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What are some of the hurdles we need to overcome to host a legal BASE event in the US? How do we overcome these obstacles? How are events like the Royal Gorge able to be conducted??? What kind of permissions, insurance or permits are needed? Are there special considerations needed for objects like buildings or antennas?

Thanks

Jason
570

Certainly, at a minimum:

(1) Permission from the object owner.
(2) Permission from the landing area owner (if different)


Likely also,

(2) Liability Insurance to protect the object owner (and organizers).
(3) Permission from any local authorities.

I don't think that it would be that tough, really, if you had a friendly object owner and some cash to buy insurance to protect your friendly object owner.

Good question. I carry no liability insurance for Bridge Day and have not been required to do so......YET. I've been laughed out of more than one insurance office after I asked them about insurance for a BASE jumping event. If you get hurt at Bridge Day and you (or your relatives) sue me.....well, shame on you.

Here's another old story. After the previous Bridge Day organizers had difficulty finding Bridge Day insurance, the NPS didn't believe them. So the NPS spent one month trying to find someone to insure the event as well. They also failed. When the NPS fails to get insurance, you know it's gonna be hard.

I've pretty much given up on finding insurance, but if the need arises, I'll do more research. It's too bad that the few jumpers who know the right places/methods to get insurance can't/won't tell us anything ($$$).

Anyone have any good insurance leads?

I think the main obstacle in getting a new legal event would simply be putting the time and effort into the project. If you ask enough object owners, there will always be one or two who'll say yes. Nobody is gonna just let you have 100 of your best BASE buddies over to jump a building.....you have to show the building owner how he can benefit from the event.

PS. If anyone gets to the point of needing a good solid BASE event waiver, shoot me an email.....I can help.

I have been able to acquire a $1 million liability policy for my free first jump courses. It only costs me around $70/yr. I specifically asked if it would cover for-profit events, and it does not. Since I wasn't that interested, I didn't pursue it any further.

Many umbrella policies will cover you for problems at work. So if you created a corporation to run Bridge Day, you could acquire a personal umbrella policy for under $100/yr that would cover you, personally, as an employee (it wouldn't cover the Bridge Day corporation). That would at least protect you if something bad went down. And you could always have the BD corp declare bankruptcy if it was sued, and just charter a new corporation for the next year.

I'll dig around a bit more.

Out of curiosity, why would you still need a liability policy when you let your students write a letter explaining what they are getting themselves into?

Is the U.S. justice system really such that a family has a chance of winning a case against you, even with such a letter available?

My knowledge of the U.S. justice system is restricted to the horror stories about obese people sueing McDonalds, so correct me if I'm wrong.

Where I come from (the Netherlands), Darwinism still makes a strong case in court.

Cheers,

Jaap Suter

It's not so much the issue of winning vs. losing as it is the cost of defending oneself in court.

A lot of "winners" in the legal system have found themselves bankrupted by process.

rl

It's not the jumper that I'm worried about. However, grieving parents are notorious for pointing fingers at the BASE instructor, the fixed object itself, and even other jumpers on the load. They "try to prevent this from happening to other clueless jumpers". Grieving parents can be a BASE jumper's worst nightmare - they think we should all be saved from this dangerous sport and they would rather take away our jumping freedoms so they can justify their son/daughter's death.

But lawsuits from jumpers and their families are most often covered when the jumper signs a waiver, which in most cases will deter a lawsuit.

The real dilemma, in my opinion, is when a jumper hits a spectator in the LZ. THAT is my worst fear.

Maybe you have already checked but..........Lloyd's of London was always the go to agency for people with bizarre and extreme insurance needs!

http://www.insuranceconsultingcompany.com/lloyds.htm

Hope that is useful! Keep up the good work Jason!

They could still sue me. And I have attorney's fees, even if I won.

The letter is mostly for you, actually, rather than me.

not to give you another off-topic - but :

if you watch your buddy go in from up top :

do you dial 911, jump, stay ?
do you jump, dial 911, stay ?
dial 911, climb down, stay ?
climb down, dial 911, stay ?

in either case wouldn't stashing the gear while waiting for the 911 to come and claiming to be " just GC" be an advisable idea if you know that you might be taking it up the rear as it is ?

tnx

I would call 911, then climb down. If I thought I could provide aid, I _might_ jump after, if it was a long way around to the bottom. But if conditions were questionable, I'd worry about creating two victims, rather than one.

An exception is that one of my friends made me promise that if he went in, we'd all jump afterward.

I would jump down, as it is a faster way to give aid, call 911if needed, Stash my gear and wait for the authorities to show up and tell them that i was just there to ground crew. Local conditions may change that plan somewhat, but as the saying goes, if you can't take the heat stay out of the kitchen.

Does anyone know if Go Fast had insurance at their event in CO? It would seem like it would be required by the R.Gorge people don't ya think?
OK say the insurance part can be worked out, so how would you go about convincing the object owner to allow an event to take place? What benefits, other than monetary, can the object owner be enticed with? Or does it all come back to money?

Thanks
Jason
570

It's usually publicity, not money.

As i lucky never vitnessed a BASE fatality,so this is only as i have thourght of.

Ofcourse it depends no how things are and how i feel at that point. but im pretty sure i will do the jump aswell to get down to my buddy as fast as i can.

Why?,if a buddy goes in or gets hurt does that mean that i will aswell?
If it did i wouldnt jump it anyway...
Each time i climb an object i do it as i blive that i can make the jump unharmed,if not im not climbing or jumping it anyway...
So to me theres no reasson to do a climb down(unless i lost the spirit for the jump,as i said i never were in that pos.).

Ofcourse i wouldnt enjoy the jump but would see it as a fast way to get down.

just for an example, when I fucked myself up, 621 was the last jumper after me on the load, and as soon as he realised I was fucked he walked down, (the object was 210ft) - the reason for this was on such an object there was a chance he could bust himself up too if things went wrong, and having 2 people fucked up was alot alot worse than just one on this particular object........... thanks to the people that "carried my ass" out of the landing area and thanks to the people that had the tools to open up the landing area to get me out - it could have been so much worse!

i cant speak for 621,but did you ask him if it would have been different if it were only the 2 of you? leaving you alone on the ground...

NOTE:i would have jumped off direct above you,pull low as i knew i would land soft if i burned in low

the same people would still make it happen anyway

I do understand why 621 walked down from that object(still dunno were you landed). A jump from that object is into a "limited area/flying distance" which would basicly put him on top of you if somthing happened.

Did he jump first or last as Ivan broke him self up?(last i bet) which sure were a safe option as he didnt had to land nearby Ivan.

If there were only two of us, It would take a lot to get me to jump. Picture both of them in the landing area with broken legs, slowly bleeding to death, and unable to get out or summon help.

I'm the only possible rescue personnel, and I'm taking risks with my ability to perform potentially life saving rescue procedures? Me making the jump can wait. Me providing medical attention, or summoning rescue personnel, or otherwise dealing with the situation, cannot.

The only way I'm jumping in that situation is if I know that my friend is going to die before I can reach him on foot.

I can some how understand you.

BUT i do think you can do safe jumps and dangerus jumps.If your freind is hurt you might dont need to pull off 3 backflips off 300ft before smoking it low.

Perhaps a flat stabel delay(depened on your PC) will be an "safe" option aswell.

i didnt mean making the jump for the pleassure but for the rescue.

Also note what i said that only would jump if i mean i can do it safely,and probaly wouldnt do so on a short delay wind down the wire,scteshy LZ were you probaly could get hurt if you didnt reach the prober LZ or alike.

BUT at example my local A,whith ok wind i probaly jump to get down to my freind as soon as i can.
I however would dial my gf first to let her phone crew me,as i would see it as a solo(talking my safty)

how many times has you as a high jump # jumper walked down due a fella has broken an arm or leg on what you would call a reallaty safe jump?Just wondering..

i will never dye from a simply broken leg.i were close one,i wont let it happen again. i always jump whith my cell phone no matter if im solo or if im whith others.

About 10. I'd have to stop and count them up. The most recent one was in October of this year. One jumper had already landed safely. The other (four) of us walked down to the injured jumper. Even had their been no one on the ground, I'd probably have decided to run down the hill instead of jumping.


I check my cell phone for service at every jump. On the jump I was just talking about, no one had cell service (of 3 phones on the load).

i respect you for your dessision even as i dont fully agree whith it.

I never tryed that i couldnt get contact from my phone.perhaps i never were that far out in the country or im just spoiled. i dunno.

if i didnt had signal on my phone i probaly wouldnt have on the ground aswell,then i also would have climbed down