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Hi

First, don't know if this really fits in in this forum but.....

Me and a friend have come up with an excellent idea. We have plenty of snow, time and little to do.

Here's the deal. We were thinking 'bout starting his paraglider behind a snowmobile (yes, we have PLENTY of rope) with me as a passenger. Up on decent alt I'll drop off, pull and land my Troll with grace.

This is all fine, I guess I just face the usual risks, imminent death. But what about my friend who's still stuck up there. What are the possible bad outcomes in such a enterprise?

Suddenly deflation with no chance of recovery? Deathspirals? Or what?

I've seen jumps been made from paragliders before both live and on video and it all just seemed sweet. But lets face it, I know sh**t 'bout paragliders and that counts for my friend as well, I guess.

So is there anybody out there with experience? Share, please.

// Percy

It can and has been done by me and several others here but... From what it sounds like you AND your friend have no paragliding experience. If you're jumping off and leaving him alone on a tandem wing, he will be underloading the tandem. This would be a bad place to be with no paragliding experience.

Also towing a paraglider behind a snow mobile (or anything for that matter) MUST be done using a winch system. You can't just tie a rope to the back and tow up. Towing anything with a static line (one that doesn't pay out slack) is very dangerous and several people have been hurt and killed doing this. (those with towing experience please chime in here!)

I would suggest going out and finding some local paraglider pilots and talking to them about all this first. I'd bet that you could probably convince a local tandem instructor to take you up for free so you could jump off.

Edit to add: See what Treejumps said above. That is why you can't tow using a static line.

Towing is the most dangerous thing you can do with anything that flies. If you missed it up-board the term to understand is "lockout." This can happen even if you really know what you are doing.

Also, just as in any form of aviation, going up in something you aren't "checked out" in is very dangerous.

Find an experienced paragliding tandem pilot and pay the freight. Although, I've always wondered if being that lightly wind loaded (after you leave) under a tandem paraglider is a good thing. I suppose it's a matter of picking the right conditions. The paradox being good conditions for going up, would be bad conditions for coming down.

Disclaimer - I have twenty flights on the bunny hill!

NickD
BASE 194

The safety of the person operating the snowmobile must also be taken ino consideration. Your buddy driving it has a degree of risk if something goes bad. I saw a helicopter worth well over six figures end up at the bottom of a lake while towing a small boat.

Being that lightly loaded is a bad thing. When I do these jumps we always do it in calm conditions at the end of the day. Even in the calm conditions it is still dangerous. He's (the tandem pilot) just accepted that risk.

It doesn't hurt that he has over a thousand flights as well.

There's more too...trim of the glider before and after jump, using different risers for the jump, etc.

Hmmm

You leave me with more thoughts, not what I wanted. Would have preferred a "Yeah man, go do it". But I guess you guys is right, there is more to it than what's obvious.

A q though, before I go find my own personal (qualified) "low altidude skydiver-driver".

This "lockout" thing. What's the mechanics behind it? Can it be avoided if u abort (i.e. release, asume non load bearing release) quickly when things turn ugly?

Thx

// percy

I've read about "lockout" but never really understood it exactly. I've seen the results of it though, not pretty. When people are towed they do have a cutaway system like our three rings release (almost exactly like it actually). I've heard several stories about people having hard cutaways when getting "locked out" just like we have on high performance skydiving canopies.

Percy,

The really good thing is you asked . . . way to be.

As for understanding lockout think about being a kid with your first kite.

You're flying fine and all's right with the world, and then for no apparent reason the kite does a 180 and dives into the ground. That's lockout.

It's whenever the righting force, the kites tail, or with the paraglider, the steering line inputs, cannot overcome the force of the tow.

I also saw the video of the speed boat and the helicopter. That was lockout too, just sort of in reverse . . .

NickD
BASE 194

Ok. So... you are familiar with "downplaning" with a canopy?

(Two people hook themselves together and fly their canopies in opposite directions, each canopy opposes the forces created by the other with the result that they both fly towards the ground... can also happen with a reserve deployment and a still inflated main canopy on either a parachute or a paraglider)

Lockout is essentially the same thing... the paraglider flies out of line with the direction of the tow, such that it's flight direction begins to conflict with the tow direction. The result is a SUPER pressurized canopy that is VERY difficult to control and is traveling perpendicular to the tow direction either sideway's or downward.

With a winch system this isn't AS HUGE of a problem (but is still quite a big problem) as the winch with simply play out more line if the paraglider resists more... meaning that any problems happen more slowly. Also, tow systems usually incorporate a "weak link" which will break when forces get too high.

So, the analogy of a kite diving into the ground, is probably pretty accurate for what lockout on a static line close to the ground could be like.

To paraphrase Mr. Utah... Have fun, don't die.

At my dropzone one of my buddies, Chris, died when we were towing a canopy behind a truck. The canopy turned and dove into the ground unexpectedly. The canopy was large and docile, still, it happened very fast and he's not with us anymore.

It can happen. Be careful.

If the person with the paraglider isn't tandem rated i wouldn't personally do it, also he would have done winch launcing before. Also the person controlling what ever you goin to use as a winch should be experianced in using it for winching.
Lots of people get over the problem of the tandem wing becomming lightly loades when the person exits by having 3 people on the tandem wing.
For me if theres any questions left unanswered id put it off untill youve got no more questions and a good idea of all the possible dangers.

Thx for all the input guys.

I've just got hold of a very qualified Tandem paraglider. He'll help me and we'll se what comes out in the end.

// Percy