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If I didn't have a bust there already on my record, I'd love to help. However, if I get popped there again, I'm afraid they'll max me out. That crime carries a maximun sentence of 5 years in jail.

My name is Nick Di Giovanni. I live at 1880 Harbor Island Drive, San Diego, California, 92101. Come and get me now, or deal with me later . . .

NickD
BASE 194

Yes and no. I'm broke.

 

>>frankj23

Jul 6, 2005, 3:37 PM

Post #20 of 54 (215 views)
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Registered: Oct 31, 2004
Posts: 6

Re: [TomAiello] Check This . . . [In reply to] Quote | Reply

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I know this is stupid, but I still wonder.
What if 100 or 200 BASE jumpers all showed up at El Cap and started jumping, just like at Kjerag in Norway?

No official notice, no promise to get arrested....no using somebody else's gear...and no notice to the media, unless a jumper has a lead to somebody who will for sure write a sympathetic article.

I just wonder.....it is a dream, but why not dream?<<
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Count me in (it was my idea, after all), as long as we can get 200, not including the decoy non jumpers. A large number is important.
FJ

Willing to get busted? is this manditory, if one were to escape the grasp of a ranger or two, does one need to turn themselves in?

As for the lawyer, I will precontribute whatever price is set (to a resonable level) so we have them ready to go.

I have multiple photos of jumps within the NPS on my website...www.jimmyhalliday.com

Not only am I fully in on any type of thing that may or may not happen there, but I have the resources to make sure the entire world sees the footage, so I'll even risk the "no filming withing the NPS without a permit" bust. Since I got this HD camera, I could care less about my 3chip DVcam camera.

The NPS rules are so rediculous and so arbitrary that I'm ready to sue the NPS based on the fact that they are hindering my constitutionary right to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."

As an aspiring photographer and filmaker, why should I have to spend American money that I make legally in America, and pay taxes on, to travel to a foreign country to get shots that I could get two hours from where I live and work? Last year's trip to Norway was probably $3500 USD total. Shouldn't that money stay in the states?

I will always jump on NPS soil, and that does not make me a criminal.

In other words, I'm in.

Oh, by the way. Both myself and my father have made jumps off a cliff that is very famous to rock climbers and base jumpers alike. My dad's number is 77. I don't know what mine would be. Has anyone ever heard of a father and son both jumping that rock?

-jimmy halliday

If you are going to do a jump with 150 jumpers it will be very difficult, if not impossible, for the NPS to catch all the jumpers involved (unless you all give yourself in offcouse). If they know nothing about date and location beforehand and can only catch a small number of jumpers (let's say 10), the NPS is going to be a 'bit' frustrated and pissed.
I fear that these ten jumpers will get the full load (maximum charge) and will probably get a very severe sentence (money, jail). So, I think the question ain't if you are willing to get busted, but if you are willing to spend some time in jail, possibly for nothing.

I think you need to change the mind of the general population towards basejumping, instead of trying to change the mind of the NPS dirrectly. To them it is normal that you get busted, because afterall, for them basejumping is something crazy, reckless and pointless. How do you think the general population would think if basejumping became legal? If you change the mind of the general public, you change the mind of the politicians, and will eventually change the mind of the NPS. I know it is a long way, and succes is defineltly not guarenteed.

Anyway, just imagine, 150 jumpers together in a court room (is there a court room in the US large enough? ) I think this would to more then a protest jump were everybody escapes. (this would just piss the NPS even more).
In the end, I think a protest jump on that scale will do more harm then good.

Thijs

hahaha crazy stuff, would be funny to see 150 people jump.

what would be smart would be if there is a town close by,
then ya's could get some kind of current affair show to cover the few days and ram it down into 15 minutes of tv.

first of al;l 150 jumpers could all stay in the near by town and all spend $200 each that way the show can say that by having jumpers there just 1 day it brought $30k to the small community.
this would show that everyone is better off by this jumping.
How ever if some1 got hurt on the jump this would be the worse case ya's could ever put forward.

is there a law against walking around in the park with a parachute out of a container if you arnt jumping?
cos if not then ya's could have about 1,000 skydivers at the landing area all with there canopys out ready to pack away.
that way if 150 BASE jumpers land amongst one thousend people with there canopys out no one will be able to tell who jumped and who didn't and no1 could get charged because there would be a large ammount of reasonable doubt of who jumped.

and when everyone gets questioned they could simply say
"no I never jumped I was just here for the visual colour display, we set all the canopys up for a bright colour photo, then someone said cameras arnt allowed so we ended up not taking any photos at all and as we were about to pack up someone said some jumpers landed amongst us but by the time I looked around all I could see was other people with there canopys out for the Visual Colour DIsplay"

now that would be funny.
and are camera's really not allowed ?
or is it just video filming equipment or what ?

How about have 150 jumpers show up and offer to pay a reasonable sum of money to have rights to jump NPS land (or even just a specific exit point) for a year? Maybe I'm way off here, I have no handle on these kind of things, that money may be very attractive to NPS, or they may laugh at it (it may be nothing compared to the cost of a rescue).

Before trying a protest jump, make sure you have tried everything else. How many BASE jumpers are in the US? How many have written letters to the proper people asking permission, or for a change in the laws? Hell, I don't BASE (yet), but I'd write a letter if I knew where and how. How about all BASE jumpers do this, and get a few skydiver friends to do it too (triple your numbers - they don't know the difference between sky and BASE)! And do it every week for the next 8 years! (ever seen Shawshank Redemption?)

Tom, is it a bad idea to have a sticky thread in this forum with simple instructions (for political idiots like me) on where and how to write a polite letter asking for permission to jump, or for a change in the laws?

How about you start off just asking for access to one exit point? (this way they have less environmental concerns)

Because I am in a temporary retirement, I cannot jump but, I am willing to help organize

As a thief and a liar, it goes against me amoral code to get caught let alone give myself up.

Sorry...can't help.


But good luck.

I'm all over organizing, I'll even offer myself up for arrest in the landing area by running interference so jumpers can get away, I feel that strongly about the discriminatory practices of the NPS.

Unfortunately at this time I don't have the required training to jump...yet.

What are we with out our principles?

I'm all over it, too. 2025 is too long to wait. An anniversary of the first jump/bust seems appropriate, but it's probably better to go the sneak attack route and have jumpers in the air before they even know there's a protest going on.

Get 100-200 jumpers that each pitch 100 bucks into a legal fund, plus they each bring 2 "millers" to hang out in the landing area as decoys and we've got something... probably just an extra conviction for "unlawful gathering" or something else equally anti-Freedom, but it's something.

Go here. It's very easy.

Fuck it, count me in.

When and there I'm there and I'll pick up Nick on my way.E

as long as you live in the US - it didn't like my UK pastcode! What about the rest of us? I don't have a congressman or senator but those of the states with the toys in and the NPS can be written to by us.


Jules

 

 

I'm willing to participate and if getting busted is part of the participation I'll fight for my rights using all resources available...

Let's do it!!!

it is going to have to be an effort with many helping hands. I cannot do it all by my self. Besides, I wouldn't know where to start. Perhaps Jason Bell an help out. He seems to have his shit together

There's actually work being done on getting the system to allow foreign letter writers. Just after that on the schedule is getting it to send letters to non-U.S. officials (think about the Mexican hole, for example). But you have to remember that the whole thing is put together by a bunch of people with real lives, real jobs, and limited time. I'll make sure that this gets noted (again), but I can't promise any kind of timeline for you.

For a first time offense, what is the maximum sentence? I assume its a federal misdemeanor with 6 months max in jail, a few thousand dollar fine, and confiscation of gear.

What about the conspiracy charge? How does that work???

I would be very worried about the charges laid upon the main organizers and instigator of such an event. Most likely, they would face heftier penalties.

Also, read: http://www.vertical-visions.com/nps.php

Finally, don't underestimate the lazyness of the base jumping community. It's one thing to write on the boards, it's a whole other thing to actually travel hundreds of miles to show up at a protest that could result in getting arrested.

Didn't the Flatbed 10 try to drive a truck up there because they didn't want to hike that much? I'm going to get flamed for this, but we still have too much skydiving blood among us, and too little climbing blood.

Conspiracy to commit a misdemeanor can be a felony.

If I recall correctly the judge has wide latitude in determining the fine amount, and could jack it up if he thought poorly of the offender.

that is where 'yes, sir', 'no, sir', and a sheepish look come in...

I'm wondering why you are choosing this track of thoughts.

Take a look at special use permits. Like this one. http://www.nps.gov/yose/trip/sup.pdf

Check out Page 3. See that "exercise of First Amendment" part? Do a permit and check "Yes." Are you familiar with the area? "Yes." Do you plan on a press release? "Yes." Will you distribute material? "Yes." Do it! Is there any reason to believe there will be a counter protest? Put "No." Only NPS staff will protest it.

You should FIRST try to get a special use permit. That means taking the time to fill it out. Since this is a protest, the NPS has less of a right to ban it. They may suggest a time and date for this to happen. They can regulate this. If they don't allow you to jump, or issue you the permit, then I would recommend seekign other ways.

You HAVE to show the NPS that you are trying to do this the right way. Saying, "Fuck you" to bureaucrats is rarely successful and blows up in the face most of the time.

LAY A DAMNED RECORD that you are trying to do this the right way before you just mount a protest jump without notice to the NPS.

This was sort of my thinking as well.

I personally think something like this could backfire in a huge way for at least a couple of reasons.

First, folks such as Jason have been making inroads with the NPS to secure LEGAL jumping within our parks. Second, as "new blood" enters the NPS, there has been less of a perception of us being a pack of outlaws as is the case with the old guard. Third, if this thing is on the scale of a 100-way, I'd say the odds of SOMETHING going wrong are fairly high.

Bottom line, I personally think if folks try this our door to the NPS will be slammed shut and double-deadbolted if not permanently, definitely for the rest of our lifetime. And any new NPS rangers that had been sympathetic to our cause will pretty much turn their backs on us and think that the old timers were right all along.

I'm not saying give up the fight, all I'm saying is fight smart.

 

Anyone out there know the actual number of "special use" permits that have been issued to BASE jumpers in the past...I read that NPS guidelines are so tight that they had to grant themselves a 10 year waiver just so Bridge Day could happen.

I don't believe there is an organizer for this event. I believe there was a "Wouldn't it be cool if..." conversation started and a bunch of people said "yeah it would" and "I'd like to participate in something like that" and the likes.

That what's unique about this idea as opposed to the JanD jump. No one is organizing anything. It's just a FREE SPEAKING group of people talking about something that may or may not ever happen.

While we could possibly be charged with conspiracy to commit a crime, I don't think that would support the NPS's stand at all. It might even be the best press coverage we could ask for.

I think the best way to proceed is to have people show up. If people choose to jump, they choose to jump. If not it will still be a show of force regarding something that should not be deemed illegal which would be protected under "Freedom of Speech".

What would probably happen is the exit points would be blocked and the only way to jump would be to break more serious laws. At which point, most people will back down.

[SoapBox]
I feel many of our (US Citizens) rights are being violated, including the recent imminent domain ruling by the Supreme Court, many items in the Patriot Act and the way it is being enforced, and the right to use, in a way that is not detrimental to the public or the land, publicly owned land which I am paying to support.
[/SoapBox]

It would be really cool if we could secretly get a large group of people together to do a stealth jump, but secret, stealth, and large group are words that don't fit together easily.

Rick Harrison would probably be the best one to talk to. He's a wealth of knowledgeon these issues.

His email is cliffleaper@aol.com

At least a couple of jumpers have applied and they are pretty much summarily denied.

That route has been continually taken and pretty much is a dead end.

I've worked in government, so I have a pretty good idea how things work. Basically, if you want to change the system you have to make the system want to change. And the best way to make the system want to change is if there is political pressure on it to do so.

How many times have you told someone to "fuck off" and then they actually decided to see things your way? That sort of thing tends to escalate matters, not alleviate them.

I personally think our best bet is to get some politicians (i.e. Congressmen & Senators) into our corner. They can either lay the heat on the NPS to change its regs or introduce legislation to specifically permit parachuting on NPS lands.

The threat of a conspiracy conviction for any involved non-jumpers is very real. It has happened in the past.

What he said...

This should be totally in-house as far as media coverage is concerned. Jimmy shoots it, and coordinates and directs whoever else is there with cameras. I can write the story, which may or may not get used, but the idea is we can somewhat control the message and the images.

All media request for art flows through Jimmy and all media requests for information can go through me. For individuals from out of town I can write a boilerplate piece that you can plug your names into and run in your own hometown newspapers.

After the fact the media is going to go the NPS and get their take, and there's nothing we can do about that, but if it goes like I know it can, their reasons for not letting us jump should sound pretty lame. We only need a few heavyweight media types to see it our way and it's off to the races.

Some slots we'll need to fill: (We can flush these out later, and some positions will need assistants).

GearMaster – A gear orientated person. This person will not jump, but spend their time spotting potential gear issues. This person will have absolute and irreversible authority on what gear gets jumped.

FlickMaster – This person will run the launch point. I first imagined this as a long continuous line of single launches that once started doesn't stop until the last jumper is away. However, multiple launches are something we need to talk about.

MeadowMaster- We absolutely cannot trample the meadow. This person will make sure jumpers, ground personal, families, and friends stay on the paths.

VolunteerMaster – This person will direct ground personal to the best advantage. These volunteers will shield camera people and run digital media and video tapes out of the area for safe keeping. We'll also need a few camera folks stashed in the trees for back up.

BustMaster – This person will be responsible for keeping a log of all people who are arrested and how it went down. I think participation in this will call for a no-flee decision on all our parts. Land, stand, and take it like a man . . . Of course, if they don't come after you there's no need to turn yourself in.

WebMaster – We need someone right now to set us up a password protected forum so we can carry this on in private. This person will screen everyone and not admit anyone that isn't vouched for by other known BASE jumpers.

SecurityMaster – Obviously this is no longer a secret, but the "when" must be kept classified to the last possible moment. The SecurityMaster will be responsible for coordinating jumpers and volunteers to that end and actually picking the date. This is going to be tricky and may entail some standby time where we are staged and ready to go. This person will need to be in the Park ahead of time and will make the final go-no-go call.

MedMaster – We had over 600 launches from the NRGB last year with one or two sprains and one broken toe. There's no reason we can't do as well here. But, we still need medical support on site in case Aunt Bessie keels over.

So that's a start. Operation "?" (we need a good name keeping in mind we want public support) may happen next week, next month, or next year, it may be El Cap or someplace else. In the meantime let it be known we are ready and willing to open a dialogue with the NPS to mutually resolve this whole issue. One simple signature on a piece of paper and the whole BASE problem goes away.

Let's bring it . . .

NickD
BASE 194

Operation Free Will!

I wrote a whole rambling reply to this BS. And then I read what Nick wrote...

One simple signature on a piece of paper and the whole BASE problem goes away.

BASE jumpers- Get off your asses and stop talking about stupid dz.com stuff for 30 minutes, write up a letter to your state and federal reps, Dept of the Interior, NPS Superintendant, Yosemite, etc.

I bet it takes less than five to just fill in the blanks on the ABP web page.

Honestly, though, I think this discussion is about some kind of direct action, rather than a letter writing campaign.

Peter,

I have previously done just that. The first letter was summarily dismissed. The second and third have not been responded to and it's been more time since writing them than it was to get a response on the first attempt.

The letters, at this point, are simple a nuisance for the elected officials. There is no requirement for them to respond and the maximum number of letters is probably trivial compared to other issues they face.

I do think we should not forget the politically correct way of dealing with this issue, but ultimately I think a major upheaval is all that will be heard. I think that upheaval can only be heard by way of numbers, impact, or cash.

 

Back in February, I gave some advice on how to submit applications for a special use permit.

I'll put it this way - If 50 of you submit an application for a special use permit to jump El Cap, the NPS HAS to do somethign with it. If they deny an application, they have to state reasons for it.

Now, if there are 50 or 100 applications that they have to deal with, there is a consideration that some bureacrats may have to work weekends to deal with them all.

This is especially true if the applcations are well thought out and detailed. Simple letters saying, "I want to jump there. Tell me what to do" will not merit consideration.

I'm convinced that a starting point is using their rules to make their lives difficult.

 

I know 2 or 3 I'd vouch for.

I will join if it suits my scedular! Just pm the date!

Are you CRAZY!!! I know at least 25 paraglider pilots that would kill to fly the valley!! I'm sure there are more. Although I'm not sure the paragliding community is as willing to get arrested as the BASE community is.

What do you guys think about me posting a link to this thread on a popular paragliding forum?

Paragliders are banned from the valley because BASE jumping is (or vice versa) but they allow hang gliding. Why is that? I'm sure if BASE jumping was allowed they'd have to let people paragliding as well.

Edited to combine 2 posts.

 

 

Remember everybody, this is not a discussion about whether or not we should do this, but just a simple who's in and who isn't.

The ramifications will not ruin anyone's lives permanently.

Let's just get back to who's willing and really that's it...Who's willing. The next step is even easier...set a date., we go, we jump, we get busted, or maybe not. Whatever.

Those who know why this is a good idea don't need to explain themselves, and if anyone wants an explanation, i suggest they pick up a copy of thoreau's "Civil Disobedience." It's a little wordy, but good.

Oh and all the speculation about what will happen to those get busted is pointless at this point because those questions will get answered after the jump.

This sounds fun, and very American.

late,
jimmy

'Equal Access' ?

Also I love lawrockets idea of inundating NPS with special permit requests...just think how annoyed they're gonna be when they get hundreds of the things within a say, seven day period. The paperwork will be a nightmare in its own right. and when they deny us all, we file for an appeal...they do have an appeals process don't they? or is that too democratic?

If I had a really cool 3chip DVcam camera that I could care less about, I'd seriously consider donating it to an 87 jump wonder who is looking to upgrade from his crappy JVC so he can make some serious amateur BASE DVDs and home porn flicks

 

That sounds fine Abbie, security is everything . . .

NickD
BASE 194

That's it, in a nutshell. No logical policy differentiation between paragliders and BASE canopies.

Um, two separate questions?

But I think you can't overdo the security bit.

I would even go further to only allow BASE jumpers that another jumper you know can vouch for. A ranger could fill out a convincing profile and get access to your forum.

DEFINITELY willing to jump AND stuff the consequences for the cause.

Already got a conviction in my continent for it, so hey, why not start a BASE subculture.... Four convictions in four continents would be the goal!!?? Hell, while we are at it, why not just let the authorities issue the BASE conviction numbers...

Am willing to travel over there and do any preparation necessary to be involved in this.

From another thread:

Utah Board of Parks and Recreation Meeting: July 8th, 2005

The two approaches seem to be a bit incompatible

Civil disobedience only works in situations where there is substantial public sympathy for the cause. The act of disobedience brings attention to the issue and inspires the average person put political pressure on the system to remove the injustice.

It's one thing to hold a march to protest rascism or sexism. Or to be a black person and sit at the front of the bus.

In these cases we're talking about CLEAR injustices that tug at a person's conscience and core values. We're also talking about average ordinary people who other average ordinary people can sympathize with. And even then, the public outcry has to be on such a large scale and so overwhelming that the powers-that-be have really no choice but to eliminate the injustice.

Try to place yourself in the average ordinary Joe's shoes for a second (hard as that is for some folks I know)...

Do you REALLY think that this is on the level that it's going to inspire the average Joe to get mad enough to write his Senator/Congressman to express his outrage at the injustice of it all and demand legislation to end it? Do you really think that this will bring about such a substantial public outcry that the political hacks will have no choice but to end the NPS ban?

OR, will he think this is just a bunch of nutcases doing something stupid and pointless?

Further, how sympathetic (or accurate) has the mainstream press been to us up until now? Do you really think 100+ folks hucking themselves off a cliff is going to evoke some sort of media epiphany?

Folks are going to do what they want, I know. But I personally think is like trying to shoot at the NPS while holding the gun backwards.

Flame on...

I will add one caveat.

IF... and this is a big if... we were able to get the paragliders, hang gliders, rope jumpers and climbers ALL to be part of the protest... then we may have something.

At that point it no longer becomes just us. And the average Joe may see that we have a point since many others are also in our corner.

The general public could give a damn if BASE jumpers get to jump or not. What we should focus on is the underlying issue of discrimination...it's blatant. It's also something that everyone has experienced to some degree and can relate to.

Maybe with that approach we can garner some public support for the cause. Otherwise, were gonna come off like some rogue faction.

Civil Disobedience only works when all attempts working through the system have failed.

I'll reiterate - tray first to make a legal "protest jump." The NPS has far less slack in declining it as an exercise of the First Amendment than in not allowing a "fun jump."

<aol> Me too. </aol>

I'm with you, o mighty firewalker.

Still, there are a couple of ways to generate public empathy. You can create urban folk legends. If Rudi Guiliani had had his way, Thor Alex would still be in jail. As it was, the papers turned him into "The Human Fly," and made of him a hero. The media spin made him seem exciting and exotic, thus rendering it a political faux pas to prosecute him. When he died--months later in another country--New York City took note and grieved for him.

You can also play the gimp card--and that may be the better option. People love it when someone who is sick or disabled bounces back from whatever physical problems he has and performs some extraordinary feat. This kind of human interest story ignites the imagination and serves as an object lesson to anyone who says, "I can't."

If you can get a handle on the press, get the media on your side, things will change.

It remains to be seen if, in fact, change is good.

rl

So, in other words, once everybody gets organized here, try first to apply for a permit to make the protest jump, and leave the "non-permitted" version as a possible response if we exhaust our legal options?

My thoughts on the subject:

1) MASS PERMIT REQUESTS - At this point in time, requesting permits and overburdening the NPS will do us no good. The NPS has been discriminating against us for almost 40 years, so I don't see them changing their mind anytime soon. I've already sent a letter to Yosemite requesting to jump many years ago and was quickly denied. I'm not sure if anyone has filed for an "official" special use permit and sent in their $50. Anyone?

Anybody care to guess which National Park has arrested the most jumpers over the last 20 years? One clue - it's also the one that offers the only special use permit each year in October. Yep, New River. Some may think that New River is the most sympathetic National Park, when it is really the one that arrests the most jumpers (according to my thorough analysis of NPS Morning Reports dating back into the 80's and other recorded data). The NPS is not our friend and they never will be. We are wasting our time trying to negotiate with them in my opinion.

For example, even if Bridge Day were extended to three days, as per my recent attempts, I was told by the NERI NPS that an extension of the special use permit would probably never happen. And the rangers in Yosemite and New River continue to waste taxpayer dollars dressing as fisherman near the bottom of our 700' WV bridge, waiting in popular LZ's on full moons, arresting jumpers who were never in a National Park and then threatening us with further laws if we challenged them, shining spot lights on canopies, and even chasing jumpers using nightvision goggles. They probably even have YOU on their BASE Jumper Suspect List. Anyone ever landed at Bridge Day only to find a ranger poking a video camera in your face? They probably have a screen grab of your face in their database.

2) CONGRESSIONAL HELP - Forcing the NPS to change their discriminatory ways appears to be one of the better approaches. Writing letters to Senators/Congressman has proven to do some good, but the progress is slow. It is very much possible that with enough Congressional support and pressure, the NPS would open their doors to us.

3) MASS PROTEST JUMPS - The mass protest jump concept is not new. If I remember correctly, people were talking about it more than 10 years ago. This concept could go either way - if you have a serious injury or fatality, then we might as well forget ever jumping there legally. If it works well, then we're still faced with convincing the public that we should have the right to jump. Just as Zennie pointed out, the public often thinks we're crazy and it'll be VERY hard to make them sympathize with us.

What if the 1999 El Cap protest jumps had a happy ending? Would we have seen it on TV or read about it the papers? Probably not. The media loves it when a jumper goes in, not when one makes a tip-toe landing in El Cap Meadow.

I'm still willing to participate in a mass protest jump, but I'm starting to like the next idea listed below....

4) PEACEFUL PACKING IN EL CAP MEADOW - Perhaps the best approach would be for us to have a mass parachute packing session in El Cap meadow? We'd be highly visible, unarrestable as far as I know, and we'd get our point across. We could invite the media and even obtain a protest permit if required. Just make sure you don't allow your canopy to inflate over your head because you could be arrested and charged with aerial delivery. Either way, ANY arrest during this type of protest would be damaging to the NPS and would gain support for our side.

Better yet, bring your kids and let them kite a few canopies in the meadow. I'd love to see the rangers try to cuff and stuff MY kid for that. Now that might be all we need to get some public sympathy.

Thoughts?

Zennie,
I don't know what the term "Civil Disobedience" has evolved into. What I'm talking about is the actual spirit that it was written in.

I know we have something called civil disobedience now but when Thoreau wrote it he didn't care about numbers or outside sympathetic support.

In the second paragraph and talking about the American Government he writes, "It has not the vitality and force of a single living man; for a single man can bend it to his will."

See the attached PDF for 29 pages of NPS discrimination from 1966-2005. As if you really need to read it to figure out that the NPS is discriminatory.....

EDIT: Had to re-attach this document after someone complained (Robin?) and Sangiro emailed me about it. It's nothing but PUBLIC info that's freely available online!!!!! I simply compiled it all into one.

With all of us talking amongst ourselves, reinforcing certain views of the NPS, its really easy to lose sight of what John Q Public might think of the NPS. I know I grew up going to National Parks and internalizing a certain respect for the rangers, who "protect our national treasures". These magnificent rock faces and meadows are "national treasures", right? And the NPS has to figure out how to protect theses "national treasures" and still make them available for the enjoyment of 300,000,000 people (in the US alone), not to mention future generations. Even if we got perfectly informed and unbiased media coverage (which we, of course, won't), who do you supose John Q Public will, on average, sympathize with? Do we really want to court the "tyranny of the majority"?
This should not be a popularity contest. Obviously enough, BASE jumping is not fundamentally any more at odds with the purpose of the parks than any other outdoor activity (climbing, hang gliding, etc.). Thus the NPS ban is an unreasonable limit on civil liberties (you legal types correct my terminology). We should make a coordinated effort (ref. ABP) to convince those charged with preserving (not just our parks but also) our freedoms of this, exhausting any and all legal/civil/political avenues.
Of course, with "extreme sports" media coverage, BASE is slowly creeping into the conciousness of the general population. So perhaps a media battle could be won at some point. I'm just betting we're not quite there yet.

our nature is to remain hidden. generally, it's what we do. (of course, many objects DEMAND it.) and it can be both fun and rewarding.

so why are we surprised when the public (or NPS) has such a distorted image of BASE jumpers?

anything we can do that would raise our profile and display us as considerate and courteous would definitely help. Jason's idea, or Tom's request for today's meeting in Utah both seem like great ways to start.

face it, protest jumps & rebellion have been tried in the past. and the result is? why should we expect any different today?

can it hurt to have the rangers get to know us other than scofflaws?

maybe after showing them some public respect, they might reciprocate.

to exit the current stalemate, one side must act differently. so far, demanding THEY be the one to change simply has not worked. so why don't we give it a shot?

I was really hoping Jason would weigh in on this because he has the most experience dealing with the NPS and I respect his opinion.

I personally agree that the meadow packing protest is a really good idea. If I can scrounge up the money and time I'd be more than happy to participate.

The last protest jump didn't work for obvious reasons, but even if had gone better, a half dozen jumpers wasn't going to make enough noise. One hundred and fifty plus jumpers is going to make noise and headlines. If we don't get fair access this time, we'll do it again, and again, and again, until we do . . .

If we roll over now Jan Davis and the others died in vain. We are going to build on what Jan was trying to do.

They are never going to give in unless they are made to do so. It certainly makes sense from a practical side that if they decriminalize BASE jumping its one less thing they have to deal with and everyone wins. We have to make people realize that BASE jumping is not a crime. We have to make people realize that BASE jumping is a magical and magnificent human achievement that is worth the price we pay.

We also have to make them realize this isn't the same sport that failed the first time during the first legal test program. The difference between us then and us now is night and day. And we aren't asking for unfettered access we are asking for a couple of hours after first light to do our thing. We have proven with over 25 years of Bridge Days we are capable of working within the system for the good of all.

One mistake the last protest made is prior to the jumps they said BASE jumping was safe. I know that's not exactly what they said, but that's how the media and the Rangers took it, and after what happened, it became the hook in every article. We need to be much more media savvy this time. If we have an accident during this protest we can weather it as long as we make the point that BASE jumping can be very dangerous. It's dangerous like climbing and hang gliding and everything else is dangerous. People are capable of understanding that just fine.

Someone said this is a demo and not a stunt. That's correct, and this can't be treated like a fun jump. Everyone's number one job will be to arrive alive. This won't be the time for a first big wall jump, or a time to get current again. Please, there are other ways you can help, so cull yourself out if you know in your heart you shouldn't be on the load.

Notwithstanding all the good work done since Jean Boenish was lobbying on our behalf, but here's how she left it. The NPS in Washington said permitting BASE jumping was up to each individual Park Superintendent. The (in this case) Yosemite Park Superintendent dodged the issue by saying it was alright with him if it was alright with Washington. They had Jean shuttling back and forth like a ping pong ball. It's the classic case where no one wants to take the responsibility of saying yes. The point is all that has to happen to make jumping a reality is for one person to say yes. We don't have to change the aerial delivery law we just need them to issue permits. They know there is no good reason not to issue permits. They can't use environmental issues as there really are none, they can't use danger issues as it's not a criteria applied to any other already accepted activity.

Also, let's be careful in what we say and not use others as a crutch. No one should ever say the first legal program was populated by mostly skydiving bozos. No one should say because climbers have the right we want it too. We stand on our own account and we are asking only for fair access. Also skip the, we are doctors, engineers, lawyers, businessman and such. Every sub-group looking for acceptance says that. We are what we are and that's good enough . . .

I'm getting a lot of email and PMs now so please reference your notes to whatever the topic is. If "username" writes about a Master Slot and I asked for their name, address and phone, and I get just that, I can't easily connect the two.

If you are looking for where to get further information, and at this point we are looking for people who want to jump and to fill the MasterSlots, email me or Abbie for the secret URL. To gain access, at this point, you will need to include a real name, address and phone number and prior to access you can expect a phone call.

Finally, there are already many chomping on the bit. Slow down, we've only been seriously talking about this for a few days and there are many logistic and security issues to be sorted out. Once the MasterSlots and RegionalMasters are set the real work will begin. Right now we need a few more EMTs, more people with video cameras, and so far the only RegionalMaster slots covered are Southern California and Pennsylvania. We can break the country down a bit smaller than the USPA does so go by that for now. I'll post the exact areas as soon as I figure it out.

This is a big project and it's too important to rush. We have waited over 40 years for fair access so a little longer is alright . . .

NickD
BASE 194

Nick is right - we shouldn't be in a hurry to implement any of these ideas. Further discussion will lead to the best approach.

We may also find that several ideas can be mixed for the most powerful punch. Don't forget, there are other big walls in that valley.

If this is well organized...I'll do medical support.

RRT, EMT-B

Don't want to risk losing my green card with a jump.
Not current right now either.

I like the idea of a packing protest though, if we are sure they couldn't bust us for that. Seems like a great way to spread the message, and show some strength in numbers.

But whatever happens, good luck and be safe.

 I was reading the "Secret NPS Forum" and have uncovered their dastardly plot. The national park rangers will bring in big industrial fans and blow them across everybody's pack jobs..then when canopies go in air, they'll arrest everybody.

Rangers will stop at nothing to crush the uprising BASE movement.

Those bastards. Are fans allowed in the park?

If there will be many rangers blowing the wind at 100-120mph at about 30 degrees angle to the ground, we can land our wingsuits without parachutes!!! No law broken.

Never thought I'd get a blow job from a ranger. Just the thought of it make me feel kind of weird. Is that normal?

 

Im in. Let me know when and where........

When I first suggested this, I said "no media" so it would be a complete surprise to everybody but the jumpers, but I think your idea is much better.

FJ

Reply re:
Re: [KevinMcGuire] Protest Jump in NPS by Treejumps
I was driving home from Home Depot this morning on the nicest day of the year so far. Sun shining, listening to Sublime Doin' Time, thinking about Chronicle 2 and all of that nice cliff jumping footage, and it got me thinking about this protest jump. I would really like to be able to go jump legally some day in Yosemite. I think that this project could be the ticket, but I am concerned about the costs. With a fine that can easily be $2,500.00, lawyer fees, additional required travel for court, and loss of gear we could be easily be talking about a $10,000.00 jump. Somebody call Fred Morelli.

As an offset to this for any willing to participate I see the potential to use one of the forces that have traditionally worked against us, the media, to make this project a success. If we put enough resources into directing, filming, documenting, and photographing this event there should be a revenue potential there well into 6 figures. Were talking about being able to fill hours of 60 Minutes, 48 hours, REAL TV, MTV Sports and any other "news" shows time slot with a fantastic story. That would increase our chance with the public, since we the group would own all of the footage. With Tom S. and Mark L. and yes, you too Jimmy H. and all the rest of us shooting, this thing could be the big ticket in.

If this is what you were talking about all along, then I'm a little slow. Otherwise it was just an idea that would enable all jumpers to unite and work together towards a common goal.

I WANT TO JUMP!

of course, I'd love to see some great footage from a sympathetic angle. but can it be done by jumpers? heavy handed law enforcement has confiscated lots of potential evidence...


they may not be as good at pushing around established media...

I am very glad to see a lot of enthusiastic jumpers willing to do this jump. But before everybody goes and fights for their right to jump, try and picture 150 rather "extreme" looking hikers, walking single file to the top of el cap wearing funny looking backpacks. I could easily see the whole group getting busted before it even gets out of the valley.

I think that the parachute packing idea is a very good one. hang in there.

Actually, you've hit on something that may be even easier. Why not contact the media, i.e. 60 Minutes or Dateline NBC, to cover this. I have little doubt that these guys would know how to get into Yosemite or other places.

Jason would be a great start for this. First, get the news magazine show to cover something that is established and has a great record - BRIDGE DAY. Have that coverage give the reporters/journalists some education onf BASE and sympathy with BASE jumpers who aren't bothering anybody but do an extremely exciting sport.

Then get some of the video coverage from the European Big walls. Have some jumpers who have done the big walls talk about what happens there. Get some video coverage of the show.

While at it, pay very real attention to the dangers. Give some background on Lukas, De Gayardon or someone else who died in the sport.

Also, there needs to be preparation for damage control with regards to some incidents or persons who may have brought the sport into a bad light.

There must also be developed a plan on how the BASE community will deal with the issue of Felix. Like it or not, the general population may have a problem with BASE ethics against burning objects. As an attorney, I know that the general population does not understand legal ethics and why they are the way they are.

There MUST be a unified version of BASE ethics that will be palateable to the public. "Burning" objects means, in essence, open and notorious illegality that brings heat. The public can't really understand that, and something needs to be done to create a pretty version of it that is understandable.

Getting the press involved from the very beginning could be useful. But, getting the press involved at any stage will require that the group be media savvy. This can best be accomplished by having a few people who will be good with the press and who will be made to "speak for" the BASE community, as bad as that sounds.

There's a lot of work ahead, folks, and this cannot be done quickly.

 De Gayardon did not die in the sport.

Exactly. He was greatly influential with regard to wingsuit development in skydiving and BASE, and was a BASE jumper to boot...

He's the type of guy that I think SHOULD be talked about.

 

It's not that the public doesn't understand, it's that they don't care.

What they do care about is that trash, property damage and dead or broken bodies are not left behind.

On the other hand, if you try to define "BASE ethics" for public consumption, it's going to come out as "it's okay to break trespassing, reckless endangerment, and various other laws as long as you don't get caught."

<written with the knowledge that the person whose post I am responding to is fully aware of this>

rl

denied? would tend to think that most of us could have the chance to participate.

<serious mode>I feel that this protest should go beyond the personal infighting and bickering that normally goes on. I forsee that this could (and should) bring alot of us closer as a whole.

 

I know... just making a statment overall, though.

as conservative as the NPS is, i would assume a protest jump would not only have a "air delivery" charge but a conspiracy/something attachment.

Given how well the last one went, and the scale of the planned one, I'd say the odds are pretty significant.

You guys may want to look at this.

http://www.nps.gov/...ex/2002/2002_145.pdf

This appears to be the regulatory history of allowing hang gliding in Yosemite. Look at all the work that went into this.

Y'all may also want to see the site of the Yosemite Hang Gliding Association. http://yhga.org/ It looks like these are the people that got hang gliding into Yosemite. These people may be a valuable resource.

 [1,000 skydivers at the landing area all with there canopys out ready to pack away.
that way if 150 BASE jumpers land amongst one thousend people with there canopys out no one will be able to tell who jumped and who didn't and no1 could get charged because there would be a large ammount of reasonable doubt of who jumped.]

Pretty much love this idea.

numbers would be the key, whatever happened. The more people that showed up, the better the chance of the outcome being positive.

Crucial would be some semblance of surprise, and all safe jumps.

how many people(SKYDIVERS) have canopies near the size of base canopies? I am sure the NPS is intelligent enough to know the difference. Sure maybe some would get off, but I think most, if not all, are willing to take the consequences... I think NICKDG mentioned agreeing not to run...

Opens up anyone and everyone they catch to an aiding and abetting charge.

the more people who are there, the better.
with 1200 protestors and 150 jumpers, it comes to a point where a mass media event shows nps putting people into trucks with handcuffs for having harmless fun. could you get 1200 people to show up? doubtful.

what should happen is put 20 jumpers on every exit point in the park.

A few things . . .

Let's keep our eye on the fact that we are still very much in the planning stages. That said, when I suggested no one runs after landing I was thinking of the safety of both jumpers and Rangers. Law enforcement folks have built in control issues. When they lose control of a given situation they get frustrated, they get mad, and they make mistakes. All it would take is one cornered BASE jumper making a furtive move toward his waistband and a startled Ranger pulling his weapon and we could have a tragedy.

Also, by turning it into a free for all we will endanger the others who came in support. The last thing we need is Aunt Bessie swinging her handbag at a Ranger.

Another thing is the timetable and the actual plan itself. There are so many options available to us we really need to go through them all in order to be as effective as possible. I really think there is going to have to be a face to face meeting somewhere and at sometime to go through these. For instance, rather than a large jump from one place like El Cap we could mount a multi-pronged attack by putting 50 people off several NPS high profile sites all at the same time.

If we put any action off until next summer (yes, I know you're groaning) we could have this meeting at this year's Bridge Day.

We also need to reach out to jumpers not involved in the online BASE community and Bridge Day is our best bet for that. Something else that works in our favor is time. I think the NPS will get wind of this eventually and in a very small way, and something I'm not counting on, is the very possibility they might offer a "deal" to call it off. We are creating an opening here, and who knows how much light may eventually shine through it . . .

The following is something we'd need to discuss with Jason Bell, but I'd like to see some kind of peaceful protest at Bridge Day. Something that would not disrupt normal jumping. We are there, the public is there, and the Rangers are there. We also have the ear of the media and if every jumper interviewed refrained from talking about themselves, and instead raised the issue of unfair access in other parts of the NPS system, together with some serious sign carrying we could affect the message that emanates from Bridge Day. Do it like the government does, no matter what question they ask you just say what you want . . .

Again, anything organized like that needs Jason B's okay, as he manages Bridge Day for all jumpers, not just the ones who agree with direct action.

Lastly, the timetable and the real question of should we even do this needs to be knocked around a bit more. Just looking at the number here who raised points against this action is enough cause to be more thoughtful. I'm really beginning to see this as something not planned for this summer.

A few other points. One jumper up-board wondered why we can't make it work like it does in Europe. He mentions they (the jumpers) do a good jump of regulating who jumps and when. That's true, and we can do it too. However we started BASE jumping in U.S. National Parks from a more adverse position than you did. Your society wasn't so litigious, or afraid of celebrating a true human achievement, and there wasn't already a law against it on your books. We invented BASE ethics here and I know we can manage a program that works for us.

Tom A. is right, each in his own comfort zone. Either in the protest, or later on in a working program, otherwise qualified jumpers have the right to their own jump. No one should say no aerials. Every time we say no to something we give the other side ammunition to use against us. And we don't want to stifle progress. Something we tell someone not to do could be the beginning of the thing that unlocks our future. We also (in order to be successful) need acceptance from the NPS on our terms not theirs. We don’t need to put lipstick on a pig. BASE jumping is a good and noble thing for humans to do. I know in my heart there are enough people in the world who believe that to make it right. And right makes might . . .

On the "Feed the Children" or "Make a Wish" charity angle. It seems at first blush, like we are using the kids to get something we want. It's not like we are doing a Ten-K walk/race thing. But, I can change my mind, and this brings up this whole endeavor needs to be a group action. Of course there will be facilitators behind the scenes keeping the lists updated and the paperwork going, but no one is "in charge" Like BASE itself we are a loose band of brothers and sisters, but we are brothers and sisters tired of feeling like second class citizens in our own National Parks.

I had a nice phone conversation this morning, one of those calls I make to verify someone for the secret place, and this fellow says to me, "I don't know brother, I don't know if this is the right thing to do or not. But, it's time to saddle up . . ."

Early on in my BASE jumping I remember the criticisms we endured from people back at the drop zone. It reminds me of what I'm hearing know, except now even other BASE jumpers are chiming in. That's fine, and I understand their concerns. But I also know no one has ever given us anything in this sport. We have taken everything we enjoy. If you think that's not true because you (or someone) did the legwork to get a particular site legal, you're wrong. It was the blood, sweat, and tears of all that staked a claim in BASE, past, present, and future, that makes it possible. It is the "thing" that gives us credibility and we need to stay with the girl we brought to the dance.

(I'm sorry, I'm behind on the e-mails again, and for all the above at once. I'm in the middle of the last part of my radiation treatments - just five more to go - and I should start feeling better.)

"It's time to saddle up . . ."

NickD
BASE 194

RE:
this fellow says to me, "I don't know brother, I don't know if this is the right thing to do or not. But, it's time to saddle up .

......................................................................................................................................................

He is correct. Saddle up-we will work out the details.

F

No, better yet. Quote as much as you can from the scene in Footloose where Kevin Bacon convinces the town elders to allow them to dance.

Speaking of bridge day...

Fayetville makes a lot of money during bridge day. No one if going to like this idea, but a boycott of bridge day and the resulting loss of revenue might bring some political pressure to bear on the NPS.

Now this is a wonderful idea, this could be the starting point of the whole protest. If no BASE jumpers showed up and everyone there lost tons of money they sure would listen then. Thats one thing that always gets peoples attention is money especialy a loss of it.

Jason could take all the money that has been collected so far to hire an attorney to fight the NPS and donate the rest to charity in the name of all BASE jumpers.

This would defenitly start some kind of talks with the town and NPS.If we get started on this as soon as possible, maybe the town would put pressure on the NPS. Maybe we could ask for a full day of jumping if they thought that no one would show up.

I suspect the NPS would be quite pleased if no one showed up at BD. They'd love to cancel the whole thing and be able to stop doing it.

I've thought long and hard over a BD protest for years. Unfortunately, I don't think the Bridge Day Commission (BDC) or the citizens of WV would offer any sympathy.

-If we refused to organize the event early on, then the BDC would find another organizer or simply cancel the jumping portion of the event. This would be the least effective protest method and we could potentially lose the event altogether.

-If we all chose to not show up, then you've now pissed off hundreds of thousands of spectators and a live TV audience is left hanging. This would be fairly effective as a protest, but nobody would be here to protest.

-If we showed up at the exit point but didn't jump, then you've also cost the jumpers a lot of travel money. This would be the most effective protest method, but realistically, VERY FEW people are going to NOT jump and you've still pissed off the spectators and viewers at home. The 100+ newbies that jump at BD each year may not be educated enough on NPS policies to join your protest. You would have to rely on the media to tell the proper story and the viewers to sympathize with you. Most viewers could really give a rat's ass about us, to be honest. They just want to watch a bunch of "crazies" jump off the bridge.

I really think that a Bridge Day protest would backfire and cause much more harm than good. The NPS is one very small part of the event.

If you watched the live TV broadcast or OLN airing, you may have noticed that I frequently mentioned additional jumping days at Bridge Day as well as our fight with the NPS. Also, the banner that hung at the end of our exit ramp asking for more jumping time was shown on TV several times. In my opinion, utilizing the live TV broadcast and the exit point banners is a very effective method we use in order to get the word out.

This year, I told the producers of the live TV broadcast that I will only talk about two things:

-Opening the NRGB to more jumping
-Allowing jumpers access to NPS cliffs

So, I would suggest that all jumpers consider this if they find themselves on camera. Rather than talking about yourself, tell them that the NPS discriminates against you and this is the ONLY place in the USA that they permit you to jump for 6 short hours. Tell them that the NPS has the tallest, safest cliffs in the USA and you can't enjoy your sport there without the risk of being imprisoned for a year, getting a $5000 fine and gear confiscation, and getting strip searched by rangers after being arrested.

We will have banners up at the exit point this year protesting NPS policies. Also, a NPS petition will be circulated. Other ideas are in the works such as a vendor booth at the end of the bridge. If anyone has suggestions on how to peacefully protest NPS discrimination against jumpers, please let me know.

PS. Gary and Calvin, please don't raise my NPS Bridge Day Special Use Permit fees after reading this!

 

Bridge Day is our flagship event and we can't mess with it. What I'm talking about is a quiet protest. A person to person protest where we always stay on message.

Wuffo - Why do you jump?
Jumper - We are fighting for equal access in National Parks.

Reporter - Why do you jump?
Jumper - We are fighting for equal access in National Parks.

Local Babe in the Rafter's Bar - Why do you jump?
Jumper - We are fighting . . . Okay, no, you don't have to go that far!

NickD
BASE 194

Every one could have a green ribbon (or other color) like on the attached picture and talk about equal access.

"Support Base Jumping"

-- Renaud

That's an awesome idea! I'm not sure if a ribbon is the best thing, but a shared piece of flair or clothing item that all base jumpers can make at home and wear would be awesome. Imagine the curiousity it would create!

Peaceful, friendly and still mysterious.

Why not "live strong" style armbands?

That would work, but I'm not a big fan of them because everybody and his sister are using bracelets to signal something insignificant.

And let's face it, our cause for legal base is not quite on the same level as the cure for cancer and HIV. I'd prefer something more creative and unique. It has to be cheap and available everywhere though.

Edited to add: the cure for cancer and HIV are not insignificant. What I meant is that other people copied them for causes that are, in my opinion, less important. BASE would be one of them.

I love the ribbon thing . . . it would generate the right questions from reporters.

How's this sound. Every jumper shows up with a shaved head? Four hundred plus shaved heads walking around would do the trick . . .

NickD
BASE 194

I think that is a great idea. Especially for those of us that will be there, but wont be jumping.

I don't know about you guys, but there are so many different colored ribbons and armbands running around that I don't even wonder any more.

"Hey, d'you see that fucia ribbon on that back of that car?"

 

How about canopies with "It's Our Park Too!" emblazoned across them?

<fingers crossed that someone other than Nick gets that joke>

yeah 400 skinheads in that neck of the woods...nah, might piss off the local racist for taking their calling card.

I was also under the impression that (at least until you win your legal struggle) most BASE jumpers wouldn't want a big sign on their getaway vehicle labeling them as a jumper.

you could use a magnet type ribbon... seen many of those around....

I don't get it.

Ohh... I know, everyone blow up a condom, write "NPS is screwing me out of my own parks" down the side and attach it to your helmet. That'd be more visible than the wristband/ribbon thing... That way there will be a line of 250 jumpers at the exit point with condoms on their heads in the background of all the pictures and live broadcast?

I'm only half serious here, but I think we need something along these lines...really simple, visible and unique.

>>yeah 400 skinheads in that neck of the woods...<<

You're right, I didn't think of that . . . !

Thinking Out Loud . . .

There used to be at Bridge Day (I didn't see them last year) brightly painted barrels on either end of the Bridge so spectators could huck change into and the money went to supporting the overall event. (Even jumpers threw in something fearing the bad karma of passing them by). Why can't we bring our own barrels and start building a fund for the cause. We could even tie it into a petition drive that could turn into thousands of signatures of support. While I realize Bridge Day isn't all about us, there's no way tens of thousands of people show up just to eat funnel cakes. They come because of us.

There is defacto support for BASE jumping here that we aren't leveraging. I've seen the spectators first come to see us crash, then over the years come to have a certain amount of awe and respect for us. Heck, there are many spectators who come every year that have seen more successful BASE jumps than many of us.

The petition doesn't need to tie directly into the El Cap thing, but we could lay out very broadly that we are being harassed, persecuted, and hunted by the NPS. That we are willing to work with them but they won’t work with us, and if they agree its only fair and right, please sign here . . . We could also request they write their government representatives.

The fund raising possibilities are ours to harvest. One year Ron S. came to an early Bridge Day armed with few hundred small pamphlets that explained BASE jumping in wuffo terms. It had a few pictures, some diagrams, a glossary of terms, and he sold them for 25 cents apiece. He later told me he messed up as he could have sold a hundred thousand of them. Those pamphlets were helpful in other ways too. An early mis-communication at Bridge Day was jumpmasters advising first timers to launch head high, and some spectators took that to be a reference to jumping on drugs. There was also the myth that jumpers always grabbed their ears after jumping. They were really reaching back for their risers during deployment, but to the spectators on the bridge it look as if we all grabbed our ears.

We could again sell a small pamphlet that including a prepared letter of support the people could mail to their representatives. A buck for an event program is cheap by air show standards and if just half bought one in a typical year we might raise 50 to 70 thousand dollars. We "should" have a general fund for the cause administered by Joy Harrison, or someone, and we should be mounting proper legal defenses for people busted in National Parks, just like the USPA defends drop zones against enemies.

"Programs, get your programs here . . . !"

On the other hand, and since I'm just thinking out loud. It burns my butt that after all these years we are still having to do these things. I'd much rather go to Bridge Day, cut loose a little bit, and just enjoy my brothers and sisters in celebrating the sport. But if we don’t stand up for ourselves who will . . . and when?

In the mid-1980s the big argument in BASE jumping is should we organize or not. On one side is Jean Boenish who was for organizing and educating the public on the positive aspects of BASE, and on the other side there were those (including me) that thought we should just go about our business and damn what anyone else thought. Well, at the time Jean's ideas didn't fly as her management style turned off too many people. On the other side we just weren't mature enough to care about anything but ourselves. Now, here we are all these years later and we are stuck in neutral.

Let's get it in gear . . .

BASE is a living breathing thing that has grown and matured. We aren't (mentally) the same jumpers who failed in the first legal El Cap program, we aren't (mentally) the same jumpers who later rallied around the Jolly Roger flag, and we aren't (mentally) the same jumpers who are satisfied with just getting away with it.

BTW, that first legal program is a noose around our necks the NPS has been hanging us out to dry with for years. I was at the meeting (held at Perris in the early 80s) where we screwed ourselves by agreeing to the rules the NPS set out for us. We were pathetic, and gobbling up what ever crumbs the NPS was doling out. We didn't know BASE jumps can't be made on a timetable. We didn't know how wind and weather intensive BASE jumping was. We didn't know anything about BASE ethics or how to control the actions of other jumpers. We took the same attitude the USPA did. BASE wasn't generally something you did all the time. It was an extraordinary jump like a night or balloon jump.

USPA didn't turn on BASE jumpers when the legal program began to disintegrate. It was mainly everyone at USPA headquarters had already made their "El Cap" jump and they just didn't care anymore.

The fact is we weren't even BASE jumpers at that time. We were just skydivers out on a lark. The NPS was smarter than us, and when backed into a corner by the USPA they finally agreed to let us jump knowing full well we couldn't follow the rules. Their plan was to allow jumping only long enough to gather enough evidence to get jumping shut down forever. And we played right into there hands.

We violated every rule we agreed to abide by. We jumped at night, we did RW, we jumped without permits, or after the permit expired. We spray painted graffiti on the rocks and we drove trucks up closed trails, and there was a host of minor injuries. The fact is the NPS knew what they were doing and we did not. There are now several excellent cliff jumping programs in place around the world that work, and we are now smart enough not to hang ourselves by our own naiveté. The NPS has to get out of the past, and so do we!

I've got to go, its radiation time . . .

NickD
BASE 194

 

I don't. The whole idea of a charity event seems disingenuous. "Let's do something nice for a worhty cause to get more attention and tell people how good we are." It usually doesn't work well at all because people don't care much about that.

The reason why people and companies do this is for the tax write-off, and if they can generate some good publicity, then they'll go for it.

Here's a question - how many times do you walk out of something and say, "WOW! That was really nice that this charity ball was put on." It really doesn't happen. Charities put on events that are meant to entertain and give people something of value for their donations.

"BASE Jumpers - they care, so let them jump off of NPS cliffs." I just don't see a very solid connection in this, certainly not enough for people to step up to the plate to defend BASE jumpers.

Like it or not, this topic needs to be taken off of BASE jumpers and put into BASE jumping. This is not about personalities - personalities are what got BASE banned entirely, anyway. "Those BASE jumpers are special kinda guys" will not do your movement much good.

people have discussed showing support via armbands or ribbons. that mimics raising support for various charities, but rarely requests any other action.

instead, should we consider the model set by 2nd admendment (right to bear arms) advocates? they have NO trendy, signature way to raise attention. they still get their point across by placing their opinion on hats, shirts, belt buckles, stickers, etc. and they heavily lobby lawmakers.

oh, and many (both within the US and out) view them as, well, not all there.

they don't fight based on "colorful" personalities, but on the issue. and most gun advocates echo a consistent message. it is just part of their lifestyle, not an event. they live and breath their belief.

I've also known of individuals who DO NOT obey every law... they just don't go flaunting it in official's faces, demanding their rights be recognized.

true, they have a constitutional amendment and a mass of folks on their side... but why not build on their successful techniques?

I'm new to skydiving havint even thought of doing base yet but I think you guys are going the wrong way with this. I have been climbing for about 12 years now and we have similar issues with nps and private land owners everywhere we are constantly at it with nps and as crappy as it is we must follow their rules for that said time to get them to pay attention to our cause we fix trails donate many man hours and funds to the parks and they have somewhat learned to respect and appriciate us. By hosting a screw you in your face protest you will only be hurting yourself. Maybe some should question why are you doing this to jump off the coolest rock in the world for yourself or for the cause. You may get loads of attention and media but what worked for the Sex Pistols won't work here all publicity is not good publicity. If you can find 100 people willing to fork out 2gs for a fine how much better would 200k worth of cash go towards taking the time to do things right. You could probaly give a rats ass about what I'm saying here but I will be telling you told you so if you do things this way. I want freedom just as much as the rest of you I would love to climb The Captain and decend in 2 minutes but anything worth having is worth working for.

edit for jumpers name ~TA

>If we followed their rules we'd have nothing at all.
...Half of something is better than all of nothing.
2¢
~J

I am a non-jumper but work for the government.
You can not say that government especially law enforcement harassed you. You are immediately cooked in their and public eyes. See yourself pulled over by the cop on a highway and you tell him that he is harassing you. Also, an average person in America believes that cops are there to protect them and do not harass anybody just catch the bad guys.

A possible 'communications' strategy (I put myself in the seat of a government enforcer - I actually participate in enforcing some laws ) could be: Our National Parks are a treasure for all of us, source relaxation, contact with great outdoor etc. Millions of people live in these parks best experiences of their lives. We, BASE jumpers, as all outdoorsmen want to experience our great sport the same way as rock climbers, whitewater kayakers etc. do. We are responsible as a group, with ethics and good practices. We thread lightly etc...

Say NOTHING about two things. Past conflicts and Europe.

When asked about the past conflicts have a good script ready: early years, pioneers, maybe even daredevils etc. Now BASE is a mature sport with this and that

Do not say anything about Europe because in America nobody gives a darn about Europe except French wine and foie gras for the rich and big walls for this forum

 

your the motovating type get on it.E

 

I can't believe that "Americans" are willing to tolerate this from their government...

Its a good thing that our forefathers didn't wait for the Brits to respond to the email requests for independence...

Yes, they can arrest me, but they can't arrest us all... This is so stupid that I can't believe that we are on the internet trying to get some bureaucrats to allow us to BASE jump off our land...

They pull this on us because we allow them to, and our lack of organization and leadership is their best ally.

Peace

Is this idea dea or just on hold for a while

yea... its not a good idea... the NPS probally already infiltrated the whole operation...

 

You've been too quiet, Abbie. It's not your natural state, and it worries everyone.

You need to post more inflammatory material more often, that's all.



rl

 i was trying to throw some confusion in here

On the surface I appear to be this Canadian who currently lives in the USA, and lately I've been telling people that the INS is telling me that my Spanish isn't up to snuff and that I'm going to have to leave the USA sometime within the next 2 months. But in reality, I'm actually an undercover NPS Ranger sent first to the DZ to learn how to skydive and then how to BASE jump. This way I can find an in to the in crowd, expose the major dealers and distributors and bust open the whole case. So yes, you can could me in on your protest jump.

Hmmm ... I think I've been watching too many bad hollywood jumping movies.

Huh? You can count me in.

Here's a nice documentary about protest jump from El Cap.

Yuri