Basejumper.com - archive

Is atmonauti flying used in terminal wall jumps by anyone?

Is it better than flat tracking in terms of horizontal movement?

Can you define "atmonauti"? I'm not sure I'm familiar with the term.

Atmonauti.com

DUDE!!!!!!
That is exactly what I'm talking about. At this point there are probably 10 people world wide with the overlapping skydiving/Base skills for that. And just for the recod, Miles Daisher is one of them.
-j

Cool, dude

I'm not base jumping yet, but preparing - in particular, working on my tracking skills. If atmonauti flight covers more ground horizontally than regular tracking, I'll learn that, too! (Besides, autmonauti looks and feels more powerful and sexy than sausage-like tracking )

Any data on glide ratio in autmonauti vs. tracking?

Found the answer (search, duh!)

"Please explain how this is more efficient than tracking and what you mean by efficient (slower vertical, faster horizontal?)"

- "What I call efficiency is the horizontal speed/ vertical speed ratio. I don't know the exact term in English. According to Marco, this ratio can be better in atmonauti than in normal track because of the body position. It can seem strange because your body has more angle in atmonauti flight than in track, but it is more aerodynamic and thus creates a kind a lift effect (like a canopy)."

Thread

This is the way I see it.
Atmonouti (I never speel it or say it right) basically takes tracking jumps to a whole new level. Not in the sense of tracking contests in which one person tracks further than everybody, another guy tracks furhter than almost everrybody, and someone else comes in third.

Atmonouti jumps presuppose the intention to do do relative work. So peole can track together in amazing linked formations while moving horizontally accross the sky. I'm sure a good tracker in a max track would blow by the "atmonouti" jumpers, but he/she would be alone.

It's exactly this direction where I see base jumping going. It's the natural progression. Aerials are done(personal opinion). Solos are boring. And who can track the furthest is a question for sunset jumps. Atmonouti jumps from terminal walls will provide an environment for relative work while moving a safe distance from the wall.

The question is...who's in?

I'd really like to see some wingsuit formations. Imagine a linked wingsuit diamond flying down a gorge. Now that would be cool.

That too. Of course.

*cough*Bullshit*cough*

I think that could only be determined if you set up a good atmonauti flyer (Marco himself would be best, I guess) against a good tracker. The 45° degree angle is just the theory for that sort of flying; in practice, atmonauti formations are, well, a sort of relative work and will move from shallower to steeper angles to accomodate for whatever's going on on the jump. Still, freefall times and vertical speeds tend to be longer/slower than what you'd expect from a position that much different than a track.

On the other hand, placing that into a BASE enviroment would definitely require a big enough playfield...and I figure it would be wise to get some healthy distance from the wall before you start experimenting with angle changes.

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Would atmonauti benefit from tracking wear (pants, jacket, etc)?

Although my first urge is to agree with you,
I would agree with Marco. After seeing appx 5000 Big Wall (600mVert) BASE jumps. The norm for tracking is quite low in the segment that I saw jump from general skydiving although we had some wilders with low skydiving exp with what I would term extreme tracking abilities.
Alot of this is due to tracking without a closeby ref such as a wall or another jumper. On a typical 4way fun RW jump, everyone tracks away from the others at breakoff for 5 secs,
It´s not a very observational viewpoint from which to improve ones track.
Relative tracking dives are the best way to learn tracking. These guys seem to know how to tweak their tracks with finess. The sport trend is definitely going the direction of horizontal separation.
BASEr`s out track the gen.skydiving pop IMHO.
take care,
space

I'm in! In the future


This word sucks! It probably sounds more natural in Italian than in English. I propose to call it simply "protrack". Especially that Larsen&Brusgaad will soon discontinue it

I think they should be redesigned to be efficient in protrack ("atmonaughty"). The air intakes should be designed differently, since the relative wind is now along the body, not from below.

Such jacket/pants will work more like a ram-air wing, not like a round parachute.

I'm in for the first 3 way star Atmo from the Big Walls !!

Not for me!
I'd guess there are even some people out there with a few hundred BASE jumps that still find solos exciting. Maybe not every solo but...

When every solo becomes boring, it's time to go home.

I don't think that Jimmy was trying to say "every" solo, though.

And, dude, for you, I doubt it'll get boring for a while. What you are doing makes "normal" BASE seem about as exciting as skydiving--not dull, but suddenly just not quite at the top level.

I know he wasn't, but I just had to say that they're still exciting as hell for me. Whenever I get to do them that is. Damn winter!

Tom can you do something about the weather out there? I looked on-line a few days ago and it said, "Feels like 18 (degrees F)." Bbbbrrrrrr!!!!!!!!

Sorry for being off subject.

yup but i can tell that jumping solo off a sertain A can get "borring" and i actualy has found it more fun to make "tandems"whith people in the phone(on speaker)asd i jump. example last jump were a solo whith 621 and 813 in the phone.
I made a nice count and had to laugh so much on the way down that i went headlow. Now that usaly aint that fun but comt it to a phone while falling,deploying and flying the canopy is way fun.

Thanks Mac, i really apritiate that you nearly killed me,it were funny as F#ck.

solos can be borring but they sure also can be as intence as you think it might ever will be..

when you do a running exit on an ice ridden metal platform with the shout "you take it up the arse" then I am glad you went head down! - that will teach ya!! - so cocky on the count - not so cocky in freefall! hehehehehe

Why don't we invite Marco! As far as I know he is (..or maybe was) BASE jumping! I've seen some videos of him doing so...

Best way to find out if it works better than a track, since he's the founder/master of Atmonauti!

J.

I've got beach from property in Arizona for sale too......

I will second J.P.'s sentiments on that topic.

> *cough*Bullshit*cough*

> I will second J.P.'s sentiments on that topic

When, even if I am a countryfellow of Marco's, I'd rather agree with you two.
To claim that something is more effective than something else, to say that a type of track is more effective ("...you cover more ground...") than another type of track, it is simply a legend/feeling/superstition if not suppoorted by real evidence, by real facts (=a very nice GPS track).
I do agree that in the atmonauti track, being the body more vertical, you could get a real lift, but I am afraid you are really going also very "down", so what counts here is the overall trajectory that your body does with respect to vertical (or to horizontal, if you prefer).
Few years ago I did a couple of skydives (tracking) with a my GPS attached to my helmet and I downloaded track onto my computer: very "noisy" data, what could have been considered reliable was the average track, sort of 0.28 (just trying to remember/guess here...). Yes, I know I am NOT the best tracker in the world.
About one year ago I did a skydive still with GPS onto my helmet, it was a tracking skydive with my smoke pantz on (I cannot say they did inflate so well, at the time...): this time as average efficiency I got something like 0.34 (or so).
To make short a long story: to really be able to demonstrate that an atmonauti track is way better than a standard track, we should get two nice GPS tracks downloaded onto a computer, where first track got from a standard tracking skydive and the second got from an atmonauti tracking, compulsorily the two skydives done by the same folk, possibly by someone very proficient in doing atmonauti track.
Then we could decide which is better than the other. Possibily with more than one couple of tracking jumps (standard track/atmonauti track), because GPS data (from our skydives) tend to be quite "noisy".
Just my 0.02€.

what is this "standard track" that you all are referring to? what is actually the difference between a naughty track TM, and another good steep track? if angle of attack is the only variation, i don't really see what the fuzz is all about. any poasistion has its optimal angle of attack, which usually is much steeper than most skydivers realize. if there are other differences, please enlighten me... i'd really like to learn about this. and for the record; i'm in!

ps. gps plots from bigwall tracks have shown terminal glide ratios around 1:1. other jumps done without gps somtimes has proven better than this too.

Wind introduces unknown variable to GPS data.

To eliminate wind, two skydivers (each with GPS) should jump simultaneously: one would track, another would make a human ball (tuck hands and legs in, as close to spherical shape as possible) and fall "straight" down (relative to wind). By subtracting the horizontal speed of the reference jumper, we get the accurate measure of the tracking speed and true glide ratio. Same experiment with atmonaughty

I think this guy did glide ratio 10:1 or something from a big wall, without pants or wings.

I propose to call it

"f*** you I won't do what you tell me"-naughty (TM)

It's body position. In a 'standard track' you're cupping air with your body and trying to fly flat. Atmonauti is a more head low position with your arms and legs open in a sort of headdown straddle.

As far as comparing goes, we were working on 'trackmonauti' (patent pending) formations at the Gran Canaria Boogie with half of the people flying a pretty flat tracking formation and half of them flying atmonauti over the rabbit. That worked ok, but if you wanted to compare a hard survival track (like from a terminal wall) with an atmonauti track, I'd put my money on the former, even if you did get Marco to fly it (but even though he may be a master of the technique, it's Gi who really kicks ass...)

And while I have really no idea what effect tracking wear would have on an atmonauti track, I do have a pair of smoking pants that I can try taking out of the plane to see what happens.

Btw; the whole atmo-tm-thing has been beaten to death repeatedly in the freefly forum. Call it what you will, I see no reason to bring this into this discussion as well.

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Actually from my observations, these days most skydivers track too steep. Something that comes from having all the excess energy when leaving a freefly dive. A good skydiver can track much flater and farther for best seperation.

well actually he did about 50 deg below the horizontal line at the best parts of the jump, which is okey for an old school technique... he does alot better now! take a look at these clips to see some examples:

http://www.stud.ntnu.no/~hansho

of course wind is a factor when jumping from a plane, but most big wall jumps (i hope) are done in "relatively" calm conditions, so any gps log would be informative of the glide ratio.



as i understand this it's very similar to the way big wall tracking has evolved; wider and steeper position, with head low trying to cut through the air instead of trying to float on it.

i guess atmonauti is as good a name as any, but its all about developing our way to fly

Fantastic tracking!

Liked the music from spiret.wmv. Is this album "Perfect Circle" by Big Bang?

i'm not sure about the name of the album, but the tune is "mountain song" (yes, big bang)

the guy in the other low flyby clip, does most of the filming in these ones. all done tracking (no ws).

is this similar to the atmonauti way of flying?

> is this similar to the atmonauti way of flying?
Not at all. Sorry, I do not know how to make URL's clicky, but I am sure you get to their website anyway:

http://www.atmonauti.com/

first, choose English language, then click on ATMONAUTI, then on ATMONAUTI?, then on TECHNIQUE, there it is explained very well the technique, the angles they claim they get and, moreover, there are pictures of body position, that is quite different from a "standard" track position (standard track position being (more or less): body stretched, legs a little bit apart, stretched arms along your body and a little bit apart from body itself, you know better than me how to get a MAX TRACK position).

http://www.atmonauti.com/

Thanks mate.
BTW, did you manage to buy a 10 AA battery holder yet?

hey Faber

what he said:

if you haven't found one, let me know and I'll buy one (they're like $2 here!) and either post it to you or drop it with one of your English buddies when I go to London in March

later
sam

Any data on the effectiveness of an 'atmonauti' vs a flat track at sub terminal speeds (approaching terminal)?
I'm wondering about the efficiency ( alt. lost vs distance covered) of an atmo jump at just below terminal speed vs that of the flat track...

No worryes 689

pméd you Sam

If you want to have an idea of the efficiency of this style of tracking, there's plenty of pictures on their websites, on which you can compare the body position with the path, marked by fumes.

I'm not impressed.

That seems to be freefly, rather than something really new...

 
Again.
The point is not whether a "traditional" track is more or less efficient than an atmonouti. Both forms will get get you far enough away from a big wall for a safe deployment. It's that the atmonouti is highly conducive to RW while maintaining consitent horizontal movement away from said cliff. That's the reason I think we should explore it's potential as BASE jumpers.

If you watch Atle tracking off six in my video, difficult because I added some wierd solarization effect that generally takes away from the impressivness of the jump itself, you will notice that he tracks for 23 seconds from 3,000 ft. and dumps right over the grass landing area. A truly impressive feat. BUT...I would call his body position a split between a skydiving max track and an atmonouti. At lodi, we call the style a "crab track." When I saw Atle do it, I thought "Wow, with a little practice with atmonouti we could potentially fly a line for two thirds of the jump, break off, track away from each other, and all dump over the lighthouse."

again, who's in? Cuz I'm goin back this summer.

again i'm in ! And as you said the best track i think is between atmo and a flat track, you track out someone who's doing atmonauti if you go between those angles, already done 100000 times.

Let's start to see who really want to be part of it !:-)

Good luck jimmy. Certainly an ambitous idea.
I'll video!