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I'm getting press inquirers about a serious (their words) BASE accident in Alberta, Canada last night, March 31. Has anyone heard anything about it?

NickD
BASE 194

Confirmed. I got a call from the locals this morning. The person involved is busted up, but according to the latest information he will recover.

I'm assuming that the locals will chime in here with more details once they become available.

Best wishes and love to my friend in Alberta. Hope for a speedy recovery!

Hey Nick!

At this point I can only really confirm what Jaap said. There was a building strike here last night. The guy involved is in the hospital with a broken pelvis, but otherwise seems to be doing fine.

Michael

Jump stunt lands Calgary man in hospital
Last Updated Fri, 01 Apr 2005 15:45:34 EST
CBC News

CALGARY - A man who tried to parachute off a Calgary office building is in hospital after smashing through a window on the 24th floor, sending broken glass flying through seven windows in the atrium below.

Police say they were called to the Canada Trust building in downtown Calgary about 11:10 p.m. Thursday night.

They found the 41-year-old parachutist on top of a pedestrian walkway.

He was taken to hospital with non-life-threatening pelvic, abdominal and back injuries.

Charges are pending, according to police.

Emergency officials say it appears the man got caught in a wind current, carrying him into the building instead of away from it as he tried to parachute off in what is known as a BASE jumping stunt.

BASE stands for buildings, antennae, spans and earth. This type of jumping is an extreme sport that involves leaping from a fixed object such as a building, bridge or cliff with a parachute.

Police say the Calgary stunt caused about $5,000 damage to the building.

Copyright ©2005 Canadian Broadcasting Corporation - All Rights Reserved

The one thing you learn is you never learn . . .

You'd think I'd be smart enough not to get hosed by these guys, but I guess as I get older I get more trusting.

Here's the same story after he plugged my comments into it. He cherry picked everything I said to match the story he'd already wrote . . .

http://calgary.cbc.ca/...-base-jumper20050401

>>Extreme sport sends man through building window

Last Updated Apr 1 2005 01:56 PM MST

CBC News

CALGARY – A man trying to jump off the Canada Trust building with a parachute Thursday night went through a window on the 24th floor, and the broken glass in turn smashed through seven windows in the atrium below. Police say they were called to the downtown building about 11:10 p.m. and found the 41 year old on top of a pedestrian walkway.

Emergency officials say it appears the man got caught in a wind current, carrying him into the building. BASE (building, antennae, span, earth) jumping is an extreme sport that involves leaping from a fixed object, such as a building, cliff or bridge, with a parachute.

Nick Di Giovanni, a BASE jumper in California, says leaping off buildings is the riskiest kind of jump. He says a friend of his jumped from an office tower in Los Angeles, and went through a window.

"He was lying on the floor in this guy's office, looking up at this guy's wife's pictures on his desk, and he says, 'oh my God,' and just then some wind caught the canopy, which was outside the window, and it pulled him right through the window again," Di Giovanni said.

BASE jumpers sometimes break the law to attempt a jump, including trespassing to gain access to buildings or other sites. Di Giovanni says most people turn to BASE jumping after trying traditional skydiving and wanting something more challenging.

"We're not little kids, we're not juvenile delinquents," he said. "We're sportsmen and this is our sport, and people don't fully understand it yet."

Di Giovanni acknowledges that it's a dangerous sport, and on his website details 86 people who have been killed attempting jumps.

Related link: Nick Di Giovanni's website

The Calgary man was taken to hospital with non-life-threatening pelvic, abdominal and back injuries.

Police say there was about $5,000 damage to the building. <<

Yikes . . .

NickD
BASE 194

Nick,
was this John Hoover, BASE 95? RIP.

 

460 is talking about the story Nick is quoted telling. I believe it is John Hoover, off WP.

That story of John Hoover reflecting how his life would have looked had he made different choices as he lay on his back on that office floor looking at that picture on the desk of that guy's wife, and after being pulled back out the window by his reinflating canopy, how that thought stayed with him as he repeatedly bounced off the building on the way down, is one of the most poignant, lovely and insightful stories I've ever heard in BASE.

Thank so much Nick for that

Thanks John RIP

PS - Media are scumbags.

g.

Nick, old buddy, hearing you on Canadian radio brought back some fond memories of when we both lived in the Perris Ghetto.

Nothing new except short video and no pirated quotes.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1112393614225_107802814/?hub=Canada

John used to jump at my old DZ and to hear him tell that story was absolutely priceless, including the bit about them driving to getaway and find a hospital to drop him off at in the process. Turns out the hospital was across the street from the building he went through.

RIP, John!

http://www.ctv.ca/...07802814/?hub=Canada

 

Only his girlfriend was there at the time of the accident, and she certainly has other things on her mind right now.

To find out what really happened, I'm afraid we'll have to wait until we hear the story from the guy himself, which could take a while.

The locals have been getting a lot of unwelcome phone calls from the media on this one. If it's important to you that you know the details (such as they are known), you should PM me or crwper.

I live in Calgary where this happened. I arrived shortly after it happened. I made the decision earlier in the day not to jump that night. NOt because of comditions or anything just because I wanted to go for a burger and beers with a lady friend.
The guy in question who I don't feel like naming at this point because he is still in hospital and broken had an off-heading and hit said building. He stayed proactive and fought it all the way to the ground or roof in this case. He tried to get up to get away but couldn't due to a broken pelvis. That is his main injury but does have some cuts and bruises also but nothing too serious.
Police have gear but will be returning it as they do here in Canada. No charges yet but they are coming.
I am not his mentor, just a friend. I beleieve the person who taught him lives south of 49.
He came to worldwide fame because the media nazis are in a feeding frenzy!! For a city of almost a million people not mych happens around here. So when something like this happens they go nuts! Also they go by what emergency vehicles get called to judge the news worthiness of the story. Because he landed on a roof they had to call high angle rescue and ladder trucks. Why you ask?? Because they were not efficient enought to take the elevator up 5 floors and walk out a door onto the roof like the EMT's did. And the bloody police copter couldn't find him with it's FLIR or 10 billion candle power spotlight for several minutes.

HE is healing but it will take some time. I am just really happy he is going to be ok!!!! I have not lost a friend to BASE and I don't care to start anytime soon!!
That's all for now.............

EDIT: Just saw J's post. And yes, again, the media has been nuts!! I was at the hospital until 4am or so that night, Got about 2 hours sleep and then both my landline and cell started ringing and didn't stop until late last night. The media SUCKS!

Yup, it's amazing what ignorant trolls see when they look through the eyes of someone worth a shit.

Edit: Hope for a speedy recovery

I would like to offer our suffering buddy a free copy of my book, BASE 66 - A story of fear, Fun and Frefall. He can read about how we almost died a couple of times back in the 80ies and it might cheer him up. If I send it to you could you deliver it to him?

Jevto

Hey Jevto

That is a generous offer! I am sure he will appreciate it during his recovery period.
I will make sure he gets it straight away when it arrives! PM with address sent....
Thanks

>>was this John Hoover, BASE 95? RIP<<

I miss John, he was the first guy I ever saw wear a full length black trench coat and get away with it . . .

NickD
BASE 194

wish I didn't read CSPA chat- hard to realize there are skydivers in my country that are so "wuffo" to BASE.

I have found the media have a temperment of some mentality when it comes to BASE in B.C. Re: they have a understanding that sensationalizing BASE jumps is not acceptable. I remember a jumper I did fjc training with that annouced she wanted to BASE a building in the centre of Van. city for her 200th. jump. The next year she did this- only she went to the top news reporters to report the time, place she was making her jump, expecting publicity to be awesome....then attempted to make her jump. The media didn't go for it....except back pages of local rags reported BASE jumper was in hospital suffering with broken leg as result of jump off building.

I am so, so fortunate I have known a BASE jumper and grown over years to respect the hell out of him, over and over and over again. When you skydive with a BASE jumper and watch their progress in accuracy year after year giving back to the sport they love -doing tandems. You watch their canopy flight increase with precision- you watch their proffesional demo jumps with pride--you watch their skydiving skills bombard the skydiving community--you watch their birdman flight become supreme--you watch and respect grows, you watch and feel the enthusiam they have with "wuffos" and see young jumpers new in the sport year after year because they have been totally inspired by him. Your favorite video of cave BASE and pics of bridge day are of course, of him.


Then you can feel nothing but "sorry"

for those that do not know at least 1 BASE jumper!



SMiles

I understand this jumper was the student and protégé of........ World Famous Jumper, Miles D.
.
.

Apparently a "nice guy" but sounds like he was pushing it too hard and too fast.

Regardless of skydiving or paragliding background: Accurate self assessment of your skill set = longevity in BASE.

Hopefully the cops will just put it down to a one-off stunt.

Spence (former Calgarian who's slightly off)

Paraphrasing from one of the many news reports, there was a cop being interviewed: "I've been on the force for 17 years, and I know someone else who's been on the force 20+ years, and we've never heard of anything like this. If they have been doing it before now, they've been doing a really good job of keeping it from us." Looks like, in spite of all the times a jump came back to us the long way, we were keeping the right people out of the loop.

Michael

That struck me as well seeing one of those reports.

Our small group was made up of very different personalities but we all adhered to a BASE ethic that kept us under the radar, both in Calgary and Alberta as a whole.

Good luck with the fallout guys

-----------------------------------------------------------------
CITYBEAT - CITY OF CALGARY PRESS RELEASE
-----------------------------------------------------------------

A 42 year old man from Golden, British Columbia, has been charged in connection with the property damage incurred as a result of his base jump from the ****** ***** building on March 31, 2005.

After leaping from the southwest corner of the building located at ### # Street SW, a wind gust blew him into a window on the 24th floor, causing it to break. He then continued his flight and landed on top of the 5th storey glass dome walkway, smashing several other panes of glass. Total damage is estimated at $10,000.00. As a result of his fall he suffered non-life threatening injuries, and remains
in hospital at this time.

7 Fire units, including the CFD High Angle Rescue team, 3 EMS units and 7 CPS units were utilized during the rescue of the base jumper.

Scott ******* has been charged with Mischief to Property over $5,000.00, as well as Mischief Causing Danger to Life. He is due to appear in court in Calgary on May 31, 2005.

(For the non-Canadians, the charges are criminal code offences)

What the Americans would call misdemeaners. The fine will likely be relatively small, but he will be permanently inadmissable to the US.

 

Scott is going to have his fair share of detractors, I'm sure, and God knows I was one of them at one point. Nobody will argue the fact that inexperience might have played an important role in this incident. But each of us takes his own path into the sport, and Scott has followed his. Red Bull is not to blame. Miles is not to blame. And pointing out that you saw this coming sure as hell isn't going to improve matters.

>> How can the media miss the many posts Scott made on this board and the PG pilots board about how great a "teacher" Miles is and how easy they both think base is <<

While your causes in this incident sound probable, you are giving the media too much credit. There is no way they are capable of seeing the difference between the injured jumper, Miles, or any other BASE jumper. The idea some jumpers are "better" than others goes right over their heads. BASE jumping to them is nuts, therefore we are "all" nuts too.

Reporters work on deadlines and usually can't, or won't, take the time to educate themselves. Reporters I talk to now, ask the same silly questions, and draw the same conclusions as reporters I talked to twenty years ago. It seems like nothing in this area has changed. I know how to explain BASE in a positive way to reporters. But, they only hear what they want, and only write the things that fit their pre-conceived notions.

I once thought, years ago, we should have a mechanism in place so when a BASE accident occurs a press release is issued. These press releases, after a few years, would begin to hammer home the point that BASE is a sport and accidents do happen. Maybe it's time for something like that now. These press releases could also be issued when good stuff happens.

Many reporters are lazy, or just too busy, so well written and balanced BASE press releases have a very good chance of being run almost verbatim.

I mean we can write about us, or we can let them write about us . . .

NickD
BASE 194

Sometimes, Tree, shit just happens.

Scott isn't the first person who has been in this situation, and he won't be the last. And if you look at The List, there is no more correlation between "doing it right" and evading disaster than there is "time in sport" or "number of jumps" or anything else you might want to point to as a factor. In fact, there are more than a couple people walking around hale, hearty and whole whose imminent deaths were predicted by many, and many others who are somehow dead when it was impossible that they should ever die.

Miles may or may not be doing the right thing, but this isn't the incident that proves it one way or another.

Heal fast and well, Scott.

rl

I heard it was the "gust of wind" that's to blame....

...Damn that gust - always pushing us back into the objects - always lurking

g.

 

Hey Ray...

I can always count on you to chime in with the perfect scarcastic remark...have you seen Miles' ad in skydiving?

:)
K

... this is getting ridiculous.

QUOTE-“You clearly did not teach Scott correctly, or this would never had happened. I really hate to see base accidents, I've had them myself, and know all to well that shit happens.”-END QUOTE

Huh? This is a logical paradox. If Scott had been taught correctly this would never have happened? Yet you have had BASE accidents... so, were you not taught correctly? Or perhaps it is possible to have a BASE accident, AND have been taught correctly?

An accident has occurred, and there are quite likely things to be learned from it, both from the technical details of dealing with the off heading, to greater questions of proper preparation, training, background, psychological preparedness etc. for a jump.

However, this doesn’t say anything about Miles, Redbull (Redbull? How did Redbull come into this anyway? Janitor suing them for emotional disturbance? Maybe things have gotten this ridiculous in the US, but up here a judge would fine YOU for making his head hurt trying to figure out how you came up with this.) or the validity of skydiving vs. paragliding backgrounds.

Scott did not “blaze his own trail”, into BASE, he just didn’t come from your background. Last I checked, Scott had racked up 50 or freefalls to terminal from his paraglider... sounds like someone getting some training time to me.
This doesn’t indicate that “Scott has demonstrated a very poor approach to BASE”... it just indicates that he has had an accident... with undoubtedly things to learn from that.

Deciding that PG’s pilots with little skydiving experience have a “very poor approach to BASE” on the strength of one accident is silly. By that reasoning, skydiver’s and BASE jumpers have an exceptionally poor approach to BASE, as they appear to be having plenty of their own accidents.

I, for one, am very interested to hear Scott’s own analysis of this. I’m sure that there are things that everyone can learn from this.

Josh Briggs
Canmore AB, CANADA
5 basejumps, 3 skydives, Lots of paraglider time.

To add to this, Can we wait till the individual in question decides to talk about what happened?

Yep, Sh(t does happen, we've all had off-headings, be it from a dropped shoulder or whatever... What makes this any different?

OK there's an awful lot to digest here, but I'm going to throw in my $0.02 ... which I think is a little over 1 pence or 22 pesos last time I checked the exchange rates.

As far as Miles goes, I've met Miles and he seems like a genuinely good guy who's fun to be around. My main beefs were with the choices he and others made which many of us felt was drawing negative publicity to the Potato bridge and endangering access for other jumpers. By all reports that no longer seems to be an issue, so as far as I'm concerned that's water under the (Potato) bridge. I'm looking forward to meeting Miles again and making some jumps with him out there.

I *do* still have a beef with Red Bull. I have boycotted them and will continue to do so as long as their corporate mentality of "Any publicity is good publicity" remains. That said, I think blaming Red Bull for this particular incident is a bit of a stretch.

The main issue here, I think, is whether it's a good idea to teach someone with little or no skydiving experience to BASE jump.

Can a person learn to race Indy cars having never made their way up the smaller racing circuits first? I suppose so, if they took it slow and listened to the advice of accomplished Indy car drivers. Would most Indy car drivers think this is a good idea? I seriously doubt it.

Can a person learn how to BASE jump with no prior skydiving experience? Well, it has been done (I believe by Nick Feteris or Richie Stein... veterans help me out here ), so yes it's do-able. Is this a very good idea? I think most BASE jumpers would agree that it is not.

Yes skydiving and BASE are totally different sports. The only thing we really share in common is a parachute. Still, there are important skills, such as canopy control and body awareness, that skydiving teaches which will help us be better, safer, BASE jumpers. These are skills learned over several hundred jumps, not just a few.

Now, was Scott's lack of skydiving experience a factor here? It's really hard to say not having been there. I can't necessarily fault him for soloing a B, since I've done it myself. However, those were Bs very familiar to me, I never soloed unless the wind conditions were perfect and I had "virtual ground crew" via telephone.

Just from what I've read here, it appears that the wind conditions were less than optimal, at least on the side that he chose to jump from. Would more skydiving experience have made an impact? Maybe, maybe not... at least as far as how his canopy flight choices and responses go. Again, I wasn't there so it's really hard to say.

Would having an experienced BASE jumper around to assess the situation have made a difference? This seems more likely, though again, it's hard to say not having been there.

This could be a simple matter of all the correct decisions being made, but S$%^ happened, or it could be a situation of someone with far too little experience getting in way over their head. Hard to say at this juncture.

Obviously something went wrong, and when something goes wrong there are lessons to be learned. I'd like to hear Scott's story and maybe we can all piece together the lessons to help others in the future.

This is how we've gotten to where we are, and it is how we will continue to evolve and hopefully all be better, more knowledgable jumpers in the future.

Hey Ray...
I can always count on you to chime in with the perfect sarcastic remark...have you seen Miles' ad in skydiving?
:) K
...................................

Strange that you mention that Karen. Why, Yes I did.
Well I might as well chime in with some more remarks, observations and possible Sarcasm.
There were Four different BASE advertisements in this months Skydiving.
The add :
Join the Pro's in the Circus. ...with the world's greatest BASE Jumper.
I thought it was very flamboyant, colorful. A Bold advertisement for BASE instruction.
Quite different from the, Asylum, Apex BASE or Morpheus Technologies adds
that were in Skydiving. It was nothing to out of the ordinary of all other advertisement that
was taken out by others in Skydiving as a whole.

I am self employed and have a small business and I got to say that an add taken
out and displayed to the public reflects much about the Owner and there personality.
I thumbed through Skydiving Mag. this months issue and looked at each one to
get a feel of what kind of add & First Impression that I get & what catches my eye.

Miles Daisher - Join the Pro's in the Circus. ...with the world's greatest BASE Jumper.
Asylum designs - Commit Yourself
Apex BASE - Everything BASE
Morpheus Technologies - Go the distance

What is each add trying to say ? What does is that business owner trying to reflect
to the public ?
Is, Join the Pro's in the Circus ...with the world's greatest BASE Jumper. going to draw
a different kind of Personality or Skill Level or Recklessness to that BASE instruction ?

What responsibility does a, single BASE Instructor or Base Instruction course have
Before of After that person leaves and walks away from it's instruction ?

Jumpers go back to His or her own Base Environment. They Make decisions, Make jumps
Make mistakes and sometimes get maimed or killed.
Was Scott suppose to be BASE Jumping ? Apparently YES. He went through a
BASE course, Looked @ an object, Packed his own Container, Stood on top of a building
and made the decision to Exit.

Karen : I would be interested in hearing your opinions on this.

Tree : Miles is probably a nice guy and is good @ what he does, but
No one Ever can See It Coming & Everybody Blazes there Own Trail into BASE.
Red Bull has nothing to do with it. Miles D. has nothing to do with Scotts accident.
Other that he should have never given a BASE jump course to him in the beginning solely
on the grounds that he did not have the experience back himself up.

Mr. Air Canada :Josh Briggs
Canmore AB, CANADA
5 basejumps, 3 skydives, Lots of paraglider time. :
Your Post Caught my eye. After reading your Post I am sure you are a nice guy & good @ what
you do but I am going to say this as nice as I know how.
You do not know your Ass from a Hole in the Ground when it comes to BASE, BASE instruction
& Especially the desired amount of MINIMAL SKILLS to approach BASE.
You do not have the acquired BASE skills to back your mouth up. Yet.

Now Listen Up: I do not want to be, Captain Blatantly Obvious.
I will explain this as nice as possible to everyone that has a brain & let everyone on this, Well Known Fact.
Paragliding, Skydiving & BASE Jumping are Three Different Disciplines & the only thing they have
in common is a fucking piece of Nylon that is Inflated over you head to STOP you from Dying
when you are achieving the rewards of the Discipline that you are doing @ that moment.
also: Anyone who does not know this is a fucking Moron & should Never attempt to do any of these
Disciplines with out the proper instruction and guidance.

All BASE jumpers BLAZE there Own Path. BASE jumpers will Jump & thing will go Wrong
& BASE jumpers will continue to HIT things.
the most Sorry-Ass Excuse I know that you can tell yourself is, ...Shit Just Happens.
.
.

But it does.

Not all consequences are foreseeable. Failure analysis may prevent repeats, but there will always be more than one way to fuck up the same exact jump.

Which is why it is not only knuckleheads who die untimely deaths.

rl

Whilst this is certainly true, so is the fact that if you delve back through the events preceding a consequence you will see that the consequence was absolutely preventable.

Decisions made...consequences determined.

PS sorry for disagreeing with you R. Please don't beat me up.

even as i think shit just happens sometimes i must say that im not surpriced that it happened.

I wont Question Miles for his training im sure he knows what his doing,but i guess he forgot to teach a few lessons,even as this object strike were from an offheadding other of us might aswell had spanked in aswell.

I think Scott should have been told that soloing his first B aint the way to do it..

Im in the true belive that none pof us likes to get injuryed or bustet but it happens.

Heal fast Scott

Miles pleace teach your student evrything before you let them play the game them self..

There is one other facet about this BASE jump which is causing concern among the local skydiving population. Calgary has been the site of two recent inquiries into skydiving deaths over the last couple of years, in fact the last one (which took about a year to work its way through the court) just finished up its testimony on the day of this jump, and sent the judge back to his chambers to mull it over....

The skydivers in the area, and indeed in Canada, since this is the third inquiry in that many years or so, are concerned that this is another bad example that will possibly lead to increased government intervention. And the papers seem to play it up that way.

Perhaps if this person had been a skydiver he may not have jumped a building in this particular city at this particular time? Considering he was not a local anyway? (He is apparently from BC)

Not necessarily my opinion, I'm just throwing it out for comment.

Hi everyone,

Being a very inexperienced BASE jumper compared to most of you I do have a suggestion. Couldn't we send the poor guy Scott some positive energy so that he heals better and quicker instead of fighting it out within the community? I believe the last thing Scott needs is to get news that everybody is debating about why he hit the building, why he shouldn't have, what he did wrong, how he screwed up, how he missjudged that and how he missjudged this etc. Let's support our collegue instead.
Jevto ( a very old fart from the 80ies)

Hey man,
On a side note (sorry for the hi jack TA)
NICE BOOK!! Thank YOU for writing and sharing it!
Blair
BASE 700

I think there is a misunderstanding here. Scott had two ground crew. He was the only jumper at the exit point, but he did have backup on the ground. Also, this wasn't his first B. As I count them, it was at least his third. Not to say he's super-experienced, but let's not kid ourselves by thinking the causes of this accident were simple.

Perhaps Scott would have benefited from having a more experienced jumper at the exit point, but maybe not. A this point it's unkown whether the cause of the accident was body position, winds, or just something that came out of nowhere--we've all had off-headings we couldn't explain, and it would be foolish, I think, to assume this doesn't also happen to jumpers taught by Miles. Does anyone here seriously believe they are immune to building strike because they were trained by the "right" people?

In my limited time knowing him, it has struck me that Scott is the kind of person who has to learn something for himself. Is this the safest/easiest way to get into BASE jumping? That's a whole other discussion. Will debating that question make any difference at all in Scott's learning style? I think we'd have to be fairly self-important to believe Scott would adopt our learning style any faster than we would adopt his.

As for the different routes one can take to BASE jumping... I think it's obvious that a well-prepared paraglider is on equal footing with a well-prepared skydiver in this sport. If I was going to give advice to a beginning skydiver who wanted to get into BASE as soon as possible, I'd tell them to focus on canopy skills and rigging. I certainly wouldn't tell them how handy it will be if they can do a style set in under 15 seconds, or nail a diving exit. We all know that the exit in BASE is mainly gymnastic, and has little in common with a skydiving exit.

The causes for this accident are probably quite simple, but it will be a little while yet before Scott can share those causes with us. In the mean time, I think casting about at the usual supsects is probably going to get us nowhere we haven't already been.

Michael

I originally wasn't interested in participating in this thread other than reading it and following it. But my brother lives in Calgary and he's let me in on some extra information (and my brother is aware of my BASE jumping activities). It turns out that the winds were 20-30kts with unpredictable gusts that night. Now I'm pretty new to BASE myself and agree with Ray Losli that sometimes shit just happens. But this fellow was "not too smart" in my brothers words for jumping in these WX conditions and I think I might just have to agree with my whuffo brother here. It's one thing to have an off heading opening on a B during no-wind conditions (the shit happens part of BASE), but any one of us who were taught by knowledgeable people (and paid attention to the instruction) knows that jumping Bs in wind is a no-no. Anyway, I'm done here. I don't want to bash the injured person any more because one day you guys could be bashing me from an accident I get involved in. I hope the injured jumper heals so that he can resume his jumping career (using better judgement this time).

Rest assured the local skydiver/BASE jumper population is doing plenty of BASE jumps in spite of the ongoing inquiry. I can't believe skydivers are seriously suggesting that BASE jumpers should put their sport on hold because of an issue which has been carrying on for years. If the inquiry had taken place in the middle of the skydiving season, am I to assume that the local dropzones would shut down for the duration?

No disrespect intended to the families of those who have died at Jim's dropzone, and I understand this is not necessarily the personal view of the poster. It just kills me that skydivers are seriously suggesting this has anything to do with them.

Michael

The winds were about 20 km/h at the airport that night, but they were 9 km/h at Canada Olympic Park. As the locals know, downtown sits in kind of a depression which means winds here can sometimes be radically different from what they are at the airport, which is basically on bald-ass prairie.

Michael

My brother lives very close to downtown and as a former resident of Calgary myself (I still own a home in that city even though I don't live there), I too know what sort of wind conditions which can prevail there. Now if you thinking jumping Bs in wind isn't a bad idea? Hmmm ... well ... I have nothing further to say.

By the way Michael, we've met each other and I like you and your bro.

NO! NO! NO!
You're all are missing the point entirely!
Its not Red Bull and Miles and proper training ethic to blame at all!
There I got the last word! Now don't reply anyone so it stays that way or else bothering to post on these forums will be pointless.

edit to remove personal attacks and inflammatory comments ~TA

Hey!

Sorry, I think I probably came across wrong. This whole thing's kind of got my back up, so perhaps I'm more defensive than I need to be.

To be honest, if I was going to sit in a stairwell for a few hours hoping for a jump, I probably would not have chosen that night because I wouldn't say the odds were good. Conditions were certainly unstable.

I suppose I just want to head off any assumption about conditions at the exit point, as long as the only person who really knows what those conditions were remains in hospital.

Again, sorry if I bit your head off there.

Michael

 

Michael

I find your expressed points of view on this quite incongruous with the experience implied in your profile.

Maybe because you have 1200 skydives, you have forgotten what your skills and awareness were like when you had none, when you had 50 and when you had a few hundred more skydives.

I find it very surprising that no-one has pointed out in the paraglider vs. skydiver experience/skill/preparedness debate that one glaring difference between the two actvities is that skydivers deploy a packed parachute, much like basejumpers do.

How do you develop the awareness, familiarity and ability to react during deployment that a switched-on skydiver with a few hundred jumps should have, by paragliding?

The simple answer is you can not. Those who have a few hundred (and I do not mean 150 or 200, I mean 500 or more) skydives are going to be worlds better prepared during deployment and opening than a paraglider with a few thousand hours paragliding and only minimal, if any skydiving experience.

Being a paraglider with vast amounts of canopy time and far superior (to us lowly skydivers) canopy flying skills, does not help you much if you never get the chance to fly your canopy because something happened during deployment and you had insufficient awareness and skills during that phase of a BASE jump to deal with it.

As you well know deployment is one of the most important parts of a BASE jump, especially with a solid object behind you, why would someone want to enter the world of BASE with this glaring deficiency in their skillset?

I'm not saying that's what happened with this incident - I was not there, so I can not say what happened.

I'm saying this is an area where paragliders are at a great disadvantage to experienced skydivers.

IMHO the proper way to prepare oneself for BASE is something like this:
- the highest skydiving licence your national association issues (except maybe in the UK, where you need 1000 jumps for a D, a C at 500 will do)
- PRO, EJR, demo rating (whatever your association calls theirs) and 50 demo jumps that require the rating, using your BASE canopy
- compete at nationals in accuracy, once again, on your BASE canopy
- 10 or more CRW jumps, on your BASE canopy
- riggers rating and a number of reserve repacks for others

anything less than this and you are taking shortcuts around valuable learning experience

I was stupid enough to start BASE with less than this experience and I have been lucky enough to have gotten away with it so far. I am actively working on gaining this experience and I know that when I do I will be significantly better prepared than I am now at 470 skydives and 106 BASE jumps.

I think you have likely forgotten how low your level of awareness during deployment was 10 years ago, when you had only 50 skydives.

For me that's only 3 and a half years ago and I think I remember how oblivious I was then.

I do not regard myself as experienced yet and I seriously suggest to anyone with less experience than I suggested above to gain some more before taking up BASE.

The list of people who were glad they waited and gotten more experience is as long as the list of those who did not wait and now regret it.

cheers
sam

Sam,

You're quite right. I've been thinking about that particular aspect (skydivers dealing with packed parachutes opening) quite a lot recently, but I have absolutely overlooked the hands-on-the-risers reaction that hundreds of CRW jumps, in particular, have given me.

It has also been my experience that, although skydiving does not imply sound rigging knowledge, a heads-up skydiver with hundreds of BASE jumps likely has more experience with all the equipment that comes along with a packed parachute.

That having been said, there are certainly a lot of skydivers who have not developed such a quick reaction on opening, or who are not really all that familiar with their own gear. On the flip-side, there are a handful of paraglider pilots who I would say are particularly well-prepared for BASE jumping. Neither skydiving nor paragliding experience should be taken alone as suitable preparation for BASE.

Thanks again. You make an excellent point.

Michael

Heya i do agree that bashing Scott,Miles or Redbull dont help anyone however if bashing them will save another person to make the same mistake again i do belive its all worth it.

I do feel sad for Scott,it cant be fun laying there knowing a masive bill will arrive by the post one of theese days. its not what he need.

All i hope is that people out there learns from this sad mistake so it wont be dublicated...No matter if it were you,me or Scdott making a mistake...

I edited my post to include a riggers rating, as I totally agree that rigging knowledge is absolutley vital. I have completed my observed reserve packs and will be doing my rigger A this year.

I did mean to have it in there the first time around.

You're a real smartass, y'know, but I've passed on the cat o'nine tails, and you'll have to beg your beating from the successor rope mistress. :)

Email follows.

As cleverly as you did that, I'm sure no one is paying close enough attention to what you wrote to realize what you said.

What I find discouraging is that I am somehow on a "side" of this argument that I want no part of. Plainly stated, I agree with Tree about the underlying issue. I'm just not so sure as he is that the underlying issue is the issue in this case, and the examples I would use to make my argument are not such that I would choose to discuss publicly anyway.

But those who rewrite--or allow the revision of--the lessons of history are doomed to forget them. [sic]

Perhaps once Nick publishes and the past becomes less fluid thereby, we can stop having these arguments and simply refer to a repeat incident by chapter name or number and leave it at that. Or maybe the fatality list needs the addition of a "near miss" section.

And wouldn't that be enlightening.

rl

I think that non-fatal incidents are often overlooked in this sport. We only see the major screwups, but I think there are lessons to be learned even if you do so much as bruise your pinky toe on landing.

Occasionally people point out that Nick's list proves there is no correlation between experience and accident-rates, because there are many experienced jumpers on the list.

Aside from the fact that these experienced jumpers are pushing it more, I think the conclusion falls short anyway simply because it excludes all non-fatal accidents.

I would not be surprised at all if there was a strong correlation between experience and non-fatal accidents, and would love to see more analysis in this direction.

Unfortunately, there is little bookkeeping in this area, and few people post on the forum when they "merely" break a leg.

I recall one extensive accident report from BASE813, which was very impressive! Rest assured that as long as my body is still capable of moving my fingers over a keyboard, I will bore you all to death with my accident report. When that time comes...

Cheers,

Jaap

More flame war removed. ~TA

I will try not to beat up on the injured in this post as I am sure he has taken enough but I would like my point to be considered.

~Taking people well below the skydive grade into the BASE environment is irresponsible to the person you tell is OK to do it, and to the people around you that you call a community. If you want to forever be known as a bunch of screwups, keep this up.
~When you as a BASE jumper do things well beyond your skill level without considering the consequences, you let your community down - see point one.

This sport let's you do what you want, and when you want within basic reason but if we don't look out for each other and consider some of our actions we will always be fuck ups to the public. In this case I see poor judgement, poor training, and poor mentorship.

To whomever in this thread posted that 50 BASE jumps is not low level skill with zero skydives and only paragliding experience your fucked in the head, sorry. I also agree with whoever said we should not be advertising into BASE we should react to people looking for it.

Japp makes a killer point, I think the injury to experience list would tell a different tale of things.

Hi Tree,
Thanks for setting the record straight on all this, it's been a really big help for me. I think I was confused before but now that I know Miles, Red Bull, and learning to BASE jump with paragliding experience are bad I will try to die in my sleep tonight because I am closely involved with all three. My simpleton paraglider brain would have never made the conection that Red Bull was responsible for that janitors emotional health. Gosh, it has me wondering what other bad things RB is responsible for but I guess I won't have to wonder because you'll point it out to me.

Also, thanks for setting the record straight on Cliff H. By your rational I guess you probably aren't a real BASE jumper either.

Othar Lawrence

edit to remove PA's ~TA

edit to remove personal attacks and inflammatory comments ~TA

This thread has been becoming really productive. Get well Scott. Give us some real details from your jump if you have the time/will to do so.

nic

-the remark about the vatican having an opening, very mature.

I have a question for miles: Who is "MEAT?" Your ad in the mag says to call "MEAT." I'm not sure I want to learn to BASE from a guy called MEAT.

And you guys really truly believe that these forums are ever productive?
HELLLLLOOOO!

I'm just wondering. Was the moderator chap sponsored by an energy drink company or taught by the world famous guy? I remember he splatted his guts in Idaho, jumped exit points there that were frowned upon by locals, busted his back on sacred Indian ground, and femured in Europe.

Were that blinc dude and the devil horns bloke also taught by the world famous guy? I remember they burned the park.

I remember the world famous guy and his friends doing the sickest jumps.

I don't remember Tree from anything. Never heard of him.

Forum search found this-
http://www.dropzone.com/...i?post=368808#368808

Starting to smell like turd slinging in here. Isn't the internet fun?

Happy hucking-OJ

All,

This is obviously a very contentious thread, and resorting to name calling is not going to help. I'm very disposed to let this discussion run it's course, and make it as productive as possible.

I will not stand for (a) people making personal jabs at Scott (as I think he's down enough without being kicked by a bunch of folks on the internet), or (b) people making random personal attacks that don't contribute to the discussion.

Please, calm down. Feel free to discuss the incident. Do not call each other names, or make useless, trivial comments.

Shane,

This thread was actually looking like a useful, productive discussion with a minimum of name calling. Then you began posting a string of name calling, innuendo, and general silliness. None of your posts included any relevant information, useful discussion, or mature thoughts. Perhaps if you think that there is no effective communication here, you ought to go elsewhere. Personally, I think it's posts like the one's you've made in this thread that reduce or eliminate effective communication.

Accordingly, I've banned you from this forum for 14 days. If and when you come back, try to contribute to the communication signal, rather than the static noise.

Tree,

The fact that Shane is trying to draw you into a flame war is no reason to degenerate to that level. You are contributing real discussion here, so I won't ban you. But consider this your last warning in this thread.

Othar,

You've got good thoughts and points to make. Interjecting silly comments and slinging turds (in your words) doesn't help.

When it looks like other people are degenerating into flames, throwing yourself into the fire is pointless. Why not stand back and continue the real discussion with those who are interested.

As with Tree, consider this your last warning in this thread. There are lots of good things being said and discussed here. Let's try to have that discussion without the turd slinging.

Everything you've posted here is personal attacks and flames.

What's the point of trying to side track the discussion into that? I see a lot of people here trying to have an adult conversation. You're not one of them.

I've banned you from this forum for 14 days.

Actually, they are remarkably productive when people actually have mature discussions.

I can see why you don't ever find the threads you participate in productive.

Your memory appears to be faulty, actually. There are several factual inaccuracies there.

http://calgary.cbc.ca/...-base-jumper20050404



The really worrisome thing here is the charge of "mischief causing danger to life."

Under the applicable criminal code, this carries a potential penalty of life imprisonment:

I think this is a very important point that hasn't really been considered enough.

Paragliding can teach canopy skills. But the most important (read: dangerous) part of a BASE jump is during and immediately after opening. Is skydiving the best way to learn to deal with deployments? Or is it really a "must learn by doing in BASE" kind of thing?

I also wonder how a paraglider's experience dealing with collapses and the like can translate. There are obviously skills developed there that may have some transfer value into managing a canopy during deployment. But how much transfer value I don't know.

Actually Tom, what you and your little crew of whiners consider to be productive really isn't. Most base jumpers but the select few on this forum know this. That's why almost everybody who base jumps never post here. Everyone thinks that these places are for idiots. You guys probably have no idea what most jumpers think of this place because they won't say it to your face. These forums are good for a few laughs and to try and express your authority and to make few enemies. That's about it. I thought differently when I first started posting here. Thought it would be educational and good way to meet other jumpers but its not. You have to be on Tom's team of Nerdlingers in order to not get banned and to even be able to have a post stay up. Of course nobody will even read this since Tom will just delete it.

Shane,

If you persist in creating additional logins to bypass the forum ban, I will delete all of your logins.

I have banned your IP address from posting in this forum for 14 days.

Ok, now that I've spent a bunch of my time doing the babysitting chores, let me try to form some real thoughts on the actual topic.

I see several issues that might be related, but not necessarily.

The issues that don't really relate to this incident so much (I'll leave those for now, but I think they might be interesting topics of discussion for other threads):

1) Effect of sponsorship and high profile jumps, and specifically the influence of Red Bull on BASE.
2) Preparation of non-skydivers (specifically paragliders) for BASE
3) Overall effect on BASE of an influx of non-skydivers into the sport, as a result of a commercial operation aimed at this end



Issues that may be related to this incident, but semi-independent of each other:


Relating to the jumper:

1) The jumpers level of skill and preparation at the time of the accident

I have no idea what the jumper's overall skill set was like prior to the accident. Had he properly set his DBS? Had he practiced object avoidance? We don't have the answers to these questions (and won't, until and unless he provides them). I won't speculate on whether or not he was adequately prepared for this jump, but will say that I expect his level of canopy skill would have been higher than that of most BASE jumpers at his relative level of BASE experience (due to his extensive paragliding experience). Perhaps if anyone knows whether or not he had drilled object avoidance, they can shed some light on this.


2) The jumpers level of skill and experience relative to the jump

In general, I'd say that a jumper with less than 100 jumps is unlikely to have adequate low, solid object experience to be soloing (with ground crew, in this case) a building. While I can't say for certain, I'd suspect that this particular jump may have been an over-reaching of the jumpers skill set at the time.


3) The jumpers judgment in undertaking the jump

This relates to (3), above. If the jumpers skill set was inadequate to the technical demands of the jump, did he exercise poor judgment in making the decision to exit? Again, it's hard to say without a better idea of the jumpers skill set.



Relating to the jumpers formal BASE training and education:

1) The FJC instructor's teaching of technical skills to the jumper

Honestly, I don't think this was a problem. As far as I can tell (both from observation and gathering information from others), the FJC teaching of this jumper on the technical aspects of BASE was fully up to the accepted level of first jump courses standard in the industry. I don't think that there was any inadequacy in the jumper's FJC preparation, or at least no more so than is the case with anyone else passing through our current FJC system (my thoughts on the adequacy of our dominant training scheme are another matter, for another discussion). Whatever the level of the jumpers skill at the time of the accident, his technical BASE skils when completing his formal instruction were at least on par with those of any other beginning jumper at that level.



2) The ethical and "approach to BASE" transfer (conscious or unconscious) from student to teacher

I think this is a greatly overlooked aspect of BASE training. We all carry around attitudes imparted by our interactions with others. Our attitudes about BASE are often greatly formed by the attitudes of our initial instructor. Instructors who push the limits, ignore the evolved ethical standards, or whatever, are more likely to teach students who do the same (note that I personally believe this works in reverse, too). In this case, the student was taught in a setting that encouraged pushing the limits (some students in this FJC have, for example, performed unpacked jumps as early as their 3rd jump, and students have also been encouraged to make some relatively poor ethical choices in their selection of jumps during the FJC). I do believe that these factors may have contributed to this incident, although to what extent is unclear. Every student will be pre-disposed to various behaviors, and influences imparted by their instructor only go so far. From all reports (and from my personal observations), this was a case of the pre-disposition and the imparted attitudes reinforcing each other to help shape the new jumpers approach to, and path forward in, the sport.


3) Actual specifics of this accident:

Truthfully, I don't think these are particularly important to the underlying issues, but it is my understanding that the 20-30 mph winds reported in this thread disagree with the report of the jumper. I believe that the jumper reported wind had died off prior to exit, and that it was light enough to most likely not be a factor in causing the 180. At any rate, real discussion of the mechanics of the accident probably ought to wait until the jumper can give us an actual firsthand account of the accident (should he choose to do so).


I'll try to write more later. I've just noticed that this thread looks like it needs more moderating, which reduces the amount of time I can actually spend communicating.

 

I had a bad BASE accident in 1997. I shattered my femur and I could have died. I don't think it would have happened if I had been more current and more experienced in canopy control, that I could and should have learned in a skydiving environment. At the time, I had 133 base jumps and ~80 skydives.

^^ I think it takes a lot to be that honest to yourself and about yourself, thanks for posting.

Most injuryes happens becours of the pilot(inkluding my injury),only thing to do is to learn by the mistake and only by looking towards yourself you can jump safly again.
If you blame evrything else for your injury you probaly dont have a clue about what happened to you(whith small exeptions ofcourse)

I got injured because I fucked up.........

I think that jaapsuter made a really good point in an earlier post (sorry, I don't know how to quote you here). He stated the importance of discussing non fatal incidents and I totally agree. In my opinion, analyzing the non fatal ones are going to provide a lot more info. because A) There is a heck of a lot more of those than the fatal ones and B) the person involved in the incident has lived to tell about it. Therefore I would like to encourage everyone to openly discuss incidents and problems in their base life. I also think that a formal way of reporting non fatal incidents would help. does such a thing exist? should we create one? sorry if this is a little off topic.

I tried to do this with my accident report, and EvilIvan also did the same after seeing my report - but I did not get any feed back on whether my report was worth doing. In the end I guess people either thought "why bother?" or thought I was just trying to get attention.

I would love to read accident reports similar to mine to find out more information on how accidents are actually happening and the reasons behind them and then perhaps make analysis of them.

I believe that most accidents are jumpers fault and would like to know if the same mistakes are being made time and time again and perhaps find a common factor.....But maybe I look into things too much........

I just looked that thread up again, and I saw a lot of positive replies. I'd post a link here, but don't want to make it too easy for the media (they're on here).


I highly doubt anybody thought you did it to get attention.

The number of people that thought your accident report was useful doesn't matter. It's the number of accidents it helped avoid. If there is only one base-jumper that slowed down because of your write-up, isn't it already worth it then?

I love reading your posts Jaap, your wise beyond your years.

I'd swear you were Tom Aiello if it wasn't for the name.

Rest assured I'm a total ass in real life.

It's a shame that posting whore-dom doesn't translate into base-jumping skills.

I can see where people could be turned off by the idea of posting their incidents in a general base forum. A lot of people probably don't want to put their story up for the public to read with the reason being that they don't want to come off as someone talking about their bad-ass harrowing survival epic. maybe people would be more receptive to the idea if there was some sort of system for reporting that was independant from the base zone. Maybe a seperate forum on blinc? Or maybe an entire website not unlike nick's? If somebody had the ambition to start something like that it would have the potential to be very helpful, especially to a novice like myself. Just ideas...

look at blinc i think we had a loong post once about peoples fuck ups,inkluding mine and 813´s.. sorry cant borther to dig it up but do a search there and youll find some.

Mac i think you fucked up,and did so becourse to get the attention,now you kicked me in the balls by your latest edit which i cant dublicate as i shipped YOU my only 9.0 vers of pinnecal,and i need a tool from there.
Hope you´ll be forced to listen to classic drum n bass the rest of your life...

oh the above is a personal attack on mac i hate the bastard,he even smell worse than i do

(ps mac,im not much online at this point,could you mail me a copy of the above and the good qually vid you made)

Rest assured that as much as I really want to start base jumping, the more incident reports I hear, the more I'm willing to wait until my canopy control and accuracy is perfect.

Evn though one part of me really wants to go Idaho and take FJC as soon as I can, another part of me is telling me to instead spend my money on jumping and perfecting this before I go onto someething even more dangerous....

I'm sure there are quite a few people reading almost all posts; we're just not responding since there's really nothing for us to say...

....which is why I only offered mine to people who PM'd or emailed me... But I do think its a good idea.

....dammit, there's a joke in here somewhere....




Quickdraw, I think I have some of your stuff that Faber left behind - looks like a couple of dildos and some butt plugs. PM me your address so I can return them...

do i really sound like that? lol

Faber said they were too small for him, even after wrapping all the gaffer tape around them.

I'll see if i can get down that way sometime soon and pick em up.

How about, "Get you tongue out of that mans ass"

I would like to ask a fairly technical question with regards to this incident and the weather native to Calgary. I happened to be up that particular evening here in Calgary while my daughter had a severe temperature and so I saw the relatively varying wind conditions of the whole nite and noted them because that's what people who love/hate wind do when all you think about is where will you be standing on your next jump.

The city of calgary is notorious for it's chinook conditions and from wedensday to friday there was a chinook arch covering the city. As 587 and crwper will attest this can create an interesting instability in the region with respect to the existance of wind or lack there of. However, over lunch time discussion with crwper i asked the question...IN a city that can have rather unpredictable winds during chinook type activity, if you are standing atop of a building and feel nothing for wind is there a possibility that the bernouilli effects can bring higher velocity winds at the midpoint of the buildings. I guess what I am asking the forum is how much experience is out there to suggest that you can have much greater winds in and amongst the buildings as compared to what may seem like a little on top? Given the recorded conditions as listed in crwpers posting with 20km/h or so at the airport 10 km to the NE of the jumppoint and 9 km/h 10 km NW of the jump point there was evidently wind. The following morning recorded winds gusting 50km if I am not mistaken, Do any of the more experienced building jumpers have anything to say and does this lend hand to why jumping buildings in a city environement brings more caution with respect to wind conditions.

My feelings with respect to this incident is that I feel that it sucks when any of my brother or sisters of BASE get hurt in the activity, regardless of where the jury will assess the blame. or where the political environement is taking the popularity vote. That said, my favorite aspect of BASE is that it governs itself accordingly and only allows for so much poor judgement or repeated ignorance. The beauty of that aspect is that the truth of this incident can bring awareness but not righteousness and the only thing beyond that is your next jump! C-YA!

Kris
CYGNUSBASE

It's true.....he is a total ass!! (Is it a personal attack if I just agree with his statement?)

LOL- just kidding. Sunday night was awesome dude! Looking forward to Friday!! C'ya then my friend

Comments like this shortly after a post about another guy having his tongue up my ass are going to make people wonder what the hell we were up to.

Great...

Yeah, Friday will be good.

Always. The concrete canyons channel wind around. If you walk around a block in a big city and note the wind direction and intensity at each corner, it's quite educational.

That's why we drop WDI's of whatever kind. I'm assuming that the jumper in this incident did so because I can't imagine jumping a building without doing so.

>>Paragliding can teach canopy skills. But the most important (read: dangerous) part of a BASE jump is during and immediately after opening.<<

Over the years I have taken more than a few experienced paraglider pilots through AFF.

Up to deployment they are just like any other student, but after deployment they tend to have issues. They consider our student canopies more like the low performance wings they may have learned paragliding on, and they stop listening because they think they already know what you know. One lesson of aviation lost on many is the big differences in flying machines. It's a human nature problem and it takes an experienced instructor to recognize and deal with.

I'm sure there "is" from time to time a "Best BASE Jumper in the World." They way you'll know that person is you'll never here that boast from a sponsor, an advertisement, or from that person personally. You'll only hear it from his or her peers . . .

NickD
BASE 194

wow i didnt think of that... i am sure this "idea" applies to many other areas too!

1) Effect of sponsorship and high profile jumps, and specifically the influence of Red Bull on BASE.
2) Preparation of non-skydivers (specifically paragliders) for BASE
3) Overall effect on BASE of an influx of non-skydivers into the sport, as a result of a commercial operation aimed at this end
__________________________________________________

Anbd as I said, there are a bunch of skydivers in Calgary who think: 4 effect on skydiving (via on-going inquiry) of an influx of non-skydiving BASE-jumpers into the newspapers.
__________________________________________________

I won't speculate on whether or not he was adequately prepared for this jump, but will say that I expect his level of canopy skill would have been higher than that of most BASE jumpers at his relative level of BASE experience (due to his extensive paragliding experience).
__________________________________________________

Do para-gliders exhibit any of the same characteristics of parachutes. Parachutes are trimmed and sized differently simply to do their job - open quickly and get you down to the ground, while paragliders are designed to float turn quickly to keep you up in the air. Characteristics to me seem very different, even in landing. What is the correlation?

i agree he is an ass in real life - he's also my partner (B.A.S.E., we're not flamers) ..... and quite wise, this is one of those things i'll regret saying im sure...

I know of at least one acro paraglider pilot who seems to have an exceptional understanding of how a BASE canopy flies. I would say, yes, their skills probably translate very well. The flight characteristics are, of course, different. But I think any canopy pilot (paraglider or skydiver) worth his salt isn't flying the canopy based on a pre-set sequence of actions, but is actually feeling the canopy through the harness and through his finger tips.

Michael

For an educational pursuit of the wind conditions at a building, try releasing helium balloons beforehand if possible. Why get wind info from just near the top section of the building?

i do agree that canopy "pilots" be it swoopers, BASE jumpers or paragliders have an exceptional feel for the parachute - instinct in the situation is something else altogether though.

I agree with Michael's response. Having witnessed first hand more than one BASE jump made by paraglider pilots here in Canada this year and in Switzerland last summer it seems to me they are very adaptable to BASE canopies. The one PG pilot who really blew my mind can fly a BASE canopy like I have never seen. On a recent ski-BASE adventure I had with said PG dude he was doing things with that canopy that I didn't know possible! I was very impressed with his canopy skills. He was one with the wing young Jedi.
Now, granted he is in a caliber all his own as probably one of the most experienced PG around anywhere but he sure has it together.
As far as them (the average PG pilot, ther are always exceptions) being on equal footing.....I don't think so personally. Skydiving will teach things that PG won't. Things that are neccesary to surviving and knowing what's happening during deployment etc.
Now, the largest majority of the PG guys getting into BASE that I have met have done some skydiving usually after making their first BASE jumps potato style. They have done their skydiving with the goal of developing skills for BASE. This seems like a very intelligent course of action to me.
In a perfect world..........300-700 skydives including a bunch of CRW, a bunch of hours under Paragliders and their related micrometeorolgy courses would be a benefit to all BASE heads. In fact I believe that experience flying all sorts of different things from Sail-planes to cessnas will all contribute. Nothing will sway me from the belief that skydiving is a very important precursor to BASE. It is and will always be!
For those choosing another way....it will require some serious will power to develop needed skills before advanced object jumps.
Take two BASE jumpers,one with say 700 skydives where 200 or so were CRW, another one has 1000 hours flying PG's, they both have 20 potato jumps.
I truly believe that the skydiver is far more prepared to deal with the deployment and the few seconds after which as we all know is the most (usually)dangerous part of the jjump.
Paragliding is a good skill to have as a BASE jumper but a whack of skydiving is invaluable!
Now feel free to file what I said wherever you want!

Hey all,

I heard that someone claiming to be a Calgary BASE jumper gave an interview on CBC last night. I know this message will go out to a lot of people who have no idea what I'm talking about, but if anyone saw the interview, please PM me. I'm curious who that was.

Michael

And if there is a transcript, or summary, I'd like it PMed or posted here, whatever is more appropriate.

It's on the CBC news webpage under local news..Calgary Now, at about the 11 min mark.

http://www.cbc.ca/...ary/audio/index.html

Well done Will!

http://www.redbullusa.com/...880355557-1580498126

Some irony here?

Just watched the CBC interview with Will Gadd. For a person who only dabbled in BASE I am quite pleased with what he had to say! I don't think anything he said at all that could be taken as negative.

Good work Will! Have to admit I was worried when I heard someone had spoken to the media about this incident. The active locals have been shooting down media requests by saying we would be happy to talk in a few weeks once the sensational accident was on the back burner.

Edit: I will edit to say that, as a born and raised Abertan I have know the name Will Gadd for quite some time. I have found his accomplishments in ice climbing, mixed climbing and paragliding to be quite inspiring!

587 & SabreDave,
By now you should know the rules of this forum- it's strictly taboo to say anything positive about Red Bull or their athletes. Please edit your posts accordingly.
Happy Hucking-
Othar

Nice one. So friggin simple yet I didn't think of it! That just makes so much sense I don't know what else to say. Shall keep that one in mind....

And on the newswire this morning. Man, they -do- take their time, don't they?

http://www.macleans.ca/...050418_103870_103870

ltdiver