Going stowed comfort level?
As the the altitude of my stowed jumps is creeping lower and lower, I'm starting to wonder what other people are comfortable with. Where have others drawn the line of what height they will no longer stow their pilot chute and choose to go hand-held instead. This is regardless of pilot chute size, as long as it's stowed it counts. I'm pretty sure my limit is going to be 300', I've worked down to 330' with plenty of canopy time so I think 300' is a good, safe number. Where have you drawn the line?......... Basejumper.com - archive
General BASE
Re: [dhracer33] Going stowed comfort level?
I think you should try going stowed from 200 i think it will work and ill video. Later
Ryan
Re: [dhracer33] Going stowed comfort level?
i have 165ish jumps and lowest stowed you see me is 400ft. personaly i see no reasson(unless the object or winds require)to be stowed lower. but im not into arials anyway...
Re: [dhracer33] Going stowed comfort level?
Peraonally (in my limited experience) I will go hand held anything under 325', just for the same reason as Faber said... but, there is a time when going stowed is more safe and even necessary. Sketchy exits being a big factor or exits where you need both hands. I also have gone stowed from 300' and would consider lower in the future but it was and would be for the reason of aerials. You always have to factor in the possibility for a PC hesitation that is normally eliminated by the hand held setup. Everything could go great 50 times, and then you might have that little hesitation that will put you considerably lower than before. So I think there is a place for going stowed and then sometimes it is just someone thinking maybe it looks cool. Don't know really, just my two cents. Have fun
Adam
Re: [Rauk] Going stowed comfort level?
In reply to:
You always have to factor in the possibility for a PC hesitation that is normally eliminated by the hand held setup. Everything could go great 50 times, and then you might have that little hesitation that will put you considerably lower than before.
>>That's very, very real. That can ruin your life and it's something you need to think seriously about when making the decision to go stowed
Re: [Rauk] Going stowed comfort level?
Bob Sinclair (the skydiver) came to an early Bridge Day (when most of us are still going hand held) where he jumped his ripcord, spring loaded pilot chute, skydiving rig and we all snickered at his choice of gear. He mentioned later that our problem is all these loose pilot chutes and bridles flapping about. (In those days zapped rigs around the launch point are common, and there always seemed to be someone re-closing a rig).
He flat out said we should be going stowed. Yeah, all right old man, and we just snickered some more.
Who's snickering now . . .?
NickD
BASE 194
Re: [Rauk] Going stowed comfort level?
Of course we all know now, that a PC can hesitate even when it was hand held. http://www.blackopselite.com/skydive/late-open.WMV
Re: [sum1sneaky] Going stowed comfort level?
Ah yes, how true that is. Scary, but oh so true. Hey, how are things going by the way? Adam
Re: [dhracer33] Going stowed comfort level?
I was just thinking of an email I got from a helpful friend of mine that was written by Dwain on the phases of inflation of the pilot chute. I have a crappy email form of it, but, Tom, do you happen to have a halfway easy to upload copy by chance?
Re: [Rauk] Going stowed comfort level?
In reply to:
Tom, do you happen to have a halfway easy to upload copy by chance?
I believe what you're looking for his here in the midst of the fatality discussion on BLiNC.
For those not wishing to wade through the full discussion, the relevant part is below:
In reply to:
it is necessary to first outline the different stages of deployment from p/c release to full canopy inflation. The example given here is for a slider removed square (phase 1-6) or for a round canopy packed without a diaper (phase 1-5).
Phase 1: Pilot Chute (p/c) is released
Phase 2: p/c reaches bridle stretch
Phase 3: p/c inflates
Phase 4: p/c extracts canopy to line stretch (there are multiple sub-stages here such as container opening, extraction of canopy from container and lifting of the canopy to line stretch)
Phase 5: canopy achieves bottom skin inflation (there are multiple sub-stages here)
Phase 6: canopy achieves cell pressurization (there are multiple sub-stages here).
Or is that not the one you were looking for?
Re: [dhracer33] Going stowed comfort level?
Unknown nugget: "If you can go, you can stow". It's really up to your own comfort level.
Personally, when doing backflips off a 260' guyed A,
I prefer to have the PC stowed.
Re: [badenhop] Going stowed comfort level?
>>Unknown nugget: "If you can go, you can stow". << Not unknown, Brother . . .
I said that when we first started getting away from going hand held.
Sure, any BASE jump you can do hand held, you can do stowed, but allow me to say something in hindsight.
Sometimes, what I say is lost on the masses, because I fail to pay attention to the masses, especially when I'm trying to sound pithy.
The bottom line is what I said is true, but only when you know what the heck you are doing.
It doesn't apply to people who are just fiddling around and hoping it all just all turns out right . . .
NickD
BASE 194
Re: [NickDG] Going stowed comfort level?
In reply to:
Sure, any BASE jump you can do hand held, you can do stowed...
There ain't no way I'm going stowed from 170'.
Hand held? Ok. Stowed? No how, no way.
Re: [NickDG] known nugget
Thanks, nice to know where it came from. Another jumper from your heyday era gave me the quote,
he just couldn't remember where he'd heard it.
You're right, knowing how and when to do or not do counts.
Re: [TomAiello] Going stowed comfort level?
Tom, It's a matter of degrees. I did a jump from 120-feet over hard ground and for one or two seconds I was looking very good and then in the third second I looked like an idiot and broke myself into a thousand little pieces . . .
So for me, meaning you can stow all the time, doesn't mean on everything, every time, and for everybody. I sometimes forget that people reading what I write won't be able to grasp that. Thanks for setting me straight. I'm as guilty as anyone when remembering what this site is all about.
I am, however, responsible enough to hit delete on about 50 percent of what I write here.
I'm saving all that deleted stuff for the book . . .
NickD
BASE 194
Re: [sum1sneaky] Going stowed comfort level?
Ah, but thinking more, it wasn't the pc that hesitated, it was a hangup on the stow.
Re: [sum1sneaky] Going stowed comfort level?
In reply to:
Of course we all know now, that a PC can hesitate even when it was hand held. http://www.blackopselite.com/skydive/late-open.WMV
Seems to me this is not a valid video in the discussion. Clearly, the PC is inflated, so we what we are seeing is a PC in tow (for whatever reason). We are not seeing any proof of quicker inflation of the PC in the stowed - hand held discusion.
Just my 2 cents,
Ronald Overdijk
wwww.liveskyproductions.nl
Re: [Ronald] Going stowed comfort level?
Technicalities aside: I used to go stowed from our local cliff, which is 63 meters to impact, and slightly taller when you give it a good run. One day when a friend and I felt particularly brave, we decided to do a two-way. He went hand held, and I stowed. To my great surprise, I found myself hanging with my feet on level with his canopy on opening. To the best of our knowledge, we exited and deployed simultaneously. (He jumped a fox 245, and I a mojo 240, both weighing more or less the same +/- 2 kg at). We found that quite interesting at the time, but of course we didn’t have any video to analyse. Now that I’m not that current, I would prefer to go hand held. Though there are some aspects that aren’t really favourable with going stowed from lower objects, I personally think it gives a lot nicer feeling having both arms free both on the exit point, and exit.
Re: [dhracer33] Going stowed comfort level?
My personal thoughts on going stowed: * I won't go stowed below 300 feet above the point I need a flying canopy at. Not necessarily 300 feet to impact. If opening below a certain point means I will not make my landing area and will probably land in trees or other undesirable stuff, then I treat that as the deck for all practical purposes. If the exit point is 200 feet above the point where I need a flying canopy to make a landing area, then I'll go handheld and treat it like a lower jump.
* I won't exit stowed from less than 300 feet to impact. If the exit point is at 300 feet, I will go stowed. If the exit point is 299 feet, I will go handheld. This is a line that exists for me and I respect it. I don't ever want to play the game where I'm moving my hard deck to go stowed lower and lower, based on the success of previous jumps. The possibility of a PC hesitation exists independent of PC performance on prior jumps. The fact that you've done 50 jumps stowed from 300 feet and never had a PC hesitation does not mean you won't experience on on your next jump, all else equal. 300 feet, I'll go stowed. 299 feet, handheld. Your mileage may vary.
* PC hesitations cost you altitude in a big way. Acceleration is exponential. Wasting valuable time up high will burn you lower. Encourage the PC to work right by eliminating some causes of PC hesitations. Just by going stowed you've chosen to open much lower than going handheld.
* Don't stow PC's larger than 46" ever. If you need a 48" PC, you should probably go handheld anyway. Stowing a PC increases the chances that you'll experience a hesitation. This tendency seems to correspond, to a degree, with PC diameter. Larger PC's will hesitate more often than a smaller, lighter PC.
* If you're stowing a 46" PC, repack the pilot chute just prior to exit if practical. This will help reduce the chances of a hesitation.
* Use the super mushroom. I'm not convinced it reduces PC hesitations, as I haven't made enough jumps using it to have a large data sample, but so far I haven't experienced a (noticeable) PC hesitation while using it. It certainly won't increase the chances of a hesitation.
* Even if you do all the above, it might hesitate and you'll know it more the lower you chose to exit stowed.
Re: [DexterBase] Going stowed comfort level?
In reply to:
* Don't stow PC's larger than 46" ever.
I was taught not to go stowed with anything bigger than a 42", even now with my limited experience that still seems like good advice.
Re: [subterminal] Going stowed comfort level?
In reply to:
To my great surprise, I found myself hanging with my feet on level with his canopy on opening.
Why did this surprise you?
Pre-Vtec FOXes had noticeable inflation waves at low airpseed (mojo's did that little hop thing instead). Back in the day, I had a long conversation about it with Slim (this is just when he and DW first demonstrated to disbelieving Americans that 175' cliffs were ok to freefall), and he flat out told me that he wouldn't take a FOX off that cliff because he was worried about the inflation. DW later confirmed that he wouldn't do so either. I believe this was one of the driving forces in the release of bottom skin inlets to the mass market.
I'd say the big thing you experienced was a difference in low airspeed inflation between the two canopies.
Re: [DexterBase] Going stowed comfort level?
In reply to:
My personal thoughts on going stowed:
* I won't go stowed below 300 feet above the point I need a flying canopy at. Not necessarily 300 feet to impact. If opening below a certain point means I will not make my landing area and will probably land in trees or other undesirable stuff, then I treat that as the deck for all practical purposes. If the exit point is 200 feet above the point where I need a flying canopy to make a landing area, then I'll go handheld and treat it like a lower jump.
* I won't exit stowed from less than 300 feet to impact. If the exit point is at 300 feet, I will go stowed. If the exit point is 299 feet, I will go handheld. This is a line that exists for me and I respect it. I don't ever want to play the game where I'm moving my hard deck to go stowed lower and lower, based on the success of previous jumps. The possibility of a PC hesitation exists independent of PC performance on prior jumps. The fact that you've done 50 jumps stowed from 300 feet and never had a PC hesitation does not mean you won't experience on on your next jump, all else equal. 300 feet, I'll go stowed. 299 feet, handheld. Your mileage may vary.
* PC hesitations cost you altitude in a big way. Acceleration is exponential. Wasting valuable time up high will burn you lower. Encourage the PC to work right by eliminating some causes of PC hesitations. Just by going stowed you've chosen to open much lower than going handheld.
* Don't stow PC's larger than 46" ever. If you need a 48" PC, you should probably go handheld anyway. Stowing a PC increases the chances that you'll experience a hesitation. This tendency seems to correspond, to a degree, with PC diameter. Larger PC's will hesitate more often than a smaller, lighter PC.
* If you're stowing a 46" PC, repack the pilot chute just prior to exit if practical. This will help reduce the chances of a hesitation.
* Use the super mushroom. I'm not convinced it reduces PC hesitations, as I haven't made enough jumps using it to have a large data sample, but so far I haven't experienced a (noticeable) PC hesitation while using it. It certainly won't increase the chances of a hesitation.
* Even if you do all the above, it might hesitate and you'll know it more the lower you chose to exit stowed.
Re: [NickDG] Going stowed comfort level?
Yeah, isn't the delete key a wonderful thing? I can't wait to read that book, it will be choice! K
Re: [dhracer33] Going stowed comfort level?
In reply to:
As the the altitude of my stowed jumps is creeping lower and lower, I'm starting to wonder what other people are comfortable with.
I like to go hand-held for slider down and stowed for slider up.
I wonder about the pilot chute influencing heading and therefore like the idea that all of my pilot chute tosses are what's worked well before.
Slider up the object is farther away so it matters less.
Re: [dhracer33] Going stowed comfort level?
If i go handheld from around the 350ft mark i ususally take a good delay, if i go stowed i usually under delay by half a second. That's the confidence difference in having it in your hand i suppose. I don't have any hard and fast rules, i just go with how i feel on the day. I do know i have yet to go stowed below 300ft though.
I've had a pilot chute inflation hesitation from a stowed 350ft bridge jump which although it didn't put me right down there gave me pause for thought.
I'm comfortable where i am at the moment and haven't got plans to change anything soon...but i'll never say never.
Re: [skreamer] Going stowed comfort level?
In reply to:
I was taught not to go stowed with anything bigger than a 42", even now with my limited experience that still seems like good advice.
Last Feb 621 used my vented 42 on a velcrorig and a unvented canopy off PP(230ft if i rember correct) working just fine.
Funny thing is that i found myself using a vented 42 down to 250 and below that i used a vented 46.
Today i use a 46(most times if i rember
)below 300ft and my new broken 48 below 200ft.(sadly didnt got a jump sub 200 since it broke
) I found that the small pcs still worked just fine in the low envioment but in a case of a hessi you really want more fabric to caught air to inflate the pc,therefore i moved up again..
As today i still rarely go stowed,and when i do its not below 400ft.(but hey its not often im above 400ft(actualt last time were in feb
,were i jumped slider off off 500ft
)
Re: [sabre210] Going stowed comfort level?
In reply to:
If i go handheld from around the 350ft mark i ususally take a good delay, if i go stowed i usually under delay by half a second.
I've done a number of stowed go and throws. I went through a phase a while back where I thought it was cool to be stowed at very low altitudes (plus, I was uncurrent handheld and kept getting offheadings from assymetric pitch), so I did way too many low stowed jumps.
My experience was that a stowed PC with zero airspeed is the most likely configuration for a PC hesitation. I'd estimate that I had a noticeable PC hesitation about 1 time in 20 doing "go and stow" jumps.
I guess the reason I'm mentioning this is that it's probably a better reflex to take deeper delays stowed, to minimize the chance of hesitation.
Re: [TomAiello] Going stowed comfort level?
Hey Tom the idea of taking the longer delay whilst stowed makes perfect sense (up to a point). Of course it's a different story when you're in freefall in the pitch black and the blood is pumping.
I don't intend to under delay on these lowish stowed jumps. I just always feel i need to give myself more time for the location, extraction and pitching of the pc than i probably actually need. That's just me....paranoid.
On a specific UK cliff jump from the same height i always find myself opting to go handheld. Consequently i believe i take a solid delay and get a snappier opening with a better chance of being on-heading.
I'll try to re-learn my instinct to go in too early on the stowed jumps though. Could be fun.
Re: [Faber] Going stowed comfort level?
Tom, Faber, Skreamer.... I don't understand the not stowing anything larger than a 42 inch / pilot chute ????
I am not over-exaggerating.
I have done at least 300 jumps with a stowed / 48 inch / pilot chute.
Re: [RayLosli] Going stowed comfort level?
I agree. I did quite a few with my 46" PC and it works just fine. Haven't stowed a 48", but seeing the 46" I don't htink it would be a problem.
Re: [Rauk] Going stowed comfort level?
I'll stow a 46 but not a 48. If you're going to use a 48" PC and go stowed, why not just use a 46?
Re: [DexterBase] Going stowed comfort level?
I never made a 46 inch pilot. I only make and jump, 32 - 38 - 42 - 48 -/ inch
What is the big difference between a 46 aand 48 ???
Re: [RayLosli] Going stowed comfort level?
What advantages do you gain by stowing a 48" PC versus a 42? Edit: I think if you take the same delay with a 48 stowed and repeat the jump with a 42 stowed, you're going to open in the same spot. (short delay)
Re: [DexterBase] Going stowed comfort level?
To tell you the truth I don't do a whole bunch of Pilot Chute swapping around when jumping with no slider. 99 percent of the time I don't swap any pilot chutes out.
I use 48 inch on most everything. with no slider.
I always jump the larger heavier canopy's 285 sq. ft. and bigger usually.
I would say on most of the no slider jumps I do. A 42 inch pilot chute I make would work satisfactory.
Just never worry about it to much I guess
I Just pack it up and jump it.
A couple of months ago I pulled a "New Vented, ZP, 42 inch pilot chute" I sewed up a while back.
It was in a Big-Bag of pilot chutes I keep in the closet in the sewing room.
I threw it in the floor with the intention to put it on and jump it.... I Just haven't got around to it yet.
I think I kicked it out of the way when I got up out of my chair to answer the phone when You
called about a half hour ago.
Re: [RayLosli] Going stowed comfort level?
first off i think going less than 2 secs(what i do whith a 46 or bigger)gives no reasson to jump it stowed.. seccond,i dobelive that that much more fabric in your BOC has more chance to (dunno how to describe it so this aint the way i tenede to say it)get stuck/hard to pull out of the BOC compared an example a 42.
third,you wider your spandex by using such a big pc in it whith could result in a prmature deployment at you use an much smaller pc from same BOC
Walking some "funny" places having my pc handheld just in case i should slip off convinced me that i can be most places by my pc handheld.BUT in them windy days or were there could be many places to snag the bridel you couldnt do so.
I have on my right shouldercover placed a peice of velcro and also on my bridel. that way i can "huck" up the bridel so its not flapping on my bag/container and the only slag is from the shoulder to my hand were i have the pc.
I also agree whith the person asking why stowing a 48 instead of an 46? Personaly i only use a 48 in the sub 1 sec delay range,were i would be as happy to use my 46(in many but not all times)
Ray as i understand you build your pc´s your self,did you try making a 45-46 vented?
im sure you would find it as a great tool,not taking so much room,inflates/pulls nearly the same as a 48
Also how low do you go stowed?
Re: [RayLosli] Going stowed comfort level?
In reply to:
Exit point doesn't allow it?
At this point, that's my biggest reason.
Re: [dhracer33] Going stowed comfort level?
For me it is easy: Slider down, if I can go handheld I will do so. If not I consider stowed.
Slider up, stowed
Super low aerials is not for me, can not see the point.
PerFlare
Re: [RayLosli] Going stowed comfort level?
In reply to:
What is the big difference between a 46 aand 48 ???
looks like about 10-15% more cross-sectional area ... won't that mean a significant difference in snatch force?
Re: [DexterBase] Going stowed comfort level?
Yeah, I talked to M.T. about that not long ago, and his thoughts were that a 46" will pretty much do the same for you as a 48", considering less fabric to need inflating.
Re: [TomAiello] Going stowed comfort level?
My surprise, I guess was mostly due to not knowing the facts you just pointed out ;) Now it makes more sence, and it is still one of those memorable jumps you don't want to repeat. Could probably do with a bit more of separation... Oh.. Here I'm rambe ling again. About time I packed slider down and went back there. At least now some snow makes the landing a tad more forgiving.
Have also noticed the not too eager inflation of many a Fox that are not ventet. Especially the z-p topskin onces subterminal...
Seasons greetings to all
CJ =)
Re: [subterminal] Going stowed comfort level?
about 300 feet is were i draw the line for going stowed...i haven't gone hand held for about 45 jumps untill yesterday jumping a 310 foot rock in a blizzard..made me feel alot better having the PC in my hand ...one of the most nerve racking jumps but one of the best ....5 good friends one of them making his first cliff jump in a snow storm
CYA
Sky SLC Crew
Re: [Faber] Going stowed comfort level?
In reply to:
Walking some "funny" places having my pc handheld just in case i should slip off convinced me that i can be most places by my pc handheld.BUT in them windy days or were there could be many places to snag the bridel you couldnt do so.
What about when you have to climb a narrow tower, and cannot easily or safely unstow at the top and go hand held? A's that need to be climbed on the outside, because the inside is too narrow to crawl into.
In reply to:
I have on my right shouldercover placed a peice of velcro and also on my bridel. that way i can "huck" up the bridel so its not flapping on my bag/container and the only slag is from the shoulder to my hand were i have the pc.
I have heard concern over this set-up. An earlier rig of mine had a piece of velcro down on the bottom flap and the bridle, that would attach on the right corner where the BOC pouch had the opening. It was mentioned before to me, that I should NOT use that velcro piece when going hand held, and from lower heights. The reason was this.
Shrivel Flap.
The shrivel flap will peel in a head down, or stand up orientation. Velcro itself however, needs much more shear force to unhook it. So a head down/stand up position could cause a pc in tow, because of the angle at which the velcro is trying pull.
Anyone else ever hear this?
Later,
Thomas
Re: [CrazyThomas] Going stowed comfort level?
In reply to:
In Reply To
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Walking some "funny" places having my pc handheld just in case i should slip off convinced me that i can be most places by my pc handheld.BUT in them windy days or were there could be many places to snag the bridel you couldnt do so.
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What about when you have to climb a narrow tower, and cannot easily or safely unstow at the top and go hand held? A's that need to be climbed on the outside, because the inside is too narrow to crawl into.
In reply to:
In Reply To
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have on my right shouldercover placed a peice of velcro and also on my bridel. that way i can "huck" up the bridel so its not flapping on my bag/container and the only slag is from the shoulder to my hand were i have the pc.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have heard concern over this set-up. An earlier rig of mine had a piece of velcro down on the bottom flap and the bridle, that would attach on the right corner where the BOC pouch had the opening.
my velcro is at the place were you stow your bridel at your SHOULDER as you go handheld and not other places... I used this on sub 200ft whith out any problems.
I found that the bridel clear better than if you stow it under your risers or just the flap(were i dream of a kind off a hang up.. i will post pics as i get home in abit...
Re: [Faber] Going stowed comfort level?
Yo Faber, I think what Thomas means is that little bit of velcro you have on your shoulder won't shrivel. It may be only small but in a vertical deployment position could it be enough to cause even a slight hesi?
I've seen the same thing on other rigs btw. When going handheld on my Gargoyle I just lightly tuck the bridle under the top right flap.
On the subject of stowed comfort level: My regular A is 360 ft and I almost always go handheld, I think it takes one link out of the chain and I think you're less likely to distort your body position and induce an off-heading. The times I've jumped that same A stowed I've opened noticeably lower with the same delay. I think you just have to be aware of it.
Gus
Re: [CrazyThomas] Going stowed comfort level?
In reply to:
The shrivel flap will peel in a head down, or stand up orientation. Velcro itself however, needs much more shear force to unhook it. So a head down/stand up position could cause a pc in tow, because of the angle at which the velcro is trying pull.
For my hand held jumps I always use this small piece of velcro at the bottom of my right flap, to avoid the bridle to catch my rig's corner.
I think that such a small piece of velcro cannot cause the PC to hesitate, especially because when this piece of velcro is pulled, almost all the length of the bridle is out, allowing maximum traction for the PC. That's also why I think that a small piece of velcro on the shoulder (thanks Faber for the pics) is not so good because it "shortens" the bridle.
Re: [gus] Going stowed comfort level?
In reply to:
When going handheld on my Gargoyle I just lightly tuck the bridle under the top right flap.
WHY? Becourse its close to your shoulder which you move arround and therefore has a greater chance to snag inside.just try to get a fella to wear a rig and ask him to do the same on his boby as he does in a shortdelay(less than 4 secs) if you place your finger were the bridel should be you will understand what i say.
Also you should be in exact degreel if the velcro should be hard to pull.even at that you could do some pull tests and then compare to how much your pc will pull at a given time(that tekst is out here somewere).
I tend to pull higher as i go stowed,so i often choose handheld so i get a better groundrush...
Re: [CrazyThomas] Going stowed comfort level?
In reply to:
...I should NOT use that velcro piece when going hand held, and from lower heights. The reason was this.
Shrivel Flap.
The shrivel flap will peel in a head down, or stand up orientation. Velcro itself however, needs much more shear force to unhook it. So a head down/stand up position could cause a pc in tow, because of the angle at which the velcro is trying pull.
The pull force of the very small velcro patch in a shear direction is less than the pull force of your shrivel flap in a straight direction. If you take a spring scale and measure it, that should allay your concerns.
Also, the velcro flap at the shoulder is a good idea (or some other thing that does the same job, like a tuck flap, or just tucking the bridle in). If the bridle blows back under your arm our the lower corner of the rig, you'll tow the PC. There was a (beginner) fatality from this malfunction in France (perhaps 2 years ago? check the list).
Re: [TomAiello] Going stowed comfort level?
That's the ticket. It had the differences in pilot chutes regarding why a 52" works differently than a 48" and why. That is the one though. thanks
Re: [TomAiello] Going stowed comfort level?
Thanks Tom And Faber. Faber, I re-read the text again, and see that you adddressed my first concern.
And on the second part, the velcro piece. I never measured it with a spring scale, so I don't have numbers. I can see the benefits of having it, even just in climbing over rails, or other barriers that need to be climbed over.
Thanks for the feedback. Maybe in the future I will get this velcro piece added to my rig and bridle again.
Thomas
Re: [CrazyThomas] Going stowed comfort level?
In reply to:
the velcro piece. I never measured it with a spring scale, so I don't have numbers
You gonna have a fella helping you whith finding the place the velcro. too long back its a pain in the a#s to huck up on solos too much in the front makes the strong pull(we talked about) more likely under an headdown.
Also make sure that you dont have "flapping" bridel on your back as you hooked it up,which you could snag whith the wind could pull under a corner and so..