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So,
Hypotheticaly, we take a heads up guy or girl, No skydives, No paragliding...

After giving hours worth of ground training, showing film of everything, a canopy Kiteing class, Exit Practice in a pool, Specific to each Option, and assuming we did it only once...


What would be Safer, A Handheld off the potato with planned water landing, or an unassisted Skydive from 5000', with Cypress. both with BASE style Canopies with a wing loading of .5/1.

Not gonna do it, but Some BASE freinds and I were discussing it last night, and we could not conclude.
...................................

Is the skydive an IAD or static-line jump, or does the student have to pitch his own PC?

Make the BASE jump a PCA and put a boat in the water, and I'd say it's much safer.

I'm not a BASE jumper, so I'm sure my commenting will piss some people off... but here it goes anyway:

I would think the BASE jump with water landing would be safer. My reasoning is that after exit practice into a pool, I would assume they would have that part down. Beyond that, it's just a matter of getting the PC out of their hand without a horse shoe and getting them to land in the water, as far as I'm aware.

On the skydive, I've got a picture in my head of someone spinning out of control in freefall on their back to a Cypres fire and ending up with spinning line twists on a reserve at low altitude.

Again, I'm not a BASE jumper... and my skydiving experience is limited as well, so it's entirely possible that what I just said makes no sense at all.

edit to add: I vote potato

Anytime you're landing in water, it's got to be (assumed) safer than landing over hard ground.

You are comparing a base death camp to pretty much every skydiver's AFF level 1.
So does that make AFF level 1 a death camp?
This is assuming you didn't have to do a tandem first and many don't have to.

The big difference to this and an AFF level one would be an instructor holding on on either side.

I think the difference is there is no freefall present instructors, I have seen footy of Darwin first AFF jumpers freaking out, not being able to breathe. if there was no instructors there they would have been pulling handles until they ran out of them or they hit the ground, most of them spinning wildly.

And i am not talking a jump door otter,
a 182 with a side door, no static line, no AFF instructors, 10 second delay.


And how about if we Make the potato jump without a water landing, instruct to land on the big LZ?

Ask this same question in another forum and see what kind of answers you get?

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good idea...

easily Potato , remember the bag of dogfood ?

The first bag or the second bag?

Remember, the first one had a 90 left resulting in wall strike.

What kind of delay did it take?

Potato for sure...
Do not have to be concerned with pulling the PC.
Do not have to be concerned with instability issues.
Do not have to be concerned with navigating a parachute for the first time and where to land.

in DK we use SL progression off airplanes all the time,ill say that jumping out of the plane is safer.
after all its how we do it but i guess US only does AFF and Tandems theese days?

Negative, The 3 freinds i jump with now regularly all learned SLP, in colorado. AFF is a USPA thing.

huh???
i deafently think that a person can ruin his/hers day by not beeing stabel even on a SL.
Beeing stabel is one of the basics as you get a canopy out to keep you safe.
catching the caskade points on your canopy will get the greatest groundrush just before you hurt or kill your self..

huh?
Im not whith you here.
first off we usaly use square canopyes,which are good to manuver,they also is good at onheaddings on a SL/PCA

BUT they has to land the canopy either in water or at dryland.As i visited that S i saw 2 people getting hurt under canopy at that S,both had a square canopy above their heads and both had more than 30 BASEjumps(i dunno their exact jump #´s). one had linetwists and a blow toogle,flew below the S and into the rocky area were she got some nasty bruises(im not sure if she broke her leg(fibor tib).
the other person were a guy landing at the wrong area at dryland cutting his leg so he needed to get some stiches(so did the girl for sure).

So i deafently think you should be abel to navigate your canopy.

Did you mean a round canopy?
I woudnt recomend to SL or PCA any of the know BASE rounds off that S,the pilot will be high above water and has more chance to drift into dry land were ill say you have a big chance getting hurt under a round BASE canopy.
round BASE canopyes should open close and direct above their LZ(water) which off the S means atleast 2.5 sec(more is preffered) which requires a delay..

and for the last
the only thing on a BASE that matters is getting a canopy out which means you need to pay attention to your PC,no matter if its SL,PCA ,handheld or stowed..

the above statements are my point of weiv on thouse supbjects..
Actualy i see no reasson to death camp anyone...
If a person ONLY want to BASE he/she should first off get a mentor,then i would say they should go to the DZ get some jumps in and get familiar whith a square canopy,than as the mentor think its ok they could go to that realative safe S.. that could be a personal way to get a person in,but as genneral i will recomend atleast 200skydives and a FJC by one of all thouse that offer this.

I should have been more specific

In regards to:
"Do not have to be concerned with instability issues"
I'm basically saying that if the student goes headlow, he just has to let go of the pc. Whereas a skydive at terminal, he is much more liable to flip around and struggle getting belly to earth before reaching back and throwing a pilot chute.

In regards to:
"Do not have to be concerned with navigating a parachute for the first time and where to land"
... well of course this is the biggest concern in either situation. However, a clumsy flare over water is much more desirable than over land. Also, pending opening goes correctly, he can simply fly the parachute straight in to the water. Does not have to look around and try to pick a 'spot' to land, judge angle of attack and so forth.

I should have joked even harder at you

Start with gainers... yeah, gainers...

GAINERS!!!! yeah... why didnt i think of that?

shit, we should just head to the gash, thats like a bridge right?