his demise. I didn't know the cause of the fatality, only the identity of the fatality and his mentor, neither of which came as any surprise. I was very angry and disappointed.

When it came to it, I was standing on that big old blood stain and I was overwhelmed by the sense of loss of a fellow jumper, pure and simple. The bottle of beer his mates left him was still there, in full view. The local residents there would normally steal anything not bolted down.

One of my most valued friends uses a "restrictive device during packing". I have given him shit from every angle for a long time over it. He is a competent packer and an experienced jumper. We reached a truce on the subject a long time ago: I won't hassle him any more about it, but I have his full permission to call him all the names under the sun on the internet and in private if he goes in due to it.

And I will. If that wanker goes in like that, I will take a dump on his spot.

I agonised before posting all the shortcomings (http://www.dropzone.com/...post=2143130#2143130) (that I knew of) of fatality #94. My only concern was his family: they have no need to learn of his bad decision making.

I spoke to my wife and best friend of 15yrs and she said that in the event of my death, she would want my fatality discussed in absolute and complete detail. Maybe my situation is unique in that she's known me since I was a teenager and is under no illusion as to what kind of fuckwittery I am capable of on rare occasion, but she stressed that her feelings on this matter must not be spared.

I dont ask you to change your mind.But as you i also heard but never meet the guy. I also has my oppinions about his rigging erro and his approach to the sports but this dosnt mean that i feel the need on dissing him,his family or freinds on the internet.Thouse left behind dont need to hear your oppinion like that,In fact Pauls family has taken this better than many familyes has done.. their only request durring Pauls death were that we should learn and dont dublicate erros,have fun while jumping and take care of each other.. all you did were telling somthing that dont change anything,besides hurting peoples feelings.

So calling dead people stupied is going to help others?
sorry dude i cant see your point,if your oppinion is that people making mistakes and dying from them no matter how bad a rigging erro or risk mannegement they did then i think you should reconsider what BASE stands for..
You for all i thourght understanded that BASE aint about judging people but about fredom and happy memoryes.That all of us needs to make dessisions and either live or die whith thouse..
You and i can have oppinions about an incedent but cant tell why the person made his or her dessision..

I might go in later tonite on a solo i probaly dont,but many people will think if it happens that i were careless going out solo.You still gonna stand up and call me stupied then? If so i might need to tell my parents who i think would post here asking for help to understand...

As said we all do our dessisions.You and i need to respect people to that.that we think it might wasnt the best idea we can say off public,or dissuss how we can avoid stuff like that in the furture..

fuckwittery

Hey! That's a cool word! can I start using that?

BASE is about the human desire to fly and following through with it. The rest is up to you.

Don't make your equipment fail by a pointless error and chances are, there are a lot more memories to be had.

That's not judging. That's common sense.

but dissing the deads is pointless.

I do agree it were a stupied mistake,but i dont see the reasson to call most of our fallen brothers and sisters for stupied. most of them werent they just eiter made a stupied mistake or had a bad day.

btw.
i has no desire to learn to fly,i rather get the close groundrush

Did Chad tell ya that i made a vid of our trip?
Theres a huge place were you were arround.
Sadly Chad didnt tell if i could make copyes of it yet so i cant ship you oneWill do so soon as he has told what that need to be reedited etc.