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After I packed my rig. I relized I did not reset my brake line lenth after I changed to slider down. Should I do a new pack job or can i just take it out of the tray. I do know it will chang my line lenth. Can I tuk it in the tail pock it?

when in doubt on anything on a pack job, repack it. even if it is something small... You will enjoy feeling good about a packjob on top of the object

What do you mean? Can you be a little more specific?

When I reconfigure from slider up to slider down,, I leave the toggles set at the same spot. The brake lines are removed from the slider grommets and the guide rings. Then the brakes are set to the shallow brake setting.

Which part of that are you unsure of?

Either way, string it back out and make sure the brakelines are set up exactly how they are supposed to be.

Are you talking about the brake setting or the toggle position?

As Tim said, take it out, pull it to line stretch, correct it, then re-stow the lines.

If you are in any doubt at all, I'd recommend just repacking the whole business.

Spending 30 minutes to an hour on another packjob will never kill you. Doing something that hasn't been sufficiently tested in the field might kill you. That would make it an easy choice for me.

The way I read your message, you changed from slider up to slider down, but stowed the brakes on the shallow brake setting, is that correct? Note that there is more to packing slider down than just the difference between deep or shallow brake settings. Make sure that you route the brake line outside the keeper rings and the slider grommets so you can deal with line-over.

If you were to do those things and tuck the extra slack in the tailpocket, I can see the following problems:

The steering lines can do weird things inside the tailpocket, resulting in tension knots or possibly even fun entanglements with other lines

When I was taught to pack. There were 2 differant line settings for slider up or slider down. Also the 2 settings for deep and shallow.

That should probably read "deep" brake setting, unless I misunderstood something. In that case, I will gladly delete this post and stand in the corner for inadvertedly thinking I know what I'm talking about.

Can you clarify? By "2 different line settings" do you mean two different brake settings or two different toggle positions?

If the only thing you need to change is the toggle position, and everything from the brake setting on up is correct you ought to be able to adjust the brake setting and just re-stow the excess. If you have to change the brake setting as well, I'd definitely pull it out to line stretch.

Question: Is is the brake setting or the toggle setting?

Also, another question is- what type of object was this pack-job intended?

Either way, I would take it out to line stretch, make your adjustment, reposition your tail placement, do a continuity check, and you should be good.

I would not just "tuck it in". This can lead to a possible tension knot---OUCH!!

ANY what ifs, lack of focus, distractions, or second guess, then you must start completely over.

Besides, your X-ray vision does not work so well when you have your rig on your back and you are listening to all the screaming in your head!!!

And final thought, if you have enough time to post and ask a question, then you definitely have time to re-pack.
So-- that is really your answer!



Have Fun!

_MT

I'm sorry the toggle settings

I am some what confused by the question but here are the answers I can give from reading the post.

I would change toggle setting and reroute the control lines with out pulling it out to line strech.

I would pull the lines out if I was changing from shallow to deep brakes. You would probably have to take the tail gate off to move to deep brakes. Then put it back on once the brakes are set. Then I would redress the tail and finish up.

Thats only what I would do... performance may vary.

Dude I would just repack it,it takes less time than reading through all these posts
Dont forget to
~re route the brakes outside of your sliger gromets and guide rings
~secure your slider to your risers
~properly stow your brakes with the loop through your brake lines and then through the metal ring.
I almost forgot once
you probably know all that but it couldn't hurt to be reminded.
cheers
~J

It should be okay. For slider up the toggle setting is a little further down the brake line, due to the line going through the slider grommets and riser guide ring. Depending on your canopy and toggle settings you may need to take a wrap to fully stall it the way you have it configured at the moment.

You could always strap a bag of dog food to it

Gear fear sucks!!

Cutting corners (like you're suggesting) is fine providing you are 100% sure of what you are doing.

If you need to ask then you don't know....... so just repack.

g.

If in doubt, repack it. Why risk it?

If all you're talking about is where on the brake line your toggles are positioned then FWIW I don't change mine between su and sd. I think the difference you introduce by taking the brake lines outside the slider/guide rings negates a couple of inches difference on the toggle settings.

Gus

Keep it simple dude.Have your steering lines fingertrapped at the ends.You can find a setting that would be suitable for the MSL where you most of your jumps,and it will be fine for higher or lower MSL's.This is strictly my opinion,and this works for me.I jump primarily around 1500,but I do jumps that are between 2500-6500MSL quite often.I can tell the difference,but I am able to get good performance,and safe performance with the setting I chose.I prefer not to have all that line dangling off my toggle,and do not like to have to stow it.I do not think it is neccesary.Again this is my mopinion,and it works for me.Hope this helps.
C-YA,Mike

I really prefer using the sliding knot option. Sewing loops in the end of the lines limits your options too much, in my opinion.

Advantages of the sliding knot (when compared with sewn loops):

1) Easier to attach and remove toggles (honestly, this is the biggest one for me).

2) Much easier to change toggle setting (either for slider up/down or to try different toggle positions for flight/flare)


I've seen too many people with obviously incorrect toggle settings sewn into their lines, who just couldn't be bothered to go get them changed. With a sliding knot, this can be changed in 30 seconds while packing, allowing for infinite adjustability on the fly.

Also, when changing configurations, put on your checklist to consider the status of your tailgate. You might want to stretch out the lines and run up the "tailgate" lines to ensure clearance and then engage the tailgate for slider down jumps, that is, if you didn't have it engaged, as some are doing now, for your slider up pack job.

Yeah, its raining.

Tom,

Sliding knot,- is this what you refer to as overhand knot on the brake line, with the brake line(above the knot) making a larks head around the toggle/grommet, with the knot providing bulk to prevent the setting from slipping?

_MT

Yes, if I understand you correctly.

I tie a knot into the line, then use that knot as a "backstop" to loop the line around the toggle.

I'm 99% sure this is the same system you use, as you are where I originally got it from.

Thanks

That is what I also thought. Sliding knot sounded a little strange, due to the fact that the knot does not slide while in use. Only slides if you, the user decides to "slide" the postion.

_MT

I had more thought of the toggle as sliding down to the knot. But I agree that "sliding knot" is a poor description.

 

There are most definetly pro's and con's to both of are ways.It all boils down to what works for yourself.I did make the suggestion to a friend if he was going to use the knot method then he should finger trap the line behind the knot,but not sew it.This is probably how I will do my new ACE.This will keep the line out of the way.

ANYONE have any opinion on this.

Huh?

The ease of switching is the number 1 reason I went with the knot method.

Maybe we're using different knot methods. Remind me to show you the one I use when you're out here. It's far easier than switching with a sewn loop.

It also has zero possibility for the knot slipping into the keeper ring. Can you explain how this could happen?

edit to add: I've got two rigs on loops and two on knots right now, and I far prefer the knots. Whenever I get the lower control lines replaced on the ones with loops, I'll definitely just leave the line long.

Can you elaborate? Are you talking about creating a loop under the knot?

To clarify, the knot method doesn't tie the toggle to the line at all. You tie a knot in the line itself, then use this knot to backstop a loop of line that you run around the toggle.

I feel like there must be some old school "tie the toggle to the line" knots running around, and that's not what I'm talking about here.

the way I have seen this is when the knot is on the backside of the toggle.What prevents you from taking the excess and fingertrapping it through the line that is going through the toggle.Get what I mean?

The knot is simply tying a knot in the line. No loop, no finger trap.

Fold the line in half about 2 inches above the knot. Then slide the folded line through the top of the grommet and around the tail of the toggle.There's no way the knot will get stuck in anything.

It's quick easy, and adjustable.

Hope that helps.

I have a couple of sets of knots in my lines. When I am jumping slider down I use the top knot. That leaves the knot or knots that I have below that one in the extra line that just hangs there. I think that is what tree was getting at. Just make sure that if you have other knots in the extra line that it gets stowed properly so it doesn't snag or hang up on anything.

In skydiving, I've seen a similar problem with the method of tying a loop in the brake line and larks-heading that around the toggle. The problem there is that some people leave quite a lot of slack in the loop, so that the knot winds up being an inch or more from the toggle. In this case, with the canopy in full flight it is possible for the knot to be pulled through the guide ring, which can sometimes give an unexpectedly hard pull when it comes time to flare (and the knot has to be pulled back through the ring).

With the method of tying a knot in the line and then larks-heading the folded line around the toggle (I think this is your method) it is conceivable that this could happen, if I'm not mistaken. With the knot on the bottom side of the toggle and the line passing through the guide ring, it's possible the knot could find its way through the guide ring and hang up. However, since the knot isn't on the tensioned side of the line, I think this is extremely unlikely. There is no force which will pull the knot through, as in the above method (the force in that case being the tension in the brake line).

Michael

The toggle would have to accompany the knot through the guide ring (since the knot is on the "down-line" side of the toggle). When you're at a point that there is enough pressure to pull your toggle through the guide ring, you've probably got other things on your mind.

Given that the toggle won't be pulled through the guide ring in any but the most extreme circumstances, I'm having trouble visualizing a scenario in which the knot can be pulled through the guide ring. Additional tension on the control line will just pull the knot tighter to the toggle.

Oops. I missed this post earlier... you are correct.

When in doubt, pull it out...

Sorry dude, but base is serious business. I'd never jump a rig I wasn't 100% sure about. Well never again at least.

Ganja

Ah, I clearly don't understand the setup exactly, then. I had imagined that, by folding the line and passing it through the grommet, you were putting the knot on the up-line side of the toggle. I know this is getting way off-topic at this point, but perhaps you could describe your method again for the slow kids in the audience? Thanks!

Michael

You can pass the line through the grommet in whichever direction you please. In order for the toggle to get "back stopped" by the knot, it's going to have to slide down the line until it reaches the knot. Hence the knot must be below the toggle. If you place the knot above the toggle, the line would just slip through the toggle when you pulled on it.

I rather suspect we all know what we're talking about, and if we were sitting around drinking beer, this would be a 30 second coversation, as well went "yup, that's what I meant."

Thanks for all the info

Tonight i'll do a repank. Besides the experience will only help.
I'm am also interested in meeting some local NJ jumpers if your interested. Please PM me

Aw, who needs steering lines, anyway -- you've always got rear risers...