Basejumper.com - archive

Well the time has come that I am going to have to invest in some BASE tools. I was on an A tonight and the winds were heavier than normal. Heavier than I have jumped before. It was also about 30-40 degree’s off the center. I decided to climb down because of the two factors. I then decided that I need to have a wind indicator because I’m not good a determining wind speed. Even with heavy winds and acceptable direction it would still be ncie to know my speeds!

Found this one:
http://www.basspro.com/...;cmCat=SearchResults

Thoughts? Too cheap? Will to work well?

I’m also going to have to get a laser distance finder for future scouting. They are pretty expensive so I was hoping to find what others are using and which are having good results. I would like the low light LED also so that makes it expensive. The only one I have seen with LL LED is this:
http://www.basspro.com/...;cmCat=SearchResults

What are other using??

Thanks
Coco

get a sunto observer...

Get a Triax T-Stake. It does everything else... it might tell wind speeds too.

Nice, Very nice!

Only problem with that is I ahve to be on the object. It would be nice to have a laser to sue both on and off an object for heights.

But thanks!

dont have to limit yourself 2 1 "tool" get them 1 at time and build up ur collection

Yea but I'm a poor biatch! At least until I get into a fire department!

might sell you my rangefinder....

I'm probably just gonna get the wind finder first i already know the height of the object we jump normally

i knwo a good site....

http://www.ambientweather.com/newkestrel1000.html

Kestrel 1000 Pocket Wind Meter
The new Kestrel wind meters feature a new ergonomic design, built in backlight, data hold function, and a sure-grip hardcase.
...Inventory Status...
Sku: 0851$64.00

cant beat that for all it offers...

This is just a polite question, but is it actually jumpers who arrive at an exitpoint and... "Hmm, a bit windy today for jumping... I'll just pull up my tool and check it... Ah, it's under my limits, c-ya"
Or... "The ground looks kind of close down there... Hmm, my laser tells me it is ok, okidoki then.. c-ya"

Because that feels for me like depending a tool telling me if something is doable or not. But prove me wrong or tell me othervise

No its more like, Ground winds said 5mph at 200 degrees and the middle of the sector is 180 I get up to 250 feet (where i'll be openning) andthe wind seam pretty strong. Would have been nice to know exact wind speed to make a smart decisions whether or not it is safe to jump. I'm not a human wind speed indicator so my guestimate probably won't be acurate. I can also measure to see if the wind is getting strong or weak and decide to wait a little while before i climb down.

Laser is to scout out new sites and to also determine high for an acurate delay. Be pretty dumb to think something is a certain height and jump it in the dark and not open in time. You use all of your senses along with tools to make the decision.

It may also help you tie some numbers to your jumps. You get up there and you're comfortable with the winds... it might be nice to know that they're 5mph. If you get up there and you're uncomfortable... know they're 12mph. Then that one time when you think you're comfortable but you aren't sure... and you get a 14mph reading... you'll back off.

If you are not happy with the winds, its simple you dont jump. If I am on top and not happy but the "BASE tool" tells me its only 2mph, then I aint going to jump anyway - I am not happy and that is all that I need to be told.

I think this is a wrong approach on "to jump / not to jump"

If you were on top and were not happy but someone else was and he jumps - would this mean you would then jump?

Dont trust anything / anyone to help make your own decision, your on your own when you step off...

Exactly. I have 3 A jumps at the moment and I have no idea what the winds have "exactly" been. But they were definitally stronger last night than they have ever been. Knowing the exact speed will help me determine what types of winds I am comfortable with.

Its also not just openning winds, it standing on the railing. I'd feel alot more comfortable if i'm not fighting heavy winds while I'm climbing up on the rail. Would hate to go off unstable as a mo fo!

if you dont have it yet,get yourself a rig

Laser
altiwatch
beers

what could posible go wrong?

Oh shit! Dude I almost forgot that! I probably need to get one of those first ey?

Or maybe I'll use my javelin with a a 9 cell sabre!?

A rig is only a requirement if you want to make more than one jump.

what you really need is a video cam and a stills cam..

I've got the video camera, it just doesn't work well at night. And day blazes at one of our towers is a terrible idea!!!

When I first started jumping, I showed up at a popular cliff in the desert Southwest United States. There were a number of jumpers there. One guy, who I did not know, walked out to the exit point, held up a little windmeter (I think anenometer is the technical name for the gizmo), and said "nope, over X mph (I don't remember the exact number), I'm not jumping."

It seemed to me to be a very good way to remove the human factors from his judgment decision. When he wasn't hungry to jump, or tired from hiking, or whatever, he decided how much wind he was willing to jump that object in. Then he stuck by that decision, no matter which of his friends tried to convince him that "the wind isn't so bad" or "it's just a gust" or "we'll jump in a lull" or "you don't want to hike back down, do you" or whatever.

I did get to see him jump later. He was (and probably still is) the most stable, in control BASE jumper I've ever seen. Everything about his jump was rock solid. Perfect body position, perfect pitch, watched the PC inflate and move to bridle stretch, returned to a perfect neutral position for deployment. In fact, I have the ground video of that jump and I still show it to students in my First Jump Course as an example of "what to do" in my "good and bad jumps" video segment.

Oh, and I later found out the jumpers name. It was Todd Shoebotham.

Thats pretty sweet! Todd is THE MAN!

We went to a building last night but it wasn't where I live and I'd never been to it before. I walked around it then moved to where I could look up at the most jumpable corner. What I do is picture someone standing there, jumping, getting line stretch, and then making whatever turns are needed to head home.

It's not very scientific but it gives me a basic go, no-go notion right off the bat without knowing exactly how high something is. My friend went up and jumped while I passed on it as the approach and street landing were downwind (not on these legs) and there is too much vehicle traffic in the street for my taste. There sure were a lot of people out driving at 3:00 AM.

I'm not totally anti-gizmo or gadget, I know they can be fun and interesting to fool around with, and besides I'm the moron who thought packing clamps were lame so many years ago. However, I really trust my eyeballs and the wind on my face, and that's a skill you aren’t born with it has to be developed. Might using these devices inhibit that ability?

NickD
BASE 194

interesting point...one for the flip side...how many times have you checked the winds either online or on the radio/tv and said...ooooh ten mph...too windy when if you had a "tool" and checked the winds at your local you might have been pleasantly surprised..and maybe made a jump...tools shouldnt be used for oh its only 8 mph they should be for is it really ten mph?
.

am I the only one that thinks this statement is somewhat wrong?

im whith Sean on that one..
but then again im not good at #´s and telling me that the wind is blowing xmph will only give me a clue,ill need to smell the object and the air.. then ill make a dessision whether ill jump or not..
that said i have jumped in too much wind and feel good about it and climbed down in 0 wind as it didnt feel right.. no gadget can tell me that..

exactly

exactly (just like I said previously)

 

I do this every time I look at an object. I'm glad I'm not the only one.

I think he's saying that it gives him the ability to quantify the winds he is uncomfortable with. That means that in the future, he'll be better able to discuss those winds with other jumpers, and to check weather reports to know if it's even worthwhile to head out to the object.

Nope, can't say i do and i know what you mean. Think most of the issues about gizmoz has been talked about before, and they will be again. As long as we use it as a tool and a factor for the final dessision it will be valuable. So, without tools i'm throwing papertowels from A's, watching the flags from B's, some trees/bush on S and mostly wather from the E's + listening the little devil inside...

I remember me and a friend at a local cliff bringing some line to find out how tal(or)low the thingy really was. We did some fishing from the exit, tied a knot and brought the result back to our labaratory after the jump for accurate length. We thought about 80m and jumped it like it would be, the result was more like 63m. Conclusion; from now on we could do 80m stuff from 60m

JB out (Shit, my spelling is smelling - i blame the keyboard... It's norwegian...)

I actually bought an anemometer for this very reason, and this was after I had 200 BASE jumps already. I wanted to be able to quantify wind speed. Up until that point, the only thing we had going was, "Well, the wind doesn't feel too bad. Wait there's a gust. Now it's not bad... hmmm..."

In practice, the thing always ended up staying in the car and never actually made it to an exit point.

Later it started to malfunction so I took it back to REI and traded it back in towards a new pair of hiking boots.

Now I'm back to making educated guesses.

Who knows...

I have it on good authority that the T-stake does work as a wind gauge of sorts--Basically, hold it up to the wind, and if the bottle opener whistles, don't jump.

And remember--it's never the wrong decision to walk down. If you're not comfortable, winds or not--save your packjob and ground crew. No shame in keeping yourself alive.

pope

Dwyer makes a portable hand-held wind meter that sells for $21. I used one for an air speed indicator mounted to a home built gyrocopter many years ago. I had nothing to compare it against for accuracy, but it seemed to work quite well.

http://www.dwyer-inst.com

Clicky.

Yea that’s what I'm getting at. I'm not going to go up and just a use a tool say cool I’m jumping if they are under a certain level. I’m gonna use my brain too. An example of this is on Nov 1st,last time I climbed. I got up to 250 and the winds felt like they were blowing harder than I have previously been jumping and with the wind direction about 25-30 degrees off center I wasn’t really sure what I wanted to do. I’m not that good at determine xmph winds so after using my brain to decide whether I was fine right off the bat or whether I’d like some other sources of input, I could use a wind meter to get the exact wind. If I’m just off and the winds are normal to what I have been jumping then I can use that and my previous feelings to make a decision. Then if I am still feeling negative about the jump regardless of whether the winds are normal or heavier I can know for the future that at Xmph and X degrees I wasn’t comfortable. As my experience gets better that may change but its nice to have a reference for what I jump in and what I don’t. Different conditions are gonna change my decisions too. If the winds are high and going right down the middle, I’d be fine for a jump, but not crazy high and a good deal off center.

Am I explaining this right? Pretty much after I make a decision on my comfort level with conditions using my head, I can use tools to log the exact wind speeds just to have a reference to the types of conditions I normal feel comfortable with. Winds and direction combined.

Plus when I use VGC I can call a buddy and talk it over with him too. And actually did that too the last time I climbed. I called my buddy and had him check the conditions again on the net to see if there was a sudden change or if reports were just different. If I had exact wind speed, (he’s not there to feel it), he can give me his feelings also.

As for the laser, Nick, that’s awesome that you can do that but I personally don’t think I’d be able to make accurate height determinations in that manner with my current experience level. Now here again….If I do as you say and try to make a picture, take a guess at the height, then on top of the object I can laser it and see how close my estimates are. This can train me at making better determination without the laser

I think tools like wind meters and laser can be very useful if used in the right way. I think both the human and electronic factors and benefit each other!

I'd do that regardless of having a wind meter. Thats how I assess direction.

Is it that simple! Awesome I gotta get me one of those!


Heck yea! I'm 4 for 7 On the A i climbed the other day. CLimbing is great exersice. I don't mind climbing down.

I agree, only that I think it's better to learn the former before implementing the latter. In the end, it's the human making the jump, not the tool.
pope

I have a hand held anemometer and use it in the same manner.

It occupies so little room that I often forget I have it and it cost so little that I don't care if it gets damaged.

I don't think it reports gusts accurately and it's useless at quantifying additional risk associated with wind direction in relation to hazards and sources of turbulence. It's batteries eventually fail.

All it does is give an indication of the average wind speed.

But that is the good thing about it:
it's never scared,
it's never gagging to jump,
it doesn't care what I may have put into getting to an exit point, or what social function I've given up to be there.

ha ha it only made a few months of work then..he he

Yeah, you were there when I bought it. It seemed pretty cool at the time didn't it? Oh well.

sure did,now im happy that i didnt got one myself....

<<<< I really trust my eyeballs and the wind on my face, and that's a skill you aren’t born with it has to be developed. Might using these devices inhibit that ability? >>>>

Nick,

Surely you don't advocate acquiring these skills through trial and error if serious errors can be avoided in the process?

An interesting side note:

Back in the day, when "First Jump Courses" were months long and involved 50 or 60 jumps and multiple objects, I made a student of mine actually practice eyeballing object altitude, and then comparing with the altitude we determined with a laser. I got the idea from a CHP I talked to who said that most of the CHP patrolmen were able to estimate a vehicle's speed within 5 mph of the radar gun reading--and that he had once had a judge take him out to a busy street and call out vehicle speeds while the judge used a radar gun, to prove it.

I heard the same thing, only it was for CHP Motorcycle Patrolmen only--and it stands up in court.
pope

<<<< I don't think it reports gusts accurately and it's useless at quantifying additional risk associated with wind direction in relation to hazards and sources of turbulence. It's batteries eventually fail.

All it does is give an indication of the average wind speed. >>>>

For what its worth the Dwyer Wind Meter I mentioned in my previous post is a 100% mechanical low tech device. It has no batteries to run down and registers wind velocity including gusts in real time. Note that I used it as an air speed indicator and it was always facing in the right direction to monitor forward airspeed mounted on my gyrocopter. I'm not sure how well it would work as a hand-held wind meter, but that is what it was designed for.

Found a really good looking Wind Meter if anyone else was interested. Wasn't really advertised on any other website and then I found it on http://www.ambientweather.com.

It’s got the best of everything and nothing you don’t need. All the wind speed necessities, MPH reading, altitude, and a backlight for seeing at night. Its not to expensive either.

http://www.ambientweather.com/ke25nivipowe.html

i already post that link earlier in this thread bro....

http://www.dropzone.com/...post=1911171#1911171

lol Yea but not the meter I was talking about.

will show you mine next time... i have the kestrel 2000