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Interesting, I did exactly the same thing on my SJC (second jump course ). I did a side-floater facing to the north of the canyon on my 11th jump. I had a 90 left, so ended up facing towards the bridge. I then used rear-risers for a full 180 and ended up losing too much altitude to turn it around for a downwind landing. I then decided to go for the water instead.

The water can get quite chilly in November .

Same lesson I suppose; only use risers to turn as far as to point away from the object.

Thanks for sharing.

Sorry to cut our conversation short man. Maybe in Moab. What was the wind like when you attempted this? It would speed you up considerably depending on which direction (as I am sure you know). Keep in mind though, that with most B's, and E's you are going to be jumping with little to no wind at all (especially wind blowing you back into the object). Anyway, just a thought, talk to you soon.
Have fun
Adam

Along the lines of Adam's thoughts:

If you are facing a solid object, and the wind is pushing you into it (which ought to be very rare, since with a headwind, you shouldn't be exiting a solid object), it's often better to turn on toggles.

The reason for this is the total distance the canopy travels toward the object.

Under "ordinary" (i.e. not a headwind blowing you back into a solid object) circumstances, distance travelled toward the object is minimized by using the risers. While this may seem to result in a "slow" turn, the turn while "slower" in time used (it takes more seconds to turn), is actually "faster" in horizontal distance consumed (you move less feet toward the wall).

However, if you add in a headwind, you find that the wind speed gets added to the canopies speed, over time. So, in that situation, you want to minimize the _time_ you spend turning (because you are getting blown toward the object during the turn). So, in the headwind case, you need to minimize turn time in order to minimize horizontal distance used. Which means, often, that you ought to be turning on the toggles.

This is, in my opinion, perhaps the only situation in which an imminent object strike is best addressed with the toggles, rather than the risers. These situations most often occur on slider up cliff jumps (where people are willing to exit into a headwind because they can create more object separation during the freefall).

Note that my use of the term "imminent object strike" pretty much means that you find your body tensing up to accept the impact. If you're 100 feet away from the object (or in any other situation where impact is not imminent) you're usually better off turning on the toggles, because a toggle turn uses less vertical altitude (and in almost every situation not involving imminent impact, vertical altitude is your most precious commodity).

I find it often helps to evaluate a jump by deciding what the "most precious" thing I have at opening is: often it's separation from the wall, but sometimes it can also be time before striking the wall (in a headwind scenario) or altitude before striking the ground. In fact, at different times during the same jump, it will be different things. Choose your turn strategy to conserve your "most precious" commodity, and expend a different one, instead.

You also should take into account that had you jumped straight out (like you would off an E) that the distance between you and the wall will be at least 10 feet more than it was from your floater exit where you just dropped straight off. The other thing you're missing is the line twist that will be there, even if it's just a 1/2 twist, it can mess with your hand's reactions a little bit.

To really practice having a 180 - I'd have your buddy turn your packjob over some night when you're not around or after you've had too much to drink. That way, you'll not be expecting it, you'll jump just like you would from an E, and you'll have at least 1/2 of a twist in your risers. This is sort of like when my shooting coach would load a dud in my clip, to see if I was bucking.

 

My personal experience () is that the deeper your dbs, the more altitude you'll burn trying to riser turn (the rate at which you can turn by slowing down one side of your canopy depends on how much forward speed the other side has, right?). Anyway, with dbs on the non-vented canopy I was trying out (from a low object in the dark, instead of from several grand in the daylight, which would have made too much sense apparently) set close to a stand-still, popping toggles would have been the right option in almost every case I can think of -- collision would have to be really imminent before I'd spend most of the rest of my altitude with risers in my hands staring down the object.

You folks with real experience please correct me if I wrong, Thanks!

I have. Several times. It's kind of good practice for dealing with real emergencies. I figure if I pack myself a line over, and spin into the water here, I'll be much better prepared to deal with it should it happen somewhere else. And if I do it a couple dozen times (I haven't quite gotten that far yet), it might increase my odds of survival significantly.

when you packed the line over... how did you react? what would you do if you had a real one over water? over hard land? If you did this SU, did you have a hook knife? Do you regularly carry a hook knife?



split this off if necessary

You can watch the video of what I'd do over hard land on sm.com. I always carry a hook knife, but the practice jumps I did were slider down.

I actually found that it's surprisingly hard to pack yourself a line over. They tend to clear during deployment.


On every rig.



I'd probably try to equalize the spin with opposite toggle pressure, and just splash down. If I couldn't equalize it, I'd try more extreme measures (like cutting or releasing the line).


My basic line over response is:

1) Pump toggles twice to try to clear line over. If that doesn't work, proceed to (5).
2) Try to equalize spin with opposite toggle. If that doesn't work, proceed to (5)
3) Evaluate landability of line over. If not landable, proceed to (5).
4) Land with lined over or cleared canopy.
5) Use WLO toggle (if on this rig) or hook knife to release line over.
6) Land on rear risers.

Ahhhh toggles v risers.

I totally agree - toggles give faster response.

BUT

That is when you grab hold of them properly / first attempt and use them properly. i.e. statistically you have a much greater chance of missing toggles than risers as they are a smaller target. Add in the newbie jumper / scared shitless factor that undermines your mental faculties a bit and then it makes them even harder to grab when you need them most . . . . .

You should factor this in your decision making process. Toggles v risers is not a black and white decision.

e.g. The miss has happened to the best of us. RIP

If I ever go jumping with you, I'm going to bring a finger printing kit with me and make that a part of my prejump equipment checklist.