Basejumper.com - archive

So I'm sitting at the dinner table with the family and I make a comment: "So, when I get into a fire department, I'm gonna buy myself a crotch rocket. Its gonna be my reward to myself for all my hard work." (I have always wanted one) My mom replies "No your not! “I'd rather you stick to jumping off a building than buy one of those damn things."

I thought that was hilarious!


Edited to add: Well....I should say crotch rockets aren't dangerous by themselves. Its moreso other crappy drivers that run into you that is dangerous.

now thats funny!

Your poll has a small flaw.

BASE is inherently more dangerous, but you're more likely to get killed riding your motorcycle (especially if you use it as your primary mode of transportation).

rl

 

True! Yea I won't use it as primary, just weekends and times when there are typically smaller amount of cars on the road. Like late night rides!! I am night owl so 2am cruises would be awesome.

Hmmm,...interesting thought! And how exactly could those idiots kill you or have you killed when on the load, but not on the multiple-way?

J.

if you ride on the weekends only make sure to ride SLOW, you do not need a lot of cars to crash, just a wet road and an old lady in a rusty van to pull right in front of you from a hidden driveway. if you want to ride fast you better live on the bike. i quit riding when i started jumping.

It's your responsibility as a motorcyclist NOT to put yourself into a situation where one of these morons will take you out. Take a Motorcycle Safety Foundation style training course if you've never taken one. They will teach you survival skills such as counter steering, emergency braking techniques, object avoidance (this includes driving over some objects even when traveling at highway speeds) and they will teach you where to position yourself in traffic for maximum visibility. Oh and intersections are the most dangerous places for motorcyclists, so enter them with extreme caution and care.

As to which one is more dangerous, BASE jumping or motorcycling? My vote is for the sport which draws people to show the least respect, the most complacient behaviour and the one where you're more likely to do while intoxicated. With that I can't vote in your poll because both disciplines are NOT safe and I do them both. But for you average Joe, they do take riding a motorcycle too lightly and many of them (despite what they think) don't know what they're doing since they don't know how to counter steer, have little emergency braking practice, usually place themselves in danger veering away from obstacles on the road they can easily ride over and have the faintest idea where to position themselves in traffic for maximum visibility. So I'm guessing for most of us BASE has the potential to be safer because most (not all) BASE jumpers do look at safety as an important issue before they jump.

Wet roads are NOT to be feared if you've got good tires, the right attitude and some experience. Icy roads? Now that's a different story.

I know twice as many dead riders as base jumpers if that makes any difference.

Thats a great Idea! Thats for that suggestion. I will definitly do that!

Coco

That's not a fair comparison since there are far more people riding motorcycles than there are people hucking themselves off of fixed objects.

I say there are no accidents in motorcycling (every incident could have been avoid with proper respect and training). The same can not be said for all skydiving/BASE jumps where the person did everything right and still died.

That's a pretty bold statement.

it's not bold, it's just plain ignorant assuming that a rider can control every aspect of the environment they're in.

yes, I ride and yes i've been in an accident.

You could do a weighted statistic. if you had exact numbers


I don't agree with that. Some shit you just can't avoid!

Give me some examples of incidents that you think aren't avoidable. If you let some other motorists collide with you (sure that motorists could have been at fault because they were not paying attention), you just didn't do everything in your power to avoid the collision.

Motorcyclists need to be proactive while they are on the road. I don't buy into this crap of it being the other guys fault. You let it happen to you. Don't let it happen to you. Know your limits, stay withing those limits. Know what counter steering is, practice it as well as emergency braking and for gods sake don't try a swerve over that pot hole or tire when it's much easier and safer to ride over it. And if you don't believe me that you can't ride over an object like a tire on the road, then you obviously haven't tried it. As part of my MSF training back in the 90s, my instructors had me riding over tires and wood crates to prove to myself that it can be done (not to mention the drills they put us through to enhance our counter steering and emergency braking skills).

Oh and there are two types of motorcyclists. Those who have crashed and those who have yet to crash. I fall into the crashed category. I low sided it going around a very tight mountain road and it was totally my fault. Too much testosterone and not enough respect for my limits as a motorcyclists.

Ignorance? Please spare me this crap ... take responsiblity for your actions. Be pro-active with your riding. If you're not willing to do this, then you really shouldn't be on the road. Sure there may be the extremely rare case where you did everything in your power and still came out on the short end of the stick. But are you the type of person to just sit back and let shit happen to you or are you pro-active type. Don't let that asshole kill you. Always stay within your limits, pay attention on the road and seek training if you haven't because you don't know shit if you just let things happen to you because you don't regularily practice counter steering and emergency braking. Know where to position yourself on the road for maximum visibility and don't go through intersections in a complacient manner.

what you're failing to realize (or are too stubborn to admit) is that there are two kinds of accidents, those that are your fault and those that are the other driver's fault.

until you've been in the latter of the two, you'll continue to ride around over-confident and cocky. i just hope you survive the encounter.

A guy I knew died a few years ago because a pickup truck made a left hand turn into him. He didn't hit the truck, the truck hit him broadside at a relatively high rate of speed. He had the right-of-way, not the guy in the truck.

Was it avoidable? I don't know. In my mind, I can't envision a scenario that would have saved him, short of not being on the bike at all.

Where I live (DeLand, which is less than 20 miles inland from Daytona), we have a lot of bike accidents. I read the accounts in the paper sometimes, and it just doesn't very often seem that the fault lies with the biker.

rl

WTF? How the fuck am I being over confident here? Spare me your bullshit. I'm telling people to be pro-active, to not let that other guy on the road kill you. Seek training, keep that training current. Once again you put yourself in that situation where you let the other guy try and kill you. This is not overconfidence and it's not all that difference from the training skydivers, BASE jumpers and pilots must routinely put themselves through.

I never said riding a motorcycle was safe. But it's 1000 times more dangerous for those who don't stay current with their emergency procedures (let alone those who don't even have the faintest idea as to what to do in an emergency).

Just because the light is green and I have the right of way over that guy making that left hand turn doesn't give me the go ahead to just enter that intersection without evaluation my speed and potential outs and where to position myself on the road to find that out. Be pro-active with your riding (and your jumping) and you may just be able to handle that emergency when it happens. Shit still may happen to those who are prepared, but at least they're ready for it. To just enter an intersection because the light is green is a mistake.

"I say there are no accidents in motorcycling "

That is not true at all. I have a buddy that was sitting at a stoplight and got rear-ended out of nowhere - two broken legs and an arm to boot. Completely unpreventable unless he had just stayed home for the day.

Okay you got me on that one.

It's kind of like being killed thanks to some sort of natural dissaster. Sometimes you can do everything right and still be killed. But for those people who think they don't need to pay attention or feel they don't need specialized safety training (because they've been riding for "x" number of years), there are playing with fire. It's amazing how many people don't know what counter steering is and amazing how many people have never practiced emergency braking. I guess they're just too cool to be thinking of asking someone else about the life saving emergency procedure and where to position themselves on the road for maximum visibility (fuck I'm starting to sound like a broken record here).

Let's go jumping since we know riding a motorcycle is NOT safe.

If
1. There were as many Basejumpers as there were bikers.

and

2. The percentage of idiot/unprepared Basejumpers was equivalent to the percentage of idiot/unprepared bikers.

Then I would think Base was a LOT more dangerous (as in: more likely to get you killed)

Yah C don't get me wrong - I'm with you about 99 percent of the time with bike riding. I have alot of acquaintances that have no business riding a bike, or any motorized vehicle for that matter. That has always been one thing that most of my base acquaintances have impressed me with is their proactive approach to controlling the elements whereas in all honesty, I see that very little in the two wheeled world... One of the many reasons I don't ride anymore myself. I also have poor luck on motorized vehicles, I'd prefer to just get out and jump (-:

I think I understand and agree with what you are trying to say. You have to have the attitude that everyone else is trying to kill you, doesn't see you, and if they do see you, won't yield anyway. You have to take it upon yourself to be prepared for anyone/everyone to cut you off, fail to yield, etc. If you have the attitude that it is your responsibility to avoid any and all accidents, you will be much more likely to do so than if you rely on others to do their fair share. Similar to flying a HP canopy. You take on the responsibility of avoiding collisions since slower canopies can;t get out of the way even if they see you coming.

Am I on-target?

Oh ya, BASE is much more dangerous.

Derek

Yes Derek that is exactly what I'm trying to say. Oh and how's that pocket rocket of yours? In case you didn't hear, I'm up in Canadia (spelled this way on purpose) now and unless I come down to visit with my bike, we won't be doing any evening riding like we did earlier this year.

The NBL has a safety policy where the first line was, "All accidents can be prevented". I don't think that is possible, but more can be prevented if you have that attitude. Same thing for bikes.


Excellent. Got more gear (full set), and replaced the turn signals with LED's and chopped the rear fender.


Ya, that sucks, you guys were great to ride with.

Derek

Getting rear ended, someone runs a red light or stop sign. Changes lanes and you are in thier blind spot and then change lanes as a fast rate and you can't avoid.

You can't see everything at once. Not everything in preventable.

Yes very hard to avoid.


You entered that intersection not paying attention to the traffic and not adjusting your speed and/or course based on the environment (did you even look to see what the other traffic was doing prior to entering the intersection?). Shit can still happen fast in this scenario, but an accident should not automatically be assumed if you're prepared for it.


What were you doing in their blind spot? This was your fault for being there and clearly shows that this rider did NOT know how to poisition themselves in traffic and likely felt they were too cool to take a safety course where they teach this sort of thing.


This is where counter steering can save your life.

You're being overconfident in that you're telling me that there is no such thing as an unavoidable motorcycle accident.


Now you're changing your story because before you said there was no such thing as an unavodiable accident. Training is completely different story and I'll agree it's a good thing to have. However, there is a difference between preparedness and omnipotence.



Just because you know what to do doesn't mean you'll have the time or space to do it. Practice doesn't always equal reailty and to ride around thinking no accident can happen to you because you're trained and prepared is just plain foolhardy.

lots of advice offered here.........I ride, but not at night any more......deer in the headlights means a lot more since living in the U.S. accidents happen....so they say...

I never said riding a motorcycle was safe. Nor is any form of jumping and any form of aviation. Ah shit, life is not safe. It's a terminal condition. But where's the harm in trying to stay ahead of the machine/wing you are piloting. Be pro-active!!!

Sorry, I wasn't clear. There was no light, it was a cut-through. We have a lot of four lane highways down here, and all of them have cut-throughs. People do u-turns and left turns and straight through the cut-through non-turns all the time. If one were to check each one, one would be required to stop every fifty feet. For example, the main highway from DeLand to Daytona has four lanes, regular cut-throughs and a speed limit of 65 miles per hour. It used to be that there was little traffic, so it wasn't a problem. Now, my town is booming, the roads are full, and Highway 92 is black death.

And, as I said, it wasn't that he hit the truck. The old guy in the truck didn't see him and broadsided him.

If every motorcycle accident were avoidable by the biker, then every motor vehicle accident would be avoidable. But sometimes it's just not possible to get out of the way.

rl

If I'm going 45 through an interesection and I have a green light and someone is not paying attention going the same speed through a red light, I'm sorry but there isn't crap you can do. That is unrealistic if you think you could avoid that. If you are stopped and it changes green you should be paying attention then but not much you can do if it has been green.




For blindspot. What if you are passing. And they wanna change lanes. Kinda hard to avoid too.

Wild animals are definitely more unpredictable that some unattentive motorist and therefore scare me more. I can prepare for the motorist not paying attention, It's much harder to prepare for that animal playing chicken with me on some road at night.

Oh and I killed a ground hog earlier this summer on my motorcycle on a highway. I saw him/her and said "don't do it". But he/she did it anyway and all that happened to me was ... well nothing happened to me. I hardly felt that critter as I rode over it with my wheels (I surely wasn't about to put my safety on the line trying to avoid some animal). Of course a deer/moose/cow etc, etc, etc is a different story.

Not true, you're in more control than what you think. Why did you enter that intersection? Weren't you looking at that other guy? Why didn't you slow down or speed up once you noticed they weren't paying attention? They were moving just as you were and that should have alerted you that maybe they weren't thinking what they were doing. Did you not think that it couldn't happen to you? If you're not prepared for this scenario each and everytime you enter an intersection, you will find yourself behind the power curve. Stay ahead of the machine and the environment you're in. At least when the shit hits the fan, you'll be prepared.

I know I'm taking a hard line with this "it's not an accident" stuff here. Yes the shit can hit the fan and sometimes it's just not going to be your day. But it's all about being pro-active. Don't hang out in the left lane or the left and/or middle track of the lane you're in when you see that opposing motorist slow down. Be prepared to slow down, speed up and turn (with counter steering techniques). It just may save your life. Be pro-active ... do your best to not let it happen to you.

dmcoco, sorry to lock your thread.

Everyone who wants to argue about what makes a good motorcycle rider, what is unsafe about it, what responsibilities a rider has, etc, etc, etc, please do so in the Bonfire, Speakers Corner, or perhaps a motorcycle forum.

Thanks!