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I know this has been discussed before but I couldn't find a good thread that focused directly on it (could be my bad search techniques).

I've talked to several different people lately that are showing an interest in getting into BASE or just doing a single jump once in their life. These are all people with a lot of skydives (over 1K at least). I personally am in no position to mentor someone since I have under 50 jumps myself and have only jumped S & As but I do have my own opinion on what's the "safer" way to start. I notice that some jumpers with a lot more experience than me have a different opinion.

Personally, I always thought a legal span would be the best way to start. My reasons for thinking this are that the one legal span we have here is over water and has a nice big landing area. Plus it's a span, meaning there's nothing to hit if you have an off-heading. I'm not saying you can't get hurt there. We all know how dangerous this sport is. It just seems like a much safer environment.

After talking to some others recently though, I've noticed a good amount of more experienced jumpers say that the big walls in Norway are the best way to go to start. I can understand having more time to track and to clear any problems being good but I always considered having the wall next to you would be a lot more dangerous than having nothing next to you, even if you did have a lot more time to "fix" a problem.

Anyway, I was hoping to get a good friendly discussion going on this weighing the pros and cons of both. I have a lot of respect for you guys (most of you anyway ) and I was just curious to find out what you more knowledgeable and experienced people think about it.



(Please note, I strongly urge anyone I talk to about it to take a FJC no matter where their first jump is along with reading Tom's "Getting into BASE", etc.)

Experienced skydivers or experienced BASE jumpers? I'm having a hard time believing there would be a BASE jumper saying such a thing.

There is no possible way a first jump off a bigwall is safer than a first PCA of the Perrine.

Experienced BASE jumpers.

Please define "experienced BASE jumpers" and also the type of drug they were under when they came out with the statement.

PS
For reference my very first BASE was off a terminal wall and in retrospect was a very stupid idea but hey I had a whole good 40something skydives.

LOL!

Ok, by experienced I mean people with a lot more jumps than me. I don't know exactly how many jumps. Sorry.

Drug of choice is usually just alcohol as far as I know.

I have heard this from more than just one person at different times. One person has been skydiving and BASE jumping for at least 10 years. That's why I was asking on here. It wasn't just one comment by one person.

In my opinion its a no brainer. Twin Falls or BD must surely be the 2 safest spots (at least in the states) to do your first BASE jump, preferrably after a 1st jump course.
A big wall is a bad place to start given that the first 3 to 5 seconds of a jump is the crucial bit! There have been at least a few fatalities off big walls that may have been avoided had the individuals had some previous experience on a safer object - ie - spans!


PS - Jaap , it was a pleasure to meet you at BD this year. My wife hasn't shut up about you since - Is there something I should know about??!!

Dave

The pleasure was all mine... She's probably still talking about me because when you we're busy stinking up your bed with those humongous farts, me and Kjieran were getting it on while Megan was filming.

Don't sell that Vision brother! It's too beautiful. Looking forward to a visit to Boston, or maybe you guys should come visit Vancouver!

Regardless of their number of jumps: claiming that a big wall is safer than TF automatically excludes one from "experienced" list.

bsbd!

Yuri.

The pleasure was all mine... She's probably still talking about me because when you we're busy stinking up your bed with those humongous farts, me and Kjieran were getting it on while Megan was filming.

Don't sell that Vision brother! It's too beautiful. Looking forward to a visit to Boston, or maybe you guys should come visit Vancouver!
Jaap, you whore Kieran was supposed to be saving himself for his wedding nite this december. Was it consensual or date-rape???

The Vision stays!!

The single jump type would be best at BD IMHO. Impact doesn´t differentiate on the number of skydives the jumper has. I saw 2 jumpers impact in Norway within a coupla meters of the same spot. One had 2800 skydives and the other had 200. Which was the better jumper? They both made the same errors and had the same outcome. Most notably was that they took too long trying to regain stability. The notion that big walls are safer only apply to big wall jumpers who are trackmasters. No one else.
take care,
space

National Geographic Extreme yesterday had a dude doing his 1st BASE jump off a large waterfall in Venezuela.

On exit he immediately went head down, deployed unstable, opened into line twists which he couldn't kick out of in time, landed in the talus and broke his leg.

Bet he wished he was PCA'd off a legal span his first time...

Waaaay back in the olden times there was the common misconception that a big wall was just a foot launched skydive. Or so many jumpers thought until there started to be fatalities from them. (Including some of the best and brightest) We're talking back in the early to mid eighties here. Some, with no more reecent frame of reference, might still hold to this belief but time has proven it wrong in spades!

The bridge would be a far better way to get an introduction. Note that I didn't mention anything about safe or safer or the likes.

Exactly how much crack did these "experienced" jumpers smoke before your conversation? Anyone who's stood at the exit point of a big wall and the board at the Potato Bridge will tell you what an intense experience your first big wall is. Properly transitioning from dead air to terminal has one of the biggest learning curves of anything in BASE. Starting with that is a horrible idea.

To put this into perspective;

imagine a reasonably good looking span with a wide soft landing i.e. water or snow, 60-80 meters high. (shouldn't be to hard..) Throw in a lifevest and a boat, and I put my money on any wuffo surviving a pca'd jump. He could be asleep and i would still go for the bet. Hell, if drowning is not a possibility, he could be handcuffed and sedated and i'm pretty sure I'd get my money back after a couple of rounds. (as long as the drugs are handled by pros...)



Now, imagine a cuffed, sedated wuffo off of a bigwall...





I'm deeply hurt...

Hi,

Ha ha, you wish dutchboy ! theres not enough alcohol in the world to get me that trashed ....

just got back to work this morning, I'd forgotten how much the real world sucks ....

and as for the originial posting - start off on a bridge & hit the water. I just did my first two base jumps last saturday on bridge day. Theres enough going on in your first base jump without having to worry about a quarter of a billion tons of cliff a couple of inches behind you.

klr

I always thought first BASE was best with a Wingsuit (no prior experience), big wall, and a few hits of acid. Then it may not be a solo either because you’ll be tracking with some flying penguins or maybe even Big Bird! That’s the best way to go!

On a serious note, Yea TF or BD would be my picks for first BASE. I did mine at BD last year and glad I did cause I went way head low! You go where you look! (at least at first)

You all are pretty much confirming what I was thinking. I keep trying to explain this myself but sometimes it's difficult when I'm talking to a really good skydiver. Say someone with more than double my skydives or more. They're really good at everthing, including tracking, but it's so much different tracking in dead air. I'm trying not to dis their skills or anything. I could learn a lot from them. I thought maybe I was just being a paranoid wuss or something.

Anyway, thanks for your input.

Hey Kieran,

Congrats on the first few jumps ! Beer Beer Beer

Patrice.

Beer is for skydiving, mate.

Yeah man ,Congrats on your first BASE jump , and on your first nudie sauce romp with Jaap

The implication that the 1st jump course in Norway is ultra risky is wrong. I did my first jumps there. It was the best experience of my life bar none.
If you have the requisite number of skydives (250+ I believe), pay attention to the excellent tutelage you get from the instructors at the Base Klubb, do enough practice exits on the pendulator then you'll be prepared. Many, many people have done first jump courses there. (and lived)
IMHO The intensity of the whole jumping in Norway experience wins hands down over falling off a bridge.

If you want to do it don't be put off.

Someone saying a big wall is okay for a first BASE jump because they did it that way only shows an overall lack of BASE knowledge.

Just from a numbers standpoint, take another look at the Fatality List. There are more than a few 1st BASE/cliff jumps gone bad and some of these are done by very experienced skydivers. Most of them, admittedly occurred prior to the object specific first jump courses of today, but one did happen to a woman who took a well thought of course and then she hit the wall in freefall anyway.

To this point most fatalities still seem to involve hitting the object just jumped from, mostly under canopy, but sometimes also in freefall.

Yes, it's very possible to make a big wall jump a first BASE jump. Just look at the mountain in South America, or all the first jumps made at El Cap. But it doesn't pass the "relative" test. If it were my son or daughter there's no way a wall, or any "hard" object, would be used for a first BASE jump.

Mentors should always remember that everyone is someone's son or daughter . . .

I don’t like the term "safe BASE jump" as there's really no such animal, but a span with a water landing option is as close to "less dangerous" as you can get.

NickD
BASE 194

I don't believe anyone was trying to imply that.

I think the discussion was about the relative risks involved in two potential first jump experiences. Neither is (or has been painted as) "ultra risky". That's a term I'd reserve for things like low buildings, in bad conditions, at night.

Making a judgment that one way or another is more risky than some other way does not imply that either of them is absolutely safe, or that either is ultra risky.

Hi Paddy,

Cheers man ! thanks. Saw your wingsuit vids from, Kjerag - yourself & luke got some excellent footage
there.

One day ......

klr

I also did my first jump at the cliff...
I loved every minute of it because everything went right...

now switching to the "do what i say don't do what i do" phase:

If something was to go wrong on your first few jumps, I'm guessing that the span with very little surface to hit and some water underneath would be a hell of a lot better.

Sure you can go to a big wall, do your first few jumps there and survive. But you should try to reduce the risks as much as you can.

I was told that before you decide to jump you should think of everything that could go wrong and see if you feel ok to deal with every situation. Being on a bridge sure reduces the amount of things to think about...

Tom, Brandy it is then...

Later,
P.

Personally, I refused to PCA my first jump.

I went off TF hand held my first time, so I could experience a freefall, and because I would rather deploy with two seconds of freefall than None!

It all depends on the person. I haven't done a PCA and don't really plan to. If I'm going to hike an hour for a cliff in moab, or 20 minutes up the hill in TF I want two or three seconds!

Cya

I went hand held on my first jump. In my opinion, it's a bad idea.

If you blow your first exit, and end up head low (or head down), there is some potential for serious problems.




I disagree. Some of it depends on the object. I don't think very much of it is dependent on the student. On a first jump, you really don't know what's going to happen. I've had students I thought would be great, who totally froze up and blew the first jump. I've also had students I was concerned about who did very well.

Just because one person gets lucky doesn't mean it's a good decision.




This is the kind of attitude that gets people killed. It's exactly the same kind of attitude as "if I flew all the way to Norway, I'm going to jump no matter what, even if conditions are terrible!"

Compared with being able to walk for a couple months, or compared with having the rest of your life, what are those 20 minutes worth? Heck, you'll spend more time than that packing for the jump.

Patience is a virtue in BASE even more than in most other things.

huh?

I like beers after a BASE aswell besides if the guy insist buying beer let him.. but the rule in BASE is that theres no rules besides having fun..(basicly)