Basejumper.com - archive

At the termination of the ABP thread Sangiro threw down the gauntlet...try to discuss without an RH attack.

Let's see if this community has the mettle to do just that. I think that it's impossible and that it will emerge that we are the bunch of whining wankers that I suspect we are.

Let me first throw you a curve to distract you...

Should BASE be legal...ever? I contend that it should not. I suggest that it's akin to making heroin legal. The decriminalization prevents only one effect of the act from acting. That effect is the legal effect. All of the transgressions and irresponsibilities will remain but you won't go to jail. The drug dealers will still be there, the addiction will still be there, the victims will still be there. The authorities may even throw in a tax so that they profit at least a little from the situation. After all, there has to be something in it for them.

BASE should be illegal. Too much freedom is a bad thing.

Whadayatinkaboudat?

And remember...no RH's.

How about the third option that exists in most countries already? Not illegal, but not legal either... This way you choose your own level of exposure object-by-object.

Is it too much freedom that's the bad thing, or having to take responsibility for your actions.


You choose to stick the needle in...

You compare heroin to BASE?

KNOWLEDGE my friend is the answer. Educate the mass and legalize the whole.

You have just reinforced his analogy.

How so? Who's knowledge? The public's? What would be the motivation to legalize? We are a minority special interest group. Why would they give a damn? How they benefit?

So is this a thread where we can discuss the recent events within the ABP, or is it just for discussing whether we really want BASE to be legal?

If the former, I'm a little concerned not only with the fact that the majority of the BOD, all respected names within the BASE community, has been summarily dismissed, but also with how this recent "restructuring" will appear to people outside the BASE community.

I am not a BASE jumper, but I am a silver member of the ABP. I paid for that membership because I'd like to legally jump certain objects which are now illegal. I don't know Robin's past (and this is not a personal attack or a request for more information- I know enough about him to form an opinion), but it seems to me that having a totalitarian organization will be less beneficial than a diversified leadership composed of respected names from within the community, and perhaps some professional lobbyists or something from outside the community.

In the Army, I was taught that the most dangerous thing a leader could do was say "I don't know". Those three little words not only implied incompetence, but would serve to demoralize the troops and eliminate any respect for the leader that they had. In my eyes, the ABP has just done that, by showing that the egos within the organization were greater than the ultimate goal, and by allowing a power struggle to become more important than legalizing jumping.

Short version: I'm a little upset with the recent turn of events, and I think it shows that the ABP is not as strong as it should be. That being said, I still support it, and I still want to see the goals of the ABP become reality.

Mike

Whenever screwing is going on, regardless of who is getting screwed and who is doing the screwing, always a discussion of the RH factor arises. If it exists, the fruits of your labor will likely come out messed up. If it doesnt exist, likely your children will be healthy and happy and successful. Since its something in our blood, avoiding it is difficult, and having healthy offspring becomes a function of testing for the existence of this negative element.

Also, open and free discussions on any topic, can at any time be held over on blinc, where Sangiros do not exist to modify or stop pertinent topical discussions amongst the members of our unique group.

"The only political freedom capable of enduring is one that is so pruned as to keep the rich from denuding the poor by ability or subtlety, and the poor from robbing the rich by violence or votes."

Actually, I think the purpose of this thread is to entertain skinflicka...

Nah, $kin is perfectly capable of "entertaining" himself.

SAVE YOURSELF 311!!! ...before you become yet ANOTHER burned "associate" of, err...whatshisname. You've been around this game longer than most...you should know better.


(edit--->not directed at truckerbase)

yikes!
I always thought that REFUSING to utter those words showed a basic denial about being a flawed human. it's the sort of statement you'd expect from megalomaniacal leadership.

and if true, legal backcountry parachuting won't occur for some time in US national parks. I don't see any honest leadership out there that could tell you they DO know what will work...

Okay, we know what "Godwin's Rule" is in the flame wars (the first one to mention Hitler loses the debate).

Lets make a new rule called the "RH factor" or "robin's rule" where if you mention RH in a BASE discussion you automatically lose?

The most dangerous thing a leader can do is shoot from the hip with total bullshit. Saying "I don't know" without any follow-up is almost as bad.

I have found that what most people like to hear is "I don't know, but I can find out, and I'll get back to you shortly."

rl

a key to sucess!

I thought that was called BS but I could be wrong.

Lose what? Are you providing prizes?

You're right, Nick...you are wrong.

<shrugs> It's only BS when it comes out of the mouths of those who lack even an iota of credibility.

rl

Mike, one of the signatures of a leader is authenticity. Implying you know something when you don't will strip you of credibility faster than a pit full of lesbians would strip Sandra Bullock of her chocolate coating.

You just experienced your first 180. Glad it was a literary one.

Did I scratch your truck in a previous life?

I think you misunderstood my reason for locking that thread. I think a discussion about the ABP will inevitably also bring into discussion some of the decisions and the management practices of the leadership - including Robin Heid - and I'm perfectly OK with that. It is after all an open organization that solicited funds from members.

You can talk about the ABP as much as you like, you can talk about the decisions made by Robin and the rest of the BOD, and even call them out by name as much as you like. You can NOT go off on a string of personal attacks about history and gripes that has absolutely no relevance on the issue at hand.

How's the conversation going over there on Blinc?

That was below the belt

BenHAll said-"Vandev, unwad your panties. ABP made it clear that the primary focus is US national parks and that worldwide efforts come only after all of the local issues have been resolved. In addition, so far the worldwide definition only includes Canada and Australia so your precious Europe is safe. "

As a Canadian jumper, speaking for myself, I would be overjoyed if Canada was taken off the list! If the first goal is sorting out the US...great, please stop south of the 49th Parallel. Things are ok here, we don't need to be liberated...thanks.

Shin: ... "try to discuss without an RH attack. "
.
Skin, that would be a tall order to fill.
I personally until this moment have never typed a word publicly concerning HR but all I had to do over the years is listen and read from the surrounding jumping community to make a decision to Not ever get involved. All I know is that I have only meet HR a couple times in my life but Every were he goes there is a constant or very Consistent Black-Cloud of bad feelings that surrounds his jump history.
Just the mention of his name in any discussion on the Boards or in BASE jump conversation end up in Argument and flat out just negative energy everywhere in the 50 states of BASE jumpers. Even BASE jumpers that have never meet the man are confused by the stories that they hear flying around in there jumping travels around the country. I understand he is Articulate and inelegant but his personal interaction with the jumping community seems to be flawed.
So it's kind of like RH is a small piece of ( intertwining Jump History ). Everyone is being FORBIDDEN to talk about. I don't quit understand why free discussion would be denied other than. -In this Case- It just escalades -Every Time- to Bad feelings and Bad energy and That pretty much speaks for itself.
So the only way you might be able to stop any RH discussion on the boards without any Attack seems to be just flat out Censor and create a One-Sided view and discussion. On a subject hat seems to intertwined it's way through the jumping community. Or is that what you are trying to say has already happening ?
..............

Skin: ..." Should BASE be legal...ever?"
.
Lets just Make-believe that you wake up tomorrow and Miraculously by and act of a magical Genie. All Public Domain is legal to Launch your Body or Parachute off. What do you think will happen ?
I don't actually have any membershit to any jump organization other that USPA. I actually don't have any BASE # and don't know if I will ever join or get deeply involved in any jump organization.
Has that stopped me from getting all the BASE jumps I want ? - NO
.
** If a real BASE jumper wants a Object bad enough. He or Her will put the WORK into it and MAKE the BASE jump happen..**
That little statement is the Primal Core of EVERYTHING that defines BASE.
.
WARNING :
I am going to be a little frank and opinionated from this sentence on and the below statements.
-
Skin you need to QUIT FUCKING AROUND and get to the REAL underlining Point of discussion.
A BASE jumper who is serious in jumping. Will jump and fulfill his or her dreams. No doubt about it.
If you could just walk up and jump off any fucking thing in town at a hearts whim.
I got to ask you. What is the challenge in that ? What is Learned ? & ALSO, Is that Really what BASE is ?
Is BASE simply just about doing a jump ?
BASE is not about having the FREEDOM to go out and just walk-up and jump anything you just fucking feel like jumping.
.
Fuck That Shit. That's NOT BASE jumping and that's -NOT- what I was Taught BASE was about.
What kind of BASE experience and knowledge is gained by letting anybody that -THINKS- he or her are a BASE jumper.
Just walk up to any God Damn thing they want and just Run it into the fucking ground. With little Thought, little Plan of action and little Respect gained by actually WORKING for a FUCKING BASE JUMP.
I just want to Fucking Puke at the thought of BASE becoming just the NORMAL accepted, Run of the Mill sport.
Anybody that plays along with this Bag of Horse Shit. Is a Fucking Dumb Ass.
You are not a BASE jumper and never will be a BASE jumper.
All I got to say is " Fuck Them." I am going out and make a BASE jump. Because I am a BASE jumper.
.
.
also :
Duuuuuuuuuuude what did you do.???
Your Trade Mark pic. / boy in a plastic hood, sucking on a plastic straw ?????
.
.
.

People keep telling me I'm not a BASE jumper, I'm going to develop a complex or something. You're a regular Ms. Manners, Ray -- it's like I accidentally used the shrimp fork for salad.

Ha.

I don't need to write posts to get my opinions voiced anymore. I just poke the appropriate jumper and they do it for me.

Nice point, well made Ray. I loved the passion.

See that...that's how you get things done, people. Passion. Not politics and posturing. Passion. Who cares if you go to jail for it. Just don't get caught.

You tell 'im, Ray. Bastard wouldn't listen to me--and I begged. Maybe he'll listen to you.

But don't count on it.

rl

Okay, m'love, I'll go with your analogy. Sort of.

Buildings and antennas will never be wholesale "legal" although it may be possible (not very likely, but possible) to convince individual property owners to disregard that teensy-weensy problem of near-infinite liability.

But earth and span are potentially the methadone clinics of the free base world.

Question: How many of you outlaw types actually eschew legal sites when they're readily available?

The fight for access seems reasonable, and even prudent, considering the high cost of getting caught. If we calculate the fines assessed over the years--not to mention the jail time assessed to the undeserving, and worst of all, the loss of Frank's bright light in the world--it seems well worth making the effort to secure sites that will prevent similar incidents for those who elect to do their jumping without all that running.

And for those who prefer heroin to its putatively (but not really) less addictive cousin, there will always be a building under construction or a tower to climb.

No one says you can't do both.

It would be nice if both sides could just accept the difference in philosophy and support each other.

<digs around in quote stash>

"We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately." Benjamin Franklin

But hey, go ahead, keep fighting with each other. It's worked okay for the last 20 years, so maybe you'll be good for 20 more.

rl

You hypocrite.

You cry about how it ain't the sixties anymore and then blurt out "Why can't we all just get along".

Those who sit on the fence can expect to get split up the a$$.

Pick a side missy. You can't have it all ways.

I guess you're still cranky cus you're...etc.

Think less. Jump more.

I don't care if you corrected it, you cheater, you still spelled "hypocrite" wrong. And the quote marks go after the period--speaking of which, that was last week. Pay attention.

Furthermore, Rodney "why can't we all get along" King was not the 60s, but the 90s, and if I have to be your fact checker as well as your editor, I expect a substantial raise and a glowing performance review.

<grumbles>

I have picked a side. It's just not the side you happen to be on, o lawless one. Nor is it what you consider "the other side." My side is this: I see a lot of benefit in certain sites being legal, but I think the more important issue is that you make a unified decision and take the appropriate action to implement that decision, whatever the decision and action turn out to be. I don't care if you get along, do it anyway.

From where I sit, it looks pretty aimless. Forget the "herding cats" analogy. It's more like sheep headed for the chute.

rl

P.S. If I'm to be split up the ass, it will not be from sitting on a fence.

Robin Heid, Robin Heid, Robin Heid.

Sorry, couldn't help my self

 


Furthermore, Rodney "why can't we all get along" King
And here all along I thought he said, "Why can't we all just get a lawn".

And here all along I thought he said, "Why can't we all just get a lawn".
I thought Rodney King was the one who said "Why can't we all get kicked to fuck by the pigs".

Incidentally, since RLK was being a smartass...I thought I'd point out that his name isn't Rodney...It's Glen.

Also, he's really white but was wearing boot polish to disuise himself. One of those facts is not true.

Incidentally, I have no corner on the smartass market, Dr. Jekyll.




Duly noted for the very next time we have an in-depth discussion about which decade we're in.



<pauses to wonder what will happen the first time $kin catches me making a typo>

True fact: you spelled "disguise" wrong.

rl

 

Yes there should.

no there shouldn't be.... what?

If you want to grow up and be a lawyer, Abbie, you need to be more precise. There isn't a rule explicitly banning this sport--the NPS management policy flows from 36 CFR 2.17, but it's only a policy--and a badly written one, at that. If you can figure out a way to make a jump without using a parachute to save your life, you're all good.

I would also note that a good administrative lawyer ought to be able to pick both the regulation and the policy to pieces.

I have managed (it didn't take much) to interest my employer (biographical information on request) in the problem. He has a long history of involving himself in "causes," particularly when the issues are not especially straightforward and no one else wants to touch them. He has 50 years experience, but age has not damped his spirit.

All I have to do is get my caseload down to a managable level, and we'll have time to discuss it in detail.

Anyone who would like to provide substantive fodder for his review is welcome to send it on.

<not believing I wrote this, wondering whether to post it> Oh, what the hell...

rl

You heard the lady...

Send all your irrelevunt (spelt rong diliberaytly) shit to miss whiplash and she'll figure all your shit out and you'll be jumping from Trump Towers in no time.

Or you can get a ski mask and be cool like Johnny Utah by jumping stuff and not getting cort.

Schweet!



PS Don't send your stuff to RLK..she really doesn't have the time...and Herman doesn't either.

That's true. I don't have time. But I'll make the time, and "Herman" has plenty because he's such a good delegator, not to mention that he has sufficient accumulated "capital" to make delegating a pleasure for the delegatee. I would know.

If all else fails, I can always cut down on my phone and online time...along with everything else I do for fun. Once I finish moving this weekend (back to the old neighborhood with Skydiving, et al., to the north, Mirage to the south and the sweet sound of Chopper 6 overhead every time someone breaks a bone), I'll have time to get caught up anyway.

I don't care. I actually did think long and hard about it before I made that post. It's on the table, so we can either give it a go or not.

rl

P.S. I don't do PI, love, but I'll be happy to give you a "whiplash" demo.

 

 

A reasonably wily and clever asshole, but you need a few more years to reach $kin's advanced agebility.




Be-beep!

rr