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i have never skydived but i was told that i need to take a skydive class before i can base jump

I have heard of a few guys who learned to base jump without ever learning to skydive, but it definitely is not recommended...

You need to learn canopy control up high first...

I really don't know if learning to skydive is required, but most everyone will suggest you do so first anyway...

Take a scan at this doccument it has alot of base info

Read this

You don't "HAVE" to learn to skydive to BASE jump. THere is no regulation as far as BASE jumping is concerned.
But if you want to survive BASE jumping, it may be wise to get more than a course in skydiving. Definitely read Tom's article.

That depends.

Do you want to do this more than once?
Do you want to have any sense of how a parachute flies?

Jump off a building and have it open the wrong way... now what?

I watched a person once that had no Ram Air parachute experience jumping at one of the safest spans (that's bridge to you and me) in the US. The canopy opened and he had no Idea how to control it correctly.

Let’s put it this way. There's absolutely no way in hell I'd take someone BASE jumping that hasn't skydived at least a few hundred times.

No. It's (mostly) illegal. The only "need", "must" or "have to" as far as any rule is concerned is, you can't, you shouldn't & you had better not. After that it's a matter of common sense and good vs. bad advice and how to tell the difference. There's nothing that says you couldn't get good heads up instruction on BASE jumping without having skydived. Just as there's nothing stopping you from doing as you damn well please because it is illegal. So shop around, See Marta & Jimmy. Bridge Day? Good luck.

But ... but ... but ... there's video of a sac of dog food hucking off of that span with no prior ram air canopy control experience. If a sac of dog food can do it, why can't this person do it?

Seriously ... for the person who's started this thread. If you really are serious about getting into BASE, do hundreds and hundreds of skydives first. I did 700+ skydives before my first BASE jump. But then again, I didn't start skydiving to get into BASE. BASE just found me along the way. Canopy control is a major influence towards surviving in the BASE environment. When you've got to land in a tight landing area with no 2nd chances, you need to know how to control that canopy.

Like the advice in your post about shopping around. I take that as bad. Common sense doesn't live in a persons head yet when they have 0 jumps.

What you're suggesting is, if you don't like the answer you receive, keep asking around untill you hear the answer you want.

A person with 2 BASE jumps just broke their back in Moab because their BASE canopy flying skills weren't up to par. Just because it can be done...doesn't mean it should. There's almost no BASE jumpers out there, with a sound mind, that thinks it's a good Idea.

Cuz with an on heading opening and zero harness or steering control input puts you into the water.

Most skydiving students are taught to open their canopies higher than an experienced skydiver. Why?...you ask. To give someone with little experience "time" to make the correct decision and follow through with emergency procedures. Without having that skydiving experience, a problem on a base jump would most likely result in you being seriously injured or killed.

I know there are base jumping courses in europe. They wont take you unless you have at least 150 skydives, sometimes more.

Like the advice in your post about shopping around. I take that as bad.
Shopping for good instruction is not actually bad.

Common sense doesn't live in a persons head yet when they have 0 jumps.
Sure they can have common sense. Knowledge is what they'd be missing. Common sense does not require experience just to reside in a person's head.

What you're suggesting is, if you don't like the answer you receive, keep asking around untill you hear the answer you want.
No, what I'm saying is that you don't have to listen to just anyone. And you don't have to take the first volunteer who comes along and says they'll take you on a BASE jump.

]

Apex still requires a minimum 150 skydives for their FJC. Bridge Day is only 50 but still, parachuting experience required... and for good reason.

And that video was of Kibble #2. Kibble #1 (the video that you don't get) opened with a 90 left & line twists and hit the wall.

In fact, I think from now on I'm just going to refer to folks who subscribe to the "low-to-no jumps is OK" philosophy as Kibble.

The Kibble Philosophy...

I like it

See attached.


-SMD7

Looks hungry.

Do you have to know how to drive before they let you in a formula 1 race car. do you have to study for a final. The answer is know, know what your getting yourself into. you may crash a little you may fail alot . don't forget the video, so we can have it on the skydiving movies.com. How not to get into base.

Good luck and be safe.

This is a popular misconception. The majority of the BASE jumps made in the world today are made legally. That's not a semantic game, or anything based on the actual jump being legal. The majority of jumps are made without breaking any laws--no trespassing, no aerial delivery, no law breaking.

There are many BASE jumps made under less than legal circumstances. There are also many (more) made in completely legal situations.

Sure there is.

The instructors (the ones providing the "good, heads up instruction") will generally say it. It's exceedingly difficult (close to impossible) to find an actual qualified BASE instructor who will teach a student with no skydiving experience.

Most extreme sports involve catching big air. The board sports, whether skate. snow, or kite allow one to start slow and small. You can then work up to doing bigger and higher tricks, or you can remain very conservative.

However, when you pull the trigger on your first BASE jump there's no slow and small. It's the whole enchilada right from the start.

This is isn't a knock on that other sport, it's just a fact that the slow and small of BASE jumping is skydiving . . .

NickD
BASE 194

Tom are you basing this statement on TF,and Moab only,and the couple of other states that have legal jumps?

[replyMaybe if you take the entire world into account...Re-read what I wrote, particularly this bit (emphasis added{:

you think?

day in day out, I dont think this is true...........

ok, you may quote numbers of jumps made off the "legal spots" but I would say generally that "most" BASE jumps are made off the objects not allowed............... if thats not the case then I think the sport is going away from its roots.................

it makes me laugh to meet jumpers who have never jumped in the dark...........

I am still not sure this is true.Without naming any sites there are alot of jumps being done off of"A""S" throughout the US,and the world that are not legal.Especially the "S's."This probably belongs on another thread,but I just wanted to know how you came to this conclusion,without really knowing any #'s.(Unless you do have #'s)
Just my opinion.
ANYONE ELSE HAVE ANY INPUT.

I surveyed a sample of jumpers, and their logbooks. My samples aren't really large enough to be super convincing, but of the ones I've been able to catalog, it's actually more like 75% coming back legal. I think the big thing that people overlook is that folks will make 10 jumps in a day off legal stuff, but only 1 or 2 off of illegal sites.

Hey, be careful you guys. I think we are fast approaching the day when BASE jumpers split off into two camps. The legal and the illegal. I am going to be careful with the following as I've already been accused by someone who misunderstood me (and BASE in general) that the reason we jumped in the first place was the illegality of it all.

BASE jumping is where it is today because the first generation said "Fuck You" to those who said BASE jumping was a bad thing and we shouldn't do it. Our freedom to BASE jump is rooted in illegal jumps and illegal jumps will always be your refuge.

Take a look overseas. BASE jumpers there are quickly backing themselves into coffin corners. We are starting to see legal sites being jumped in illegal fashion, i.e. don’t jump during certain hours, don’t jump when there's tourists about, be careful when you jump as the locals don’t like the helicopter noise when it comes to rescue you. This is wrong on so many levels.

Stop thinking about yourselves and start thinking about sport. We, as human beings, have an unconditional right to jump. Sure, it's okay to work with locals, but when they start dictating when and where you can jump that's too much, and it's dangerous. Too many already get hurt and killed when they jump in the available conditions rather than the best conditions.

The people who bend over backwards (call them the collaborators) to make sure their nice little scene stays intact are the ones making it harder for future jumpers. Our ability to BASE jump is a war against people who don't want us to BASE jump. Appeasement will only prolong the battle . . .

NickD
BASE 194

I guess then this depends on who and where you are. I would say I could sample a large amount of log books of people I know and I would hazard a guess that the legal jumps are in the low 10-20% region rather than the 75% you quote....

The one big difference between now and twenty years ago is the number of base-jumpers. If only three jumpers land in your corn-field every year, you won't care much considering it's only them crazy 'stunt-people' anyway. On the other hand, if every weekend you get twenty people landing in and trampling your grass, the stunt image is quickly replaced with a regular sport image. This obviously changes the way locals will accomodate you.

I love sticking it to the man as much as you, but we're all sharing the same planet, jumper and non-jumpers. When we land on high grass, we ruin it. Grass is a sought-after commodity in Switzerland, because so few fields are flat enough to mow. When we recklesly cut trees at an exit-point, we are breaking things that were there long before us. When we bounce in front of a local audience, we temporarily traumatize at least a few people.

If one can jump illegally without breaking and harming anything, go for it! But as the number of jumpers grows there will have to be regulation to minimize the impact.

Let's just hope we never need a governing body. It is in our best interest to keep these simple local requests a local affair. In my opinion, it's when we stop respecting the simple requests that we set ourselves up for bigger trouble and goverment regulation.

Jaap "I hope I didn't misunderstand you Nick" Suter

Hmmmm., well, perhaps there are other ways to look at this. For sure, if you look at my logbook, you can say your perception is true, by looking at each jump. BUT, if you look at each object, then the situation reverses, with Illegal being about 90%%. Or you can look at Winter Versus Summer. Summer will be about 98% legal and Winter about 98% illegal. Or by category, B will be 100% illegal, A will be 100% illegal, S will be about 99% legal, E will be about 99% legal.

So, kind of depends on what you want to mean by "most" I guess.

I had just meant by total number of jumps.

If you are talking about total number of objects jumped, or what each jumpers majority of jumps are, or anything else, then there are going to be different things you observe.

Hi Jaap,

Yes, re-reading my post it was a bit harsh . . . sorry. And you made some good points.

I'm just always thinking of my friend Jeff who I think was worrying more about getting caught than he was about his performance when he was killed in Yosemite.

And I think about Frank being chased down like a dog until he drowned.

And I think of all the rest who paid fines and served time.

And I get frustrated . . .

NickD
BASE 194

Yeah, it sucks.

But I guess they would much rather see us use our middle-finger on the existing illegal sites than risking tolerance at currently legal sites.

I only know a tiny fraction of base history, but I think Jan, Jeff, Frank and Dennis would prefer to see us jump their Cap legally rather than see another hundred years of clandestine risk-taking. Correct me if I'm wrong.

If and when that happens, regulations will come from a grey area. Some will be happy, others will be pissed off. Unfortunately I don't think concessions will be entirely avoidable. It is up to the base community to make sure regulation is put on solid ground and not on a slippery slope straight into the arms of an FAA regulated base association.

has any1 actually answered the guy who started this thread ?

I'll answer it for him
to the person who wanted to know "do i have to skydive before i base jump?"
No you dont, but yes you should.
doing your first BASE jump isnt that hard (the falling part), living to make your second jump would be.

if you want to do BASE cos you think you'll like it, odd's are skydiving would be enough for now, take up skydiving get some experience, read Tom's article its
http://miller28.server101.com/discus/articles/tomagettinginto.html
and read Dwains
http://miller28.server101.com/discus/articles/gettinginto.html

and like everything in life, always get more then 1 oppinion.

and search this forum for a story recently about the d00d who had no experience, bought his BASE gear then free fell a 100 foot bridge

or number 47 on "The List"

I still stand by the fact that most people I know (personally) certainly have a much lower percentage of legal v illegal jumps than you state................

I guess (again) this has more to do with where you are from and what sort of jumper you are?

perhaps I am wrong..............

>>i have never skydived but i was told that i need to take a skydive class before i can base jump<<

http://www.basefatalities.info/

NickD
BASE 194

I am running at about 15% 'not illegal' jumps. I would guess that's fairly representative of my jumping friends.

Gus

Do 500 jumps with a lot on a 7 cell canopy (more than 200 square feet)...read the articles....then read thishttp://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=1512703;page=6;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25;

then meet some jumpers...then buy a lot of beer..then go see and help out on some jumps...then make a will then if you are still up for it go get on a course...oh yeah then stay alive.

I always think this is a much better guide then the 150 banded about............

i run a 1% of legal jumps i got both in easter this year after 3 years in the sport...
i like it that way...