Basejumper.com - archive

Anybody get a Turkey Day jump?

I almost did but I missed the window and the winds went down the wires. Oh well....

Hope everyone got nice and full yesterday!

Coco

If I told you, I'd have to kill you. So no comment.

But there should be a shit load of Turkey Day jumpers out in Moab right now. But the last time I checked, there was no wireless internet support on the good cliffs of Moab. Plus I'm sure the guys/gals were too busy getting drunk last night to be bothering posting online.

Thats true I forgot about the Turkey boogie! Lucky bastards, I wish I could go out to moab.

Coco

Only morons jump in fog like that. I'm still picking branches out of my canopy...

Never said I was the sharpest crayon in the box.


Despite the fact that I'm the one who landed right next to the really nasty branches, I guess I got off lucky. Next time I'm going to land straight instead of turning left. It seemed like a good idea at the time until I realized how close I came to that shit.

I snapped this photo of my buddy Ken in Moab on Thanksgiving. Yesterday was quite an eventful day as well.

I was able to get one very high jump and one very low jump in Moab on Turkey Day. The weather was awesome until Sat. when the winds come up and that nasty storm hit the Rockies and Central Plains. I guess getting stuck in Vail on my way home isn't such a bad thing.

dmcoco84:
Anybody get a Turkey Day jump?
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Uh Ohhhhh, Just so happens that Dexterbase and I got to Jug-Up a couple lines to top-out on, C-Tower on Thanksgiving Morning.
we got 2-Min. canopy rides down the 1000 ft. talus & out to the Desert floor.
.
sucks you could not go..........
.
Day before Thanksgiving We Also got to work on the BIG FISHERman, Pile-O-dirt. to Jug-up 5 pitches on the Colorado Route to TOP OUT and get Min.+ Canopy rides off that BigBoy and fly down and past Ancient art/cork-screw each to make a sweat landing.
.
ALSO:
.......Most Entertaining was the 3 wall strikes in less than 24 hours we both got to see before pulling out of town back to the great N.W.
.Chad says: "I'm workin on my BASE rescue number. Just One More Object to go ! ".......
.

Yeah, I couldn't believe I got to witness all three strikes. I actually got to help with some of the rescue of Maggot too. Never thought I would be a part of something like that. Had a blast at the bridge/Moab though! On the wall strikes, let's just be glad that no one was killed. It did ruin a could have been great day of jumping. But we didn't lose 3 jumpers and got some GREAT footage!

Yo, does anyone know what the injuries were for the guys that had strikes?
Man, and i've got to hear what the cost of that helicopter was, ouch
~J

Maggot got off with an avulsion fracture of the right lateral malleolus.

Not sure what Marty (Martin?) ended up with. Suspected Right hip or pelvic fracture on scene though.

The strike at (the cliff by the frozen pizza cliff), the jumper limped away but was favoring one ankle. I suspect he sprained it. (He did a kick-ass job of flying it to the dirt and not giving up though. He out-flew the talus by what looked to be 10 feet or so. Nice work on not getting killed. If he would have hit the talus immediately under where he struck the wall, I think the canopy would have deflated and he would have probably tumbled down the very steep talus for a good distance. That would have resulted in some bad injuries.)

Yeah, I couldn't believe he pulled out of that one. The exit point was the "crown." In my opinion, bad body position resulted in the 180. He flew the shit out of that ACE after the strike though. I have the footage of the strike, and if he hadn't reacted the way that he did, I don't believe it would have been very good.
On the Martin incident, he is about 61 years old, just got into BASE or has few jumps, told me personally that he didn't have the strength to pull on his rears. So he goes to his toggles no matter what. He also hadn't made a jump in 6 months. All of this put together equals insanity.

I felt very sorry for him though. He had to wait at the bottom of Mary's Gash for 2 hours waiting on that chopper. Plus he drove from out of state, so he will have that to deal with too. He is a really nice guy participating in an unforgiving sport. I don't think he will ever completely recover from this incident. I hope everything works out the best for him.

>>Wait a sec, was that Marty M. from florida, flying hellfish #2?
Does anyone know? Please pm

He injured the outside of his left foot pretty good and didn't mention any ankle pain. I looked at the video and a frame of the video shows him impacting the wall with his left foot. It must have stuck on something on the wall because in the video still his left foot was on the wall and his knee was up in his chest as the right leg was hanging completely straight.

After landing, he took his boot off and the outside of his foot swelled up pretty quickly. I think he fractured or broke the bone in his foot, but it may have just been badly bruised.

It was a very scary strike from my point of view. I couldn't see a thing since I was standing alone at the exit point trying to lean over the edge to see what was going on. I was very relieved to finally see a canopy fly out and make it to the road (and then to see the jumper stand up the landing, indicating that he wasn't missing a leg or anything).

The next time I talk to him I'll find out what the official prognosis was (if he ever ended up getting it checked out).

crazydave44:
.."told me personally that he didn't have the strength to pull on his rears. So he goes to his toggles no matter what."
-----------

I might be a little harsh here but You have got to be joking ???
You are saying that he Knows he does NOT have the ability to Pull Rear Risers ???? Holy Fucking Shit ! Say It Isn't So.
I personally know that Smacking an object hurts but That is one of the most fucked-up things I have Read in a while. Knowing you have low experience and BASE Jumping off a shear-face object and NOT knowing that in desperation of Not Dieing that proper use of Rear Risers is Ohhhhhh so important to say the least.
To personally make a decision to jump shear faced objects knowing you are going at it with a physical limitation that would have a direct effect on the outcome of a lifesaving recovery maneuver is just plain wrong but personal choice. Going for Toggles only for heading control on shear-face is an advanced move to say the least. If it was a personal decision that you go in the jump knowing the consequences of having physical limitation to save your life. That is a Ruff choice. That's a personal Choice and you knowingly accept the consequences. You are a free acting BASE jumper.
.

I know the name of the exit point, but I left it out so I wouldn't be site naming. That is the correct exit point though. It was pretty scary watching it from the ground. I must have landed 30 seconds before he hit the wall from the same exit point I just jumped.

After carrying two jumpers out the day before, I just couldn't believe it when I saw that canopy go 180. I knew as soon as he hit linestretch that he was going into the wall. As he hit the wall the second time, I was grateful there were a few jumpers out there to help with rescue #3. Thankfully he kept his shit together and pulled it off nicely.

ZegeunerLeben, as far as Martin, he yelled out "hellfish!" as he exited and his rig had Hellfish embroidery, so I suspect you're right about that one.

>>Oh man
Thanks Chad.

Ray and Dave

That's not what I heard from Marta.

She said Marty had decided to use toggles for heading corrections, as he could not get his canopy to turn using rear risers when he tried that.

This does not really surprise me, as I have seen and heard from plenty of jumpers who have not learned yet to fly their BASE canopies competently.

cya
sam

I have to put this out there since this is the like the third time I have heard the "I can’t pull on the risers so I just go for toggles” and may be very applicable here.

Riser corrections are a pretty basic emergency procedure taught in most any BASE FJC but some FJC are starting to teach toggle corrections (which has already been debated in another thread) but what happens if you have line twists and are flying back into the object.... YOU ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO BE ABLE TO REACH ABOVE THE TWIST AND PULL ON THE RISERS/ LINES or anything to get the canopy turning TO SAVE YOUR LIFE! I have had to do it once and have the video of a good friend of mine with like 4 full twists climbing up his lines to reach above the twist to get the canopy turning away from the object.

This debate about toggles or risers is valid amongst experienced BASE jumpers but all beginners should be intimately familiar with riser corrections and be able to pull down on the risers or pull down from above the twist...especially when faced with line twists and imminent object strike. After you turn the canopy away from the wall, then deal with the twists.

One of the best jumpers ever (RIP) has a video on skydiving movies of him going for the toggles (object height and experience made this a logical choice) after a 180 and missing it then striking the wall…no names here but he was probably one of the best BASE jumpers ever and if he can miss the toggle I’d guess anybody can.

Yes there are good reason to do both but to say “I wont or cant do riser corrections is pretty much insane!”

I hope everyone who is BASE jumping knows this but if not...that is a nice little BASE lesson 101 that will save your life.

Thanks for pointing that out Ray.

Donk

Marty had I believe a 180 or close to that off the pizza rock the day before. People on the ground said he handled it well and landed safetly. I think I know someone who has video of that.
I was standing next to Marty as he was preparing to exit the next day. He started to go and then stopped asking where the landing area was. After I pointed it out he helled "Hellfish" as he exited going hand held. The sound of his opening sounded just like it did the day before, not like everyone elses. So I looked over the edge to see Marty flying parallel with the wall. No big deal I thought but his canopy started to turn slowly toward the cliff. I would say he had a full four seconds or more before he impacted the wall. I would assume he had line twist high enough he could not climb up to correct his heading.
I wish him the best.

That is exactly what it looked like from the LZ and I saw some video Friday night that looked like he had a half or full twist.

I wish him a speedy recovery as well. He was so sweet looking up at all us from the back board..."is that Jimmy P and Kenyon from Triax, Donk's here too and wow, Jason Bell..." It kind of remindinded me of the scene from the Wizard of Oz when Dorathy wakes up in bed. we weren't in Kansas that is for sure...

Has anyone heard what the full extent of his injuries were? From our perspective and the EMT it seemed isolated to the hip area...or he is one really tuff bastard for hanging in there during that hour long talus hike strapped on the BB. It had to be excruating with even a minor fracture.

He will be yelling hellfish before long I am sure.

My thoughts were maybe he didn't even realize he was that close to the wall or flying towards it. From the video, he was turning CCW on opening and his momentum appeared to carry him at least a full 360 from heading.

I could imagine someone realizing they were not headed at a wall (which he wasn't immediately), starting to deal with the line twists (which might appear to be the most immediate issue), and not realizing they were turning into the object. The turn was quite gradual as DaveO mentioned. Marty had time to deal with the issue. I guess we'll have to wait for feedback from Marty before we will really know.

I was on the truck coming up from the bottom when we saw the rescue crew on the talus. I'm amazed his injuries were not worse and that the rescue crew were able to get him down without increasing his state of injury.

Kudo's to Jimmy and the rest for their efforts. It's nice to know we have friends like that. Maggot would have been hard-pressed to survive the situation he was in without the fast actions of all involved in his rescue.

980:
..."She said Marty had decided to use toggles for heading corrections, as he could not get his canopy to turn using rear risers when he tried that."
.....................
OK I am totally guessing about this in Marty's situation / Also would like to hear it from the Pilot to be a learning lesson for me and anyone else. but not being able to turn a No-Slider opening with a line twist using Rear Risers & having to go to Toggles sounds pretty suspect. The one thing that is consistent with lookers was that it was a Slow Canopy Carve to impact and That really has my curiosity up on why. This sport is non-forgiving sometimes on simple mistakes or just simply making a wrong move under extreme pressure.
I am Not so much being critical of Marty's situation but my curiosity just gets Peeked-Out when I see 3 cliff Strikes in less than 24 hours. Two walk away and One gets carried out. I just have the need to understand why some make it and fill in the blanks -why- when they don't get to walk away.
OK - Unlike the endless possibilities of twists you can have with Slider-Up openings. Or the dreaded Twist below the Slider. Locking/Keeping it from completing it's travel to the Risers and far out of reach to go above the Line Twist to make Heading Correction.
For one No-Slider line twists are for the majority are Very Low and can even get so low as to Pin your head down. -(i have had this and seen this)- Also the opening of a No-Slider usually Whips the Pilot Out of the twist pretty quick just on it's own energy span wise of canopy and line spread. It would be a Rare Thing to have a line twist high and being physically able to reach above it on a No-Slider.
If you have a line twist on a No-Slider opening and are under extreme pressure of a possible Strike. Pulling down on the Risers below the twist rather that reaching above would give hampered Heading Correction Input. Not only by friction of twist but by the fact that you can Not Give a compete Range of Motion (short stroke) Not able to pull Down Completely. Because of the fact of the twist being so close to the Risers on a No-Slider opening. Reaching Above the Twist will give you a full stroke/Range of motion. In all cases.
Hopefully Marty will be able to fill in the blanks at some point if only it to be educational to everyone. Until then I'm only guessing on why he did not get a free pass to walk like everyone else did & that really sucks. Hopefully Marty wont keep me Guessing why. Untill then it only gives me a false feeling of security thinking I might know the answers by guessing.

.

Ray

I don't know what Marty said after the strike, the statement that Marta referred to was made a day or so before his cliff strike and if I understood it correctly he had practiced heading corrections with the risers, but due to not getting a satisfactory response from his canopy, he had decided to use toggles for heading corrections in all situations.

I would really like to hear it from Marty's point of view too, as the video from the exit just looks so wrong: a fairly innocuous looking left 70-80 turns into a wallstrike.

wishing a speedy recovery to Marty, Maggot and Clint

I'm Marty MacDonald, the 61 year old guy who had a wall strike at Moab and was helicoptered out. I have just now gotten up the courage to read what was being said about me while I was laying in St. Mary's Hospital in Grand Junction, CO. Friends had told me that I was getting traashed on Dropzone.com - but it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. Most of what has been said is totally factual. I would like to clear up a few misconceptions and then provide some incite into what happened that day for the benefit of anyone it may help. The most important thing I want to say is that the people who rescued me are the Best People in the world - not just the Best BASE jumpers in the world. I have thanked them all individually but I would like to publicly thank them in this forum (since these were legal jumps I'm hoping this doesn't violate the rules of the website). They are William Gaddy, Kenyon Salo, Jimmy Pouchert, Jason Bell, Tony "Donk" DiCola, Brian Cork, Chad Peabody, Lee Hardesty, Nick Carapella, Matt Moilanan, Amanda Scheffler, and Jim O'Brien. Thanks folks for saving my life!!!
Now in my own defense, I just want to say that I fu#@ed up royally. I think that about covers it -OK? But someone mentioned that I had little experience and no jumps in the prior six months. Well I have been jumping the NRGB every year since 1994 and have 18 jumps off of it, I did a training session at the Perrine and got ten jumps in over Labor Day and I jumped an antennae in mid October and got 2 in at NRGB. So I had 29 BASE jumps coming to Moab, 13 of them within the prior three months. The first big mistake I made was not listening to Marta when she told me I didn't have enough experience to come to Moab. The second big mistake I made was not installing the deep brake setting on my lines like I had been told. The third mistake I made was jumping a Mojo with ZP top skin at Moab. It was so dry out there it just wouldn't pack up right - whereas we had humidity at the Perrine and it packed up OK. The fourth big mistake I made was not grabbing a hand full of suspension line and pulling something. My sight memory of the accident is totally different from what I saw from the top side video. I would have sworn on a stack of Bible that my canopy snapped open with a full 180 left while tossing me 180 right (it actually opened 90 left with a slow left turn). The video shows that it was 5 seconds from opening to impact with the wall - I know, time enough to eat lunch and then fix the problem!! My first view up was looking at a canopy over my head perfectly in line with my body except there was 360 degrees of line twist - all in the risers. I had had a similar opening at the Perrine and knew that I couldn't kick out of the line twists in time so I never even considered that. I had packed slider down so that was in the twist and I couldn't see any toggles. At the Perrine I had practiced rear risers turns and couldn't get the dog to move very fast. This is totally different than my Spectre 230 which turns very easily with rear riser input. I'm not weak - I work out with 60 pound barbells and thirty pd dumbbells and I'm in good shape. But I have to pull down with two hands to get that thing to move. So at the Perrine I decided that it was much easier and quicker to grab those Big Grab Toggles than to try to rear riser it - big mistake of course. My opening the day before was actually amost the same but without the line twists and I was just able to miss the wall by burying the right toggle. So I knew what difficulty I would have getting the thing to turn using suspension lines. And I couldn't even see the red steering lines - yes I know they were there but in that split second I couldn't see them. All the suspension lines terminated in one bunch at the top of the risers - it was hard to see what I should pull on. I figured if I started pulling on suspension lines I would just succeed in hitting the wall on an angle. I decided to hit the wall sqaurely and PLF (OK I know it was the wrong decision but I had two seconds left and that's what I went with). This actually worked because I wasn't hurt on initial impact. But obviously it was stupid because what happens after that??? Well my canopy collapsed at least partially and I was plummeting to my death - I was sure of it and just thought - "oh, crap". I didn't fall too far before my leg hit an outcropped rock (and broke my rt. fibula) and then my canopy snagged that rock and stopped my fall just 20 feet above the talus!!! (Praise the Lord!!) My right leg strap broke my pelvis in three places due to the force of the immmediate stoppage. I couldn't believe my eyes when Willim Gaddy free climbed up to me from the talus - he was putting his own life in jeopardy to save mine. Then Brian Cork rapelled down from the top and the two of them got me off that wall in 35 minutes. Then the wohole crew took me down the talus on a back board. The talus was so gnarly that I call this the Baton Death March (for the guys doing all the work - it wasn't that bad for me). That took over an hour. I hit the wall at 2:30 and was loaded in a helicopter at 5:45. I spent 15 days in the hospital and then six weeks on a hospital bed in my living room -but I'm just finishing re-hab and basically I have fully recovered with no ill affects. They advise me it will take a year for the bones to fully heal.
Well, if I BASE jump again I will be back at the Perrine practicing turns using suspension lines and steering lines ABOVE the risers - and that would be my advice to anyone not wanting to have this happen to them. Practicing rear riser turns would not have gotten me out of this situation. I will also have my deep brake settings tuned in and I won't be jumping that ZP top skin Mojo off anything but a bridge. I hope this helps someone somewhere and thanks again to everyone who was part of my rescue.
Marty MacDonald
Hellfish #2

I'm glad you're healing well, Marty. I'm sure we'll see you at the Perrine or Bridge Day. Take care.

 
>>So glad to hear hear you're doing better Marty, way to go that was fast!
Let me know the next time you're gonna be at the Perrine, I'll jump with ya any day.

Hi Marty

I was standing at the bottom right after my landing and saw you hit the cliff. When I reached the top of the talus Gaddy had just reached you and told me that you were alive but passing out all the time. When we carried you down the talus you were tough and didn't scream or complain even though you must have been in more pain than I can imagine.
As I'm from Norway I haven't seen you before or after your cliff strike and haven't had the chance to check up on you personally, but I've asked around and found out you were recovering and going to be fine.
It's nice to read your post and get it confirmed that you are back on your feet and that you have learned from the experience. We all have a lot to learn, and we never get too old for that.

Take care and good luck in the future :)

Hey thanks for posting that photo. That is the first view I have seen from the bottom. It is obvious that these canopies double up as a funeral shroud when you have a cliff strike - I was under it somewhere.
Marty

Hi Marty, glad to hear your doing well. Hope to see you again soon.

Here's a pic of your Thursday jump.

Have Fun!
Baz

Marty, I think you kick ass, and Ill will always jump with you too. I talked to your son and he said you guys will be out my way on Memorial. I am also so glad to hear you doing good. Hope to see you soon and take care.

Flying Hellfish #585

Right on Marty! Glad to hear your doing well.

>>Heya Oz! I'll be out there memorial day too, let's have a little reunion!
4-way!

Right on sucka, lets do it!!! Have you been jumping lately ? Ive been jumping alot, about every 3 days or so. weather permiting. Its good to live close.

>>I've been jumping a few of the local antenna's when I can, but not alot. Certainly not as much as you! You have like what, fifty more than the last time a I saw you?
Jump whore! (Yes I'm jealous, you live so close)

Thanks for all the encouraging words from everyone. I also got several private replies that really lifted my spirits. Yes I have my plane tickets for the Perrine over Memorial Day but my intentions are just to video my sons jumps and to drive the shuttle vehicle. Of course I'll have my BASE rig with me and it may need airing out.
Marty