Basejumper.com - archive

Saw the attached article and had to laugh / cry. I'm not really sure.

In all the fuss about our various governments wasting money on war efforts, propaganda, and security (depends on your stance of course), they had to top it off with anti - BASE jumping measures.

Now the ironies:

- Anzac Br gets jumped as often as that gorge on Mars. You know the one, the 6000 footer. Actually, an attempt was made during its construction. But I do not know if it has ever actually been jumped. Good use of public money there.
- An $800k fence was put up on another Bridge and it actually did jumpers a favour. More height.
- Accidents off the Harbour Br are as rare as hens teeth (one recently) - yet we have sections of road that kill people on a daily basis because it is poorly built and the government has taken decades to get them fixed. Some are still killing people. So we spend money to stop one off events and don't bother with regular killers. I think I will be passing this article onto the highway accidents lobby group.

Seems like our Government is more concerned about the affects a 180 off heading / slow opening will have on our national security instead of gathering and using intelligence on REAL threats and making a real impact where regular accidents occur. Like teenage unemployment and suicide prevention, education, all the things that actually mean something in life.

Joke Tripodi should be embarrassed.

This is all too Orwellian for me.

I was going to say something funny like "well you've got three months," but this isn't funny at all, and to my ear very un-Oz like . . .

I can only add the whole world is getting sappy.

NickD
BASE 194

The scary thing Nick is that we were thinking alike. But it would not be good example for others.

SSShhhhhhh. Just don't tell anyone else. OK.

Thank goodness there is Europe and selected spots in America. I am sure they will appreciate my expenditures and contribution to the growth of their economies.

p.s. I think it would have been cheaper for the Gov't to build a tower for the local jumpers. But in the end, no matter what they do, it will never stop what goes on behind the scenes. And if they actually attempt and succeed in doign so, the achievement will be shallow and not beneficial at all to society.

All the more reason for people to learn properly, use good gear, get the right guidance, and not get onto the public radar in the first place.

It would be cheaper to build a tower with an elevator. That would actually distract jumpers from the bridge.

What are the charges you are looking at if you do jumping one of those bridges and get caught? And what function do thermal camera's serve? How do you identify someone through thermal imaging?

Charges - depends on what they decide to charge you with. Could be anything from misdemeanour to criminal. Fines vary from hundreds to possibly tens of thousands.

Thermal Imaging - your body produces heat. The camera picks up the heat and then they send the proverbial dogs in. The technology does not identify you. It identifies that there is someone there. Remember that the world is spending billions on security nowadays. There is a guard at every post nowadays.

f$#& my taxes are going to pay for this $hit

why don't they just spend $30k to put a big(40 m) retractable over hang on the top of the bridge (134m)
and have anual tourniments.

they always want that bridge shown on international tv as a land mark, not much would get it more attention then a BASE tourniment each year.

I'm sure if they said "anyone jumps the bridge gets 10 years jail and the yearly legal jumps get banned" then that would be a lot cheaper then spending 4 mill lol $4mill at a local hospital would go down better.
its not like no boats can pass under the bridge because of thousends of jumpers every minute.

if it was free I wouldnt mind to much as they are simply preventing ilegal act's but spending that much cash on something that is only going to hurt the offender is stupid.

They must catch you with your leg straps on.

It's why B-12s (the real buckle) are better for BASE, especially if you need to blend in or flee.

B-12s also solve the problem of being in a tree, and also getting dragged, if you're quick enough to dodge the chest strap. B-12s are the only way out of your gear if your gear is hard wired.

NickD
BASE 194

Depends on where you are.

There is a famous Norwegian valley where possession IS ten tenths of the law. You carry. You intended. You're busted.

There are other spots where this is the case too.

It also depends on the person allegedly caught and the person in authority. You have to be armed with more knowledge then your captor. One potential side affect of "getting away with it" is that new laws will be introduced to cover the loophole you have used.

Its all Bullcrap. If the owners of the objects allow it, so should society. And WE are the owners of many of the natural objects.

Good god those idiots in state parliament really have lost the plot!!!

Oh man I am gonna get my ass kicked, but

It is all from the view of the public. You may say it is Orwellian, but to a degree any society has to be. We here in America love our freedom, and the ideas of not enjoying our freedoms because of restrictions sounds like hell. We cry out when our rights are bruised. This is all good and well, and I respect that. But for a society to live together, there HAS to be certain restrictions.

Car crashes and war has become everyday. I don't think like I used to about people dying in Iraq - whether this be wrong or right. People are used to others dying in usual circumstances.

Because BASE is such an alarmning topic for many people, it spreads everywhere when something happened. (Many people have told me about the carnage video that spread like wildfire simply because they knew I was a skydiver.)

The public does not understand BASE jumpers. We all know they understand BASE jumpers to be crazy and insane, having a deathwish. So when the officials decide to do something to help their citizens in their eyes (even if it in reality harms them), the public agrees.

From the public viewpoint, they are doing a good thing. They are stopping crazies from hurting themselves. Little do they know.

It is all due to the image that BASE carries. The consequences has to be carried.

Crap. I was hoping it would still be jumpable in a year or two. Btw did anyone find out why the guy went in (PM if you dont want to post).

Yes, but. . .

The government must validate its funding programs. A word that comes to mind is . . . . . PRIORITIES. One of the bridges mentioned in the article has, to my knowledge, NEVER been jumped. The other has had so few accidents, that, despite what the public may think (thank you media & now politicians), it IS insignificant.

No business man would spend millions of dollars to make 5 dollars. And no politician with half a brain would spend millions to win over 4.9 votes. Lets face it, no one will remember the fence and thermal cameras on election day.

No matter which way you cut this, this is irresponsible mismanagement.

Perhaps there are underlying reasons for the security, but to even mention the reason as BASE in public is . . .


Oooohhhhhh. I give up.

They are big dumbo's!!!!!!!!!!

Point taken, I agree to some extent. Obviously I am not involved enough to give an educated opinion. I like to keep an eye on things though, wondering where BASE will be when I am ready to jump in, and where it will head after that.

Carl Boenish predicted in the late 70's, that soon, N.Y.C. would cordon off the streets around the World Trade Center one day per month so we could all jump . . . he also thought the BASE numbers would reach 1000 in ten years.

He was fifteen years off the mark, and that other thing didn't come to pass either.

I think the future is now. The trespassing thing will never go away completely in the USA, but we can say BASE is already accepted on the wholesale level. It's used in ads, and to make action packed movie scenes while journalists have taken to using the acronym BASE as an adjective to describe dangerous sports like when they say, "Similar to BASE jumping, Enter-Sport-Here, can be a killer."

The table is set for a commercial BASE jumping center somewhere, a tower or bridge, or who knows maybe even a cliff or building, dedicated to BASE with a juice bar and everything.

The squabbles we have are normal and nothing new . . . but the future of BASE jumping resides in the same place as always. Right in our laps . . .

NickD
BASE 194

who wants the job of watching the cameras?

uh, sounds, um exciting?

when you say 'juice' you mean alcohol too right? I know I am not the only one out there who enjoys a nice cold one or three after a day of jumping.

nic

As long as it is not after ony half a day. Otherwise we'll have to institute an 8 hour rule and no bar openings until after the last load has left. Manufacturers will have to start installing leg strap throwaways again (for you younger punks - leg strap throwaway is the colloquial term for aerial beer holder / stubby).

Its sounding more and more like skydiving every day.

Usually when the gov does something, it isn't so much for the apparent reason. Usually there is an agenda somehwere. History proves this to us.

Commercial bungee operation, 200ft over water, juice bar in the background.

fuck commercial base......stay free, fly free..

'Stupid' BASE-jumper first to leap into court
By Matthew Benns and Eamonn Duff
September 11, 2005
The Sun-Herald

http://www.smh.com.au/...9.html?oneclick=true

A rookie BASE-jumper rescued for the second time in four months will be the first person charged in NSW over the controversial activity.

Ben Gibson, 26, was rescued from a rock ledge after his parachute jump from a cliff top at Pierces Pass near Bilpin in the Blue Mountains went wrong last weekend.

It was the second time in four months that the Westpac Rescue Helicopter has rescued Gibson from a failed BASE-jump.

His actions have infuriated emergency services, who are looking to hand him the bill for their expensive callouts, and fellow BASE-jumpers who believe Gibson's actions are tarnishing their sport.

A Westpac Rescue Helicopter Service spokesman said: "BASE-jumping is a very dangerous sport and this accident quite clearly highlights that.

"There are many sports where people put their lives at risk but there aren't too many that put the lives of others at risk when something goes horribly wrong, as is the case with BASE-jumping."

Penrith Volunteer Rescue Association squad captain John Buchtmann said: "It's pure and utter stupidity. The consequences are astronomical when things go wrong - someone else has to risk their lives to go and rescue them."

Rescuers had to abseil 170 metres down the cliff face to secure Gibson to a stretcher before the helicopter crew could winch him to safety and fly him to Nepean Hospital for treatment.

On May 21, the same helicopter crew rescued Gibson after another abortive BASE-jump at Blackheath, in the Blue Mountains.

Ambulance specialist casualty access team manager Keith Williams said: "It was one of the more technical rescues we have done and highly dangerous for the rescuer."

Paramedic Paul Kernick, who abseiled down to Gibson last weekend, said: "It was pretty daunting to look over the edge of something that high, no matter who you are. It makes you think twice about what you have to do."

Mr Kernick and a police officer abseiled down to the parachutist, who was clinging to a bush to prevent himself from slipping off the metre-wide ledge and plunging another 100 metres to the ground.

"He was quite grateful that we were there. He had a lot of pain from the position he was in," said Mr Kernick. "He had a broken ankle and broken ribs from an earlier accident."

The emergency call from Gibson's brother on the cliff top was placed at 7.50am and he was not finally winched free until 2.30pm. An ambulance spokesman said: "It is too early to provide a cost for the rescue, however, the BASE-jumper will receive a bill from the Ambulance Service of NSW for our response to the rescue."

It costs $3500 an hour to keep the Westpac Helicopter in the air and the operation took more than six hours. Assistant Police Commissioner Denis Clifford estimated the total cost as running into "tens of thousands of dollars".

He said: "We're very keen to talk to him and we'll be looking at some offences under the National Parks and Wildlife Regulations, which carry about a $3000 fine."

A police spokeswoman added that Gibson would face charges for both of the BASE-jumps, which are banned in national parks. It is understood he will be the first person to be charged in NSW.

Gibson was discharged from hospital on Wednesday. When asked how he was feeling he said: "I'm OK, thanks for your concern."

But he refused to talk about the charges. "I have no comment to make on the matter, please don't call me again," he said.

Peter Fielding, considered to be the godfather of Australian BASE-jumping, said Gibson had "jumped his final jump".

He said Gibson was trained by Jason Fitz-Herbert, who died in October 2004 doing a memorial jump on the way to the funeral of BASE-jumper Roland Simpson.

Well that sux! How many BASE and skydives did Ben have?

D

Assuming that the media quote in context and correctly (assume = ass - u - me), I find the article from the SMH very disturbing. Let me run through some examples:



Hindsight will tell you that any scenario/situation that caused the accident, was, by definition, dangerous, as it led to the accident. Other lives at risk???? Lets try this again. DRABC is what first aiders learn. i.e. First step is to assess danger/risk. If excessive, no rescue. The professionals learn this at a much higher level. i.e. the risk is well known and managed. If a bush walker falls off a trail, there is little to no question of risk, yet a BASE jumper?It seems to me that some people perceive BASE to be excessively risky and that the risk of the rescue is related to the event that caused it rather than the situation that results.

Now, lets go through some sports where lives beyond the participant in question are put at risk:

- Rugby, Motor Racing, Fishing, Jet Skiiing, Boating in General, Martial Arts, Boxing, Golf, Polo, Horse Racing, etc, etc, etc. ALL of these sports have killed "innocent" bystanders. Now, lets name the number of people that have been killed by BASE jumpers. . . .UUummmmmm, I'm struggling here. Can someone please help me out because I can't think of any??

At least the media mentioned that other sports are dangerous.


"Highly dangerous to the rescuer"????? So Keith Williams has assessed the situation and decided it is highly dangerous, and then still decided to send the rescuers in??????? It appears that your procedures and policies are at odds. Either they are inadequate at actually assessing a situation, or you are ignoring risk and putting rescuers lives at stake by sending them in. I think WorkCover (Health & Safety "Police" in area where accident occured) may find this interesting. The third option of course is that you are overly dramatizing the situation and that the risk is in actual fact, very manageable and acceptable.

I thought that rescuers assessed all potential risks and them implemented the hierarchy of hazard control to reduce the risk to an acceptable level or eliminate it. Hence, the risk is no longer "highly dangerous", OR, if it still is, you have no risk management procedures and policies???? The second option is VERY unprofessional.

So, we have a rescuer/paramedic that is afraid to do his job and has to think twice about it. That is very comforting. I am going to give Mr Kernick the benefit of the doubt and say that he did not say this, but rather, was terribly misquoted by media. If he did say this, then I suggest he look for alternative employment. This sort of indecisiveness is what actually creates danger and risk.

Granted, most rescues take skill and technique, but training should cover most scenarios. If they are not, then perhaps the rescue services need to look into this area (on top of their recruitment policies). So far we have a leader that potentiall can't assess or manage risk, and a rescuer that is afrid to do his job... HHHMmmmmm.

And lets put this rescue site into context. I have seen NUMEROUS( ie. MANY) children with their parents abseil this wall on many occasions. I have abseiled it. It takes 10 minutes to set up the ropes and 1 minute to get to the ledge. What the hell is a rescuer doing using the words "highly dangerous"? This site is an intermediate weekend abseilers site.


Dear John, most of the great achievers in the world were/are considered out there/stupid/etc. Thank goodness they exist and not everyone has your narrow minded attitude. It is unfortunate that some individuals make mistakes and that others have to pick up the pieces. But that is what being a human being is about. To help one another when in need. BTW, why did you volunteer to become a rescuer (I congratualte and thank you for this contribution - I have done the same in the past)? When you think about it, most accidents happen because someone did something silly. Again, this occasionally is what human beings do.

Rescuers get people out of physical trouble. Councellors get people out of psychological trouble. Doctors get people out of medical trouble. Police get people out of legal trouble. All these people are at some risk. But it is a role that people have consciously accepted to perform.

If the consequence of your actions are "astronomical", then you seriously need to reconsider your ability to perform the role!!!! I agree that rescues DO involve some element of risk. Life involves risk. However, if the risks are insurmountable or excessive then DO NOT proceed. Look at your procedures. I am confident that that will be in there.


Looks like the cliff has grown a bit since I was there last. This height misinformation could be taken literally, and if used by an inexperienced jumper may actually contribute to an accident. Irresponsible!!!!!!!!


If the people managing this rescue had the chopper in the air for any more than two hours, they need to be disciplined for mismanagement of resources. The chopper could have been used for other rescues until the time came to actually remove the victim from the incident location.

BTW - given that Westpac derive immense prime time advertising from these rescues, are they still going to bill the victim for the total cost of the rescue??????? FYI - I am a Westpac customer to the tune of $100k's - customer is always right???

Footnote: I am going to assume that all the rescuers and their managers are VERY professional and skilled at their jobs. If they are, then they are not as they are giving exaggerated and incorrect quotes and information to the media. This IS unprofessional. Unless their objective is to scare others off or to try to change policy and perception through the time honoured political art of gross exaggeration and lies.

Excellent post. Although I believe that Lawyers get people out of legal trouble, police enforce the laws that they need to to 'protect' the masses.

Now you bring up a point about BASE killing anyone besides the actual jumper(s). My question is has BASE even injured a bystander? Scratch, concussion? The only thing I can think of would be psychcological effects of seeing someone go in or really hurt themselves.

-n

Does anyone know the names of the politicians backing this $4million waste ?
I'd like to write to them expressing my oppinion of how my tax money is spent,

They give out free needles to drug addicts (which I agree with) so why not give a tower to Base addicts, would be cheaper then $4mill

wouldnt a $4mill preventive system actually make the jump more encouraging ? like "hey they spent $4 mill and couldn't stop me" ??

I can just see them spending $4mill then standing up in parliment in 2 years time and saying how no longer are people getting killed because of all the thousends of jumpers landing on people who just happen to be swimming below the bridge at 2am lol

Also its ilegal to jetski in the harbour (because of the yuppies who don't like the noise out the front of there $20mill water front mansion) so will jet ski riders who happen to ride ilegally and sustain an injury have to pay for there medical help ?

Not in a welfare sense but society "should" take up the more legitimate liabilities of its most fringe cases. The guy soloing his small sailboat around the world, the climber topping out three times in a week, and the BASE jumpers pushing it hard in inaccessible places, all deserve an occasional rescue.

In a free world that also means saving the refugees from the "jackass" cult, but that's part of the package. To say no to one shaky endeavor is to say no to them all. And, humankind is richer for having madmen . . .

NickD
BASE 194

70 skydives and 150 base jumps
So I've been told...
Jen