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YeeeeHaaaww!!!

http://paraglidingforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=1588

More discussion of Miles course can be found in this thread.

Clicky

Post from Paragliding forum reproduced below:

I THINK THIS IS BAD NEWS.

Just my humble opinion.

Tom, you should post the details of your free first BASE jump course on that PG forum.

Nah, Tom will probably waste your time with all the boring bits (ethics, site evaluation, risk analysis/management etc.), why bother when you can just pay $100 and get hucked off a perfectly good bridge. Probably get a complimentary can of Red Bull too.

Just hope Miels aint arround as im visiting this summer im not paying him anything to jump off a perfectly good brigede...

I hope the PGpilots understand that jumping off any objects as a BASEjump aint somthing you just do,in the same way i dont just go huck a pg chute on my back and fly..
Different sporst different skills even as you still can compare many of the skills you cant allow people to think that it demands no skills..

As Dexter said BAD idea

was it not a paraglider pilot that invented the McConkey?

Paraglider pilots have been jumping off bridges long before they got offered a course to do it.

I posted something on BLiNC and DZ about asking about PG pilots learning to BASE before skydiving - maybe someone could dig it up - some interesting thoughts (from what I remember)

Wow. It got bigger.


You been using Miracle Grow Tom?


Sweet.

problem aint that PG pilots are offered this,problem is that EVRY one is offered this as it it requres no skills..
I do agree that PG pilots knows how to fly a pg,do they know how to sink a 7cell canopy? do they know how to be stabel in freefall?

i dunno i never tryed PG but thouse are some of the things that i wonder..

Naw, that will be 4 bucks. Can't have charity you know.

Othar linked it in the PG forum.

Since when do you need to be good at free fall to do a pca

Oh, come on you guys. Would you all be BASE jumping in the first place if you weren't at least a little bit open minded? Let's not start slamming the guy until we see what and how he's teaching.

Yes, I came from the dark side of paragliding, Miles and some of the other evil RB dudes taught me how. Did they teach me how to pack, site evaluation, risk analysis/management site maintnance/ preservation, how to safely continue the experience, and how to work within the BASE community to ensure I don't piss people off? Yes to all. Have I had a successfull BASE career in terms of safety, not pissing people off and being a good ambasador to the sport. I think yes, but I guess I should let you all judge.

Am I the only paraglider pilot that has learned to BASE jump in this way? Definately not. Are the others that have learned this way continuing their BASE careers in a reponsible maner? 100%

Regarding the skills a PG pilot has and how it relates to base the discussion is here, http://www.blincmagazine.com/...owthread.php?t=22444
Of course my personal take on it is the skills of a PG pilot are more than adaquite for learning to jump off of a bridge like the one mentioned. Are those skills adequeate for all BASE jumps? Certainly not. Is part of the continuing education for BASE jumping getting the necessary long/ terminal freefall skills by learning how to jump out of an aircraft? Yes. Have I done that? Yes. Have the other PG to BASE cross overs done that? Yes.

you dont need to be good to freefall,almost all people in this world only fall one way DOWN..

However jumpoing off an object whith a whish of getting away whith it alive and uninjuryed you might want to fall stabel.

I know that Miles will let people jump off an object thats "easy" forgiven and even have water below. but you should be stupied to not realice that stuff can go wrong even at such object.
The chance of people getting hurt will raise as you let people jump off stuff like it were a rolercoasterride..

Besides if you read the artickle theres posibility of jumping off the S handheld later on...

This bit says two things to me:

1) This is a "first" of many jumps. Not an "only" jump, in which case the wording would have been something like "this type of jump requires no skill..."

2) No previous experience is required.

Perhaps I'm misreading this, but when you run an advertisement (which is essentially what this is), the burden is on you to say the things you mean.

Also, when you post things into a public forum, you can't exactly expect that people won't respond and comment. That is, after all, the nature of a forum.

OJ,

BASE jumpers love to bitch and moan, so is it really a surprise to hear everyone complaining? Too many people are ready to jump down your throat lately.

On the positive side, at least you're catering to people who already have some, if not more, knowledge about parachutes than we do.

Even I am guilty of taking several jumpers with no skydives on their first BASE jump (they didn't have a comfy little river below). I'd bet there are quite a few people on this forum that have taken whuffos for a quick first BASE jump as well.

Ironically, a local PG pilot offered to teach me a few things last summer. He took me under his "wing" and I made a bunch of flights here in WV. I really appreciated that he offered to show me his sport and I had a ton of fun.

So, if you guys want to throw some experienced paragliders off the bridge, then I say GO FOR IT. Have fun.

 

What, so now you are trying to steal Ray's business?

I expect they're standing on the rail.

 Shit,
I gotta go to the store and buy you all some more milk.
How many more sippy cups do I need?

 

yeah its all fun untill it goes back to one self right...

Jason i cant belive that YOU working to legaliced BASE many places dont give a sh#t about this...

Do you really think that moving the fatality list will equal letting people whithg no experience to jump off objects?At least we wont have a list to place all the deads on then...

Faber-
Did you have any BASE jumping experience before you jumped off your first object?

hmm... something about the pot calling the kettle black comes to mind...

Faber,

The Potato bridge is an easy jump, as you'll see if you get the chance to jump it someday.

Have you ever flown a wing? PG pilots know far more than we do about canopy flight.

If you wanna talk about the fatality list, then do so in the proper thread.

guess you mean experience flying a canopy
yes i did have 500+ skydives

If not.. No i hadnt tryed a BASE jump before i did it the first time,however i had tryed to fly a 7 cell canopy...

I am aware thar PG pilots know alot more about flying wings than i.But they aint going to huck them off whith the wing theyre used to fly.
I see a difference in a wing that cant climb and a wing designed to climb.
You did try out the difference just between a 7 and 9 cell canopy didnt you?
I do belive that PG pilots have high skills as you speak about flying a wing however as they suddenly will find themself under a wing that only can desend,dont have the same ways to be flown then i think its a bad idea..
You dont let hanggliders fly fight plans as the wings looks similar you let them do it if they have the experience in a fight plane so they know how to control the wing as it get critical...

As Tom already also said,why would you think a PG pilot would stop BASE jumping after this event? dont you think they want more? if so they need to know how to fly BASEcanopyes so they dont get hurt or die...

Jason i placed the note about the list as i think your going in 2 different ways.I do admire your work but think that if you want BASE to be legal you also need to show people that you care about people that huck them self off theese objects,one way is to educate people so they dont hurt them self,or make sure they have the canopy skills required not only at thouse legal places..(getting hurt on a illegal place still gives more attention than on a legal place..)

I don't have a problem with PG pilots being tossed off the Potato Bridge because these guys probably have more canopy experience than most jumpers. How do I know this? I've flown some wings in my time and I'm friends with several PG pilots. However, if Miles were catering to whuffos with zero time under a parachute, then I would have issues with it.

I'm trying to open access at cliffs in National Parks. So, comparing this to an already legal, state-owned bridge is not really a good comparison.

neither do i,however i dont want to hear about theese people getting hurt in their further jurney of BASE..

Perhaps some skydives under students canopyes will be enough to theese guys i dont know,but i think its wrong not having ANY experience in a wing your having a realative short ride under off the bridge.

Do you know how to rescue thouse to fail?
youll need to pick on the good once aswell,that way you´ll get a equal education and therefore bigger posibility to get away unharmed...

If a national park sees that you huck inexperienced people off an already site do you then think they want to open up their site to get the posibility of the same at their place? i guess not and i do understand them..
Its the same way i wont guide any to a jump i belive is beyond their skills,i dont my object burned becourse of that.
Perhaps you also should think forward that
more jumpers= more injuryes.
More new jumpers = more injuryes
More inexperienced jumpers= more injuryes
more injuryes = bad reputation meaning that open sites can be locked,and new onces might never will open...

Im not picking on 1 pg pilot that is a natural,im looking all over,not all are natural to this.As Miles says no experience is nesseary he welcome evryone which could turn into a dangerzone and hurt BASE..

Should we expect theese courses at B day this year aswell as its already legal aswell so it cant be harmed??
I think you can compare both TF and some cliffs...

its all about beeing ahead of the problems,thats the only way to prevent them..

Jason,

It's a separate issue, but:

Do you think BASE training ought to be provided as a "this is what you'll need to know later on," or a "this is what you need for this one jump/weekend/object"?

I'm not trying to be clever, or start a fight, here. I'm really curious what you think. We had this discussion a (longish) while back on BLiNC, regarding some folks who had never learned to pack slider down (because they were only planning on jumping in Norway).

I threw my 2 cents into this thread, but I didn't want to get this involved.....therefore, I'll try to be brief.

In most cases, BASE training should be comprehensive and tailored to "this is what you'll need to know later on". However, there are exceptions. Even Bridge Day is a good exception because most new jumpers there never take a first jump course. All they may get is a 1 hour "how not to die" course. They get no formal training, especially in the areas of site evaluation, ethics, etc. So is Bridge Day bad?

Bottom line is that it depends on the situation, but generally a full blown course is best. I don't think paragliders are the type to rush off to jump their local 130' bridge with an ebay rig.

While on the subject of FJC's, I'm working on implementing a full blown FJC this year at Bridge Day. Interested instructors please email me for details. The course would entail several days of training before BD and then guidance during your student's first jump.

Cya.

Yo Tree,
Sorry I'm not gonna be able to make it out for your dates. I appreciate the offer though.
I'll tell you what, I will send out a care pakage for you. In care of " World famous" Miles D. Hopefully you will recieve it in time.
Did you need extra diapers or tampons?
Get back to me asap.

Jason,

I would reply to you via a PM, but you have PM's blocked!

I have no reason to piss you off because I don't even know you and I think we both want the same thing, however I have offered my assistance in regards to legalizing BASE in the NPS and I haven't even received a response! Do you want to have this happen or do you need to be the ONE?

As for Miles, I only know you from videos and online conversations. More power to you, but what is your and Jason's real aspirations? I'm all for everyone getting rich (Tom, if your not already rich you deserve to be), but this is a community where honesty is cherished and deceit is scorned. So if your goal is to be financially sucessful doing FJC's just say so. This is a very, very small community and you surely know this.

I hope to jump with all of you, but all of the cover up and misleading coments serve no one.

I really don't think Jason has some underylying financial obective here. He pretty much just wants to be able to make jumps in NPS lands in the US. He's given a huge amount of his personal time and money to that end.

Miles aspirations? As far as I can tell that's pretty much "have fun!" I disagree with some of the things he does, but I don't think he's got some giant, hidden agenda. He's just out there doing things that look like fun for him, and hopin to support his family at it somehow.

Go easy. Both of those guys give tons back to all of us without being asked (Jason negotiates with NPS bureaucrats way more than he wants, and Miles has thrown in 30 or 40 hours of his own time to trail improvement down here).

That is what I want to believe and I will donate ALL of my time to pursue those ends.

My email address is listed in my profile. I just prefer to answer and send email from one program.


Did you email ME? I respond to every email that requires a response. We are still getting our organization in order, so that may be the reason we've not contacted volunteers yet. Once our website is fully functional, your help WILL be needed. Please be patient, as we're still setting things up on our end. Keep in mind there are many people involved in the ABP and we're trying to see where everyone fits in right now. I'm just a board member, and there are a few jumpers who are higher up than I. I'm just one of the few who, for some odd reason, continues to post to this forum. Go figure.


Huh? I think Tom summed this up pretty well above, so I'll let this rest. Anyway, thanks for offering to help. Please resend your original email if you can.

about the new people jumping yes B-day is bad.. we already covered it once and its about the same here,no reasson to ague about that we dont agree in this thats life.. which dosnt mean that i wont join B-day or jump whith any of you guys,i just that the way your starting new "waves"/getting new jumpers in, in our sport is the bad way to go...

Jason,

I probably owe you a public apology. After re-reading my previous post it seemed to me to be very inflammatory. I'm not sure why I expressed my views in that manner. So I'm sorry to you and Miles for presenting my thoughts as I did.

I think what I was really trying to say is if you make an income from jumping, jumping in NP, or organizing events like BD, we (other jumpers) shouldn't discredit you for that effort. After all in reality anything that becomes available from your effort constitutes MORE legal access.

I think part of my anger was based on the overall lack of clarity of the direction you and others are trying to swing things; i.e. the Fatality List thread and no response to my offer of assistance (although you have since responded) made me question your motives.

BTW, my wife thinks I distrust everything. Last night I told here I thought "The Apprentice" was probably fixed...

Well after all the discussion of paraglider pilots learning to base jump it seemed like we should do some further testing to make sure it was legit.

checkout http://www.ojinternational.com/video.htm click "Dog Food BASE"

Test subject 1 is a bag of "Atta Boy" dog food. Test subject 2 is paraglider pilot. Both are in the same First Jump Course(FJC).

Both subjects stuck the shit out of it. Some might argue that the PG pilot did better than the sack of dog food because he had a nice soft landing in the LZ, whereas the dogfood landed in the water. You decide.

My personal opinion is that if a bag of dog food can make a successful jump off the bridge I'm confident a PG pilot will do just fine.

Happy Hucking,
Othar

Nah. The correct quote is:

"Anyone who can step off a chair and throw a handkerchief out of their pocket can make a BASE jump. -- Glenn Singlemann"

Gotta admit you guys are growing on me. But I have to say.... You're in IDAHO. You mean to tell me you guys couldn't find a 100 lb sack of potatoes? WTF?

Loved the Atta Boy Dog food, though... heh heh.

So, there it is: any sack of "Atta Boy" dogfood can make a basejump.


Gardner

the question would rather be can they do more than that?
doing it once could be luck...

 

I'm surprised it opened that fast and fully/properly. I would've thought that at such a low wing loading it would've had problems inflating.

 

I think what he did was pretty irresponsible. I don't think I saw a pilot chute on the end of that bridle, seriously putting the bag of dog food in a lot of risk in the event that he may have accidentally released prematurely.

That bag of dog food would have been in a world of hurt if the container didn't open from the assist.

 

kibbles... yea there would have been kibbles and BITs if the chute didnt open

But Don's dogs may have been loving it!

oh yes...