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Hey,

I finally managed to scrape the courage together to tell my parents about base. Funny how doing that is scarier than any of the base jumps I have done.

I decided that a complete and honest approach was best, but they did not take it very well...

I'd love to hear other people's experiences. I know there have been a few threads about this in the past, but perhaps there's new advice out there.

I recently read that conflicts are like a cold shower. It sucks while your in it, but once it's over you feel better. I hope that's true in this case.

I hate to say it, but my mom will never fully understands what BASE is. She has seen my videos, and photos, and she seems to be fine with it as long as I enjoy it. I think part of the fact that she trusts me to be safe and make sane decisions about my own safety has alot to do with it. I think she was more hard-up about me getting my first motorcycle at 18, than me starting to skydive at 20 ...

My wife on the other hand requires a lot of hand holding before every jump - but so far she has been "tolerable" :)

Haven't seen my dad for last 13 years, so not sure what he would think of it ... Probably would be fine though...

My parents are the same, they seem to be proud of anything I do, and my mother is fine with it because she knows that I take care to learn as much as possible with regards to what I do.

Example: She used to come out to watch me race cars. She's seen me race so many times, including spinning out and all that's involved in racing, that she doesn't get scared anymore. When I started BASE, she understood that it was what I wanted to do, and had a sort of faith in me that I'd do what was necessary to keep myself as safe as possible. She has seen me BASE once, and thinks it's the coolest thing ever.

I've explained to her what could happen, I've explained black death, but she's still positive that I'll keep myself safe.

I'm glad she doesn't worry.

But in the back of my mind, I'm SURE she doesn't understand the risk.

And to me, as long as she understands that I'm doing what I have chosen, and understands that no one else is responsible for me, I'm fine with her not understanding the risk.

She believes in me, and knows that no one but me is responsible, and as far as I'm concerned, that's perfect.

Lou

Well my parents are way less than thrilled that I want to start jumping.
I find this ironic because I am a nascar driver, and my parents don't mind that. In fact, they support it 100%! They pay for everything involved. My dad built my car, and he does all the repairs.
Now from my experience, base jumping is much more dangerous than the track I race at, but still! There are a ton of dangers in racing, but my father insists racing is one of the safest things you can do...go figure.

I think it will be very hard for me to tell my parents. Well my dad already has an idea i think. My mom on the other hand made like 40 skydives in the mid/late 70's and would keep up with her jump friends. She Knows exactly what BASE is. She understands it and knows the outcome if things go bad. she has actually said to me in my 6 years of skydiving a number of times that "Nic, you can do whatever you want as long as you are safe except 1. Own and ride a street motorcycle 2. BASE jump and 3. Die before her." If I break any of these 'rules' she'll kill me. I know that doesnt make sense but thats what she said.

I am trying to be blatantly obvious that I am BASE jumping without telling them. When I visit I leave a BASE rig on the living room floor, watching a BASE jumping movie, during an informal dinner.

But Jaap is right. The thought of telling them has been just as hard as making a jump. I am trying to muster up more courage for my next visit, but we'll see If i walk down from that. i give it 80/20.

Hey Jaap,

My parents had an idea I was BASE jumping and my mom came out and asked me so I told them the truth. It was absolutely horrible. My dad flat out couldn't fathom why I would do something like that, he was mad enough that skydiving had taken over my life since that day the two of us had done our first jump courses together. (That was his only skydive). It got to the point where the word "BASE" pretty much wasn't allowed. I remember specifically a time when my sister and I were both over at my parents house and she asked me a question to which the answer involved BASE, but I just said skydiving. My dad, who was sitting right there, said "thanks" because he could see I was trying not to upset him.

Right now my parents and I have an agreement that as long as I am a full time student with good grades, they will pay for my school and help me out. It almost got to the point where I was offered an ultamatum between BASE jumping and their help.

Don't be discouraged though Jaap. Over the last year, my mom has actually asked to see BASE footage (a very little bit at a time). My parents were over at our place for dinner and my dad was going through our pics on the computer and actually asked me to email him one of Chad and me standing at exit point that he liked.

I still don't bring it up in front of my parents, and I know it scares them that their little girl is risking so much, but they are slowly coming around. Let them do it at their own speed, and just know they love you.

I made another thread involving my dad and his thoughts here http://www.dropzone.com/...?post=984493;#984493

Katie.

You're not alone brother.

I'm sure my family would be happier if I did what they did. Find a mate, settle down, buy a house, make babies, play golf, go shopping and work around the house all day long. Oh and I can't forget to go to Disney on my holidays (wherever the kids will be happiest because to them it's all about the kids). But I chose a different life. My mom knows I BASE jump and my sister even told me that she kind of expected me to do it as well once I started skydiving. I've always been known as kind of the wild man of the family.

  My family thinks it's pretty cool. I've had my Mom lay on her belly poking her head over the edge of a 600' cliff while I held her ankles. I told her this would help her get a feel for big open spaces.

Hi Ya'll

I haven't (yet) done any BASE jumps, but I have a strong will to do so this summer.

I found out, that telling mom about intention to BASE was very hard. But I would expect telling her after jumping would have been a lot harder.

The situation went something like this:
Me: "Mom, I'm thinking about going BASE jumping next summer."
Mom: "Well! I don't think there's any way to tell you not to?"
Me: "Not really..."
Mom: "Ok, but be safe"
Me: "I will. By the way; Merry christmas mom!"

Then we watched some base videos together

I don't think my parents have a visual of what BASE means and that is probably the reason they don't worry to much (what I can't say about my husband)...
My granny is the greatest! Her philosophy is: I'm so much more comfortable with you jumping of "things", since this is much lower that when jumping of the airplane and you have much less possibility to get hurt ... She is almost 80, so I don't bother to oppose her great thinking!

I was very honest with my parents when I started jumping. I sat them down and explained all I could about how BASE gear and knowledge had matured since the 'modern era' of BASE began. I explained how carefully we pack and how we configure our gear for each jump. I talked about the people I was training with and their expertise. Basically I tried to get across the idea that it's not completely suicidal and that I was taking it very seriously. Then I asked them if they had any questions and I did my best to answer them.

They were certainly not happy but I think very few parents would be. I've shown them some videos since and maybe they're a bit calmer about it now but basically they'd rather not know.

Gus

There is a great story involving our friend's mom coming to see him jump a building for his 17th birthday. 846 can tell it better, so i'll let her to do it

bsbd!

Yuri.

I'm curious how many of you have siblings, or are only children.

smd7

I have two brothers. One is two years older. He has his doubts about the risks in basejumping, but he is a serious mountaineer himself so he understands the adventurer's blood. The other one is four years older, doesn't participate in any risky sport, but strongly believes that one should enjoy life to the fullest. They both support me greatly.

1 brother. He and his Fiance refer to me as 'crazy uncle Nic' to their child. Funny thing is that I dont think I am that crazy.

Oh... Well... It's a funny story. But a long one.

I was the 17th birhtday of my jumping buddy. Let's call him jumper A.
It was a beautiful sunny day and we decided to go to the living building which wasn't been jumped for a while. Daytime jump was planned.

I accesed to the building first with the another friend of mine. We passed the guard (old women) sussefully and lift up to 20+ floor. Then we took ledder to go to the roof. Suddenly some person closed our way. That man was screaming and attacking us. He yelled: "I do know who are ya!"
-- okay... who?
-- you're jumpers! Your sunglasses is spessially purposed for flights!
After that he locked us on the first (entry) floor of the building. He introduced imself as a senior official of that particular house (kinda fake status, smth like non-paid housekeeper, not a job). And we were waiting till the time cops came. We wanted to see the cops also 'cause these two persons (man and old lady-guard) went totally crazy. The cops came and said they've already got enough troubles and fake emergies from that man and they were not going to get us because there were no reasons. They just ask us to jump another day -- not on their duty -- we said okay, and I promised them not to jump that day. At this time -- "Sh*t!" -- I noticed my friends jumpers A and B stepping into the door. They came in, looked at the crowd of cops, guards and us and ask something like "Everything's alright, guys?" Guard answered all is ok, not recognised them as the jumpers being busy with scandal, and the guys -- A and B -- went straight to the elevator, chating with each other.
Cops went away and we went outside the building area to watch the jump.
The housekeeper has been sticking outside the house too, drinking vodka with some other persons.
At this time A and B showed themselves up on the edge. They jumped long-distance 2-way. B was making landing approach then housekeeper noticed him and started running to the approx. landing spot (easy to predict it's an only available spot there). B landed and the drunk and angry housekeeper placed his feel on B's pilotchte. B said him to stop it and let him go. But housekeeper didn't and began to scream and attack B. At this moment some slim and young-looking women came to them and ask person to take a pilotchute back to the boy and let him go. (I didn't know it was the mom of jumper A who came to watch the jump. At that time I guessed she was just some girl living in that building )... she said that and get the kick to the face as an answer from housekeeper.
After that the housekeeper got the most painfull shot perform by the mom. And another one to the face. I guess that his broken nose was mama's job. Jumper A who's landed on another spot materialized right on the fighting place at this moment. He was doing his fighting best for his mom.
Finelly cops came again (the same crew) and took all of us to the policestation. There we were told the housekeeper has got triple-broken nose and broken jaw.
We've spent the whole eve there. But the cops were friendly and nice and my buddy and his mom went through it without any serious problems.

About that building -- it was been jumped again a while ago by the same jumpers crew and some others.

About the mom -- she was watching our jumps on Ostankino boogie, chating with Valery Rozov, with whom she has been making some pro-climbing for the years many years ago. And one day she delegated to me and Yuri the rights to be a nanny for her son. "Watch him, guys: no hard drugs, less ganja, safe jumps, sleep early, you know."

That's the best basejumper's mom I've ever seen.

I wonder if risky sports are somewhat common in your (to all people) families or that you are just an exception?

lets see... first it was the Army, she didnt like the idea of me going into the army even though she herself was in (yea my mama wore combat boots, there I said it)

then skydiving, she was a bit scared, but after awhile got used to that. sortof.


Finally/next: BASE... she thinks I am crazy now... none the less she still loves me and knows I will make the right decisions. She has even told me of some prospective CLIFFS in Southern Oregon where I am from, with 200-700ft ranges in height. topo maps are nice.. and reminded me abotu a certain bridge that you can take a solid 2 sec delay on.

My mom is now ok with the skydiving over the past twelve years but did not know about the BASE jumping.

Last year, we took a trip to Italy to visit relatives and I asked her in advance if we can stop at the Italian terminal wall to make a jump. She kind of freaked out when she learned BASE rigs have no reserves. I tried my best to explain it is better than taking a skydiving rig but have the feeling I did not convince her.

We met at Marcello's restaurant after the jump and was quite relieved I was safe but asked in a nice way to never include her on any future jumps because she was a nervous wreck.

 
When I told my mom at first she didn't watch want to watch the video of my first jump. Then she saw video of other people on the trip jumping, saw that I survived, and watched. Mom would prefer I don't snowboard in the back country, ride motorcycles, skydive, BASE jump, etc. although she supports those decisions and has never done more than sigh a little when I start one of those things. She hopes all my dreams come true including Cerro Torre.

I don't think Dad's said anything beyond noting the Malaysian government is very harsh on people who bring drugs there.

My brother jumps too, and he's much better then me

bsbd!

Yuri.

I didn't vote, because there wasn't anything in between "won't talk to me" and "fine after a week".

A little after I started skydiving, I showed off my new (used) rig to the folks. In demonstrating how it worked, I pulled out the pilot chute, and Mom freaked -- as if I might be doing something that might mess up the magic that made it open when I needed it. Ok, so, so much for details...

After I got into fixed objects, she asked me if there was anything I wouldn't do. I had just read an article about Golden Gate Bridge jumpers (without rigs, that is) and how the place is such a big draw for depressed romantics that the cops watch it pretty diligently, so I blurted out that I wouldn't jump off the Golden Gate Bridge. I was vaguely amused to find that that seemed to reassure her. She justed wanted to know that I had a limit, and it didn't really seem to matter so much exactly where the limit was. She wanted to know that I wasn't going to just keep taking bigger and bigger risks until it bit me.

Of course immediately after I said it, I got to wondering...

 

Jaap,

I am glad you finally came out with your parents. I am not sure which video you decided to show them but I am certain it was a great choice...Not like that one you had to show when you told them of your "secret" lifestyle. When I first met you this past weekend I had my doubts but at the end of the day as Pam and I looked back at you in the backseat of the convertible with that ocean air tossing your curly hair all over the place while you sang to your favorite ABBA tunes I knew you were an OK messed up person to Jump with. Congratulations.

The great thing is that your parents should be prepared for the "next" conversation with respect to your after hour visits to the zoo. They probably do not need to see that video but I know Chachi and I will give it an overview...He likes Zebras.

cygnus

I was going to wait until we got married, and then we could present ourselves at the same time. I'll be wearing the leather thong and then you can wear the gag-ball and be the gimp.

Oops...

Congratulations again dude! Getting voicemails like that is almost as good as jumping yourself! I'm still stoked....

It's funny.

At the beginning both my perents went "Hey if you can jump from 36000' you can jump from 360' what's the big deal!"

I did not get into the explanation and I was very happy about the wuffo comments.

Later my dad saw a show on TV about BASE jumping and the next time we talked we went "How high is that bridge you just jumped?" "that does not leave you much time to deal with problems, does it?"

But overall they're cool about it.

"I'm from Holland, isn't that vierd?" I may be European and open-minded in the bedroom (and outside of it); that doesn't mean I would ever consider doing felatio on a Zebra. I'm a vegetarian, remember?

Now plants on the other hand...


I'm honoured! Sorry I tend to be a little quiet in the morning, but you make so much noise that there's little more I could do than shut up. Ha!

It was great to meet you, and I'm looking forward to visiting you in Alberta and do some skydives and basejumps. Say hi to Pam and your parents. Your dad can always call me if he needs somebody to crash his Challenger again.

In a desperate attempt to get this thread back on topic after Abbie's and Cygnusbase's interventions, let me share that the cold-shower theory is holding up greatly!

I talked to my parents for another hour or so today, and it seems the initial shock is gone. They're no longer mad and upset. They're now back at being greatly worried, but interestingly enough mildly curious as well!

What a relief...

My mom actually asked if she could see some video next week. I'll have to browse my video collection for some good footage. Preferably some cliff-jumps (nature is always good), mellow music, nice landings, nothing too extreme. I think Continuum 2 has some good footage like that. Any other recommendations?

Too bad I don't have video of my last base jump. That would have worked great!

I just had a long talk with my parents. After reading some of the posts I feel like the reaction I got was pretty normal.

They do not want me to do this or even skydive (I don't think they realize the difference in the danger of the two). Talking to them was really hard...i even cried (I'm such a girl).

My parents are worried that I will forget about everything else and just drift around for the rest of my life, but they did assure me that they would continue to support me (mainly financially) no matter what I do.

will they adopt me? I need some support.

My parents are not so happy that I started to BASE jump. Every time I speak with my mother she tells me not to do any jumps.
My brothers and friends think that I'm a psycho to do BASE Jumping and they also tell me I should not do it.

My wife witnessed a horrible accident the first time she saw BASE jumping in live. She also does not like it but she already knew she can not change me when she married me... so she lets me jump...

When I first told my parents I was interested in doing BASE, I'm sure they thought it was just a phase I was going through and it would fade. Though over the months they've seen me get more and more excited about it, seen me saving up money for the courses and gear and everything I need to get on my way, go to BASE meets and incessantly watching videos and consuming anything to do with BASE i can get my hands on, they understand it's a little more serious!

My dad was a hang-glider for many years before he met my mother, then he settled into family life and sold it. When I get him to sit with me now and watch BASE DVD's and videos he mainly says, "I wish I could do that" but after injuries, and family and all that he wouldn't. They both ask me to be careful and make sure I do everything I possibly can to make it as safe as possible.

In short, they're not entirely pleased, but they love me in whatever I do, and they're always on the look-out for news about BASE (fatalities/accidents especially lol, trying to talk me out of it!) or anything that could make me safer!

In an early stage of my skydiving career I took my parents out to the DZ and they saw it was no bunch of 'luni's', but actually quite organized and professional, so they took it all very well. At some point my dad even did a tandem in France on a summer holiday. Then, a few years into it, they were visiting me while I was staying in Florida for a while and then I had my first and only accident (swooping the terrace, ending up in a bench ) right in front of their eyes. This is something you don't want to happen! Anyway, eversince my mum is freaked out about it!

Later on I started BASE jumping and I never made a secret of it. Now my mum has sleepsless nights and doesn't want to hear about it, nor see it.

My dad says the same (but I know he likes it, he simply can't say that in front of my mum...). He proudly says to his friends what I do and even asks me to show his friends my videos.

Whatever the reaction might be, I think it's best to be honest no matter what. They might even be more hurt when they find out when it's too late.

They ARE your parents!

Joris.

My parents are awesome. I love them to death.

They have shown very conflicting reactions to all my activities, let alone jumping.

When I started skydiving, they were freaked out. I set up a skydiving club at university to help fund my initial training. I received a lot of phone calls at home r.e. AFF training. That is how they found out I was going to do it. "Why are all these people calling about jumping?. I don't know mum. Wrong number I guess!" I also got my older brother to do the first jump course with me. They finally figured out I was really going to jump, but they did not know when. So I brought the video home and showed them. They bruised the bottom of their jaws. For a long time since then I'd tell them that I am going jumping for the weekend and they would not talk to me for a few days. They were usully OK with it from Tues to Thurs. And then the stress cycle continued from Fri to Mon.

I organised a few 8 way demo jumps onto their property. That was the first (and I think only) time they saw me physically jump.

Then I started BASE jumping. They had no idea what it was until I showed them video's and explained what the fuss was all about. Suddenly, skydiving was OK. They had something bigger and better to worry about. A few fatalities and a broken leg and they started worrying a lot. When I started the role of ABA safety officer, they heard a lot of my conversations with new jumpers and got even more worried. Throw in some crazy videos. . . . . .

The contradictions have been interesting. My folks gave me the money for my first skydiving rig. It was at the start of a big slump in the real estate market and a formely wealthy entrepreneur had to sell his brand new rig to help pay his rent. I had no money because I was a lowly univ student and my parents footed the bill. They proposed this, not me. They did feel concerned that if anything happened to me, they would feel responsible for contributing to my death. But long conversations and explanations on why accidents happened, and the realities of the sport comforted them a little. They also hada habit of always asking me when I was going to quit. "That's a lovely jump you've made, great trip overseas son. . . . Don't you think its time to focus on something else now?" - a subtle form of begging.

One day my parents had a large group of friends over for dinner. I had been out jumping all day and had to drop by to pick up some gear whilst on the way to another site. I overheard mum talking to the visitors about her son (me) and the exciting adventurous life that he led, and how proud she was.

The crowd did not sound convinced. A friend (DW) waited in the dining area whilst I went to get my gear. One of the guests asked him why he did such a crazy sport? He replied that he didn't really want to do all the crazy jumps but that Tom (me) made him do it. I saw the crowd literally give a nod of understanding and felt their sympathy towards him. How ironic huh? When I walked back into the room I felt their stares of the crowd and I saw the cheeky smile of DW. He got me!

Then people that my parents had met started going in, I got married, and then had two kids. These factors have really stressed them over the last few years. They have even been trying to get my wife to convinve me to stop. But alas, to no avail. They are somewhat resigned to that fact.

I don't see myself stopping, even if I have slowed down a fair bit.

I think it is really important to have the conversations with your family and friends. Tone it down a little but do not hide the fact that both injury or death are possibilities. Explain the physics of what is going on. If they ask about accidents, explaing the root causes and what you are doing to make sure that you wont suffer that same consequence.

In your decision making regarding to jump or not, perhaps you should allow for how the people that love you would react if you went in. Don't do things that are far too risky. Balance your desire for progression and excitement with a little training and safety consciousness.

Stay Safe
Have Fun
Good Luck

Tom

I played the BD04 DVD during my parents' last visit.

surprising reaction. my mother called it exciting. I also had to pause the DVD when I stepped onto the platform. they wanted to be called back into the room...

I know I'm bringing up something a little older, but I just had the most unexpected response from my father.

When I called him today and told him about my first base jump, his reply was, "Why didn't you wait for me to get home this evening so I could watch?"

...and to think, I was scared to tell him about my first jump (which was a hand held three second delay...btw)

HI,

2 questions.
1. are your details correct, that you have had 40 odd skydives ?
2. what kinda object was your jump from ?

Yes, 42 skydives.

My local, legal S.

edit to add: sorry Jaap, but your paper crane is now floating down the Snake River.

http://spaces.msn.com/...hApYj9E6Sg!205.entry

... at least it was a round into the water...

not reccomending this... even if you did eat your wheaty's for breakfast...

I do think there alot of first death courses going on out there (FDC) that might be prob should not be going on.

I feel they could possibly risk the bridge...

Holly...I don't know you...I know something about you in regards to your BASE jumping potential. Let me describe...

You just posted to the BASE community that one of the country's most trusted and competant mentors was willing to put you off a legal object (risking it's status as such if something had gone wrong) with a number of skydives which is considerably less than the general feeling of the community accepts by quite a margin. I know that the argument for a minimum number of guydives is flawed but in general, if some is good...more is better. You made this post knowing that;

A) The ramifications for your mentor could mean a drastic loss of credibility. This would be a huge blow for the reputation of US BASE jumping.

B) Your mentor wouldn't care so why should you.

I doubt it's B).

So let me tell you what I think know about you...

You make poor and flippant judgement calls...and, in this instance, a very public one.

Poor judgement will kill you.

Be smart. Stay alive.

Disappointed,

It's an artificial, random number picked out of the air, and it has led to the entry into base of people who shouldn't be jumping at all and who would never have been allowed in but for having the requisite number of jumps and sufficient dollars in the bank account.


<raises eyebrow> Who was it who only recently made fun of me for generalizing? (And that's a really interesting typo you have there.)

Go to Bridge Day just one year and watch how many several-thousand-jump wonders have crap exits, crap openings and crap landings. In '98, I think it was, one of my friends--a guy with 3000 skydives and one each of all possible ratings--managed to embarrass himself to death (and very nearly kill himself) making his first bridge jump. He was neither unusual nor in a minority.


She was judged and found not wanting by someone who has known her a lot longer than you have and who has sufficient information to determine she was ready. Furthermore, as evidenced by her post, she's not dead.

<curtsies> Your turn.

rl

P.S. Apparently the assumption of who judged her ready is erroneous, but I don't think it makes a difference to either argument.

Where training and preparation are an advantage to the execution of an activity then as a generalization my statement bares pretty close scrutiny.


I'm sure you realize that this is not a robust arguement for the defense, Counselor. You describe an error in spite of extensive experience not because of it. It just highlights that as far as jump numbers and good BASE preparation are concerned that sticking a feather in your a$$ does not make you a chicken.


Perhaps...but my assertion is not necessarily that the requisite ability was missing but that the requisite judgement has been found lacking as evidenced by the chest beating declarations such as "I only have a handful of skydives and I've still done a BASE jump...Nah nah na nar nar."

In a forum full of newbies eager to throw themselves to the dogs, the difference between acting as a role model and not can be the difference between an inexperienced jumper landing safely and that same jumper needing a closed casket.

I know I'm hypocritical...that's just me...so posting a bunch of my old quotes as evidence of me acting contrary to the statement made above will be judged as entirely boring. I know, I had (still have) very few skydives when I began. That doesn't make me a success story. That makes me an exception that proves the rule...as usual...a shining bad example.

Hi Holly
I wasn't meaning to kick the bee's nest by my questions, was just asking out of curiosity,

I don't BASE but like to learn as much as possible about it without being able to do it.

few more questions, you originally said you took a hand held 3 second delay, how high was the bridge ?

1 question for the other BASE jumpers here, having not seen any first time jumps in person but having seen..... a few on video I'm wondering why some first time jumps are static lines and some multiple second delays ?

is it that the beginner jumps I see on tape are from aussie land where objects are usually quite low (bridges below 200 feet), so low skilled jumpers shouldnt free fall them or is it different teaching techniques of different mentors ?

thanks

When my mom found out about my BASEjumping....
She cut me off completetly from having sex with her.....

Good thing BASE704's sister was there to take up the slack(all 8.124 inches of it)(including the 6.124inch extension)

Cesslon, The height of the span has been posted a fair bit here. Since you have been here a while I would suggest you find that answer youself. You might learn a little while doing this. Different objects require different execution. FYI I do not BASE jump yet, but you should already know that by now.

You spelled "bears" wrong.

<makes notation on steadily lengthening list> We can discuss why your generalizations are good and mine are not another time.


But that's not what she did. She was talking about her father's reaction. She made an on-topic post in the correct thread for her comment, and someone asked her about the number of jumps she has, thus taking us off on a different track altogether, which will probably force Tom to either delete all the comments or split off the thread.

I had six fewer jumps than she does, and the decision about my readiness was made by someone older, wiser and more experienced than most of those who post in this forum. The "minimum number of skydives" threshold is a relatively new invention, based more, I think, on the recent influx of...I don't know what to call them...into what was once a microscopic fringe group of total loonies who, as babies, apparently never got tossed into the air quite enough by mum and dad.

The evolution of base parallels that of skydiving in all its aspects. Ask someone like Skratch or Bob Sinclair if they haven't seen all of this before. Example: lo those many years ago, you couldn't jump a square unless you had at least 200 jumps. Ask C-550 or D-346 how things went when they couldn't let go of that idea. It is a force of nature that "youth is truth" and the new blood will always improve on the ideas of the fogeys who preceded them--even if the attrition rate during transition is high.

You're trying to hold back the tide, but that too is the nature of the aged, who think themselves wiser because they have seen it all.


I'm pretty sure I realize that skydivers with a lot of experience have much to unlearn before they can base jump without making fools of themselves (at best). On the other hand, canopy skills are a valuable survival tool, so a static line course and a bunch of low altitude jumps as preparation would get my vote as worthwhile.

<considers taking chicken bait, refrains> Do I really look like a fish to you?


Contradictory, but not hypocritical, as evidenced by your post in reply to mine in the poll about splitting this forum. This is not where the wise come to learn the "right way" to base jump, eh?

But I would never make the mistake of confusing what you write with what you really think.


Continuing to breathe is the ultimate gauge of success, whether one attributes it to luck or skill.


No argument there.

rl

P.S. Congratulations, Holly.

Holly, congradulations for your first jump....and on another level...very bad judgment on the route you choose... I am not there nor do i know the details but from your experiance...42 skydives and your first jump a handheld...i would agree you took a FDC. Sorry but that was not a wise choice. It was a bad one....

Fact is you have zero base canopy experience..

I hope that you are a incredible swimmer as if you got tangled in your lines you could of drowned..

You ...of all people new Tom A. ..which i know told you there is no hurry and did it anyway.....Thats age that can kill you... "Listen to wisdom"

for 42 skydives you still cant understand whats going on or what can happen...Its callled begginners overdrive that tunnels you in to a false sense of security. "its called not listening"

I have seen a guy with over seven thousand skydives almost die on his first skysurf jump.......

You have never had to deal with a cutaway , which is stress situation no matter how calm you are...

i would think that opening time on a base jump is a stress situation. So you flunked there...

You really broke the rules...." That being ..."do not rush in to something that cannot be rushed"...

You have not seen what happens when all goes terroribly wrong...i mean right in front of you.....

I have ..and it's nothing pretty.... when you have pieces of someone all over in front of you and you where just sitting with them 20 minutes before...

Sorry for being hard on you but i only hope to scare you into thinking about what you did..

I hope you stop to rethink and change the path you are taking..

You are 18 years old with a whole life ahead of you....dont rush in and cut it short. You are playing with something that is not a toy and completly unforgiving...

"you are playing with fire and you are covered in gasoline"

I want to jump Norway as much as anybody but the more i listen to experienced base jumpers the more i slow down my thinking . When a guy with 700 base jumps tells you that a Jump off exit 6 in a wingsuit scared the living shit out of him...i think thats something you need to take to heart.

I hope Tom A. comes over to see you and give you the chewing out you need... I am a bit surprised you choose this path being surrounded by the people you are...

I hope you take this as constructive advise form someone who has seen and experienced little more than than you have...

Stay safe and rethink what you are doing.....

All the best , Chris

I first would like to say congrats on your first BASE. I am way off doing mine, so im kinda jealous.

Threads like this (female base jumpers doing new things) always make me think of Tom's thread linked below. Normally I think that the people argueing are jealous, most of the time both parties have some valid points. Life is what you make of it and life is too short to harp on the negatives.

I have one question what is the average number of skydives for people who do the first jump course on this bridge? How many skydives does this mentor normally require, if any?

http://www.dropzone.com/..._reply;so=ASC;mh=25;

Holly.....read this post...follow this link....read...read...read.... or read this...

#63 Lori Barr, July 23, 2002
Cliff Jump
Norway
Wall Strike (in freefall)
Lori launched and lost stability on her first cliff jump. With five previous Perrine bridge jumps and the required amount of skydives Lori is on an organized BASE expedition to Norway. The trip included a site specific BASE jumping course taught by very competent instructors. However, Lori hit the cliff wall in freefall at about 11 seconds. What makes this fatality a little more chilling is the fact Lori did everything right as far as following the current advise on how to get into BASE jumping.

She did everthing right and had over ten times the experience you do.....So ...what where you thinking....

 


Bet you should have been more worried about telling your BASE brothers and sisters, I am guessing you are about to get a internet kicking about starting with sod all experience in skydiving....................


seriously, 40 odd jumps is not ideal to do what you are doing................

I had 500 (with CRW and accuracy) when I went to that span for a FJC, and even then I knew I had a lot to learn about short canopy rides..........................

Hope your luck holds out............

huh?!?

take a deep breath and back away from the keyboard...
this thread lacks any reason for your comments.

Holly did NOT mention jumping anything but her local S.
and she is being guided by someone with vasts more experience than yourself.

it's just not possible to judge her fear level, how well it's controlled, or her preparation from the limited comments made.

so why be so harsh?

and why add the second post when she never responded to the first?

yes I could make and post assumptions about you, but I'll refrain. it just seems so, well, rude.

She did everything right and she died anyway.

So does that mean she was simply unlucky or that the "current advise" [sic] is wrong?

No matter how you look at it, Holly jumped a bridge not a cliff, so the two cases aren't comparable, unless your point has something to do with the "women in base" issue.

More than the evolution of skydiving, the underlying philosophy here is beginning to remind me of what happened when the hippies grew up, got real jobs and had kids of their own.

"It was okay for me, but it's not okay for you" and "I want you to learn from my mistakes" have never been very successful in preventing the behavior you don't want to see in the next generation.

rl

I really dont need to take a deep breath when i see something that is not right...

and yes guided by someone who actually helped her with her experience level....thats not what you will find advise wise in this forum...

Well anyone in there right mind should have a fear level ....control is based on experience..and in this endever of hers.. she has none...

not being harsh...just the truth ...

i responded to another post not hers if you looked..


not trying to be rude either...If i can influence someone to seek a better and safer path than great.. if someoen else is offended by that ...i can live with that.. if it will help someone else.... [;)

They arent assumtions...Holly posts about her skydiving and base exposer and we have PM'ed briefly about these subjects. I was not being rude to her...

No...it is more a case of rushing into something...

6 jumps and then Norway....i tend to think a bit over confident...

Base to me seems about how good you are when all goes wrong not so much when all goes right... Anything is easy when everything goes right...but when all goes wrong..it's then that that experience that takes you to live another day.. Ask any pilot... when the shit hits the fan ...how you react is how good a pilot you are... again..i have been known to be wrong....

Nothing to do with woman. Look at Jill Salo in continuim 1 and 2. That is one solid incredible base jumper that makes it look so easy....

I probally would not have posted to much about her jump if she lived in Maine or Aruba. But she did it in a place she has access to some very experienced and good base jumpers who i know would think that that was not a great choice. I said "Choice" ...

and yes.. i was a surfing hippy that grew up and had kids but still live for my passions. never tell my kids not ok unless they want to go out and surf Mavericks...Then i will instill my thoughts as well as try to get there brain working....

Its all in good fun......

This anecdote goes to show (if number of skydives is a singularly important variable in readiness for skysurfing) that a person should wait until they've got more than seven thousand skydives before doing that first skysurf jump. You must be looking forward to your first skysurf in (if your profile is up to date) 6,400 skydives...

More importantly... Congratulations on your first jump. Be careful out there.

BASE was something I was strictly forbidden from doing by my step-father, who skydived back when BASE was all skydiving gear and black death. So, when I headed out for a jump from a span while visiting back home, I opted not to invite him.

Called home and told them about the jump after the fact, and he was upset that I hadn't invited him. "Yeah, I think it's a stupid thing to do," he said, "but if you're going to do it anyway I want to watch!"

i may have worded it in correctly as to making a point that if you have a lot of experience and things go wrong ..it's that experience that ..will or can help.... saved his ass as he said and yes when i had 400 or so jumps and he saw me with the board...he gave me a mouth full that i took to heart and has kept my ass still alive... i think and as he told me.. if he did not have the experience he had.. he said he would have definetly gone in..

i hope thats a little clearer...maybe not...

She prepared accoring to the accepted wisdom...she did not do everything right, unfortunately.


You're just cranky cuz you're on the rag.

He's been doing death camps for some time. Why would this cause a drastic loss in his credibility?

Because at the time Skin made his post, he didn't know who the culprit was. And Le Roy's post didn't contain the information in the first draft; he added it in during the edit.

By that time all that got done, the thread was already off and running.

rl

Sorry, Tom.

I'm a dick.

No new info there either.

If you've ever seen Radix you know that Shane does "death camp" all the time even for people with no skydives.

This jump was very well planned out, in fact we waited three days for perfect conditions. There were life vests, rescue swimmers, and three very experienced jumpers coaching me.

The delay was decided on because I was jumping a round and we didn't want to risk a random gust of wind (which happen all the time in Twin) blowing me over the land.

I was just comfortable jumping the bridge because I have been around it for 18 years, and I go out there almost every day to watch jumpers. This jump for me was just a little teaser. I don't plan on jumping any other objects, or even the bridge again, any time soon.

Holly Joan

~edit to add comment~
Despite the general "that was not smart, Holly" topic in this thread, I actually really like what points have been brought up. I've heard it all before, but it's all important enough to be said again. I was never planning to do more than this base jump until after a lot of skydives. I know my canopy experience sucks, that's why I jumped a round into the water. Having so many experienced locals and hanging out with, and packing for, so many jumpers, and "over hearing" FJCs, I have gleaned a ton of great information. I made the decision to jump after taking in a lot. I've read "the list." I know what happens when things go wrong, and I'm involved in another dangerous sport (nascar). I felt ready to do one round jump off what is considered by many the best place to make a first jump.

Why even think about doing a jump from someone who does FDC..... This i dont understand... I see on the internet he has a huck doll...did you get one after you jumped??

yes i saw him on TV and seemed like a rodeo star...That should be your first natural reaction to be uneasy... i think that if my first AFF jumpmasters acted like yee hahs...i would not get on the plane...

Planning.... well planning is great if you are experienced in what you are doing....if not ...you are just on for the ride...

ask the Seals that never made it back from there recient mission in Afganistan, planning will not keep you alive only adjust the odds and even then there a thing call"screw the pooch" . I spent 3 years as a ranger in the military and i can tell you alot about planning ...99% of the time it goes wrong....it also make a big difference about who's doing the planning.... IE...idiots.... and you also have poor planning...like lettting someone with 40 some odd jumps jump off a bridge....

delay....well i wont even go there...I will leave that to someone with experience...

Comfortable because you have been around it....what if you lived in the swiss valley....would that make you comfortable to go with 40 jumps and jump there..?

teaser.....watching base videos is a teaser....what you did was not smart....

And for a round.....thats the scarriest of all. i have over 200 in the military and 1....you cannot steer...2 they malfuction allot... and you have 0 experience with the round you where jumping .... and 2 with base jumping in general.....And to boot you say your canopy experience sucks with ones you can steer and you jumped one that you cant.....

Ok, you race cars...you can relate then to someone with an hour of race experience going to Daytona to race the 500....It wouldnt be smart besides if they even would have lived threw it...

And..yeas you can take with you all that you have experienced in life....thats what life is about...

Stay safe and .....slow down.......

All the best you nut...... Chris

The modern technique used in all first jump courses (not death camps) here is a PCA for the first jump. We tend to just keep the extra altitude as a safety margin, with the understanding that a quicker deployed canopy has less time for the students possibly bad body position to screw things up. Unless the object is high enough to track, I'm pretty convinced that a PCA is a better first jump regardless of altitude.

For my FJC at that span with a well known manufacturer I did a 3 sec delay hand held for my first jump............ has this changed?

If I recall your details correctly, yes. The Apex BASE courses have been doing PCA's for first jumps--isn't that who you took your course from?

When I learned, the "standard" was a 2 second, hand held slider down jump.

yes it was with CR, and my and others first jumps were 3 secs hand held freefall, one guy on my course consistantly turned 180 head low in freefall before he pitched.......... - he was a good advert for the PCA!

Holly Joan,

congrats on the jump!
and I'm happy your father took it well...

too bad I missed you when I was up at the potato bridge. I did meet a fellow death camp survivor. he actually likened the event to a well executed stunt (a la fear factor...). his teacher had even forewarned him that he was NOT prepared to BASE.

but he loved his experience. went to the dz for training, and then took a real BASE course.

now I won't recommend this path, but you have access to lot's of friendly, knowledgeable people. just continue using this resource to lower your otherwise elevated risk!

I have a stupid question for you Tom.... Is the reason you use a PCA for ... if the studident has total brain lock and does not throw his pilot chute..?? I.E.... brain lock... ground rush... sensory overlaod.....

I have seen AFF students do this as well as a Navy Seal climb back into the plane from a Cesna 172 on his first static line jump ....No sh%^$T.. I was hanging from the side to video him and could not beleive my eyes as this bad boy climbed back in. And he was hanging from the strut with his feet flying in the wind. When he got to the ground he only remembered that something in his head said no way....and he froze in panic....i think he said the ground at 4000 ft looked like 500 ft or something..


It can happen to anybody......

Not true, they do have steerable rounds in the military, -1B, -1C, SF10-A... at least in my unit... And also though you can't steer a round... you can Slip a T-10 in a general direction


Actually They malfuntion alot less than Squares... I heard a few riggers say it has over a 99% chance of working...


agreed...

ADDED: in no way am I condoning what this individual did...

i was talking about a t-10 and that was over 20 years ago for me...we use to pump the risers to try to manuver them with a rucsack hanging and your wepon strapped to your leg... ..if it did release... you just wabbeled around... trying not to land on top of each other. We had 6 malfuctions in my airborne class...i forget the broken legs and backs but none where walking fo a long time and 3 got discharged. My Halo school got canceled as a butter bar went in on jump # 4 i think it was.... During my tour i think i can remember at least 2 or so every deployment that went bad...They evn had a guy on a deployment to Alaska who streamered in and lived....allot of snow i think it was that saved his ass... All i remember that i hated when they were below 1000 ft and the idiot jumpmaster put us out after or before the intended dropzone...Thank god i was very young and stupid to make it threw that in one piece...

What unit where you in?

In the words of Dennis McGlynn, so that "the parachute is out before your bad body position has time to screw things up."

Many students have problems with exit stability. A PCA (or other quick deployment method) gets a canopy before the student can go head low, head high, off axis, or tumble (or at least before they can do much of it). In general, you want the student to make a couple PCA's and demonstrate a good, stable exit before you put them off for a free fall.

Any actual figures? Just curious cuz I have heard that certain rounds are very reliable but 99% would be a very unreliable parachute indeed. In skydiving terms 99.9% would be about right for squares. (Difference between 1/100 and 1/1000)

The difficulty with rounds v. squares in BASE is that round technology stopped being the focus of development 25 years ago. I don't think we have any real numbers about rounds.

It is my opinion, that a round is generally less consistent than a square in terms of inflation speed, and it is my experience that rounds open slower, but usually harder, than a slider up square canopy.

In terms of malfunctions? I think that if you are over water (which is the case for virtually all modern round BASE jumps), impact under a malfunctioning round is going to be ok. Fast and hard, but generally not injuriously so.

In terms of overall reliability? My gut says that the 20 year old rounds most of us are jumping are less reliable than our squares, but are statistically reliable enough for what we are doing (jumps over deep water) here. I'd bet that a BASE specific round built in the last couple years is going to be better than that, and I'd also say that there are things you could do to build rounds better than we have, but that it's unlikely anyone is going to go to the effort to do this, because the market niche is so small.

And what about those new "jump from the skyscraper in case of emergency" rounds? I heard there is extensive research going on.

I don't know anything about them. I'd love to hear from someone what research is being done on them. Most of the systems I saw were adapting rounds from other uses (like paraglider reserves) rather than actually involving any new research into the round parachute itself.

My parents have known I skydive and love the pictures and videos I've showed them for about 6 years now. When I told them about BASE jumping my Mom replied "you got a parachute right? What's the big deal? Let's see you jump." So we went to the big screen in the basement and showed them BD2004 video. Showed them the first ten mins or so then me and my friends jump. They laughed their ass off. We watched my FJC with three of my good friends and a few other things. My sister and and her family offered to by me jump tickets as they do at my home DZ for my birthday and Christmas.
I am happy to have a very close family, it takes work.