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Well, heres the deal, she started skydiving last year (July) and now has 70+ jumps and wants to BASE jump.

Is 16 to young or is it moot because I let her skydive that young??

I have not BASE jumped so I told her to talk to some local BASE jumpers in the area and get some input/training from them, and then we would discuss it more.

Any thoughts??

PM sent.

Thank you for your very heart felt advice!!

I can tell from your PM that you respect BASE jumping a great deal and want the best for it and those who partake in it!!

Safe Landings to you all!!

Arvel

The fact she has only 70 skydives and seems not to reflect herself and her abilities in a way she would come to the conclusion that she is far away from having the basis (or basics) to start BASE Jumping in my opinion (also I do not know her) shows that she is definitly far away from being ready to do a BASE Jump - I mean BASE Jumping is not (and should not be) an extreme experience for children and especially not when they have not the experience they need!
As a father I would not let my daughter do a BASE Jump until I know she really has the physical/technical experience and psychological pre-conditions (which includes to know what you are getting into and what the consequences can be; AND that you are absolutly aware of your skills in comparison to the things you want to do!) - I do not think she is with 16 and 70 jumps (also I may be wrong)

Maybe she should have a look at a scene like this
http://www.simnet.is/...x/misc/basejump.mpeg - I think it is essential for understanding BASE Jumping to know how fast risk can turn into something you maybe did not expect ...

She should point her attention on flying headdown and doing some babyswoops - And in 2 years you can still discuss getting into BASE if this is really what she wants to do!

check pm, advise against.

Thank you Dominik!!

Point well taken, I too see that she is not up to the task!!

Arvel

Is she cute?

but seriously,
(forgive thati was out of my element.

i started base not much older than her . Ask yourself if she has a good understanding of what she is getting herself into. I feel i did when i was 17 but maybe i was to young to start also. I am just 20 now, and i think i had a fair handle on it (the reality) then.

BASE is gaining speed, and sooner than later we will have to accept things like FJC's with 50 or less skydives, and 16 year old Base jumpers. not only accept, but grasp that -maybe- they are not that bad.

The bright side is, she asked you and told you. My dad is still weary about me, i couldn't bring myself to tell him about it back then. At least she can talk to you.

and of course, does she want to be a BASE jumper? tossing antenaes all night and wingsuiting off buildings? or is it fleeting (sadly((hapily?)) it usually isnt) maybe she just needs a FJC at a nice bridge, and she will realise she needs more Experience from planes. or you could hold her to the bridge until she is older, and by then be wiser.

Whatever you do, i respect you for even considering it. my father was not so open minded. Your daughter is lucky to have you. peace.

I disagree. Very strongly.

Nascar, for example, has gained a lot of speed--without 16 year old drivers, or drivers who've only just gotten a license.

The level of risk is high enough that I feel it is unethical to teach someone who (a) lacks proper preparation, or (b) does not fully grasp the potential consequences. In my opinion, it is very unlikely that a 16 year old will have sufficient life experience to really understand the potential consequences.

Now THAT is something everyone who wants to jump ought to view before making one.

How good is your insurance? And how much does your daughter know about your insurance bills, and all the financial aspects of life?

Having a drivers license is totally different than owning a car.


Thomas

I had a very interesting learning experience a number of years ago that may help you out.

I trvelled Europe in 1998 and wanted to meet ZOO (JM - a very well known BASE jumper in France). When I came to his house he was outside with his 17yo son inspecting a paraglider. Apparently he had landed in a tree earlier that day.

Later I asked Zoo about his children and BASE jumping. At the time, Zoo had about 1000 BASE jumps and no real accidents. Zoo told me that his son had not made a BASE jump at that stage. He also said that his son was a bit over confident in some respects and had a typical youthful sense of immortality. He would not let his son do any BASE jumps until he showed maturity, respect, and a total understanding of the sport.

He said he would "kill his son" if he caught him jumping before Zoo gave permission. His son told me later that he had not jumped and will not go against his fathers will because he was very passionate about the right attitude in BASE jumping.

Zoo was about 40yo at the time and his family lived near Chamonix. I went to make a jump with him at one of the local sites. We looked over the edge for a few minutes and Zoo said "No, I will not make a jump here today. It is not right", Being Australian, I looked over the edge and wondered what the hell he was on about. THe conditions looked fine to me. Zoo replied that if he did not feel 110% confident in his equipment, his mental state, his physical state, and in the prevailing conditions, he would not jump. Don't forget that he had about 1000 jumps in 1998 - which was rare at the time.

We walked away to jump another day.

I have great respect for Zoo. He is an excellent practioner of the sport, skilled, mild mannered & humble, and an all round nice guy.

I learned a lot about the respect one should have for the sport in those few days with him. It is something all people should learn.

So, if your daughter has the right attitude, etc. Let her go. If not??????????????

THe only flip side is BASE education could be like sex education. You are damned if you do, and damned if you don't. If you ban her from the sport, will she go do it anyway under poorer learning conditions. Or will she be better off with your support and encouragement in going about it the right way.

p.s. Show her the JJ training tapes, that gives it a sense of reality!!!!!!!

p.s.s. my kids are 1.5 and 3.5 - I am not lookign forward to the day when they want to behave like me...

Stay Safe
Good Luck - and I really mean that.
Have Fun

Tom

Great story Tom!!!

I feel the same way about skydiving, I have stayed on the ground when something just was not right!!

However, I do feel skydiving is far safer than BASE jumping.

It truly is about RESPECT!!!

Arvel

I've watched alot of video's in base and skydive and I sure felt something watching that little clip....

I guess it show's that shit can really happen .....

As for your daughter, at least she came to u before attempting base.....

From that I would say that she will listen to your thoughts and input about base jumping....

good luck

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I would say NO.
i do think that people should be in the early 20s were they know more about life and have showen that its not about show off.

besides 70 skydives deafently is too less of my oppinion,she should go out in the skywold and enjoy it much more before she heads towartds BASE.
Skydive is fun aswell you know

Forgive me tom,

My post was poorly written.
This is a sport of respect, and In my defense i disagree with things like 50 jump FJCs and 16 year old BASE jumpers, or even FJCs in general.

i meant to say that they are coming or are already here, and i think that BASE jumpers will have to organise (more?) to stop it. and i dont know what i dislike more, said problems or Organised Base jumpers. Organising (past and present attempts look promising) would be the end of an era of BASE jumping (if it can be done).

I also think the days of one person teaching one person to pack, then explaining the art of A jumping, getting winded off 3 times and then a nice, sh!t in the pants freaky first BASE jump, are diminishing.

Sadly, No longer does getting into BASE mean getting up the guts to go talk to the Scragely, tired guys in the corner of the drop zone packing hangar (fresh off an A) and then getting an earfull from them, and after a week of talking, (and the proper # of jumps) you are ready to -MAYBE- crew for them once or twice.

Base in general is gaining speed exponentially, and it is scary and exciting. but there is not much we can do.

maybe an edit is in order.
I stand corrected.

Honestly, that clip is a lot tamer than the carnage videos I've seen floating around. No one is wiling to post them on the internet (for good reason) but plenty of folks (myself included) have sat down overeager young jumpers and made them watch.

And the carnage videos themselves are far tamer than the real life things I (and pretty much every other experienced BASE jumper) have seen first hand.

Yo!
She got big cans, yo?

Aside from the "is she hot?" comments from the Peanut Gallery (is she hot, BTW? )... the fact that she has only 70 skydives and has expressed an interest in BASE really doesn't surprise me that much. I think we've all seen plenty of skydivers both here on the forums and at the DZ with as many or fewer jumps that have expressed an interest in BASE.

The primary issues, in my mind, are experience and maturity.

If she had, say, 250-300 skydives and has dealt with a number of high-stress situations with a cool head, then I'd say she has the necessary experience.

The next question then, which is much more dicey, is whether she has the maturity to BASE jump. Granted, I've seen 16 year-olds who show remarkable intelligence, insight & judgment. I've also seen 30+ year-olds who exercise the maturity of a 12 year-old.

If I came across a 16 year-old who studied parachute rigging & flight, participated intelligently in technical discussions, ground crewed and demonstrated an ability to thoroughly analyze conditionds and make "go or no" decisions (most importantly, being able to say "no"), then I might... MIGHT... consider them qualified to BASE jump.

Nothing at all against your daughter, but I have yet to come across a 16 year-old who I think would be capable of demonstrating all of that to me... and I really think you need AT LEAST that in order to consider them ready for BASE (just like anyone else).

And by "maturity" I'm not trying to imply that she may be immature in the traditional sense. She could be very mature by most definitions. The kind I'm referring to is very different & subtle, an outlook on life, actions & consequences & and just generally your place in the world, that I think only time can provide.

While the things people are saying about maturity are in a way correct, another thing to think about is that many kids at, say, 15-18 are at their physical peak, they're in great shape, they're attuned to their bodies and have great reaction time! There are people competing (and doing well) at world meets who are 17-18 and have thousands of skydives because they approach their disciplines with seriousness and good coaching.... I have a suspicion your daughter may be one of these, and I would say there is really no reason why she could not begin BASE jumping on Spans with the proper instruction, to get a taste of what the sport is like. It's not like she will go backwards, she may have done more skydives now since your original post... She is only going to get more experienced as she goes along. By the time an opportunity arises for a legal span jump she may have many more jumps in already....

She might be a great student for Tom (you should go out too)! Meanwhile she should be practising accuracy approaches on lightly loaded f-111 seven-cells....

Good luck - and enjoy! I envy you to be able to do something like this with someone you love....

I've seen a lot of carnage in BASE. A lot more than in skydiving.

Honestly, the thing I'm worried about is the psychological impact of being involved in a sport where (by my own informal count) I lose a friend approximately once every 6 months. This takes a toll. I would be concerned that a 16 year old would (a) not be able to understand that up front, and (b) have trouble paying that toll.

Just one reaction concerning this aspect as I can't comment on the sport itself (I'm a beginner).
Being young implies that your body is still evolving/growing.
Would the "hard" opening of slider down jump create troubles that a person could keep for his all life?

Jul.

Its hard to imagine how many more jumps could have been made in the last 2 days

To compete at any skydiving meet you must be at least 18 years old. At least USPA and world meets.

Man, I'm sure glad somone belived in me when I started BASE jumping at 16, I think I had 100 skydives. I think it depends on the perticular youngster we are talking about. Can she fly her canopy well? Land on target every time? Does she have confidence in her ability? If dad has 4400 jumps I bet he could tell if she could handle it better that anyone. On that note if you have any doubt in your daughters ability just wait until you both are confident (obviously). You could teach a monky to jump a bridge and throw. It really comes down to one question: Are you at "one" with your parachute? Just because one guy with 500 jumps can't fly his canopy sensibly does not mean some one with 100 jumps is subject to suck just as bad. Everyone is different. I will always stick up for young BASE jumpers, don't forget we all started somewhere!!! Jeff

No she does not have big cans!!!

But I am hung like a "Fosters" can..........want a drink???

Its all good, we are a skydive family.

Thank you all for your input and education on the sport of BASE, we have talked and she and I may take a FJC sometime in the future.

Arvel

Arvel you are one funny MoFo my brutha from a different mother

Stay safe and tell everyone I said WHADUP

Scott, I live to make people happy

Be safe, come home soon, and PULL MF, Pull!!


Arvel

Its hard to imagine how many more jumps could have been made in the last 2 days

To compete at any skydiving meet you must be at least 18 years old. At least USPA and world meets.
__________________________________________________

Not true. USPA maybe.... Irregardless of the age for competition my point is that an 18 year old doesn't just show up at a world meet having done thousands of jumps since their last birthday. In many Eastern European countries and those such as China, etc., people start skydiving and training (and certainly national competition) at the ages of 16 or even 14 on a regular basis. With proper coaching they are totally able to focus and perform at a championship level... They aren't just given a first jump course and then told to go of on their own and train... Thus I believe with proper coaching some teenagers can be, physically and mentally, good candidates...

As to the first part of your rebuttal, it wouldn't be unusual to do 10 jumps over a 2-day weekend... That would be an increase of over 15%...

Irregardless, it's not like she'd be making the decision to BASE jump and then going out on her lunch break to do it... Presumably there would be some period of preparation... This would allow an open-ended, to-be-determined # of jumpsin order to prepare for the FJC.

Absolutely.



To a degree that's true, though it would be preferable to have a non-relative with 4400 jumps who is familiar with her (and BASE) to make an assessment as well.


This is a very dangerous, and false, statement. BASE ain't that simple.


Again, there's a lot more to the sport than just flying a parachute.


Absolutely agree there.

You could teach a monky to jump a bridge and throw.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


This is a very dangerous, and false, statement. BASE ain't that simple.
__________________________________________________


I believe this first statement is true (as long as you can keep the monkey from trying to climb back up the lines and collapwsing the parachute on the way down). I actually made this statement about 18 years ago on the way to the bridge.

It's all in what you're planning to do after. If you're planning to do a few jumps and then turn them loose on the world, that;s bad, but if the goal is to do a bunch of jumps off one or two or three relatively safe bridges with easy landing areas, then maybe going on to controlled (coached/supervised) jumps off other relatively open objects after proving your skills on the bridge jumps, it is relatively safe. Of course it has to be the right student, but I think we;re being a bit elitist here, assuming we're the only ones that are 'up to the job'.

It may be a job for Ray and Spence's BOUNCE-PROOF BASEJUMPING SCHOOL.

did you try???

I don't think it's a matter of being physically up to the job. The truth is, I don't think it's a matter of being mentally up to the job, either. I can think of plenty of 16 year olds who would qualify in both these regards.

The issue that concerns me is being emotionally up to the job. That means not wanting to bring all your friends along, not needing to have video of yourself on every jump, not being primarily motivated by a desire to be in magazines, and a bunch of other stuff that I'd worry about with most 16 year olds.

But most of all it means being able to withstand the psychological impact of witnessing major, sometimes fatal, trauma. Repeatedly. I wouldn't want my 16 year old daughter to have to deal with that. "Scarred for life" is an overused term, but that's my worry, here. I think that if you put almost any 16 year old (myself included) through say, a high accident summer in Southern Norway, they'd come out an emotional wreck, and the consequences would stick around for a long time. I've seen plenty of 25 year olds have problems with these issues. I doubt that any 16 year old is going to be able to cope. If it was my child, I sure wouldn't want her to go through that kind of thing at that age.

And don't even get me started on the idea of throwing a 16 year old girl into the feeding frenzy that is the (vastly male, mid 20's single, and macho) BASE scene.

Quite wrong Tom. There are plenty of 16 and 17 year olds that race in NASCAR series. They are racing inches from other drivers at high speeds where a mistake on their part can affect much more than their own lives.

This sounds familiar...
I did my first tandem at 14
Did my first AFF and started skydiving at 16 and was dating a BASE jumper at the time.

To cut to the chase, I don't think its a great idea just yet...
PM sent.

[Edited to add that am not currently single]