Basejumper.com - archive

I was on top of an object in the city in which i live and I saw this Official BASE site," Graffity"now why would some one do that doesn't that burn the site. I'm not to up on the hole edicate thing so maybe someone could fill me in. But none the less the jump was mad crazy and when I landed these kids, were like did you just jump off that --- and i said hells yah. they said your crazy. like I've never heard that.

Glad ya had a good jump Magot. And yes, Grafitti at the exit point is not proper Base etiquette, and could potenially hurt/burn the site. But hey, I'm sort-of-guilty of leaving stickers at most of the exit points that I come across. So maybe I'm not the best person to comment on something like that.

I am pretty sure Gardner did not include tagging sites with stickers in his training. Hope you are not decorating any of the ATL sites I play on.

Leaving stickers at an exit is same way uncool as taging it with a graffiti. Why would you do this? The only consequence is that the exit gets unnecessary attention.
It’s kind of childish doing this.

That is a sure way NOT to get intived to jump other folks objects!

Spray painting " Official Base Site " at the exit point, and sticking a small little sticker are two way different things. Nobody outside of the community knows what it is, let alone if they even see it. Official Base site all over the wall is just a little bit more obvious. I've only tagged objects that have a very low chance of anyone thats not a jumper being up there. And I haven't and wouldn't tag any objects that weren't in my area, or local to my crew. I'm one of the last people that would purposely burn an object. But if I want to tag one of my local objects with a Base sticker, then I will. I'm sorry if that makes you mad, or goes against your "ethics" or "etiquette" of Base Jumping Ray, but Base is what it is, and a little sticker doesn't go against mine.

What type of 'A' would that be then...?
If you can get up there....surely thats because its designed for people TO go up there....

Not provoking......just curious and asking

>>>I've only tagged objects that have a very low chance of anyone thats not a jumper being up there
~~um...in my opinion that is worse, if the exit point was highly trafficked a little sticker would mean less.Because in this case the only other people likely to be up there are more likely to notice that someone else has been there and care.
~J

....what ever happened to leave no trace?

what was it??

take only photographs...
leave only footprints...

i like the way that sounds.

Tagging BASE sites, whether they are "yours" or mine, is wrong.

Leave no trace? Then everyone thats made a base video is guilty of not only leaving a trace, but providing video proof that they were there and jumped.


It was an "A" that gets day blazed like every damn week, so I highly doubt the sticker is going to burn that site. And I put the sticker right next to the other BASE sticker that was already there.um...in my opinion that is worse, if the exit point was highly trafficked a little sticker would mean less.Because in this case the only other people likely to be up there are more likely to notice that someone else has been there and care.

just a thought...


often what allows an A to be jumped without ramifications is the consent of the landowner, not the tower owner. i'm sure if the actual owners of the A were aware of trespassers, they would be more inclined to tighten up it's security. minimizing evidence of traffic other than by the technicians could prove to help keep an object open.

 

 

That makes it OK...? I'm confused...

Another question......again, not out of any other reason than I dont understand.....you do what you want to do....

Why do you feel a need to put a sticker on there, whats its purpose and/or the purpose for doing it...?

Dont get me wrong....not flaming you....just asking...

Colin, I see and understand your point. But what my point is, is that 99.9% of the time its not the sticker that burns the object, it's all of the other things involved with getting to the exit point, then making the jump, then getting away. For an example:

one simple question: why do you feel the need to put a sticker up on the exit point of an object you jump like a skydiver does in the aircraft they jump?




seriously though, why? what are you trying to achieve? what goes through your mind as you place that sticker on the rail?


I call troll.............

this is nuts

It's interesting to see someone who's avatar is the ABP logo making this argument.

I guess that the ABP's "Responsible Use" includes tagging exit points? I'll be sure to slap an ABP sticker over the survey marker on the big stone, the next time I'm there.

I suggest you call these folks for a little remedial training.

It's not just my ethics, or my etiquette, or even BASE ethics or BASE etiquette. It's general wilderness ethics, and wilderness etiquette. Viewed in a larger context, it's actually basic human etiquette.

You're wrong.

It's the attitude that burns the object.

The same attitude that says "I'll damn well put a sticker on it if I please."

The same attitude that says "I'll damn well drive a truck down this trail if I please."

The same attitude that says "I'll damn well cut down this tree that's in the way if I please."

The same attitude that says "I'll damn well do whatever I please."

We haven't learned much in the last 25 years, have we?

Well, every plane that I've ever jumped out of, I've put a sticker on the door for good luck. And so in that habit, ( whether its good/bad ), when I started Base jumping, I put a sticker on the exit point of everything that I jumped off of. Over the last 1 year that I've grown in the sport, I've gone back and taken some of them down, for the only reason of " not leaving a trace ". But now, through more time in the sport, I'm really failing to see how it realistically affects an object. Hypothetically it could burn the object, maybe, like colin was saying, but realistically, Its probably not going to due a thing.

Just to clarify: you were putting BASE stickers all over before you ever made a BASE jump?

That would be sweet. When I'm there this summer, I"ll put a "No NPS" sticker right next to yours. And I plan on jumping with my ABP t-shirt on, and if I get caught at the bottom, I'll give them my ABP membership card when asked for I.D.

 

What does the maker of the sticker think of the practice of tagging jump sites?

Graffiti, like litter, sucks.

Alright, I'm understanding a little better now the point you guys are trying to make. ITS JUST NOT COOL. I'm sorry. No more stickers.

All,

I've removed the name of the sticker maker (as well as, in one place, a competing sticker company) from this thread, at the request of that manufacturer.

nuff said........

Kudos to you .....
With all the negative vibes people get for doing the slightest thing wrong in this discipline.....
If no one else is gonna say it...I will....I think changing your point of view like that deserves a pat on the back ( or a sticker.... )
No really....good for you.

The last thing I meant to do, was start an arguement, or piss anyone off. In fact, I only originally posted to compelment Magot on the Jump. Damn, shit turned fast on me didn't it.

Are you really that surprised on the reaction of putting stickers on exit points????????????



if so, fuck / bugger / shit / cunt , we have no chance............

Should be a lesson learned then. Welcome to BASE.

Chris winds look good tonight. could you fdex me some of those stikers. there's just so many "B"s waiting for me tonight and not enuff stikers. JUST KIDDING ABOUT THE STIKERS. god i wish i could spell.

Sounds like best practise has be established/reminded here.

But a Leave No Trace Bumper Sticker http://www.lnt.org/membership/index.html would be a nice touch- as long as its used on the place intended!

Would be better having one of those on your car turning up to a NP than Skydiving/Base ones..

Hey Chris, I got a gold star for the back of your helmet! We have ALL done stuff that with hindsight, wasn't such a cool idea. My opinion is stickers belong on lunchboxes and bindercovers,not where people that cannot appreciate them can see them.I do know of an "A" that has a "Gambler Would Huck It! " sticker that you can only see after exit. That site was "burned" by some other stupid trick...

Maggot, I know how you can fight this highly unethical behavior. Paint big "Derka Derka Mohamud Jehad" graffity over it.

if someone needs a "sign for good luck", he should keep this to himself.
place a sticker on your helmet or your shoes and you have it with you on every exit....

to the argument with base-vids:
they are inside of the cams and on the tapes, not at the exit or on the way to them.

me personally, I do not like stickers or tags, neither in aircrafts nor at exit points.
if you have the strenght in your mind, you will not need visible signs (for others) on the outside.

of course is a sticker different to a large tag, but the main reason behind both leads to the same effect.
someone not involved or involved in a way we all are not interested in, is able to see your personal "signs".

a better way to preach for good luck would be, take some garbage left by others with you on the way down.
leave the site in a better way than you´ve found it.
and "better" here means: cleaner.

just my point of view.

I like this one, GREAT POINT!

You are welcome to our sites anytime bro!
Later
Blair

That's a nugget for sure.

> what ever happened to leave no trace?
Uhhmmm... ...fucked up, maybe?

couldn't agree more. take your stickers and shove them into your ass yo. said in a nice tone (-:

Why don't we let this thread die...
I see no point in going on about stickers...

Building/property manager : "Hey John, i was on top of our 'east lake' property and i was noticing little stickers that say BASE on them on one of the corners. would you have any idea who is putting them there?"

worker: "No, i have no idea who would put them there..."

manager guy: "well, if you and i dont know, maybe someone is getting up there that we dont need there. we should be more careful with property security."

(all names and placed are fictional in this short story)

KEEP IT CLEAN! NOBODY ELSE NEEDS TO KNOW WE GO THERE!

. . .and a bit of wake turbulence.

pope

my mommy used to give me stickers when i was a little baby...i stuck them everywhere and then got an ass whupping for it...

read into that what you will

how about take only altitude leave only wake turbulence...

Manager Guy: Let's call the cops and see if they can figure it out.

Cop: Well, they have left me this nice clue. I'm going to dig around on the internet and see what it means.

Cop: Hey, look at this. It turns out that's a logo from these weirdo's called "BASE Jumpers" who like to parachute off buildings. I'd say you've got a BASE jumper infestation. Better call an exterminator. If you set up video cameras we can get some evidence to go after them next time you see them. And they're already giving us a trail to follow. They're no better than gang members using graffiti to mark their turf. Let's get 'em!

Manager Guy: Wow, I never heard of this "BASE" stuff before. We'll definitely tighten things up around here and see if we can nail those guys.

Gee Tom, with writing skills like those you could be a sit-com writer, maybe even the star!!

(insert laugh track here)

(edit for spelling)

John: Sir, I have been moitoring the new CCTV on the roof and you will never guess what I saw!

Manager Guy: What?

John: I saw you bonking that pretty young thing from Admin!

Manager guy: Shit!!!! Who'se stupid idea was the CCTV anyway???????

you guy's are way to smart for your own good. And Cops are lazy useless moron's . this was posted from NYC. the other day I lost all respect for the police when I saw man
freaking out,,. he was out of his mind on meth or something like that. I ran to a cop and told him this.Now mind u was on the corner or park ave. Do u know what the cop did? He walked the other way. all "most cop's" care about is their pension. so don't go giving them credit until they earn it.

Perhaps you should read the last sub from the 'offender' and cut him slack .....

Jeez with this and another thread I'm following on a breach of ethics......I understand the frustration and concern....but frankly the response is just as childish and overdone....

No disrespect , intended...but I expected a more mature attitude from the community in these matters, once someone has accepted what they did was wrong.

Understand that this thread isn't just about the original guy who posted about tagging sites with stickers. It will still be here in a year, when a different new jumper runs across it in the archives, and will (hopefully) serve to illustrate some points about philosophy and ethics, and demonstrate views and feelings from a range of jumpers.

Plus the more shit given to sticker boy, the less chance it will happen in the future.

Being from the UK I assume you mean the one on the UK board at the moment?

http://www.basejumper.org/.../viewtopic.php?t=184


If you think the responses and reactions are childish, then please post this thought on the UK board.

Jumpers do get upset for a reason, its not childish, it is a reasonable arguement - please see my post on the UK board that trys to explain...

Ahh yes.. the well known BASE mafia. Dont fuck with them

I respect the sport and the ethics to a certain degree but I would expect people involved in such a dangerous activity to show a bit more maturity at times. It must be frustrating when people fuck up, but behave, educate them and I dont mean through beastings.

I also suggest that anyone who gets all offensive on the internet think about what they write. Because angry posts really make you look like a cock (in my opinion)

 

Well put, Collin.

right on.

I think what they did was wrong.....people, especially the locals, have a right to be pissed off..
but...repeated threats of violence and gear sabotage hardly constitute a reasonable response .......do they?

I hear you.... I dont at all support what he was doing !!
I was referring in my last post to the matter that despite the fact he has agreed its bad and wont do it again.....people are still posting insulting negative comments.....
Th man has agreed not to do it no more......thats a good start/result ..aint it?
At least give him credit for that response in comparison to the other response he could have given.... ie to turn around with two fingers at y'all with a big fuck you grin saying...I'm gonna keep doing it.

Think I'm done with this one.....

If you read the UK forum thread it'll make more sense probably. Im basically saying damaging peoples kits or using violence are not proportionate to what somone has done. You dont have to BASE to realise that and if people think it is justified then they are tossers and deserve whatever happens to them. Bad karma comes from doing nasty things. It works both ways

I'll sell u a BASE rig so u have a reason to post here
16 jumps thats not bad for a day of jumping

***************************
Jeez with this and another thread I'm following on a breach of ethics......I understand the frustration and concern....but frankly the response is just as childish and overdone....
***************************

I make a motion that we reward everyone who makes nice mature posts on this subject with a gold star on their forehead

holy shit, this guy magot is a fuckin' re-tard. based on his posts and reading about his dumb-ass decisions in moab during the last turkey boogie, i can't believe BASE jumping is going that way. sorry for flying off the subject, but what a joke.

i wonder why i can't get away from reading dorkzone??? pure entertainment!!

i hope this sport doesn't implode!

Please review the forum rules, in particular:


Calling someone a "fuckin' re-tard" is a personal attack.

I've banned you from this forum for 14 days.

Off topic, but there has been some discussion of trying to create a "carrot" to go with the "stick" of moderator bans and such on these forums. We could call them "gold stars".

  Just leave your skydiving mentality at the door.

Cheers,
-C.
I had no idea that there was a friction between skydivers and base jumpers. I have been thinking of base jumping for some years, just recently I have been thinking of not much else, I have been doing my research and thinking of booking a FJC. After one day of reading BASE forums i think i have changed my mind.

 

You mean like hookturning after a 180 foot PCA?

I had no idea that there was a friction between skydivers and base jumpers. I have been thinking of base jumping for some years, just recently I have been thinking of not much else, I have been doing my research and thinking of booking a FJC. After one day of reading BASE forums i think i have changed my mind.I have to borrow this quote from Avery........
Hello,
If you are already disappointed,
you aren't tough enough for BASE.
Please call your mom to pick you up.

God bless you,

~J

Absolutely, and if you go around fucking things up for a lot of other people then according to your karma principle you're due to be fucked up yourself. That's what was being suggested. Removing a disrespectful jumpers means of constantly pissing off other people. The confiscation or destruction of their rig.

I asked you in that thread what recourse is left to base jumpers who have to tolerate the constant barrage of disrespect from an errant jumper once they have asked, explained and even pleaded with another jumper to curtail their day blazing, video posting, site naming ways.

You suggested the following. Exclusion! FRom what??? You suggested blacklisting their number (not their name, their number). Blacklisting them from what and what if they turn up after they have been blacklisted, blacklist them even more? You even suggested fining them. Under what/whose authority?

Your solutions are those of someone who has absolutely no grasp of what they are talking about. None whatsoever. They are the reiterations of an institutionalised sheep. YOU STILL DO NOT GET IT. AT ALL.

Once all the reasonable routes have been exhausted, once this inconsiderate jumper has made it absolutely clear that they will not comply with reasonable requests, all that is left is force. That can range from stopping someone physically climbing onto an object. taking their rig, or pummelling them into a bloody mess, but all require the use of some level of physical restraint.

Physical force or restraint isn't a pleasant option and should be seen as a last resort, but the options are either do nothing and allow the authorities to forcefully prevent us all jumping an object or forcefully prevent that from happening. When someone refuses point blank to play by the little rules we all implicitly agree to then i fail to see any other viable option.

You of all people (as a police officer) are required constantly to utilise force to bring about control. You constantly use restraint. You constantly remove the means to reoffend by destruction or confiscation. You constantly restrict the freedom of others (yes righteously in most cases) to prevent further damage or injury.

You not only understand and condone the use of reasonable force, you employ it on a daily basis, yet you righteously, piously post on here, trying to bad mouth and discredit some of the most considerate, likeable, helpful caring BASE jumpers in the UK.

You called us tossers. Hey, that's fine. I can deal with that cos you know what?, i need you and your opinions like i need 180 off a cliff.

Hey and let's not forget, it was this tosser who took the time to respond to your plea for help for jumpers in your area for advice on BASE, it was this tosser who rang and talked to your mates FJC coach to get an idea of his ability and experience and how that might help me give him the best possible advice, and it was this tosser who contacted you the other day to meet and talk.

Sam, you're entitled to your opinions, and as a law enforcement agent, i would expect you to have strong opinions, and like i said in that thread ' no hard feelings' but to come on here and bad mouth us and call us tossers is just stunning in it's audacity and contempt.

You have no frame of reference for BASE. You simply do not understand, and you just don't appreciate the gravity and seriousness of what's involved. The next few days might make you realise what the stakes are.

ian - a london jumper and a very non violent person.

 
Here's just my 0.02c on the current situation ...

Firstly it's almost impossible to maintain rules in an unregulated sport.

There is a certain degree of self regulation which used to be more effective because of the very limited choices that existed to a potential newbie looking at starting base (it was relatively easy to control their access to information / tuition and equipment).

Nowadays information (objects / technical info etc) is easier to obtain and instruction and equipment is easier to obtain.

So the "old" system of self regulation is increasingly under pressure from those who would ignore / abuse the system or those with perhaps a commercial or other interest.

The options left seem to be either:-

DIRECT ACTION - which includes the suspension of access to equipment of prevention of access to an object (perhaps due to mobility issues such as broken limbs) ....

Or INDIRECT ACTION which is the more difficult option but involves groups of all those people who maybe affected by all the negative effects of these un-educated / headstrong jumpers (often who are learning without guidance) ... Grouping together and taking a collective responsibility to try and educate those that are following along this path.

Perhaps prospective new jumpers on a commercial course could have to produce a reference from a local jumper prepared to take responsibility for the new jumper - this would also only work if those current jumpers within an area also took an active responsibility and interest in those wishing to learn ... It would be no longer possible for someone to say "well thanks for all my tuition but i do not feel able to be responsible for another person" but would instead put the onus on the current jumpers to support the locals who wish to teach and train.

Options include

1. To try and govern by force - which is difficult both morally and effectively

2. To try and govern by influence to show by example and leadership the path that is recommended so all involved in the sport have a standard to try and achieve.

3. To accept the status quo and drift through this situation with no ability to determine the outcome - often with a great deal of ineffectual bitching and self congratulation

4 To try and wash your hands of the situation - although eventually the sum of everyone else's actions will eventually effect you

5 Move to NZ - it's a great country .... ;-)

One thing i think everyone will agree with is that the situation will not just simply go away and perhaps it is time for the whole community to try and find a simple set of arrangements that will safe-guard the future if the sport for the next generations, because as much as we owe those that blazed a path before us, perhaps it is our responsibility to ensure a future for those who follow ....

One thing that is certain .... those who aare forced into a postion where force seems the only option are generally not the type of people who wish to inflict harm randomly on innocents but are often simply normal, rational individuals who are passionate about our sport who have often simply run out of options and would happily consider any viable alternative that can be presented ....

Perhaps a wiser person than me can suggest a reasonable and effective alternative to the simple method of controlling access to sites and equipment ....

Now i'm off to try and re-pack before my head hurts too much ....