Basejumper.com - archive

I recently travelled to europe and visited a large terminal wall. I had previously been preparing to make my first WS base jump for a while, although i had only a few base jumps I had done lots of helicopter and balloon jumps, as I anticipated the exit to be the part of the jump I would struggle the most with.

I had done at least 70 jumps from the airplane with the suit I intended to use, and felt quite current on it. My choice of PC location had for the last 400 WS jumps been the BOC. I had previously used the BOC without major problem in PC location, although a "few" times with the S3 I had groped around for a few hundred feet while attempting to clear the wing from the PC handle. This seemed to be less of a problem with the V1 as the inner most section of the trailing edge is inserted into the body slightly higher than on the S3.

After more contemplation than is healthy, I had weighed up the pros and cons of sticking with what I already used but risking the wing covering the handle against a new PC location without that problem being possible. I took lots of peoples opinions and they all seemed to agree with my gut reaction, which was to use BOC.

So off I went and had an easy exit, "bit head down" but the flight was great and I travelled quite far. I admit I had not experienced the WS ground rush before, but with further experience now I don't believe I was below 500-600 feet when I initiated my attempt to deploy. However, as I reached round the wing covered the PC handle and I managed to clear it at an altitude that made me feel quite sick. I'm not sure but I think I may have been below 150 feet.

The only thing I could think was "UR DEAD." then I managed to "plop" the handle out withthe wing still covering it. The vented canopy I have been moaning about on terminal jumps suddenly was my best friend. I think ill keep it. My canopy ride was not too short as I immediatly travelled down the hill and gained a good 350 feet. I landed a little aukwardly using a car park entrance bar as an LZ.

After a beer, I slept on my decision to give up everything with nylon envolved immediatley. The next day, I felt that I could use it as a learning experience and maybe help no one else to have to go through this scary situation. A few of my friends said I should keep it to myself as I "would lose kudos" but I dont care about that. I just want people to not have the same thing to happen to them because I kept quiet. WS base, especially with "large wing" wing suits is relativly new, so any experiences I believe should be shared for the common good. That includes cock ups like mine...

I then did about 200 practice pulls on the ground and had no trouble finding and deploying using the leg pouch on the V1. It is remarkably easy to use and I will never use a BOC again....

Lessons I learnt that day :

1. BE carefull. the ground rush IS very different with WS base. Pull high on first flights. That means way before the little voice in your head starts to say your low enough. I cannot emphasise how quickly the "trap door" opens when you close your wings to deploy and suddenly the nice slow approach of the ground changes to an angry torrent of fear.

2. forget BOC with any suit that can even potentially cover your handle. BOC should IMHO only be used for classic Gti S-fly etc. Never on S3 or V1.

3. Go and change over to the leg pouch if your considering doing WS base and do a bunch of skydives. I personally had no problem "converting on the hill" but I realise that was not the best thing to do....


It is strange to me how the aspect of the jump I was most worried about was exit, and even in windy conditions I loved every one, and never once had a problem. However deployment was something that didn't worry me at all and it nearly killed me. Consider every eventuality carefully. Before you get there....

So anyway, i've had my say, and Im not sure how stupid I look, but I suspect lots. I dont care how much shit you guys give me if it makes people think and they make the right decisions. It would seem less than 24 hours after this happend to me something similar but with very different results happened in Austria to one of our brothers. I'm not sure but i heard it involved a leg pouch. I remain a big fan of them though.

I managed to knock out another 16 WS jumps including 2 2ways and a great 3 way last friday morning. I am very impressed with the performance possible on the V1 even to short fat dudes like myself being able to fly and buy beer under where I opened, on my second attempt. WS base is the most fun I ever had.

The V1 is my favourite toy by a large margin.

Darren

Fuck any one who gives you shit for being honest and fuck those who are more concerned with how they look than they are about sharing info that might save some ones life. Good job man. Glad your able to talk about it and be pround that your man enough to talk about it.
Those who claim to be perfect are the most flawed.

If you ask me you just earned kudos, not lost it.

Glad you are around to educate.

// Percy

Hey Darren,

The vid from that jump was pretty frightening, glad you came through it. And kudos for discussing it here. I took my S3 to that same wall but decided I wouldn't jump boc so I'm getting some leg pouch skydives done before I go back. It's definately the way to go.

Gus

Darren,

Glad you're alive!
Wingsuit BASE is a dangerous game, and largewinged suits even more so.

Couldn't agree more about your conclusions, large wings and BOC is a bad combination. The legpouch is good step in the right direction.

2001 I had a similar experince with the Skyflyer. The previous year I'd done a few Kjerag jumps with the Classic. No problems and a lot of fun. Now with the Skyflyer I expected the wings might cause me problems, since I had a few skydives where the wing folded over the PC handle.

Kjerag Skyflyer jump 1: wing folded over the PC, next try OK.
Kjerag Skyflyer jump 2: wing folded over the PC, next try same shit, third try used plan B (followed pouch from left to right), found it! If I had a reserve, I would have pulled it.

Prior to the 2:nd jump I dirt dived A LOT. In flight I mentally practiced pulls. Initiated the pull HIGH.
These two jumps made me switch back to the Classic, which I luckily brought as backup, and made some nice cliffjumps. Me and the rest of Team Bautasten, discussed a lot about what happened, why it happened, and what one could do to prevent it. We came to the conclusion that with large wings we need at least one of two things:
1. Really long rigs
2. An alternative placement of the PC.

We decided an alternantive placement, preferably on the leg, was the best option. I asked Robert to think about it, and a couple of weeks later he jumped a prototype.

There are still improvements needed to the legpouch, but it's way better than the BOC option. Also, as others have pointed out, you need to put a lot of skydives on it to get familiar with it. It's very easy to locate, but in a stressed situation it's also very easy to get back to "old behavior" and go for the BOC, which might end bad if you're at 400ft.

Also, many people do have a larger percent of weak pulls using the legpouch. You really don't want to put the PC on your back while wearing those large wings...

Please, be careful.

/Micke N
BASE 268
Team Bautasten

 

hello,

When you using the suits like V1 and S3 in WS BASE, PC pouch has no alternative. There is many pro & cons about the pouch, but one thing always gives the PC pouch big bonus, no matter what, the PC pouch is always at the same place, and it is impossible to cover the pouch with arm wing. Pull is quicker, stronger and the PC is closer to a ''clean air'' after throw (that is the reason why I designed that)

Also, with the PC pouch you can always fly at maximum speed and arrange the pull sequence, maintaining the max speed, without collapsing the wings, meaning that your flying trajectory doesn't change ( drop down ) much.

It is true that the PC pouch ad the complexity to a WS+ RIG system, but with good understanding (read manual) and pull practise on the ground, jumping that mod will be way safer than BOC system for sure.

Need to ad that on V1 the PC pouch is placed higher to the hip area which makes the pull easier than on the previous designed model.

Why did you choose pouch mouth on bottom? I saw one French suit with PC handle at top.

people should look at numbers 82 and 88 on the list just to re affirm the points made here.

I'm not sure how your leg strap pouches are set up, but now that there is a good reason to start using them again, it's worth mentioning for newer jumpers and gear checkers who may not realize it, that twisting the leg strap when donning the rig means a pilot chute in tow. It's an obvious thing, but an easy mistake to miss in the heat of the moment . . .

A good way to avoid that is by making the bridle a contrasting color to the rig, it makes the twist really apparent during a gear check.

NickD
BASE 194

The pouches these guys are talking about are on the hip area on the wingsuit. (S3 or V1). The leg strap of the container is inside the suit.

here is a picture V1 Pouch


BTW: The new PF web-site is amazing, check it out http://www.phoenix-fly.com

If you aren't used to the leg pouch, get used to it before making your first BASE jump in the S3 or V1. Do the practice touches and make the skydives. No exception. It's there for a reason.

However, there is no reason to use the BOC on these suits on a BASE jump. It takes a minute to get the shrivel flap on the bridle. Get two shrivel flaps (or make a second one). One for skydiving and one for BASE. It won't affect your bridles for other uses. Lastly, it is highly unlikely that you will get the PC positions confused when switching between jumping styles -- a fear many people have.

Fatalities have happened where low pulls were a factor (at a minimum) both where the BOC was used and where the PC pouch was unfamiliar. Wingsuit BASE jumping is very likely the most rewarding experience life has to offer, but also one of the most dangerous. Take the time to do it right. It's well worth it.

Have fun and play safe out there with our turbo dresses.

Thanks for all the input guys. On a lighter note, if someone can tell me easily how to compress video ill post the helmet camera footage on skydiving movies. i'm still IT illiterate.....

Darren

I have to disagree: i use BOC on all wingsuit flights, BASE and skydives. For my body/rig/suit combinations it works perfectly, so there is no reason to complicate the system.

Most other people, especially taller folks with shorter rigs, do find the leg pouch much more convenient.

bsbd!

Yuri.

Send me an PM when you are online and I'll get your footage compressed and uploaded somewhere

Amen.

The first thing I did when I got the S3 was switch to BASE pouch.
Same thing when I got the V1. BASE training started immediately.
It was a simple transition, worked the first time in fact.

Don't underestimate the importance of making a lot of skydives with the pouch before taking it to BASE. It might be easy to find under normal conditions, yes, but I would say it's a definite risk that in a stressed situation an untrained jumper would go for the BOC. If I remember right (correct me if I'm wrong) a jumper went in from a high cliff in U.S. a few years back trying to find the PC at the wrong location (this was not a wingsuit jump).

/Micke N
Team Bautasten

Hey Darren I haven't heard from you in some time. Glad you are OK. Sounds pretty life altering. I'll PM you. I still have the video from the baloon if you want it.

Tony

Hello,
My last wingsuit trip (March) to Mexico I used only my GTi's.
Since then I have been jumping the S3 and V1 every week.
Will try them in Norway in a few weeks.
Being current with the configuration of the moment could be a life saver.

Darren you are a smeg head (well you said you didn't care )

I met up with Darren for the last 2 days of his trip, his first attempt may have been "eventful" but he left one mighty fine wingsuit BASE pilot. The speed and ease with which he was arriving to the bar was most impressive (& annoying as it took me a year! )

Thanks for the fun 2 ways mate Remember the 10 sec rule

Long flights,

J

Im not disagreeing what Robi and others say about the legpouch, but have made the different choise. I use the BOC on WS skydives and base for the sake of simplicity and one PC position. I have never had difficulties locating the handle on with my rig/suit setups so I refuse to make changes to my pulling sequence. I jumped the legpouch for a while but the pulling position and added complicity of the system just didn't feel right. But maybe I'm just oddly built... just like Yuri.

Like all we doing in our life, it is all personal preference. I strongly recommend the PC pouch cause regardless of 100 of nice pulls fm BOC, the 101 can end up low with wing covering the PC. Not a big deal in WS skydiving but in WS BASE could be

Take care & all the best to all

Totally off topic dude, but you are truly oddly built. :) Eat more and get few cases of beer to your system, that should bring you to the same level with us normally built people. :) And commenting to the topic, I've never made a basejump or a skydive with the legpouch so I really can't comment on that one but as far as I think Robi, Yuri and Vesa are pretty much talking about the same thing. From my point of view it's all about being current with your deployment method and what method feels good for you.

well,
Vesa!!! Eat more!!! Mandatory from now on!!
You are to skinny and light....

Send him to America. We can fatten anyone up. That's why we're the fattest people on earth.

I can vouch for that - I needed to get a new jumpsuit after getting fat on a Tom/Cheri combo of steak and cake

...those 3 minute wingsuit flights are looking ever more distant!

OK its on the base section of skydiving movies . would like to know what altitude you guys think i opened at, my figures were a total guess...... my initial attempt to deploy is at the moment my head comes up, which i think is about 500 feet.

Darren

http://www.skydivingmovies.com/...ion=file&id=2361

Dave

How long was the canopy ride?

Holy fuck,

nice bit of ground rush right before you opened.

clip plays very choppy, seems to be from when you encoded it. any chance you can encode it again using variable bit rate and 2 passes?

c-ya

canopy ride about 20 secvonds. flew immediatly down the hill, which gave me more alti. missed the vinyard, put it down in the entrance to the car park just north of the bar. (50 ) metres north along the road. actually landed on top of the car park entrance bar (2m) high then did a little hop n flare onto the ground. then went for a beer.

Darren

sorry, i am a the limit of my abilities with computers just encoding it once, how the hell do you do a variable bit rate 2 pass thingy??? i used windows movie maker as i still haven't got roud to reading the premiere manual.......
darren

no worries.

you can get "Windows Media Encoder 9 Series" for free from the Microsoft web-site. this gives you loads of options for encoding files.

c-ya

just uploaded it again after using media encoder 9. cheers for the advice. I am learning constantly about techi shit. its a bigger file, 17 mb but it should work better now.

Darren

I would have said the same thing, but I recently saw this article on how Europe is apparently starting to catch up.

Those Italians have to lay off the pasta man.

Glad to see I'm not the only one you try to kill in a WS, Darren!

Seriously, glad you're ok. Scary video.

Did you cut away your wings to be able to pull? Or did you just continue trying to grab the PC without cutting away? It really looked to me like that last 5 seconds before opening, the fallingspeed went up (and by the sound of the wind).
Sorry if it has been asked before...
Thijs

Hey Thijs, no i didnt cut away my wings, there was no time. there is also no real piont in cutting away your wings to pul, i dont know of anyone who has ever cut them away for anything other than stability issues during freefall.....

I just reached round further and aarched harder, as i have done many times on a skydive when having initial (1st attempt) pull problems. The vertical rate of descent increased dramatically, (called the "Trap Door" effect) as all my wings were closed for about 4 seconds. I can tell you the ground rush was something ill not need to watch the VIdeo in order to remember..... it's burnt in pretty deep.

I'm trying to post the better version without the "jumpy bits" but skydiving movies seems to be down at the moment.

Darren