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General BASE
Re: [Treejumps] Regulating commercial BASE instruction
I thought you said you have a job. It must not require much of your attention.
Give up your crusade.
It's a joke!
Re: [Treejumps] Regulating commercial BASE instruction
In reply to:
I think that the thread on Miles has gotten the attention it deserved. For all we know its a spoof just to get attention for someone who craves attention. However, it brings to light a subject that will have major impacts on BASE long into the future. What do we do about every wa-hoo that wants to start a "base school" and utilize (jeopardize) our very limited legal base resources?
If you think that this is not a big deal, then try to go jump the cliffs in Yosemite, or any other National Park. The actions of a very selfish few have prevented (or at least contributed in a very significant way) all of us from legally jumping some of the best cliffs in the owrld, right in our backyard. That is how big the stakes are.
Self policing is not working. Self interested un-ethical jumpers are poised to ruin things, again. I submit to you, the base community, that those who choose to attempt to commercialise BASE are stealing from you. At a bare minimum they are risking your access for a few bucks and an ego stroke. While it may not be possible (or desirable) to regulate base at TF, or other locations, any commercial operation is easily regulated. Rafting, rock climbing, sight seeing, and other similar companies are licensed and regulated, why not BASE Instruction for hire? By taking students (especially unqualified ones) to TF, you are risking access for all with potential lawsuits against the city of TF for allowing such activities. It may not be popular to talk about regulating these things, but there are folks out there looking for ways to shut us down and this is a terrific opportunity for them.
Town councilman: Oh dear, what if one of their students dies, or worse, becomes incapacitated, and we get sued? Well, if we can't stop foolish instruction, we'll just shut the whole thing down. This is the future if we can't figure it out on our own. You say it can't happen? Then go jump El Cap around noon on a nice Saturday, and let me know how it goes.
Please post your ideas on how to NOT have history repeat itself. We have it good right now, but the future does not look so bright give the activities of the last year.
Its your sport too.
Very well said!
Re: [Treejumps] Regulating commercial BASE instruction
God no. Maybe instead the mass advertising of such instruction in Skydiving magazine should be scrutinized by their publisher.
Re: [460] Regulating commercial BASE instruction
House getting a parking ticket. That's pretty good. Got to laugh for the first time in a couple of days.
Maybe I'm not a typical case, but I learned to base jump when there were'nt any schools of any kind. Can't remember exactly but I seem to recall being at least half drunk at the time.
I think we should at least try to look at some of the positive ways the sport has progressed. The fact that there are legal places to teach, a good thing. Daylight, a good thing. Base specific gear, a very good thing. General interest in the sport, good as well.
There is no way to regulate how people will come into the sport. Just as the gear does not need to be TSO'd, so too is there no regulation possible on who teaches who. My first instructor is dead. I have plenty of hindsight. But let's not be hyper-reactionary. Base jumping has a life of it's own, it always has and always will. And the people involved have minds of their own. Like it or not, what is going to happen will happen regardless of me, you or any other. The best we can do is constructively support each other in our personal endeavors.
Re: [460] Regulating commercial BASE instruction
In reply to:
God no. Maybe instead the mass advertising of such instruction in Skydiving magazine should be scrutinized by their publisher.
I sent Mike Truffer an e-mail and asked him to review both threads.
rl
Regulating commercial BASE instruction
While I can appreciate the idea that Skydiving Magazine should filter out the fluff in their magazine, does anyone really believe that they have the time to investigate each and every ad? Probably not gonna happen. What would Skydiving Magazine base their decision on anyway - dropzone.com threads? Maybe if everyone put as much time into gaining legal access to NPS cliffs as they've put into this (and similar) threads, then we'd be making some progress.
PS. How ya been, Rhonda? Hope all is well.
Re: [base428] Regulating commercial BASE instruction
In reply to:
While I can appreciate the idea that Skydiving Magazine should filter out the fluff in their magazine, does anyone really believe that they have the time to investigate each and every ad? Probably not gonna happen. What would Skydiving Magazine base their decision on anyway - dropzone.com threads?
Maybe if everyone put as much time into gaining legal access to NPS cliffs as they've put into this (and similar) threads, then we'd be making some progress.
PS. How ya been, Rhonda? Hope all is well.
speaking of which, can you update us on what we can do to help the NRGB legalization that you talk about on the site ? I am sure quite a few people would be willing to donate or do some work in order to help.
Please PM or post the details... - it's 5hrs drive to NR for me or a nice 2 layover flight to TF - guess which one I'd rather jump at :)
Re: [vid666] Regulating commercial BASE instruction
I hope that we are not getting into TSO'd rigs, US BASE Association approved instructors, and memberships. The whole silly thread started because Miles claims to be "World Famous". Maybe he is, maybe he isn't. If you like him, his ethics, or his shiny helmet, good. If you don't, he doesn't care. Are you going to tell the paragliders or deathcamers that they are absolute idiots? Not capable of making decisions concerning their own life? I'm sure they know that BASE is dangerous, and that they are way under the industry standard minimums. However, BASE is about personal risk assessment, and realizing that you are more likely to pay the price if you go to TF after AFF 7.
Miles isn't a dummie. And he is a good, if not great jumper. If his students are willing to jump, they should be able to jump. What if it was legit to bungee off the TF bridge, and a couple high school kids showed up from Cali to have a fun weekend with rubber bands? Would you tell them that they are unsafe and that it is a BASE only bridge? Are you going to hide my rig when I start practicing quadruple gainers out there? Personal safety and risk assessment are a personal thing, and I doubt that a city that is so open and generous to let us do something that is otherwise illegal, would panic and overreact to yet another fatality. They know it isn't safe, and they know that we make our own decisions.
I'm all about site preservation. Especially in TF. But I am more into people exploring BASE in their own way, without the man telling them what they can and can't do...
Just my thoughts.
Re: [base428] Regulating commercial BASE instruction
In reply to:
While I can appreciate the idea that Skydiving Magazine should filter out the fluff in their magazine, does anyone really believe that they have the time to investigate each and every ad? Probably not gonna happen. What would Skydiving Magazine base their decision on anyway - dropzone.com threads?
Truffer is not the sort of guy to be blown around willy-nilly by the winds of public opinion. On the other hand, my personal experience is that he *is* willing to listen to a reasonable argument. And he's not some johnny-come-lately to the sport of parachuting, so none of this is new to him. ("This" being the controversy over a lone individual striking out on his own without the approval of the group he will ultimately affect, for better or for worse.)
What Miles is doing is not new, even if the bright idea behind it is. But news travels farther faster these days, so there are more opportunities to heat up the old tar pot, figurative or otherwise. (N.B. to Miles: You ignore this and other internet discussions at your peril. If you think that what is written here can't impact you, think again.)
But the rest of you can plan on a choice of forks somewhere down the road. Either you adhere--without exception--to that somewhat fluid and elusive BASE "Code" we hear about every now and again or you'll find you have no choice but to reinvent yourselves as the BASE equivalent of USPA.
rl
P.S. to Jason: All is well. Thanks for askin'. :)
Re: [base428] Regulating commercial BASE instruction
Jason, I was going to ask the Arches NP if I can fly over with my skydiving canopy and swoop over their 'Arches NP" sign.
That would make a great shot. I'm asking for permission. It's Moab, maybe they'll let me???
Never know unless you try.
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Re: [peterk] Regulating commercial BASE instruction
>>I hope that we are not getting into TSO'd rigs, US BASE Association approved instructors, and memberships. << No worries . . .
We've already addressed that years ago. As long as their is one curious and courageous boy (or girl) and an available source of F-111 and Parapak, there will always be BASE jumping as we know it now. No one will ever be able to sell, rent, or bottle this sport.
And that's the beauty of it . . .
NickD
BASE 194
Re: [vid666] Regulating commercial BASE instruction
Stay tuned. I can't divulge what's going on, but you'll know exactly what the outcome is by the end of the year. Currently, I'm submitting a proposal to the Dept. of Highways for extending BD. The DOH has been pretty cool with the idea so far. The Bridge Day Commission, for some reason, claims that jumping outside of the normal 6 hour Bridge Day window is not something they can control or govern. So they've sent us to the appropriate agencies to submit proposals and such. So far, so good.
In reply to:
...update us on what we can do to help the NRGB legalization