Basejumper.com - archive

I have a question.
It seems that the longer I follow BASE, the more real the dangers and the fatalities are beginning to seem.

Please correct me if I'm wrong-
I have derived...with every jump you make, you're pretty much accepting that you could die or be severely injured no matter how good you are... and the risk is a lot higher than skydiving. So before you jump, you have to be sure that the reward is greater than the risk (the calculation of this is completely personal)...right?
Is that how it actually works in the heads of every jumper?
Realistically- does this assessment take place before every jump? Or do you decide before undertaking BASE and then just enjoy yourself from that day onwards?
Or do many people just go ahead and jump all the time in the mindset of 'it can't happen to me'? And is that fine too?

yep

extremely doubtful, but it would seem appropriate.

every jump should be analyzed and not taken for granted. this analysis can shorten dramatically as a jumper becomes familiar with an object and learns the local conditions. new objects deserve more respect.

what people derive from jumping and why they do it can be very personal and varies between jumpers. therefore, thought processes will vary. many jumpers have stories of all the conditions being right, but they chose not to jump.

I still consider myself very new to this sport and still have much to learn about different jumps, different gear configurations and most importantly learn more about why I do it (even though I'm pretty sure I know why I do it). When I approach the exit point, I usually get pretty quiet and don't have this "awe radical man this is going to be cool" attitude. Instead I'm more subdue and think "shit where did I go wrong in life? why am I here?". And then as long as the conditions are right for the jump, all of a sudden something goes off in my head "it's time to go" and I'm gone. Plus that 2 second delay from when I present the pilot chute to when the canopy opens is usually the longest two seconds (that despite my 80+ jumps to date), I just don't seem to get used to as I wonder "shit is this it, am I going to die?". But then the canopy opens and yes while I know I'm still not safe under canopy, I am relieved (I love flying my canopies be it a large BASE canopy or a small swooping skydiving canopy), and I feel relaxed and I remember why I like playing in the skies so much.

But there is a tough question that we must all ask ourselves. "Is jumping worth the risk of dying for?" and the answer very much is a personal thing which CAN change in time as our lives change. I hope to be jumping (both BASE and skydiving) years from now, but only time will tell if I am.

People will always get killed and injuryed in BASE,If a jumper hasnt realiced that this might werry well happen to him or her,then the person really should reconsidder if theyre in the right sport..

I dunno about the acsept i mean.. as genneral i dont get acsess to places i wont jump,then as im in there i might get another thourght about it and walk away..Meaning that i wont look up and say "man im gonna die or get hurt on this one" and then climb the thing....

That said ive jumped my local daylight A so much that weather really needs to be really bad if i aint gonna jump.. that said i know that greater risk of doing so,but also i know that im familiar whith the site and know what i can expect,and i know what i have planned and before gott away whith..

that's pretty much what my jumps are like too ...

This is not a bad thing to realise/think/feel. You CAN die BASE jumping. But it is not just a function of luck or a blind acceptance that it is such a high risk sport that you have no chance to survive. If you believe that you might as well put a bullet in each chamber and go play Russian Roulette.

YOU CAN do many things to mitigate or minimise the dangers. IF you decide you want to.


Lets put this statement in context. You can die crossing the road, playing lawn bowls, fishing, riding your bike, etc. In that context, of course you could die on every BASE jump.

BASE is riskier than skydiving? Yes and no. If you are talking averages (number of jumps, types of jumps, etc, it is absolutely correct. But if you are talking specifics, then it is not necessarily correct. The point I am trying to make is as follows: when individuals talk about the risks of BASE jumping, they are generally concerned for their own welfare and are trying to get a measure of "is it worth me participating in this activity"?. "Am I going to get injured or die"? They are trying to ascertain whether or not they should participate. Some are looking for an answer or method that says it is not risky. Some like to imagine it to be extremely risky in order to satisfy a deep underlying psychological need. There are a million reasons for the various opinions on risk and reward in BASE jumping. You have to find out what your underlying "thing" is and then try to answer the question in that context.

If you are after danger, then yes, BASE can be extremely risky. Just go and do a high degree of difficulty manouvre on an advanced site and you will satisfy your craving.. At a higher risky.

If you are after safety and comfort, etc - do all the training, get all the right gear, master the basics, take one step at a time, be realistic about your suitability for the sport, etc. You will reduce your risk immensely.

My opinion on the risks / rewards thing - you CAN control the risks in both activities to such a point that it becomes as safe as other activities in life. You can go to the other extreme too. That is one of the beauties and problems with these sports. But it is YOUR decision to make. You determine the risk level by what you decide to do and not to do. Whether this decision is conscious/sub-conscious, with information, without information, under the influence, sober, etc does not matter. YOU make the decision. If you get killed or badly injured, you can't blame the activity for the decisions you made.

If I make a dumb decision and pulled it off. That is luck. If I don't pull it off, that is expected (as opposed to bad luck). It would be nice to have the benefit of hindsight in a lot of accidents. That would have prevented most of them. But hang on a second.... We DO have the benefit of hindsight in many cases. People have made the same stuff ups before and it has been public knowledge... Hence, if you REALLY want to prevent most accidents, you can. That is if you want to.

Reward is always a personal thing. A first time jumper will have the Big O and their first bridge jump. But a 1000 jump veteran might be a little bored. The reward to risk is much lower for the experienced jumper (aim is a high number).


EVERY jump - if you want to reduce the risk and increase your life span in the sport. You, your equipment, the weather, etc, may be different on EVERY jump. Hence, you should treat every jump as different. You also decide before you take up BASE if it is really what you want, why you are doing it, where you plan to do it, etc. If your motivations are not honourable, your risk level WILL be higher because your level of respect and understanding will be lower.


We are human. We make dumb decisions some times. If you make dumb decisions in an environment where your margin for error is minimised, your risk is higher. Is it fine? NO. Unless you do not value your life and it's duration.

In the end it just comes down to one of Dwain's quotes:

"Well mate, sometimes you've just got to put a bullet in the chamber, give it a spin, and pull the fuckin' trigga."

I think Jeb made a very good statement:

“The reality is that no matter what you do in this life, it’s coming to an end. Once you accept that there’s nothing you can do about your own mortality. Then your now free. You have no control. So stop pretending you do. And just get on with living your life and stop living in fear.”

When I’m at the exit point, I know very well that I could die or be seriously injured. I also know that I could get killed on the way to work tomorrow morning by some ass hole who doesn’t know how to drive.

The fact is that BASE jumping gives my life meaning. Without it, there is really no point. When I’m at the exit point or in freefall I am the happiest I could ever be. Yes, this activity could end my life, but it’s worth it. I’d rather live 22 years and get however many BASE jumps than live 100 years and never jump again.

Coco

I don't think it's quite that simple. I don't think it's about whether or not life is coming to an end but about the timing of it all. Like you can manage your risk in BASE and mitigate it, you can do the same in your regular life and hope to prolong it. Getting into BASE is not a step towards reducing your risk exposure in life. The fact remains, if you get into BASE you are substantially increasing your risk of a serious injury or death no matter how careful you are.
From there on it's a matter of perspective and personal choices.

I think the message is very simple and I disagree with you. You have no control over what happens in your life from day to day regarding whether you will live or die. Most people think they do….but truly don’t. Death is only a step away even if you’re not jumping off of buildings and cliffs. The point is, life is full of danger and potential risk to be killed or seriously injured. Spend a few days in a hospital ER and you’ll see how many terrible things happen to people that were doing common every day tasks that people do not see as particularly dangerous, or even slightly as dangerous as BASE. There are many things in life, like BASE, that could enrich a person’s soul beyond a point thought possible. Just because its dangerous and you don’t partake in the activity doesn’t mean you are more likely to live longer than the person that does. If there is something you want to do, do it! Do it as safely as you possibly can but do it! Don’t live in fear. Make your life meaningful.

Every time I climb up on that rail or walk up to the exit point, there is always a thought in the back of my mind, “Well I sure hope that I’m gonna walk away from this one.” I know that each jump it could be my last. But at that moment when I step off, I know that it enriches my life and I would be dead inside if I didn’t do what drives me. Do I want to die? Heck no, there are a shit load of places I’d like to jump before I go. But if I did die would I be happy with how I spent the time I was given. Yes, because I know that I did something that made me happy and didn’t sit in my house wishing I had the balls to not live my life in fear.

You never know if today will be your last day. Something as simple as choking on a piece of candy and not having anyone around to help you could end it.

L8er
Coco

What a load of crap!

The assertion that you have no control is ridiculous. There are certainly uncontroled elements in any situation but to insist that there are no parameters that you can influence is ludicrous.

Give up the part time philosophy and concentrate on staying alive.

You tit.

Try again.

I second that motion. Plain and simple, you base because you want to, and you love it, and you are willing to accept the possible problems associated. It's fun and you do it for fun!! Just enjoy and always be ready to deal with a mal. Most jumpers don't jump because they have a death wish, they have a life wish to have fun while they are alive.
Keep jumping and do it as safely as possible.

"The fear of loss is a path to the dark side...Rejoice for those around you who transform into the force.
Mourn them do not. Miss them do not. Attachment leads to jealousy, the shadow of greed that is. Train yourself to let go of everything you fear to lose."
-Master Yoda

that is all.

FYI, I am planning on replying to all three of the last postings. I'm in the Medical part of the Fire Academy right now and there is a shit load of studying so I can't adequately/fully reply at the moment. I'll post on Friday evening. Just wanted to put that up here so you didn't think I ran away with my tail between my legs!

L8er
Coco

Edit: Spelling

Thanks for all the replies!

I am now wondering.. do you think a jumper's attitude affects the way they handle an unexpected problem during a jump?

For example, you have the same jumper, same exit point, same experience level, same conditions.
Attitude 1 is - "I love this sport but I don't know what could happen. I hope this jump goes fine, I think I am being careful."

Attitude 2 is - "I am a BASE god. Nothing can touch me."

Logically, I would think that if you are confident that nothing is going to happen to you - if something does happen, you would be able to retain a cool head and deal with the problem because you have already convinced yourself nothing will happen to you and so you are less likely to panic.

Whereas if you were less confident in your own abilities, you would hesitate in making a decision and it could kill you.

I understand that there are exceptions to every rule but I am just wondering if this example generally applies to BASE. Are you more likely to perfom better under pressure if you do indeed believe that you are invincible?

Disclaimer: I am not making any assumptions or voicing any opinions.. I am just trying to question and understand how things work.

I hope people dont think this way......


These people ..if they do exsist.. are probubaly either dead or at least crippled...

Attitude has nothing to due with being heads up. This sport requires working under pressure whether you are cocky or not.....

Just my 2 cents

For someone who has never BASE jumped you seem to know very little about it.

I think it does matter. look at how competition skydivers talk about controlling their "arousal level." they try to get pumped up, but not excessively, for optimum performance.

BASE jumpers talk about an inner voice. many times it is a comfort level. something just feels off. many have climbed down and some WISH they had...

jumpers must clear their head of everything BUT the jump. any mental distraction risks slowing down a needed response.

an overconfident jumper might overlook important considerations.

an underconfident jumper will stand at the exit point wondering why he is there...

I never claimed "i did"...

all i ment was that in any risk activity you will find people with all sorts of different attitudes...that doesnt mean they cannot all be heads up also....

cheers.....

I make this assessment on every jump. Jumps are dramatically different in risk level, so each needs to be considered individually. Conditions change, objects are different, and even how you feel changes from jump to jump. Ever tried to perform at your best athletically the night after a drinking binge?



Some people do that. In my opinion it's very silly, but there you go.

Well cancel my last posting. I'm not gonna have time to reply fully as I would like to. But I will say this. I never said I had a death wish or that most jumpers do. I think you need to re-read my posting. I just stated my mindset before jumping and about BASE as a whole. To very briefly sum it up: I have accepted that in this life I'm going to die. It could be today, tomorrow or in 30 years and could happen from anything. “Shit happens.” Regardless of when that day will be I'm not going to live in fear and not do things because they are dangerous. I’m going to do what makes me happy and what gives meaning to my life even if it means it could kill me.

“Just because our dreams and who we are is different than other people. Doesn’t make it wrong or bad or a waste. It’s who we are, its what we are. Its what we love and there’s nothing wrong with that. And if you die doing something that you love, its not throwing your life away.” Jeb

Skin, if you think that about what I said, it’s all good. We each have different ideas and ways of looking at things and we are obviously on opposite sides of the spectrum with this one. When you post in this forum you should know that you open yourself up to criticism so be my guest. Even if someone thinks and tells me I’m full of shit for something I feel or believe, I won’t it against them. Differences make us all unique. I’ll still share an exit point with you and call you my brother!

L8er
Coco

ask magot... he seems to be doing aright

Yes I am. I recently received the Nobel Prize for solveing world hunger. But then decided that I am to self absorbed to help anyone but hot chicks

you never saw neither my packjob neither the way i jump..
when are you going to EU again.. i still owe you that pint

or concentrate about jumping,drinking and having good sex