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that do BASE?

I've done a few helicopter jumps as well as a balloon jumps and understand the adrenalin rush of BASE somewhat (I'm ALL OVER IT!)..but I dont understand why there aren't more females drawn to BASE. Just curious. I can't wait to do my first BASE jump....

You obviously haven't been to Houston...

I want female LEADERS in BASE to mentor me...and it seems as though there aren't many. How do I find them? Do I need to fly to Houston Zennie? Do you or other females frequent Perrine? I might just have to make that trip soon... I'd like to do Bridge Day but from what I understand, it's already full and I've seen the lil rocky landing area and from what I understand there is "take the water"..I'm not too keen on that as my best option.

your best option is land on dry ground, dont fuck up, get stoked, pack up, and scramble to the top for another, all in the rain and 40 degree air.. the water is cold...

Marta at Apexbase dot com should be able to help you out . She has been a pioneer in the sport for many years introducing many ideas, products, and people to the sport. (Including myself........... as well as my girlfriend this last weekend).
I've attached a photo of her and Jimmy P hucking my girl off this weekend. 7 jumps , 3 PCA, and 4 PC in Hand.
They run a great course many times during the year. Any-time is a good time to make your first jump.

Hi J...I remember you and your g/f from when I lived in CO (she's beautiful!)..and your restaurant..how generous you were to skydivers with the Margs and Tequila Certainly..sounds as though I need to head back to the Perrine and do a FJC and PCA

Sure. Brit will teach you and you can stay at my place.

Joking aside, I'll echo Jay and say if you realy want to learn the fundamentals from a female jumper with high stature, definitely take the Apex FJC with Marta. She's one of the original BASE pioneers and one of the nicest people on the face of the planet.

I know of a couple of folks down in Florida who you could hook up with afterward.

Actually, I find it interesting that the proportion of leading female BASE jumpers actually seems higher than the overall proportion of female jumpers.



Why not just find them and ask? That's what everyone else does, too, so you're in good company.

I'm curious as to why you want a leader in the sport to mentor you? Usually, that's not a characteristic that has a lot to do with mentoring. I'd look for a mentor who is geographically close, knowledgeable, experienced, and reasonably connected with other jumpers, as well as a good teacher. There are plenty of people who meet those criteria, but are not leaders in the sport. It seems like you are unnecessarily restricting your options.

It does not surprise me at all.

.... There are at least 30.... hm... 35... more than 35 I know, heard about or have jumped with...)))
... 6 more girls started BASE in the past two years in my country -- 9 total now....
Not that much but...

Female leader as a mentor.... hm... wanna be a super-chick?

There will be one more soon. Here it's legal and I'm in the middle of organizing my first jump

lets see faces

i think the trend by female BASEjumpers goes back to skydiving.. perhaps you see alot of girls skydive but i bet you see more guys...

Also girls has this.. hmm "mother-instinct" and most peope wont acsept the risk tothem self of family,i dunno if im right i just think so...

 

yes you got some of my point,but besides about the world think about females doing highrisk sports/hobbyes they might think that thourght them self first and more..

I simply dont think most femals think its worth the risk...

I understand as a father of 2 nice kids and husban to my wife and "adult" to her 2 kids... I think of that risk before each jump...

 

Careful abbie Linda reads this stuff to and she knows where live.

I would have to agree with Faber as to why not as many females BASE jump as males. Women in general are not as inclined to take "unneccessary" risks.
However, as our sport grows, so does the proportion of female jumpers. Chad told me about his last trip to Twin and I was surprised to find out how many women there were.

I don't think it's the adrenaline rush that drives most to BASE jump. I know those jumpers are out there, but jumping your local object time and time again, the adrenaline can wear out and what do you have left?

There are talented jumpers out there with a lot to offer a new student, who are not leaders in the community (as Tom said). I can understand wanting a female mentor, but if you can't find one, just make sure there is no sexual interest between you and your mentor. Tom has a good article all about why.

just figure out a way to do a more crazy jump than before..it will keep coming i promise

Poor Chad you should have told before i tryed your bekini on

As Katie said,most of my post is just bull sh!t,atleast the bekini part

Possibly an insight as to why there are so few female jumpers would be to ask currently jumping females why there are so few females making pure solos. If this is a male dominated sport, we may presume (obviously) that more men are attracted to the sport then women, as I dont believe "discrimination" to be a contributing factor (unfortunately men are eager to teach women base, to show off, to get laid, to feel important, to establish male hierarchies of reproductive prowess)

If more men are attracted to the sport because it interests them, then base is fundamentally "male", however you would define that. The elements of Base appeals more to the male mind. Base incorporates physical and mental challenge contained almost entirely internally,Loner Nomad; it is a very visual sport and its reward has strong visual components. Men supposedly are more "visual" and "spacial" then women. They are less gregarious and are noted wanderers.They think as individuals where women are noted as thinking in groups. Whether true or not, whether innate or only cultural, women are noted as "verbal", "social", and are far more rooted far earlier. Base is not a "talky" sport, although admittedly at the exit point, the social world (even with strangers) becomes curiously intimate and singular.

As interesting would be the question, are the women who base jump attracted to it because they are more "male" than their "motherly" counterparts? Higher testosterone levels? Base filters the general population, why would it not also filter sub elements within the larger social system.

Pure solos are a masculine accentuation of a masculine sport. It is easier to ask real base females this "solo" question and get an informed insider answer, than it would be to ask none jumping females why they dont base jump. The rarefaction or filtering should produce an homogeneity or consensus sufficient for an insight or an answer.




Base 758

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xsig x

This question is really easy to answer with regards to the main reasons why more women don't base jump and it has nothing directly to do with the archiac crap about women being more social and men more logical. It's about expendible income and exposure. If more women had more money (still it's 70 cents to the man's dollar for the same job) and more exposure the the sport, there would be more base jumping women. Think about it like this, what if we change the group to say, people of african or latino descent? Is there fewer male latino jumpers because latinos are less logical and 'solo/wandering' oriented than white men? If I posted that I'd get totally ripped for being a racist and yet nobody made that connection and spoke up while there was a lot of garble about women tending to be this or that way and men tending to be another. It's about expendible income (which certianly does lead to women having to spend a greater percentage on family oriented stuff) and exposure/social acceptance.

not a flame, but in my group of nonjumping friends there is a huge diversity of ethnic and income backrounds. Most off the non-anglo saxon background put it as "crazy white people" or something along those lines. they are not being racist, but just objervational about risk takers in general. Of course there are many people from all backrounds that take risks for their pleasure, but the caucasian race seems to have a lot of us crazy white people in it.

K,

If you promise to have sex with me instead of my brother, I'll take you on your first jump. PM me for graphic details.

Love,
Peter

Welcome, and good luck!

The women I know in BASE are those that have chosen to NOT have children. I can't think of a single BASE jumping female that has kids.

That being said, my question is where are you? There are women in the sport that are ready, willing and able to mentor you....you just need to be geographically close to make it feasible.

Have fun, be safe, and soft landings...
K

Granted she may not be jumping a who;e lot, but Jill Salo is a BASE jumping mother.

I can think about one, she has two kids and her husband is BASE jumping as well.

Jul.

Fetal testosterone levels. [Edited to add link.]

The more exposure to testosterone during a critical period of fetal development, the more "male-minded" the fetus becomes.

Simon Baron-Cohen, the director of the Autism Research Centre in Cambridge has done a fair amount of research on the subject. He ultimately links "the extreme male brain" to autism.

Two pop science books that examine the differences between male and female brains, including a short quiz to determine the male or femaleness of ones own brain, were written by Allan and Barbara Pease: Why Men Don't Listen and Women Can't Read Maps and Why Men Can Only Do One Thing at Time...And Women Never Stop Talking.

Or you can just take the AQ Test. [Edited to add: Be prepared to hand score it. It's old, and the scoring function appears not to work.]

Your turn, Nitro.

rl

This statement is false. It is a part of mid 70's feminist rhetoric which stilted numbers to falsely represent income/job statistics. Compiled by Feminist think tanks, the misrepresentation is this: On the surface the statistics appear to say that "men and women working the same job are not paid the same" but what the research actually says is "that men and women working COMPARABLE jobs are not paid the same. The emotive power of the first version overwhelmed any correction after the fact, because this was a political tactic when this issue was very hot. Im old enough to remember this time, and did some research on it in college for graduate school.

Feminists semi arbitrarily determined that two different jobs were the "same" and should be paid the same, so they would compare female teacher with male cook, male business manager with daycare supervisor and the like odd comparisons, and then scream about the inequity. There was a Stanford-developed social strategy loosely grouped under the title "the lie that tells the truth". When applied to politics this kind of media political manipulation was the result. At the time, it worked because women were fed-up with problems and men hadnt adapted to the social change yet. Political concerns developed just the right data to really accelerate reform. But it is still not true; the real problem was that women were encountering great resistance to becoming more than just wives and mothers and knew it was unfair, and needed radical sociopolitical strategies to force legal measures and social reform.

In a nut shell, it has been illegal to pay men and women different pay in the same exact job for some time, so women today working as engineers with the same job and seniority and rank must be and are paid the same as the male workers at that same company.

Admittedly, my original post is un-organized and overly inclusive, and does show a social bias; but science has proven physical differences in the nervous system and behaviors of men and women. Additionally, the question of why more men are in base is unanswerable in this forum, but this, I think, is NOT due to any kind of discrimination.


BASE 758


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xsig x

I've snipped most of your reply, because it is largely on-target as to the present day.

Back then, however, things were different. Rabid feminism gets my goat, and some of those who represented the "feminist movement" clearly were (and remain) man-haters, but that doesn't change the fact that it wasn't just "comparable jobs." For example, there were a lot of male teachers in those years (it was good for a draft deferment, and there were many men who availed themselves of the opportunity to avoid Vietnam), and the pay scales were different. In addition, there were jobs that women do routinely now that they weren't even considered for then.

A lot has changed. I have the misfortune of being old enough to remember it rather than just reading about it.

rl

It seems like a true but there are some exceptions. I know at least one very active BASEjumping girl -- the real basejumper) -- who has a son.

About the solos -- I've done a dozen of solos in the beginning, but only from the regular objects. Then was a pediod then solos seemed too scary for me. Now it's not interesting for me any more. But I'm sure that solos will be back in my life sometime.

Actually, Rhonda, at the time of my research the data was very specific. Jobs were comparable, not exact. While feminists have had the time to hunt down the harder to find example to exactly illustrate their point, at the time they preferred to shotgun the issue with more massive amounts of data through the very false comparison of "similar" jobs, using the "advanced" tactic of "the lie that tells the truth" a sociopolitical pseudo scientific tool which is an extension of "the end justifies the means". A wrongful philosophy in my opinion.

I have no doubt that the rabid feminists have since been forced to clean up their statistics, and find more factual examples, but I imagine there are still statistical problems with the data. For example, it is fallacious to compare male teachers in a private school in New York City with female public teachers in Littleton, Iowa. Different market, different school district, different demand, different state...but I have no doubt that if challenged on comparable jobs, feminist leaders would minimally modify their comparisons to continue to produce figures favorable to their cause. They would be willing to overlook the subtleties of truth in pursuit of their ends: quick and dirty data overly inflated and exaggerated to draw emotive and viceral responses. Thats not to say that inequities dont and didnt exist, it is to say that the data that I personally saw and researched, specifically advanced by feminist proponents at the time of my work, was falsely comparing "similar" jobs, female nurse with male construction worker. I may not, perhaps, be as young as you suppose...

Base is equally accessible to the sexes in the present day, which is what is being discussed. Money doesnt keep them out. Discrimination doesnt keep them out. I dont keep them out. They choose not to base in greater numbers than men because they either have less interest in it, or have more to lose than men. Either way, the issue is choice, women need only take responsibility for their own lives and their own happiness without blaming others for choices which are now theirs.

Base 758

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xsig x

Dennis, are we talking about the 70s or are we talking about now? It seems a little blurry to me.

As to teachers, I was talking about the payscales where I went to school in the 60s and 70s (I graduated highschool in '76). The men made more than the women, and most of the women had been teaching longer.

If you're talking about now, I don't think there is much issue of pay inequity except in certain backwater towns, such as the one in which I currently live.

So if you're talking about the 70s, and earlier, it was a lot different. But no one was basejumping then, so the conditions then don't apply to 2005. If you're talking about the thirty years in between then and now, it's just like anything else--you have to do it by cases. Payscales equalized in some areas more quickly than others. And you'll never be able to make a case using small businesses, because unlike corporate environments, the payscales reflect the value of individual employees to the owner. I've worked in lawfirms where I was paid more than the associates; I also worked in a lawfirm where I was paid about the same as the "paralegal" with the 9th grade education (barely) who was hired straight from a strip club because my boss had lost his mind.

Anyway, you seem pretty passionate there at the end, but I'm almost certain it wasn't a woman who pointed to the possibility of economic inequity as a reason for women not basejumping. And my qualified disagreement with the facts you cite has nothing to do with "women need[ing] only take responsibility for their own lives and their own happiness without blaming others for choices which are now theirs." That was a real leap, Dennis, and a little insulting, particularly since the poster who made the assertion was male not female.

Anyway, I don't agree that disposable income is the issue, because there are a lot of women skydiving and engaging in other risky and expensive ventures--one such being the bearing of children. Ever looked a maternal mortality rates? They'll give basejumping a run for the money riskwise. Nor do I agree it has so much to do with children, because I know plenty of women with children who skydive--I've even known some to continue jumping in the early months of pregnancy--and I made my only basejumps when my daughter was not quite a teenager.

The reason lies elsewhere. Perhaps if we consider it without reference to old resentments, we'll figure it out.

rl

I'll probably get hell for saying this, but I discussed this with a base jumping friend of mine a while back. One thing mentioned that I heavily agreed upon was the role the canopy plays when base jumping. From what I've seen and *IMO*, the male gender has a better understanding of landing and flying them from an earlier start even in skydiving. I know a lot of female jumpers who have had problems standing up a single landing until over 200 jumps (Yes, I know that is not the case for all). Also, I see more girls/women using the canopy as just a means to get to the ground instead of really attempting to learn its characterists moreso than men. Yes, I know this is in relation to skydiving, but I personally see it linked for this reason. I personally am not base jumping anymore, for the time being, due largely to the fact that I feel I could use a lot more canopy knowledge and training.



Now, my disclaimer: In no way am I intending to make any sort of anti/female - sexist statement with this post, and I'm sorry if any of you take it that way.



*Edited to add: This post is in response to reading the entire thread and is not directed towards any person in general.

*Edited again to add: I have even had several guys tell me they don't/won't get into base because of the canopy factor. It pushes some men away as well.

"Dennis, are we talking about the 70s or are we talking about now? It seems a little blurry to me. "

Um. We're talking about basejumping, dear. Focus!

"As to teachers, I was talking about the payscales where I went to school in the 60s and 70s (I graduated highschool in '76). The men made more than the women, and most of the women had been teaching longer. "

Then this situation was heinously inequitous, wrong, and likely illegal unless gender discrimination laws were not in effect yet. I believe the logic
behind such inequities were that men had families to support and women were working "for fun". At the time, Im sure this was logical to the old culture which had existed for years...but its time had ended.

Sadly, you are also revisionist in your perspective of history. You side-step the "comparable work" issue completely as though I made it up, likely because this reality (as a political methodology) is an embarrassment to the women's movement in its outrageous scholarship and aggressive stance. Yes there were real pay inequities, but yes the comparable work tactic was used, and was in play. You give personal examples. Not accredited national studies. Nationally, feminists may have been overeager in pressing their agenda NOW (pun intended) rather than waiting for more respectable studies. The study that I mentioned was an "official" "proof". The lie that tells the truth. I saw it with my own eyes. You offer no clever clicky with an alternative respectable study to demonstrate that no such "comparable work" study existed or was in play during my time or in my experience. Or that your version of respectability existed instead.

Also you err, by arguing against positions that I neither support nor defend, and havent offered here; why would you expect me to defend myself from or make comment upon some of your paragraphs? If you need a lectern on the subject, dont use me. I assume youre testing my ability to pick out a variety of fallacies and illogicities. Boring...

"I also worked in a lawfirm where I was paid about the same as the "paralegal" with the 9th grade education (barely) who was hired straight from a strip club because my boss had lost his mind. "

Ok. This is just funny. What part of "men" havent you learned in 48 years? We discussed this. Men want sex. Women want money. Its too bad, but woulda shoulda coulda is no match for the way things really are. Your boss' wife divorced him and took his money, his house...the girl from the strip club today is 300 lbs, toothless, and is a crack addict. Youre better than "bitterness", dear.

Actually, reading through much of your response and the remaining paragraphs, you continue to weave in and out of refuting different actual and theoretical arguments, several not advanced by me, and then you fade off into semi confused and ambiguous thoughts, apparently directed at me as well. You appear to be assuming or second guessing my motivation in making comments. No point in addressing them individually, they are weirdly unfocused for you. They are uncharacteristic of your level. I assume youre having a bad day. Im sorry. Do you want to talk about it?

Rather than waste time, I wont address whatever is meant by "old resentments" because I dont have any. Not with you. Not with women. Not
with the womens movement when it didnt play the sort of game I mention. There is also an inside joke here, if you mean anything else by "resentments", but I realize you have no idea who I am or the course of my life or history.

Youve disappointed me with your response; Im merely a truck driver. Lucidity, consistency, intelligence; you cant expect these from me. We've all come to expect more from you. At least a clever clicky, breaking the suspense, providing the answer. But i do disagree, a solution to this question will come neither easily, nor soon. Let alone here.

Perhaps men are raised to be more self-reliant, a requirement of base. Perhaps women are not raised to take responsibility for themselves and their actions. Also a requirement of base given the harsh reality of "youre going to die, now...(no pun intended). Or perhaps men are raised to be more competitive than women, not satisfied with mere skydiving to establish simian dominance to impress mates, but rather "upping the stakes" in order to narrow the field, to limit competitors, or to eliminate a stagnant competitive arena. Perhaps a limited field increases the male's reproductive chances when the female's eye is cast upon a smaller group. For the same reason perhaps men have biologically been selected to pursue smaller social groups, which by definintion would be radiative, nomadically dispersing a population, which might lend to the survival of a greater number of selective individuals. Also, a group of smaller spheres have a larger surface area than a single large sphere with the same (internal) area; that would increase interaction with the environment, accelerating evolutionary pressures. Perhaps women are genetically selected to pursue larger social groups for protection (herd like) for themselves and their children, providing the inertia to stabilize such a system. Or maybe Im completely full of shit. Shall I continue?

Without you, Rhonda. We'll never know....

I just drive a truck.


Base 758


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x sigx

Well this may be too overlysimplistic but how about the majority of BASE jumpers were skydivers first....and since (I am guessing here) the ratio of men to women skydivers is still high, the same general ratio might apply to BASE - just like a microcosm of a larger population.

"As to teachers, I was talking about the payscales where I went to school in the 60s and 70s (I graduated highschool in '76). The men made more than the women, and most of the women had been teaching longer. "

Then this situation was heinously inequitous, wrong, and likely illegal unless gender discrimination laws were not in effect yet. I believe the logic
behind such inequities were that men had families to support and women were working "for fun". At the time, Im sure this was logical to the old culture which had existed for years...but its time had ended.
__________________________________________________

As a graduate of a teaching program within the last 5 years I have a bit of a different take on this -- many of my instructors started teaching at a time when you didn't need even post-secondary education
to become a teacher. You could start teaching right out of high-school, then maybe go to summer school if you wanted. Then in the late 60's/70's schools began looking for people with a university degree and/or a specific teaching certificate, and graduates of such programs were on a higher payscale. In Ontario here we still have the lowest spot on the payscale grid for people without university degrees, although it's doubtful anyone would now be hired without one. Maybe there were more guys getting out of the army and using the gi bill to get a teaching certificate, therefore making more money? Sorry, that;s a guess, but I don't think it's necessarily true that men made more for no reason. So the inequity may have been that less women had access to higher education.

Similarly if men had more education, they would be more likely to get promoted to admin (principal) then a female teacher who went straight to teaching out of high school.

Edited to add
I gotta say, I did most of my base jumps from 84-89, then in 2002 I went down to the Perrine to get into it again, and in 2003 went back to bridge day. One thing that impressed me was the number of females I saw - back when I started they were a real rarity. Not only were there a lot more of them, but they were HOT! (Especially, for some reason, those from Michigan). However, I'm a really shy guy, and I'm also the same age as most of their fathers, so I didn't get a chance to talk to any of them.

Still, rest assured that compared to the 80's, there are WAY more women in base now, and I only see the percentage increasing.

As a brief commentary on Amanduh's offering and Rhonda's response; just as my saying "Im just a truck driver" is a cop out, so is saying "but Im just a girl". In terms of Nature/Nurture consider the fact that men's dads haul them out at heinously young ages to overenthusiastically begin hurling 90 mph fastballs at them, training them from a very impressionable age to be physical, spatial, and non verbal. Between age 0 and 5 sets the program for much of who you will be; Experience during this time "wires" the brain-the brain adapts and changes to meet its environment. If boys are out climbing trees, and wrist rocketing birds out of trees while girls are knitting and shopping and cooking thanksgiving dinner, their relative experiences and time spent doing these activities will determine their later adult skills and aptitudes. The abilities of the comparitively slow and unadaptable adult is based on the brilliance and energy and fluidity of the child. If one sculptor spends 1 year in his/her art, and another 30 years, which would YOU expect to be better at it. What you are overcoming is not biology but the minds ignorance of the novel challenge. Just how goofy and backwards are men at sewing, or cooking, or washing clothes, or picking out furniture? Theyre complete retards mostly...Just as when a girl gets up to bat for the co-ed team. Its probably her 100 time at bat, not her 100,000th time.

Also just because physical differences have been observed in the brains of Men and Women doesnt mean those differences relate directly to a given behavior difference or aptitude difference. And it is equally possible that the differences exist not because of genetics, but because the brain has adapted physically to its environment, the similarities in women's brains reflecting the homogeneity of their upbringing and experience. Not their double x.

Dont be a cop-out. You want to BASE hard enough, youll rock at it...

Base 758


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x sigx

 

It's not a cop-out to describe reality, Dennis. And you are not just a truckdriver.

I addressed, albeit briefly, the issue in your post already, but it was not the question Katee posed.

The original question--and title of the thread--is "Why so few females?" not "Can women be good or even great basejumpers?"

We already know the answer to the latter question, because there are shining examples of great women basejumpers for us to point to.

That's just more reality.

But we still lack a satisfactory answer to the question that was asked.

rl

Edited to add:

The one with inborn talent.

Are you caling me a bad rigger, a bad cook, a dirty bastard, and a sloppy decorator?

It's always the same: 100%Nature-100%Nurture

heres a take:.base is fucking dangerous, inherently stupid, and altogether unnecessary, and women have the presence of mind to recognize this, and stay away thus preserving themseleves with thier maternal instinct..
or maybe it just takes balls, and most women dont have them...
(but the ones who have what it takes to base without are so incredibly beautiful that maybe its a goodthing they are so few and far between...)

 

the reason some of us aren't such great cooks is because we're doing the laundry, refereeing the children and vaccuming at the same time we're burning dinner...

 

Agreed. I personally have always been a "tom-boy"..the 'monkey' who was up in the tree refusing to come down (except for the few times I fell out lol), fishing and hunting with my dad..it just goes on and on...my other two sisters were always the "in doors type" wanting me to play 'barbie' with them . They look at what I do now and think I'm crazy..but it's been with me since I was really young...and it's somethign I can't necessarily make go away. I'm not coping-out on base by any means, so please don't think that by my posts. You will see me at an exit point sooner than you think.

*Edited to add: Abbie, you crack me up dude! You obviously know exactly where a woman's place is! Now get in tha kitchen and make me some pie!

I knew I could count on you, Nitro.

Two words:

Twin studies.

rl

Abbie, Abbie, Abbie...

"Linear" is not "logical."

Women can effortlessly use both sides of their brains simultaneously.

Men use only one hemisphere at a time. And even if you think two heads are better than one, I've never met a man who could make use of both his heads at the same time.

rl

i got 3 and thats the funniest referee kids thing i ever saw...it's going on the fridge tonight....

Thanks....Chris

If there is no sexual intrest, Do you think it is harder for a girl to find a mentor?

No. I don't think so. I do think that girls sometimes have trouble finding a mentor where there is no sexual interest (I mean, most BASE jumping guys are going to find a BASE jumping girl attractive to some extent). But I don't think it's particularly harder for a girl to find a mentor amongst the uninterested than it is for a guy.

So true man, and one it's stuck between our legs

Tom,

I'm curious. Have you observed BASE guys to be more attentive to girls than Skydiving guys to girls? Or just the usual level but it just happens to be in a BASE situation?

I think a little more so, probably because of the lower percentage of women BASE jumping (as compared to skydiving).

I know your question was directed to Tom, and I think I understand his context for answering it, but I also think you need to define your context for asking it.

What, exactly, do you mean by "attentive"?

rl

RL, I just directed the comment to Tom 'cause I've been asking him a bazillion questions. I don't mind anyone answering the question.

When I referenced "attentive," I was talking about the sexual interest level referenced in Tom's post.

PM sent.

rl

they are but they realice that if they start jumping who should do the cooking then

for real i think its a "mother"feeling that kicks in..

e.g's

Sue R from LA has kids.

Seven from Down Under has a boy.

etc.

They are both awesome people.

But mothers are probably as rare as hens teeth in the BASE world.

Not without me you don't!! I've been trying to get more current for the last year so I can get out there and haven't had a chance yet, now that I'm ready I have to wait for the spring

Why? Jimmy and Marta have a class starting tomorrow, and I'm doing one the first weekend in December. Classes slow down as it gets colder, but you can still find them.

Oh how sweet!! I happen to have a 4 day weekend that weekend!! Looks like we will FINALLY be able to met and jump together!