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Anyone see the new Skydiving mag? This takes the cake for being a glory hound, and in general, a giant dick.

Miles, I know that your head has swelled to gigantic proportions from the attention you recieved from hanging out with Charles Brian & Mike Vail (who actually are famous amongst skydivers), but the first rule of fame is that if you have to advertise that you are famous, you aren't. There must be at least 100 people world wide more qualified in every way to teach base than you. Your ethics suck and the last thing base needs are more pepole who approach the sport as you do. As a clown at the circus looking for attention.

Stick with skydiving. Somebody there might believe you.

You may now return to your regularly scheduled program.

is this a personal attack? maybe post a copy of the article so we all can see?

This is more of a public service anouncement. I uploaded the ad.

Edited to add: I guess now that Miles nearly went in at BD, to some extent, he is famous.

This is a sample intro:

Miles: Hi I'm Miles D., world famous base jumper.

BASE Wuffo: Aren't you that dude who nearly died doing some really simpleton stupid kids shit at BD?

Miles: Why yes, you do know me. (WOW, I AM FAMOUS)

BASE Wuffo: Bugger off. I think I'll take a course from someone with some commom sense, who has been a real part of base, and who actually cares about base, where it is going, and the people involved. Are you wearing blush?

here it is...

Beat you to it.

Yes you did...
But not by much...

what are the prereq's for going on this course?

There are none. Zero skydives required.

I talked to Miles about this earlier in the summer. His target market is "people who don't have enough skydives to get into one of the courses" (his words).

Party on...

Good business idea - he knows that more and more low-number skydivers are thinking about BASE. He'll probably make a load of cash....


Shit...


looks like a classic example of ego and cash taking place in front of morals and ethics...

seeing that most people feel that the min skydive limit is set too low for some countries, then this is obviously a really good idea!

Just for information: if there are any UKers looking to do this course, dont expect anyone to hook up with you or help you on your return back.............. if you dont put in the time, then why should we bother.............

http://www.milesdaisher.com/basecamp.htm

website isn't even fully up... unprofessional looking...

Is this the same "Miles" who's feet hit the trees just as his canopy opened at this year's Bridge Day?

I had just landed and saw that whole thing. Now, I've always respected otherwise qualified jumpers who push the envelope. I don't respect people who do so just to gain attention. I then heard a few people dissing this fellow and later I sought him out to see for myself.

I walked up to him as he was holding court and instead of introducing myself I just listened to him for a few minutes. I then quickly moved away . . .

I don't know, sometimes I think we are victims of our own success.

NickD
BASE 194

Yea, I wonder whose idea it was for the low 'cutaway' man to have a slider up rig on that 'stunt'??? I 'heard' later on in the day they did the same stunt successfully, and the low man was slider down....it was scary to watch the first one and I couldn't believe he wasn't hurt....o well, I guess red bull does give you wings.....
Anywho, ditto for what Mac said, any locals from 'our' side that go, don't expect a warm welcome home.......
Of course, you could always go out there and get a A+++ course from a major manufacturer, or even possibly a free course from THE MAN, TA.
Later
Blair

PS and by 'free' I only mean no charge for the instruction, nothing in BASE is free, but its SOOOOO worth it.

Hey Treejumps (mark Kissner)

KILL YOURSELF

jt holmes

Though I think what JT said was out of line, I also don't like hearing people talk shit about my friends. Miles is one of the nicer people I have met on my short journey through BASE, and even if some of his antics may merit some criticism, I don't think critique is what is taking place here. I have heard good things from good people about you Tree, and that is why I am doing my best to write this as tactfully as possible. I just can't stand there and listen to you call a person who has treated me with nothing but respect a giant dick. Please don't take this as any kind of an attack, and don't think I am defending others actions, I will only defend my own (if they warrant defense). Anyway, I hope someday we will meet and share an exit point, but if being friends with Miles alienates me from that, then so be it.
Peace
Adam Foster

I would have thought knowledge of nuclear winds
& the wearing of penis shaped helmets would have been obligatory ?

Miles may be your friend, but his ethics suck. He is not only okay with being the one responsible for bringing people into BASE that have absolutely no business being there, but he is advertising and promoting it. You are friends and have probably talked to him about it, do you know what his motivation is? What are these people going to do once they have done a couple of jumps, have inadaquate knowledge of the sport and go back home? It sounds like in the UK, they're pretty much assed-out as far as help goes.

I don't know Miles personally, but I hold Rauk's opinion highly and he's probably a pretty nice guy, but being a nice guy doesn't make his ethics or actions acceptable by me.

Katie.

Hi JT,

Still looking forward to meeting you. Hope you are back in TF when I visit this spring.

Cheers.

Hi Adam,

Miles is a very fun guy, maybe even a nice guy to hang out with. I met him in 99' at the Tahoe Freefly festival. That does not mean that his approach to base is not incredibly flawed. Look what his attitude (and others like him) have produced for BASE. Death camping? A base school set up for complete whuffos? Nearly killing himself at BD with nothing short of a highschool like stunt? The problem is not that I am calling Miles out as a dick, the problem is that he is acting like one.

Now if seeing an average at best base jumper opening a "base school" for whuffos (he said this, not me) , and advertising himself as "World Famous" does not qualify one as a dick, then what does? He might be a very pleasnt guy to hang out with, and maybe he was nice to you, but his actions are completely against the best interestes of base (in general) and completey centered around what makes Miles look good (in his own head).

I can't stop him from makng his best attempt to fuck up a nice little sport, but I can say my piece on it. If I instigate others into dissing Miles, or better, than as I see it I am doing my part to try to protect a sport that has given me a great deal. Miles is milking base for anything he can get out of it any way he can. I don't like that kind of selfishness and I think that it is very un-cool, and un-base like.

If I am wrong then at worst I am the dick (some would say that is already true) Big deal. If I am right what you are seeing is the rapid degradation of a sport and it's community, and the ethics that has held it together to date.

Frankly I think that that type of behavior is just pathetic. How much attention does one need to keep feeling good about ones self?

I would be pleased to jump with anyone who goes by the title, "the B Team". Nice work you guys.

more easy you do it(to your self)it will save the rest of us alot of work tracking you down..

Miles... BAD idea!!!

I personally would like to thank Miles for expediating the mind numbingly slow process of natural selection.

"I would be pleased to jump with anyone who goes by the title, "the B Team". Nice work you guys."

Thanks Mark, I appreciate that. Don't think I don't respect where you are coming from with this, I do.

Looking forward to it.
Adam

first, I don't know Miles or near enough to train anyone.

but I have two quick questions to those who feel Miles is being unfairly attacked...

has he taught YOU much regarding the sport?
would you feel comfortable having Miles train one of your family?

If you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all..... Miles is fun as hell and untill someone cames back from the course with a bad taste then I guess we will here from them.
ANDY

There are two issues:

Miles behaves like a dick and showes no respect to the sport. Therefore he is shown no respect and is being called a dick. That seems to be fine and fair and can be left as it is. There is no harm in him being a fool and a clown.

However, some of his actions cause actual damage, especialy the one now being discussed in this thread. I understand that many people have tried to talk to Miles without any results. BASE is a small self-policing community of people who generaly follow common sense but disregard the law, and where violence had been used before to correct the most outrageous ethic violations. I really hope it does not come to that point, but it sure looks like it is getting close.

On a side note, just being a dick does have its disadvantages. Miles was not welcome at Royal Gorge event, and at this rate will be banned from a lot of others.

bsbd!

Yuri.

In fact, Miles was one of the only people that I asked for advice when I was learning how to do double and triple gainers in ID. So yes, he did teach me a little something.

Miles is perhaps one of the nicest, friendliest guys that I have met, and I smile every time I see him. He just has a different style, different needs, different reasons for jumping- I guess. And I don't always agree with what my friends do...

LOL amen to that.

Also - Tree - I respect most of what you say - but I know a couple of BTeamers, and they are very intelligent people that I personally would have no issue learning base from. They respect the base world and the underlying ethics rather nicely - not burning sites, integrating with the current locale of base'ers. I've never heard anything but good about those folks... That and one of em sold me a beautiful rig ;-)

I'm sure I probably shouldn't even reply to this rediculous thread. But this a personal attack on a very close personal friend of mine.

Miles Daisher is by far one of the most talented BASE jumpers in the sport. That's not an opinion, it's a fact. His skill speaks for itself. If almost going in on a single jump meant you were no good, then none of us are any good.

His ethics, as if that really matters, are impeccable. He would never do anything to endanger the sport, and if people think he would or has, they are ill-informed and know nothing about what they are talking about.

In fact, Miles is doing more for the sport than anyone. Period. Everyone who has a problem with him, in fact, have problems with their own jealousy issues. Miles has worked very, very hard to be where he is in both sports: BASE as well as skydiving.

He does require a student to have Skydives before teaching them to BASE jump. You all have him confused with Shane, who will teach his friends without prior skydiving experience. As if that matters.

People should beware of joining in on others who have problems with Mile's BASE school because many of them are trying to begin their own BASE schools. They try to belittle him because he is the most qualified BASE jumper to teach any level of the sport and he poses a huge amount of competition.

Would I rather have a friend of mine learn from Miles, whose most severe injury to date is a scratched thumb or Mr. Tom who actually did go in at twin and who is lucky to be alive.

This sport is becoming a joke. Filled with jealous children who can't stand to see other jumpers achieve success.

And Mr. Tree Jumps. I have never seen you post anything positive on this forum. You betray your unhappiness with all your unecessary criticism of those you don't know.

Would you please just suck your thumb quietly.

Sorry Jimmy but i dont see it,perhaps as im on the other side of the pond,But all i see to Miles is as he is in a tv show or somthing. yes he did some badass shit(i wont dublicate his naked jump on Baffin island) But i actualy never saw him doing anything for the sport besides Joining iit and is ucky enough to have sponsors.
Does that make me jaloux? perhaps abit,but not enough that it would lead to slamming at him whith out reasson.
IF Miles are teaching people how to BASE whith 0 or close to 0 skydives then I think his wrong,and i will say so.NOT becours his sponsored but becours i dont want anymore to die in this sport..

Dunno, stuff he does in the real world (like saving a certain Russian wingsuit flyer from drowning in Norway) counts for more in my book. But yes he does come across as a bit of a Negative Nancy on the internet. As far as this thread, I don't know the guy involved or the full story so can't comment. Maybe everyone else who doesn't know the full story or the people involved shouldn't comment either.

Will

I would have to say yes, he has taught me, whether he realized it or not. A lot of people have. Miles, though, taught me about pushing limits, I have watched (and heard of) him do things I never would imagine doing. Now I am at a point (in one year) where I never imagined I would ever be. The first aerial I saw in real life was Miles doing a wild turkey, or something or other, in Twin. That was close to six months ago, and I just did my first double gainer off of MG in Moab last week. I have done more than a dozen triples off of the potato, numerous other aerials. Not that that is meant to impress, but I never imagined I would be where I am right now, and at least a little of that motivation came from, yes, "the world famous" Miles Dasher. Second, I wouldn't want him to teach my family, no. I wouldn't want anyone to teach my family, solely because I wouldn't want them to BASE jump, it would scare me too much. So I guess that answers your questions, and I thank you, you made me think about that one . I think how Peter said it works well for me too, I don't always agree with my friends, but they will remain my friends.
cheers everyone.
Adam

All right,
lets talk about teaching people to jump with little to no skydiving experience.

Let's keep in mind that no one will ever agree on a fixed number.

Fist of all, the main reason a person needs prior experience is canopy recognition and control. But if proir canopy exerience is neccessary before teaching someone to fly a canopy, then how do people learn to skydive? All you can do is explain to them what is probably going to happen, what could happen, and what shouldn't happen but still might. Then you explain to them what to do in a variety of situations. Then you throw them off a bridge or out of a plane.

I am obviously talking about teaching people at Twin. It's a bridge over water remember? And they will have a maximum canopy flight of fifteen to twenty seconds. They won't have time to fly anywhere dangerous. At the DZ we send static line students out of a plane with zero prior experience and they have 3,000 feet to fly anywhere they like. Sometimes that means off into the sunset.

I'm more concerned with people getting the 100 pre-requisite jumps then ending there skydiving career. As if after 100 skydives, you know everything you need to know about body flight and nylon.

All of this is dealing with individuals and huge grey areas. Some people are born ready and others never will be.

But lets remember, we do want our sport to grow. Growth is the one thing that will lead to the legitimazation of our sport and legal sites world wide. By representing our sport VERY WELL to the general public, often on TV, Miles is doing more than anyone.

He is an amzing person, highly skilled, and plays well to the general television audience. THAT IS NOT A BAD THING!

Sometimes it seems as though BASE jumpers want the sport to remain underground. Like fans who are dissapointed when a garage band gets famous, they would rather it stay small, obscure, and generally unknown.

BASE jumping, as a sport is blowing up, and yes a few key people will appear to have the lime light. It just so happens that Miles deserves any amount of success he attains. I have known him since '97 and have watched him work very hard.

-jimmy

In this thread i can see that there are a few close friends defending Miles at all cost, and everybody else biting him hard. This brings an obvious observation:

I hope you are right and Miles is a nice person in real life. If that is the case, the image he chooses to project outside is grossly mismatched. It comes out very arrogant, and for people who don't know him personaly a lasting impression is very unpleasant. He will continue to take $hit if such image does not get adjusted, and it sucks even more if it happens for artificial reasons.

I doubt that competing base schools have anything to do with it. The whole issue started long before that.

bsbd!

Yuri.

P.S. I cannot recall any world-famous base jumpers ever advertising themselves as such

THe reason you will find his friends defending him at all cost is because those who know him and are not jealous of what he can do/has done, will not not stand for this rediculous abuse.

What does it matter what he calls himself? Famous, not famous, world famous? Who cares?

My god, we're talking about what shows up in the press. Learn some PR. Pepsi calls itself the choice of a whole generation. Does Coke care? Or call it egotistical?

Why is it when someone does something that someone else doesn't like, the first thing that happens is that a post gets made, trying to influence "public" opinion about them. I wonder out of all the posts stating that someone believes that someone else is a dick, if there was ever a call made. I bet that Miles has a phone number, and I would also assume that it would be more appropriate to call him, tell him you feel that he is acting like a punk, and when he tells you to f-off, then slam him online.

The internet is the perfect place for misunderstanding and skewing public perception... There are people online here that I would love to choke. But I don't think there is a jumper that I've met in person that I didn't really like. But slamming on someone that is never going to come on here to defend themselves is silly... Jimmy, Miles owes you a beer...

but peter, moutain dew is a pepsi product....

when will there be a base jumpers virtual boxing site?
when i get bored i visit here for the drama/comedy factor......play on..........




edited to say......is Tom A. asleep or at lunch?

Actualy a lot of jumpers care, a majority perhaps. The key word here is "arrogant". There are different ways to present yourself on TV. Some get a lot of respect, take Jeb for example. Others do not. When somebody lowers himself down to a clown level and makes a fool of himself in front of an audience and especially in front of other jumpers, he is treated as such. Look at Felix. Miles is closing up on the same image.

I doubt that jealosity is a major player here. Many of the jumpers critisizing Miles make a better living that he does, and some are arguably better and more experienced base jumpers


Speaking of PR: there is a common and well-supported opinion that Red Bull encourages ethically questionable stunts to gather maximum attention. This brings another whole issue of "selling out".

bsbd!

Yuri.

I'm not a BASE jumper (yet), and I hope I'm not going too far off topic with this post, but I'm curious how important terminal freefall body skills are. Is there any place in the BASE environment that you can safely experience terminal freefall for the first time? I'm under the impression (though I could be very wrong) that the only terminal BASE jumps you can do are within close proximity to a wall that you run a high risk of backing into if you either don't know (a) how to exit properly and (b) how to control your body in both sub-terminal and terminal freefall. The only places I can think of to learn freefall skills safely are skydiving and wind tunnels.

Not trying to say I know anything here. Just spitting out my current perception and begging anybody to correct me if I'm wrong. Terminal BASE jumps (with a WS) are one of my ultimate goals in the sport of parachuting. :)

"arrogence" Exactly! I'm arrogent, a lot of people I know are arrogent, but miles is anything but arrogent. He is funny, sometimes silly, and maybe a little cocky, but not arrogent.

I've seen all the same stuff as everyone else, and to call his representation of the sport arrogent is nothing short of ignorant.

You bring up Jeb. I don't know him so I won't call him arrogent, but my guess is that he is so well respected because he doesn't need to be sponsored to go the places he goes. Had anyone else footed his bills, an energy drink company for instance, his reputation may be different. Not because of himself or his true personality, but because of the sport's apparent general disgust of those who have "sold out." I'd like to know how Miles has sold or out or anyone else for that matter. Miles has never done anything he wouldn't have done regardless of sponsorship. But sometimes Red Bull foots the bill, and that's when you see it.

90% of what Miles has done was done under the cover of darkness. All Red Bull does is occasionally pay for the daylight.

I wonder how Red Bull would feel if this guy took some wuffo on a BASE jump that resulted in his or her highly publicized death or paralysis. -Chris

Notice Nick DG's comment about quietly walking away at Bridge Day ? I've done the same It may have been a mistake and once again i hope you are right.

This is the key: Miles may be nice but his image is hopelessly arrogant and that, the image, needs to be fixed. I know a bit about this because i have created my own arrogant image in the good old days of rec.skydiving. It was fun while it lasted, but took some effort to get rid of later in life.


That is correct. Jeb is respected because he makes a lot of money by doing what he does without selling out or being sponsored. He does not work as a clown but rather runs his own show. This is a true skill and something to be jealous about

bsbd!

Yuri.

Maybe the same way Go Fast felt when a highly experienced jumper died at one of their events.

A lot of publicity, of any kind, will bring more customers and more sales, just like skydiving fatalities bring more students to DZs. Red Bull would feel happy.

bsbd!

Yuri.

Perhaps, but a highly experienced jumper is fairly different than an uneducated wuffo sold on the idea of making a nearly risk free base jump - a realm where a lack of skill can easily result in a disaster.

I certainly don't care a bit about the so-called arrogance of any jumper. Jumpers seem to have very large but fragile egos, myself included. Arrogance doesn't bother me a bit though.

The lack of skill issue is critical. It was a lack of skill on my part in 1996 when I shattered my femur and landed on an ant bed. I repeat, the skill issue is critical and I think it is wrong to sell the idea of base to the wuffo public. But hey, maybe there are actually some criteria he uses for screening potential jumpers.

Hello,
It is tough when some of your friends don't like some of your friends.
The BASE community is still fairly small, so it's hard to avoid.
I do consider MD a friend, but his "way" just plain sucks.
Now some will come to his defense, some will not.
Other mutual friends will comment…….

Sorry Jimmy, but I have to ask:


>>Miles Daisher is by far one of the most talented BASE jumpers<<

What?! How do you figure?
How is his talent far better than yours or mine?

>>His ethics, as if that really matters, are impeccable.<<

What?! How do you figure?
He is a day-blazing clown who snubs his peers.

>>In fact, Miles is doing more for the sport than anyone. Period.<<

What?! How do you figure?
What is he doing that is good for you or me?

>>He is the most qualified BASE jumper to teach the sport.<<

What?! How do you figure?
There are so many others with so much more to offer.


I talked to Miles in the parking lot on Bridge Day. When asked about his antics at Twin, he said "we" had it all wrong. According to him, all the stuff was made up, he was playing by all the rules. He did not seem to care at all about the problems BASE jumpers face, and did not care to hear about self-regulation at all.

The Red Bull guys were cool and all.
If you think playing with poop is cool.
(Yes, literally, the RB Airforce was having a great time toying with a pile of their own poop, and smearing it on the hood of their rental car).

OK Jimmy, brother

First, I don't know you, I haven't met you, I don't have many BASE jumps (84) or skydives (414) and I haven't been in the sport of BASE jumping for more than a little over a year.....

BUT,
I read a lot, I try to be well informed about most things, especially BASE, my eyes and brain work just fine, so does my video camera and I happened to have spent a week or two in TF over summer, SO:

Please see below for some FACTS that contradict some of your erroneous statements.


it's spelled like this: ridiculous



NO, he doesn't.

The first time I met Miles was at the visitor centre parking lot. I introduced myself and he was really friendly to me.

He was just prepping two students to do their first BASE jumps, which would incidentally also be their first parachute descents, at least this is what they told me, as did Miles.

So I got geared up, strolled out with them and some other folks on a lovely sunny day and did some BASE jumps.

I have video. I also have video of his students' 2nd jumps, front flip TARDS - now that's some kind of student progression, eh?

By the way, they were on squares and the sum of their protective equipment was this: boardshorts.....

I also happen to know PERSONALLY of at least one more student of Miles' with no skydives. I'm sure there are more.




NO, I don't have him confused with Shane, whom I met at BD, I can tell them apart.




Jimmy, buddy.
I've seen people exceed 20 seconds canopy flight at TF.
I've seen plenty of people fly into dangerous areas at TF.
And I've seen people get hurt even landing in the water.

Those, Jimmy, are the FACTS, as witnessed by me (and many others), as captured on video by me (and many others).

Please do not make statements, that are contrary to facts that can be proven, even in defense of your dear friend, ethically-challenged Miles D.

This is a valuable thread, let's try to keep the personal opinions at bay and stick to the facts and productive, intelligent correspondence.

all the best

sam

>>Miles Daisher is by far one of the most talented BASE jumpers in the sport.<<

Yikes!

Bartender, I'll have a line over on the rocks, and make that a double . . .

NickD
BASE 194

stay off my bridge

Jimmy,

Its really hard to know where to begin. Are we talking about the same Miles? Most talented? Miles cannot hold a candle to Jeb, and many many others. Frankly, I'll take the Pepsi chaallenge with Miles' jumping. What a laugh. Most capable to teach? Not by a long shot. Ethics: He has NONE. Doing what for BASE? Selling it out for a shitty living and all the glory he can get. Miles has never made his own way in jumping. He rode the tails of truly talented jumpers, used their contacts, and is willing to do any stupid pet trick to garner attention.

If he had even a tiny sack, he would be on here defending himself. But frankly, this is not an attack and therefore cannot be defended. The facts are what they are. Miles acts as he acts, and his pathetic "world famous" ad is just the icing on the cake.

I'm all for base jumpers getting paid to jump, not that there is any real money in it, nor will there ever be. BASE is the friends you jump with, and the objects you jump. Its not meant to be an attention gathering sport for those who got stuffed in lockers in high school. Miles is the poster child of how not to do base, and how to fuck the sport for a couple bucks and a flashlight worth of limelight.

BTW Jimmy, when I met Miles in 99' he was recovering from a broken leg from a base jump. Of course I only knew it becasue you coudn't be around him for 5 minutes before he told you. That is a bit more than a scratch. I wouldn't have brought it up since we nearly all break something, but since you brought up records.

Incidentally, your whole crowd seems to have these problems. Your static line on your FX at 2002 very nearly ended your career. A brilliiant move. Perhaps a little self examination is in order. And finally, I am a very happily married new daddy who owns and runs his own successful business; thanks for inquiring about my state of mind. I am just doing my part to try to preserve base. If you and yours weren't fucking it up, I wouldn't have to set you straight, and you wouldn't think me such a bad guy.

Grow up.

"and how to fuck the sport for a couple bucks and a flashlight worth of limelight."

That's a Nugget . . .

NickD
BASE 194

C'mon now jimmy! I thought you were Miles' friend!
and you go calling him the "Pepsi" of BASE jumping! Now what's Red Bull gonna think about THAT??

I've jumped with Miles. We had a kickass time. I have never had a problem with him, his publicity or his personality. As far as his ethics are concerned, I can't judge him based on internet banter.

In the meantime, why don't y'all check out some video of Miles and Shane wowing all the gawkers at BD 2004! Sheeesh! what will those crazy kids come up with next? <----click here for video!

pope

Good Grief! Miles taught me how to pack inflight in an Albatross airplae (thanks man). He is a wealth of information and has probably helped countless for than me in this sport. Also, in the often lame-ass world of skydiving and base jumping he is a welcome sight for more reasons than I can count right now. I have never seen, or heard from someone who actually saw for themselves, Miles jumping unethically. Jeez, no offense, but if you're comparing Miles to Felix you obviously don't know him and havn't jumped with him.

Ginny

youi said:

In this thread i can see that there are a few close friends defending Miles at all cost, and everybody else biting him hard. This brings an obvious observation
_______________________________________________

Who is everyone else? This forum? Does this forum really represent the base jumping world? I'm sure a lot of Miles' base jumping friends don't bother with this forum.

Hey Treejumps (mark Kissner)

KILL YOURSELF

______________________________________________

Jt, no f%ing class at all.

Hey sistah...you maybe took an xtra pain pill tonight?...I was saying Miles is a good guy--I would never compare someone I actually LIKE to FELIX!!

Where did you get that??

edited to add:
And who says "good grief" anymore anyway? Who are you, Charlie Brown now?? ;)
pope

All right,
lets talk about teaching people to jump with little to no skydiving experience.

______________________________________________

I may be crass, but I really don't care if you choose to learn to base jump with or without skydiving, that is a personal choice. Pretty much the only statistic you can count on is that eventually you will get hurt (or die) no matter how much experience you have in either sport.

Ginny

Hey sistah...you maybe took an xtra pain pill tonight?...I was saying Miles is a good guy--I would never compare someone I actually LIKE to FELIX!!

Where did you get that??

____________________________________________

Sorry, I wasn't really replying to you, just to this whole witch-hunt thread. I don't really know how to post correctly (please don't teach me).

Ginny

In the mid 1980s Richtie Stein earned BASE 74, and made a hundred BASE jumps before his first skydive. His advise, and it's gospel, is don't do that . . .

The one thing we learn is we never learn.

NickD
BASE 194

Why is everyone harshing Miles?

He is a very nice guy. Why, when I lived in Auburn, he came by for coffee every morning....

.....before sunrise....

....funny. He never drank any coffee. Oh well. I guess he just enjoyed watching me drink mine.

He always complimented me on my lovely home. Especially my long empty hall with the heavy rock on one end....

....seemed like such a nice fellow.

You guys are reading WAAAYYY too much into this.

Miles is a great guy. He is a good friend. He cares about people and their safety. He's just goofy. That ad just shows his personality. A little over the edge for some people.

I just think it's sick to hear people that don't even know him talk about the Darwin and the Gene Pool. What the hell is that all about?

Not everyone is harshing on him.
Some people stand up for him.
Some are just giving 2 cents.
Some are fully dissing him.
Sure, he's a nice guy, makes me laugh too.
His "way" has pissed a bunch of people off.
Piss people off, they come down here to vent.
It's a small community, you can't get away with much.

Gee, ya'll have alot of time on your hands around the computer, huh?

I don't have much in the way of BASE experience with 3 skydives and 5 base jumps, but I have the unique qualification (in this company) that I have actually taken the course with Miles.

I came to see Miles with the aforementioned 3 skydives, and alot of time flying paragliders... as well as plently of ground based flow sports. He was recommended by a number of friends.

Obviously I'm not familer with skydiving / BASE instruction, but I do know about learning new activites and ones involving nylon and air in particular.

I was impressed with Miles conscientious... almost anal approach to pack job, gear inspection, pre- jump checks, site / landing inspection. I felt safe with the man.

While I was in TF I watched a number of jumps by experienced jumpers with poor openings, off headings, and very nasty looking landings.

I'm not qualified to have an opinion on whether teaching non- skydivers to base jump is a good idea. There is certainly a precedent for it with climbers paraglider pilots like OJ or Santa begining BASE with no skydiving experience (at the outset). These are, of course, incredible athletes who cannot be compared to general populace.

From what I could see at the bridge, skydivers themselves lack some KEY skills for the BASE environment... tight landing skills, excellent canopy control (far inferior to what even a basic aerobatic paraglider pilot has), and athletisism (noone even walks out of the the canyon... how lame is that?)

Obivously, if you are going to jump objects with any sort of delay to them, you will need to spend time jumping out of planes to gain even a modicum of a safety margin.

But is this necessary before making your first jumps at the bridge? Maybe, maybe not.

It could equally well be argued that BASE jumpers might save themselves some death and injury by learning to climb and land paragliders in small LZ's... judging by what sort of accidents show up on the BASE fatality list.

In short, I liked Miles, I felt safe with him, I felt confident in his knowledge... and I will go back to spend more time with him.

As for the whole self promotion issue... the guy works for Red Bull, you fucking dipshits.

He gets paid to sell product. RB sells product by associating with "coolness". Public only knows about "coolness" when you tell them how cool something is.

This is how the modern marketing game works. Hate the game, not the player. In my experience very few companies endorse atheletes based solely (or in many cases, even based largely) upon their physical talents. It's their ability to raise public interest, get the brand name out there, and move product.

This results in plenty of unknown "Joe Rad's" kicking around out there, who are more talented than the well known, sponsored atheletes. That's the way it goes.

This has all seemed in rather poor taste. I'm sure that there are better ways to express your disapproval of a new business venture than calling someone a "dick".

To anyone thinking of taking the course... give the man a call.

Josh Briggs
Canmore AB Canada
5 jumps: 3 HH w/ 1.5-3sec delay all on own pack jobs. Going back...

edit to remove names by standing request of named individual. ~TA

Like calling them "you fucking dipshits" perhaps????

This really does make no sense.

it does make sense...............

it is so so true..................

I understand exactly what Nick means.

So do I, but the statement makes no logical sense as it is inherently self-contradictory ;-)

It's meant to be ironic. Why are we even discussing this?

I guess you can equate nonsensical with ironic...

Live long and prosper

yes your right this really is nonsensical, irony well im not so sure - but then again you Americans really dont understand irony much any way!

who cares about the detail of specifics on Irony / nonsensical - we all know what it means and we understand that it is true.................

who gives a shit apart from the fact we know its right...................


children stop that!!

Heard of Socrates?

and you are one ofg thouse people most people here tryes to get a safer way into BASE,dont you call people shit when you dont understand..

which might kill you one day.Sewing dresses in nylon wont save your ass...

which is why people like you shouldnt jump... thouse things can heppen to you aswell as an experienced,problem is that you might dont know what to do about it..

so people whith no skydive experience should be SL/PCA/TARD/Mcconkey BASEjumpers?? or how do you think they will learn how to freefall(stabel)?

I hope he thinks the same about you,going back will atleast give you an experienced to help you out.
How many do you belive that does the same? do you think its safe for them to go BASE jumping regular (if we say they have the same experience as you)???

Dont flame people who care about you!!!

I personaly dont have any thing on Miles.I never meet him and probaly never will.But it dont take away my oppinin that i think its STUPID in a sport as BASE to teach people whith that smal amout of experience for parachutes..

Just my oppinion...

General Warning to All:

I see a lot of short, insulting, attack posts in this thread. I'm banning JTHolmesJR, because that seems to be all he wants to contribute.

I won't ban Treejumps or Huckfinn right now, because you are both at least trying to discuss in addition to throwing insults.

However, from here on, even if your post has redeeming qualities (i.e. actual discussion of the issues), I'll ban anyone who includes anything that even comes close to a personal attack.

Calm down, folks. We can talk without screaming.

FYI:
Dean DID have skydiving experience wen he started BASE jumping, all of it geared toward BASE.

In the words of a Red Bull Marketing guy I overheard "any publicity is good publicity." I'm sure they'd love the publicity.

I'm in absolute agreement with Avery.

Miles (and Shane, and to a lesser extent several other people in their crew, like JT) is a great guy. He's very friendly, super helpful, outgoing, positive and nice. I can think of few people I'd rather hang out with.

But Miles (and the rest, as above) is also a horribly unethical and not terribly skilled BASE jumper. His antics at our legal span are way over the line, and his idea of BASE skill appears to be "how bad can I flail and live?" A "rad" jump is not the same thing as a skillful jump. If there hadn't been trees to break the fall at Bridge Day, I'm pretty sure that his daughter would never really have known her father--and that would be a true tragedy.

In short: Great people, horrible ethics.

I agree.


Some of those people _do_ know and like him. Perhaps they worry about him.

Regardless, being a super nice guy is not a free pass on ethics or safety.

This is a bit more than a new business venture. It's more like a fundamental paradigm shift in BASE instruction. That will lead to shifts in the nature, safety, and perception of the sport.

Little stone, perhaps. But very big ripples. I think we all have an interest in the sport, and a right to comment on the direction that various of us take it.

I don't even know where to begin with this. I presume those 5 were off TF?

With all of 3 skydives do you think you're prepared to effectively track away if I hucked you off of one of our 2000-footers? Do you have the body awareness to get yourself turned around and stable quickly if you flailed an exit?

We have a person takes students out to one tower. They only jump that tower. And they only jump it terminal.

In my opinion, he's not teaching these people how to BASE jump. He's teaching how to BASE jump from one particular tower. Big difference.

just curious, but if some other really nice guy with good experience in BASE, that you did not really know or even did not know at all, advertised this sort of course allowing people with zero skydives to get into BASE, what would your gut reaction be?

Same as it is here: "ouch, bad idea".

tom my reply was not directed to you - i just replied to your post.............

He. He.

Touche.

nice post,respect

even as i dont agree in all i think you made some good points.

Paragliders are going to better at dealing with an off heading opening? Huh? Where did you get that nugget? Paragliders are going to be better at avoiding objects? Huh? When was the last time you witnessed a slew of paragliders landing together in a tight area? I seem to recall seeing this all the time with skydivers at a large boogie or a large DZ (of course not all skydivers have good canopy control). Paragliders are better at landing in tight areas than a skydiver is? Wow it's nice to know that someone with only 3 skydives knows more about canopy flight than some skydivers who have dedicated jump after jump after jump towards their canopy control skills. It's also nice to know that someone with only 3 skydives assumes that skydivers have never had to land off in tight confined areas, not to mention Ground Launchers which not only land in tight areas but are definitely landing in the back-country environment. Think you're ready to be a Ground Launcher with your 3 skydives and 5 BASE jumps? I'll get video of it. But I'm guessing it's not the sort of video we'd want to show to your loved ones.

Hey I've got no problem with anyone regardless of their background wanting to get into BASE jumping (shit I'm only a newbie BASE jumper and have only begun to scratch the surface as to what this really means). But BASE jumping is BASE jumping. It is not skydiving, nor is it paragliding, climbing and/or gymnastics or any of the other sports you likened to BASE jumping. Kudos for you for wanting to be a BASE jumper with only 3 skydives. But to suggest that skydiving is only useful for tracking is showing us how much you really don't understand what it is you're getting into.

To quote Johnny Utah right now "Have fun, don't die".

I don't have email at home, so I wasn't able to respond last night.

If I had, I would have responded to Avery Thus-
Avery! Are you not the one who perfected the "publicity stunt" with an Easter Buny outfit off a well-known bridge a few years back. How can you dis another's "WAY?"

There is no "WAY" in this sport. Just individuals doing their best to fulfill their own dreams.

And to whoever said Jeb is better than Miles. Based on what I've seen of both, I'd say Jeb is better at wingsuits, but not, and I know many will disagree, at aerials or general body flight.

Miles is highly, highly skilled.

And to those who continue to attack his character, I have no response other than you really do not know what you are talking about.

I want to know one single instance, barring the tired old rail jump argument, in which Miles has in any way harmed the sport of base jumping.

And it really is uncool to try to undermin a guys business venture just because you don't like to see him on TV.

For many of you, base jumping is still a hobby, for Miles it is a profession. I doubt he would walk into your workplace and demean you in front of potential customers, business partners, etc.

And don't correct me on my spelling, or my grammar. If you get my drift that's all that's important.

-jimmy

I am compelled to comment on this thread because I am one of the other students of Miles' FJC.
After talking to him I found out he was unaware of this discussion as he doesn't care about or pay attention to the criticism that goes on here.

His first two 'students' were are both truly 'world famous' paragliders. One has the world record longest paraglider flight and is current Canadian Champ, the other is a past Canadian and US nationals winner as well as a top placer at the world cup events. Both are tremendous athletes.
I have no accolades but have over 400 paraglider flights with over 300 hours of canopy time. Most of these flights were in Golden B.C. which is one of the top paragliding sites in the world. Lots of these flights were in very sick air. My longest flight was over 6 hours. I am an instructor of paragliding and have done many tandems.

Does this qualify me to Base jump? No. Can I fly a canopy? Yes.

Base canopies are far easier to fly, far less susceptible to collapses and have way more consistent landings. The wind seems to affect them less and there is little ground effect as the approach angle is too steep. Base canopies are way easier to land in a tight spot. I landed softly in the 10' circle at BD on both of my jumps there this year. I missed the button by two feet on my no-step landings.

I'm in my 40's with a family. Have had a few different careers, the latest being a raft guide and tandem paragliding instructor.

This is not meant to glorify or justify us as Miles' students but to let you know we were not the average 'wuffos'. He did his research before accepting us into his course.
He knew also the I was going to continue jumping from my paraglider to gain experience before doing any other objects. My latest was Wednesday from 3000' above the field. Nothing to run into, lots of time to think. I now know what terminal feels like. I've been practising tracking, flips, rolls and getting stable from different positions. Simulating riser turns and emergency procedures when the canopy opens. I had packing experience with my reserve canopies in my paraglider harnesses. I spent 20 minutes in the wind tunnel and am currently in a gymnastics club program to perfect flips and twists.

The thought of sky-diving has been on my mind for a long time and I was definitely discouraged to go to base by my sky-dive/paraglider friends. They had a lot of valuable input to what I was getting into. And more about what I'm doing now. I heard about Miles from a friend who had jumped with him before.

Effects on my life....base is all I think about. Just the way I was when I started paragliding. And skiing. But I didn't go out and do really stupid things then and I won't now.

All that Josh Briggs said ('AirCanada') I have to agree with. Miles was very safety conscience and made us repeat practise procedures over and over. He covered everything very well including past accidents. Not morbidly or maliciously but in a way that we could learn from them.

Do I feel comfortable tracking away from a cliff? Not yet. Can I track? yes. Will I do a cliff soon? no.

Paraglider drops are not base jumps. But I'm getting my sky-dive experience here. Without an engine. Miles knew that when he started to teach me.
Maybe one day I'll use a plane to get up there. But I can easily be 7000' over the valley in summer in my glider. And I had fun getting there. Maybe next summer I'll be looking for some cliffs. No, I definitely WILL be looking. I've actually found some near here.

I've also met locals (2.5 hour drive away) who don't have a problem jumping with us. They are actually quite stoked about exiting from my tandem glider.

I highly recommend Miles D.'s BASE camp. He was very professional and extremely safe with us. That may be completely different from his personal jumps. But I do believe that he carefully plans all his jumps. Sometimes $hit happens. That can happen to anyone.
I know I will be very careful to avoid that $hit.
Miles knew that about me before I started.

Scott Watwood
Golden, B.C.
Canada

There are some good nuggets in here. Not being sarcastic, maybe I should take up paragliding to better learn canopy control.

My only concern is that your satisfaction in the course may be unfounded and once you have a few hundred jumps under your belt you may realize the true danger you were placed in. It seems there really are many disciplines that could hone you for base jumping, but I cannot think of doing it without learning to skydive. I personally think I could become much better by taking up gymnastics and paragliding. However, learning BASE through gymnastics and paragliding is like learning to fly a jet plane by learning to fly a canopy or a radio controlled plane.

To the DZ.com and Blinc Magazine and internet community, is it possible to have advertising for such courses banned from Skydiving Magazine until the quality of such learning techniques become acceptable or otherwise?

Would you say the same thing about society in general? Perhaps we shouldn't have any laws at all so that people can follow their "WAY"?

Laws are there for a reason (in most cases, anyway!), which is to support societal goals. Why shouldn't a community agree on self-policing goals which benefit everyone?

Do you follow the "call the locals" rule?

Comparing the base society to society in general might be a fun mental exercise, but it would go way beyond the scope of our internet discussion and would probably ellicit more arguments than we have already.

Just as we want each other to act appropriatly in regards to how we pursue the sport, we should also want each other to act appropriatly in how we interact on a personal level.

This all started becasue Miles is going to teach people to jump. Whether he's the MOST qualified jumper to do so is really not the point because
because he IS qualified to teach.

But because some people have personal issues with the logo on his canopy, or the stunts he pulls, or the "WAY" he approaches the sport in general, they are trying to undermine his credibility as a coach.

That struck me as extremely offensive. And those people should check their approach because they look no better with their way.

from the lack of official pre-requisites, Miles' FJC seems like a bad idea.

(then again, so did jumping off an object in the first place.)

a couple posts indicate he is still being selective.
if he carefully selects his students and customizes training for his clients, he will be seen as an innovator.

it seems MD is testing a new theory. if the concensus here is correct, it will quickly prove faulty.

hopefully it doesn't damage our access.

This thread is funny. I have many thoughts, but I will just say for now I agree with Mr. Aiello here.

Actually, it does make logical sense, and I can set up a simple syllogism to prove it. "Those who fail to learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them." Most fail to learn the lessons of history. Ergo, most make the same mistakes again and again and again.

It is okay (and even expected) to assume the missing words.

That being said, the fallacy you have indulged in has a name that eludes me at the moment. In layman's terms, however, if you know what someone means, it is considered not nice (not to mention self-indulgently fallacious) to pretend you don't. Point to Dexter, no point to you.

And you learnt this after just three skydives?

You slag off skydivers about canopy control, how much do YOU know about CReW and accuracy? If I gave the same attitude to paragliding peeps after the equivalent of just 3 (three) skydives I'm sure they'd tell me where to get off.

When I did my first parachute jump in 1993 I really looked up to my instructor. When I did my first bungy jump the same year I really trusted the Kiwi Extreme guys doing the rigging. I think you don't really have a balanced perspective about skydiving or BASE, but are just blindly following the guy who strapped you into the coolest rollercoaster of your life.

Oh, and I'd like to see video of your 3 second HH delay at TF.

Thanks.

In my own defense.....Yes it was borrowed gutter gear (Warp 3/Pegasus). It's put two other first timers off the same bridge in previous years. My hesi/snivel was caused from the pure and simple fact that I pitched WAAAAY to soon. I was watching the peeps ahead of me go head low so I was concentrating on nailing the exit. Which as soon as I did, I pitched, and as soon as I pitched, I thought OH SHIT that was to soon. What you don't see in the video is after it opened with a single line twist headed right for the rappellers, I managed to kick out of it and yank a rear riser to get turned back upstream in time to dodge a boulder and land in the middle of the eddy. I never even had time to unstow the brakes.
Jump number two, I gave it the needed 3 sec delay and had a beautifal jump with only a 45 degree off heading opening and a dry landing.

Excuse the highjack....
Now back to your regularly scheduled bullshit

No, you're wrong. His statement was as follows: "The one thing we learn is we never learn."

You can't learn and not learn at the same time. Therefore, the statement is inherently contradictory and makes no logical sense.

I understand exactly the sentiment of what he's saying, but the statement itself is not logical.

Spock from StarTrek would agree with me... assuming he actually existed. Which he does!

"Yes it was borrowed gutter gear (Warp 3/Pegasus). "
.......................................

HEY....VisionAir
No need to defend yourself.
That is what Bridgeday is all about.
That is what bridgeday has always been about.

(definition of Bridgeday).....FUN...FUN....and, MORE FUN.

(did I mention bridgeday was about, fun ? )
................................

Excuse the highjack....
Now back to your regularly scheduled bullshit

Hey... VisionAir
THAT"S THE BEST THING I HAVE READ IN THIS FUCKING THREAD !
.
.

Thanks for the postive vibes Ray....and ohhhh yeah I had loads of fun. BD is the shit.
Were you one of the judges at the video fest? The one with the birthday cake?

>>"The one thing we learn is we never learn."<<

By "we" I mean the collective we, as in the entire BASE community.

I, and many others, have seen this too many times. One generation learns the lessons of BASE (the hard way) and then another generation comes along that needs to learn the same lessons over again. (And I know, to you, it sounds like, oh, boy these kids today with their music and . . . )

I'm sorry, but we, the collective we, know more about being new to BASE jumping, and the euphoria and abandon that entails then you do. But we also know more about what comes later after being tempered with our own injuries, and the deaths of so many friends. I hate it when we fight over this thing we all love, but I have to sleep at night. And we couldn't do that if we didn't say anything. My hope is after a few years, I see you sometime Kidwicked, and you want to shake my hand . . . and I want to shake yours.

And as far as Avery goes, he's paid his dues in this sport, and can do whatever the hell he wants. Freedom is earned, not bestowed . . .

NickD
BASE 194
http://www.basefatalities.info/

No, I have only been there twice, in 1999 & 2000
both time I had a good time with friends.
Partied hard....I also got a few jumps in to.

[However, learning BASE through gymnastics and paragliding is like learning to fly a jet plane by learning to fly a canopy or a radio controlled plane]
---------------------------------------------------------
That is very true.

However.....since you brought it up..........with 14 years in the aviation industry, after flying several different types of airplanes and with over 100 hours flying helicopters, I felt that this experience did indeed help me learn to fly a paraglider. And now a base canopy.

-----------------------------------------------------------
[My only concern is that your satisfaction in the course may be unfounded and once you have a few hundred jumps under your belt you may realize the true danger you were placed in]

-----------------------------------------------------------

Believe me that I fully felt the danger I put MYSELF in when I stood on that plank the first time. (run soundtrack of 8 yr old girl screaming)

Hey...VisionAir ... (pretend this is NickDG telling this bit of wisdom to you )
(use his voice to.)

Did ever tell the old story that happened way back when ? You know ?
I remember way back when. There was this Thread on DZcom.

The time, Miles D. got an,....Obscene amount of public of Exposure.

And never had to say a Word. ???

(did I fail to mention that was brilliant ?)

Whether Daisher (or prancer, or comet, or vixen) is good or bad is perhaps
not the important point of this thread. Supposing someone in BASE is truly bad, what exactly did you think, in reality, hard tacks would or should happen to them? Venting on dropzone is one thing. Dealing with an offender, whoever that is, even supposing that all agreed that said person was an offender, is quite another. Many threads in the past have sidestepped this topic. Self-policing? Uh, No. There is little of this. Lets face it, the legend of Tarring and Feathering is one incident away from being a Myth. If the "really bad man" does show up, he likely will care little for his peers or their bruising commentary. But if, on the other hand, a 6' 9'' 280LB business owner does show up to comment in person, this category is handled by laws on assault, vandelism, kidnapping, and the like. The judge will be unmoved in sentencing you because you were policing the ban on rail bailing.

I do not support Miles, although I have met and jumped with him. I do not support Jimmy's approach to Base, but I know him as well, having watched him arrive on the Lodi scene long ago. And even though I realize the Golden Age of Base is over, I am both "anti commercialism" and "anti expansionism" in what some of the BASE oligarchy consider "advancing" Base. Keeping base simple and closed is "advancement" enough for me, seeing as how "making a buck" seems to drive many of BASE's ethical dilemmas as well as bringing into the sport people who have a frivolous and disrespectful and flippant opinion of Base history, Base and its uniqueness. Expanding BASE should in no way be anyone's goal. Keeping self-indulgent PR efforts, and those that come into the base scene influenced by those efforts at a minimum sounds much better.

It's called a self-referencing paradox, like "This statement is false".

Here's an old but sobering image for everyone. Mr. Aiello should make a new thread and mark it sticky because it always seems relevant, but i think he might be too politically correct for that .

Denpar,

I wondered when someone was going to bring this up.

Many shots are fired across the bows of errant jumpers (Kidwicked - I know this will make no sense to you . Jumpers don't have bows. It's a metaphor. Don't worry about it) but apparently the new generation of BASE is not self-policing. Denpar is right. This is myth from yesteryear.

I used to pride myself on being part of an elite group called BASE jumpers. These were guys / girls who you knew you shouldn't make a wager with over a dare. They would do it. Whatever it was. They were not skydivers of any kind when it came to BASE. They were people who threw themselves over the edge. The canopy ride was just a way to slow you down. What was important was that you went further than other people would and for that shining moment between commitment and control, exit and opening, all hell broke loose and you revelled in it. It was about attitude not athleticism, guts not science. No matter how fat, stupid or ugly you were you knew you could make it to the bottom but in order to get there you had to go beyond that point of no return. This is the uniqueness of our activity.

So now you pay and play. No requirements, no qualifications and essentially no exposure to the harsh realities of the sport prior to practicing it. This is where the value is lost.
I myself am more fearful with every jump I make. I'd never have walked down in my first 50. I have no issue with walking down now even if it's just because I'm no longer in the mood to jump. The initial bravado is a very dangerous emotion. It serves a new jumper well to get rid of it as soon as possible if he/she hopes to live longer (it ain't brave if you ain't scared).
I too was blissfully ignorant of some of the aspects of this sport when I began to jump even though I'd researched, studied and trained for around 3 years in preparation. My prep didn't include many skydives at all. They were mostly geared towards BASE, however. I certainly think a certain amount (of the right type) is essential. If I'd know what kind of gnarly-assed objects Skypunk was going to hurl me off I'd have prepped twice as hard and done many more drills.

I would spare any prospective jumper the pain of a jump gone wrong if I could. I've seen the poorly prepared begin to jump and it's awful to watch. They have no idea how close they come to bad accidents. Blissfully unaware of the nature of the risks they are exposed to and the fluidity with which the risk changes in response to every decision and control input made throughout the jump is no way to participate. Risk on a BASE jump is a function of time and that function inflexes at every decision point to give new considerations to the jumper.

There is more to this than falling off a cliff but you can go for years without knowing that. This is why we say skydive before BASE. Just like at school we say learn arithmetic before algebra. The activities are different. The skill set is not transferrable. Why then, is it done?

You are being educated.

The more you learn to integrate skills, adapt to change and familiarize yourself with the characteristics of certain models then more likely you are to be able to extrapolate those skills, self-develop, innovate, adapt and overcome when faced with a situation which is unfamiliar. Nobody can teach you how to fix a 180 with lineover as you fly next to a waterfall. We don't have that ability. Therefore, you must prepare yourself as well as you can so that if that ever happens you immediately react in a way which creates a downturn in the risk or exposure level.
Why does the army insist you run the obstacle course in training? Do they really have walls with ropes draped over them in Afghanistan? Same reason. The obstacles are different but your strategy must be clear to you quickly and you must react appropriately. This will keep you alive. At the risk of driving Kidwicked insane...expect the unexpected.

So back to the point.

All of us who preach ethics are at fault. We are the whining public baying for blood and we sit on our hands and bitch on the net. We have appealed to the morality of those displaying poor traits and, ignored by our those we saught to reach, we have been inactive, benign and basically, we are now their bitches.

The old school were men of action. They changed things.

The new school appear to have their pants round their ankles.

Unless we change the behavior, not only proactively by acting as role models but also reactively by active self-policing, the culture will not change and the current culture is headed for disaster. We can help. We can each do our bit.

It's time we looked after our own. For their own sakes.

So please, when it you feel the stickiness in your hair and you look up and one of us is emptying a pillow over your head, remember...

We're doing this because we love you.

i would say lifestyle

actualy i hope he would. if i were making the mistake i feel Miles are making by letting people whith 0 experience in flying canopyes,taste BASE whith out ending the education then i think its dangerus.I dont like the idea if one of thouse people dies or get injuryed becourse they think theyre BASEjumping after a few jumps off a S whith no place to hurt them self.

In DK people pretty much jump A´s all the time were you can hit the tower wires or not see the landingarea due night..It would be BAD to DK BASE to get such a person back home were your forced to teach him/her or they will huck them self off somewere and might burn the object..

I do respect Miles as a person and for his dreams,but this is just against my etics and i would say the same to Nick,Tom Dexter,even Skin(and all others) if it were them doing the same.So dont say its becours of that im jaloux that he makes a few buck...

Perhaps. Why don't you research it and get back to me:

Willard Van Orman Quine
Critical Thinking on the Web
Attacking Faulty Reasoning: A Practical Guide to Fallacy-Free Arguments

with particular attention to:

Conversational Terrorism

I also highly recommend you read Robert A. Heinlein's discussion of the illogic of language in his novella "Gulf."


On the other hand, you don't have to do any of that, really, because we all know you're just being a smart ass.

rl

Can you tell us your basis for comparison in making this judgment? Have you seen or participated in any other BASE training courses?

Thanks!

Can you tell us what your basis of comparison for this judgment was? How many other BASE jumpers have you observed or jumped with to compare their techniques? Have you observed or participated in any other BASE training programs?

Thanks!

Standing ovation!

Nice post Skin, as always.

Well everyone,
After thousands of views on this thread and many, many well-worded and thought provoking replies, I think we can all agree that it's official....

MILES DAISHER IS A WORLD FAMOUS BASE JUMPER!

Since all the while we have been discussing this, Miles has been at the local swimming pool practising new tricks off a diving board such as full twisting double-double fronts and won't be available for a reply, I'd like to thank a few people on his behalf; without whom none of this would have been possible:

Mr. Tree Jumps. Good job starting this thread. I have to admit, at first I didn't know where you were going with it. I hear that Miles would like to take you out for beer next time you're in Twin.

Mr. Tom Aiello. Once again you have facilitated an informative and timely discussion. And your intermittant little quips,-to many to mention here-BRAVO!

BASE 704, 813, and 570. Thank you

Also Nick DG, Kid Wicked, Badenhop, Whatever, leroy db, and many others thanks for taking part in this momentous occasion.

I don't know about anyone else, but I need a cigarette.

I must agree, what a great time. Sniff sniff, reminds of the good ole bitch board. I'm glad to hear that Miles is training; there is always hope for everyone. I'll take him up on that beer this April, and accept it as tuition for my base areobatics course. We just may be able to get his rotations on axis yet.

Did you save your house from that parking ticket?

Yo Tree,
I think you need some warm milk in a sippy cup!

Jimmy,

Have to agree with ya here buddy miles D is definately WORLD FAMOUS oh ya and just remember HIDGAF

PLAMER

Yo jimmyh...

You might want to look back at what I've contributed to this thread thus far, before you go "thanking" me...

Hugs and kisses,
-704

Instead of "gaining any margin of safety with more advanced jumps" you should say "survive even one of the more advanced jumps"...

.......and maybe, if your nice enough, you could share with Tom?!

Actually I would bet that most high end gymnasts would pick up base much more quickly than the average jhoe shmoe. Spatial awareness can go a long way when you need to be accurate with your movements and reactions.

 
>>Well said. But we're still skirting the true issue here and I'm sure everyone is saying to themselves:
"This is all well and good, but how does this tease and/or annoy Faber?"

and

"If I have a blown Yonkel, will I still be able to land my tarp safely?"

Nice Post !!
And I thought you were just a weirdo....

jimmy

Miles is definitely NOT the greatest contributor to the sport. There are many others ahead of him.

r.e. skydiving experience & the bridge - you CAN hit hard earth or land "off course" at the Perrine, especially if you are pca or s/l. Just like on a skydive.

However, if you have any deployment issues at the Perrine, you have less time to deal with them than on a student skydive. And you don't have the option of a reserve (usually). And if you have limited canopy experience, you are less likely to be able to or know how to deal with canopy issues. The margin for error and options for correcting errors are lower on a BASE jump. Even a bridge.

r.e. prior experience & jump numbers - they are created just like speed limits and blood alcohol levels. We all have diffferent skill & tolerance levels. BUt you need a number to start with that satisfies the statistical norm of the population. THere are individuals who need few jumps, and others who after thousands of jumps are still not ready for BASE. THe average person IS NOT ready to start BASE jumping with little / no skydive experience. This is fact. It is irrespnsible to advertise this to the general public. It is also fraught with liability & safety issues. If the excepted norm of prior experience for the BASE community is, say 150 skydives, and one of miles students with no jumps gets seriously injured/killed - he WILL get quality Bubba Butt time.

jimmy - you must be fishing for angry responses. Surely you can't be that . . . . . . .

""The internet is the perfect place for misunderstanding and skewing public perception...""

Yes - and it can be skewed both ways!!!

I don't know Miles personally. But anyone who runs courses for the general (jumping) public with students of limited/no experience IS NOT DOING THE RIGHT THING. Nice guy or not, if he is running the course as described, he is wrong. If not apologies all round.

p.s. yes, there are many negative BASE jumpers out there. But there are also MANY positive ones who don't want more people added to "The List".

p.s.s - if his add was just to solicit attention. Well done.

HI Aircanada

As you said, you are talking about outdoor adventure athletes adding another activity to an already impressive physical and mental skill set. This is where minimum jump numbers becomes less relevant. The skill set is important. I am a firm believer in cross skilling or skill transfer. I too am more likely to take a rock climber with excellent fitness / skills / ethics / personality on a BASE jump than a skydiver with 150 4way RW jumps at a big DZ.

BUT - advertising to the general public will attract individuals whose life experience is limited. As a result, there ability to handle themselves in BASE jumping is also limited - this in turn, means that they are exposed to much greater risk than people who have been paragliding and rock climbing for years.

p.s. Canada is an awesome place (was there October 2004). Loved the Rockies. Can't wait to go back.

I must say I am disturbed to see that people would actually spend the time to bash someone on the internet. I was actually pretty upset to see you guys talk smack about one of the coolest, most experienced based jumpers on the planet, Miles D.
Miles D. is my boy, and if anyone asked me, I would highly recommend learning from Miles. He rocks! And for everyone wasting time bashing others on dz.com, try getting off the keyboard and in the airplane or quit being so damn jealous. Don't hate cause you can't relate.

Can you tell me what you are basing this opinion on?

Thanks!

"ONE OF the most experienced base jumpers"

Can you tell me what you are basing this opinion on?

Tom, can I ask you a question?

Why is it that when someone bashes miles or questions his motives and integrity you have no issue, but let someone say something nice, and you're all like, "And what are you basing that opinion on?"

I think Jeff has enough experience himself to recognize experience in others.

As the "moderator" I'd say you should keep your personal opinions where they belong, up your...

Anyway Miles has 650+ base jumps, a huge number of objects. He's close friends with many other jumpers with tons of experience. The sport happens to be his profesion. And canopies have been opening above his head for close to ten years.

Can we please at least agree on something...Miles is very experienced!

-jimmy

and talented ...

Then why do you ask ? Even if you count rollovers etc as base jumps (which many people don't) it still puts him behind about a hundred people worldwide. Definitely experienced, but far from "one of the most experienced". These little details make all the difference between life and death - here on the board even more than in real life

bsbd!

Yuri.

Wow,
great point. Many of these hundred or so people who have more jumps, which make them more experienced, although it certainly isn't just numbers that I'm basing my "one of the most experienced jumpers" opinion on, have those jumps from one object be it a bridge or a low cliff in their backyard and so it really isn't just numbers that I'm talking about anyway but a whole lot of factors including the number of different objects, years in general in the sport, how current a person is, and how much of thier time they spend engaged in the activity itself, and what I find really funny anyway is how petty this argument has become and many of mile's frineds will call him very experienced because we have learned a heck of a lot from him and have seen him work very hard through the years to be where he is, not that that is anywhere really anyway and other people balk at the mere mention that he can be called very experienced and maybe that's because the sport is so new and everyone involved thinks they are just as good as the other guy and we're supposed to be part a good funloving community that eteems every one just as much as the other and to call one person better than another is just so damn arrogent but you can tell how lame this is all getting and anyone who is still actually reading this must be just as over it as me.

Jimmy,

"can you tell me what you are basing this opinion on?"

How's that warm milk treatn' you Tom?

I can't believe that this will soon hit 10,000 views, just because Miles used the term "world famous"...

Less bitching, more jumping...

The World Famous Miles D.

Can you lock this already Tom.

Point taken guys thanks for the info. CYA!

Lets throw out the experience on converted skydiving gear and the early trail and error.
Where do you get the (behind about a hundred people wordwide)?

blues

jerry


edit to add IBTL

It has been nice watching this thread and seeing people speak for others.

Also the person who should chime in is Miles..

Although I have only made 2 Jumps with Miles and Shane I cant comment on them being "THE BEST".
better than me but not the BEST

in my limited experience base jumping, but much experience evaluating others in gymnastics.
I cant say that Miles is "THE BEST". he may be training now, but from what I have seen is that he is "TALENTED" at not getting broke!!!

HE does things the rest of us DONT and gets away with it.. Hopefully he does train and become more "CLEAN" with his aerials..
He does push the limits. he does make people upsset, and does things that WE may call unethical.

Obviously WE are all keeping this thread going..

SOOOO MILES IS FAMOUS..

you could be too.. get off your ass and jump..

Just My 2c not good not bad..

Thats what I'm sayin... 300 ft B tonight, once again, I feel better. The workers on the 2nd floor said they didn't mind us parachuting, so its all good.

Sounds pretty hooked up. I did both of mine right in a row this last Monday morning . Boy was that a riot, I was shaking, have'nt come down shaking since the Gorge.
Soft landings
Adam

>>Aerials are sooooo 1990'<<

That's a nugget . . .

NickD
BASE 194

Tried to stay out, but this was great.

Flat and stable is where it's at...

MILES IS THE BEST!!!

sorry, couldn't let this one die yet.



BUY RADIX NOW!!

Yea, this one needs to hit 10,000 views...

Priceless...

Just for fun I went to Yahoo and did a search on 'world famous "Miles Daisher"' and came up with only one match http://www.activetraveldirectory.com/...99/9904terminal.html

It sure would suck to be famous for this


570

I've done some rope jumping with Dan-O.

I wouldn't mind doing some of those jumps. They looked very intense

570

 

It sure would suck to be famous for this



Actually, Dan is famous for many, many things, this is around the bottom of the list.
The shit you just dredged up is almost as bad as anything I've seen on this board. I am not impying you did it on purpose, as you obviously know nothing about some of the reasons this just sucks. Not just for Dan. Seriously 570, it would be very cool of you to just remove the post. Thanks.

 
>>It sure would suck to be famous for this<<

Dan is a catalyst and spark for many people, and never mind the technical stuff, sometimes, and thankfully so, someone comes along and says "Hey, wake up you guys." And if you can realize that to disparage the death of someone you aren't close to, is like laughing at your own brother's funeral, I'll leave it here.

Each of us effect so many others (Like in, It' s a Wonderful Life).

Merry Christmas, Everyone . . .

NickD
BASE 194

I wasn't referring to Dan, I was referring to Miles.
I did the search on Miles since he was claiming world fame. To my surprise this was the only thing that came up.
I guess what I was trying to say was that it would be unfortunate to claim 'world fame' yet only be famous for being the last person to see an amazing man alive.
Sorry if you misunderstood

570

I think I understood the post as it was intended. I didn't take it as disparaging, I took it as highly ironic and very sad. It also made me think of Miles in a different light.

How harsh must it have been to be in Miles' position that night? I don't know if that deserves to be called famous but it sure deserves something.

I sure feel for Miles after reading that account.

I don't think that most people are too worked up about Miles using the self-appelation of "famous." It's totally in keeping with his (sort of tongue in cheek, very casual) personality. He's a very nice person, and definitely doesn't take himself too seriously.

The underlying issues have nothing to do with sponsorship or self promotion. I wish him all the best in those regards.

My concern is the flaunting of the law at precious legal objects, and the teaching of students with no skydiving experience.

Two very separate issues. One makes me laugh. One makes me cry.

Hmmm, it doesn't sound like Miles had any part in the tragedy.

And I would have thought it an honor if someone like Dan Osmon considered me a close friend, and someone who he trusted and wanted to have around when he tried pushing the limits like he often did.

You know Jason, Mr. BASE570, you can really say some stupid things sometimes. Very insensitive on your part. You basically dredge that up so you could add your torch to the flame fest. Do you even know Miles or are you just a feeble minded poser casting flames at someone you dont even know for something you dont even know about?

Where do you get off thinking that? The article mentions Dan Osman being famous (which he was) not Miles. Miles does have some fame in the world of skydiving, swooping, and BASE, but that is because of his own accomplishments.

I would put it a little different than Nick.
VERY LAME bringing up Dan-Os last jump to disparage Miles.


edit to add: I went and got a new B last weekend...how about you.
Go jump with Leroy.

I have no beef with either of you

I find this borderline a personal attack...

you are both welcome to come jump with me.

Day or night,

night, 99% are at night,

feel free not to rile me up, please and thanks...


edit to add: So are we still up for that jump or what?

570,

The irony of irony is that it is rarely understood to be ironic, particularly when the reader has a vested interest of one sort or another in the object of the ironic statement or situation.

<passes over a ripe tomato> You may now return to your regularly scheduled food fight.

rl

I'm just stoked that this is going to make it to 10,000 hits after all!!!

YEA!!!

so by trying to rile me up you think that....? na never mind

so how about that jump... or are you skerd to admit you wana jump with me?

Just watch ... Tom's going to lock this thread at 9999

has anythread made it to 10k.... to lazy to look right now

But of course. I'm not sure why since it has nothing to do with BASE.

Nope, not on the BASE board. The link goes to "Tit-ee bar(NSFW)", in the bonfire. Pretty funny that this post is as popular to BASE jumpers as tits are to skydivers. And the beauty is that the "World Famous Miles D" didn't even have to post.

BTW, I've heard from reliable sources that RADIX is one of the most incredible videos to date. For $20 at that!

Leroy, I have a 180' tower here that I want to open up, when you come out, we'll jump it together...

... yea... um... you are real funny man, don't'cha know...

maybe I will S/L it when I grow up like you

ADDED: agree on the radix video. see other post

Just watch ... Tom's going to lock this thread at 9999
Hey, it's friday night. Tom's waaaaaay too drunk to be Mr. Moderator Man.

So I guess it's kind of a free fire zone for the next 12 hours or so, until I wake up sober Saturday morning...

You might be right about saying stupid shit sometimes but that's what happens when you get fucked up and get on a computer. Hell, it's beats drunk dialing. But I'm sure, mr. winklekotter, you never make mistakes like this do you?
I was only doing a little research trying to see if Miles was as famous as he says he is. Anyone else who looked up 'world famous miles daisher' would have found the same thing.
The article doesn't put Miles (or Dan) in a bad light and I don't think it's anything he needs to try to hide or be ashamed about. Nor do I believe it should bring him any mental anguish. It sounds like an epic time in his life and he shouldn't look back on it and feel pain. I guess I see death differently than most, I see it as merely a doorway to much greater things, not as the END ALL that most see. There is a time for mourning but after that you should celebrate that persons life rather than get angry or upset everytime people talk or read about it. Sorry if we think differently on this. Get over it, it's only physical death!

B-Team, glad I could help out the cause
570

Oh, and who hasn't met Miles, he IS world famous you know!

Hey Fukers, bummed I missed all the fun here. I'll try and help get us to 10,000 though.
You guys are retarded. Miles has this thing called a sense of humor. "World Famous"
You idiots took him seriously! Man, he sure did shove some sand up yer vaginas. Hey, I know a great way to easily get us to 10,000! I was missing out on all the attention anyway. What about me?
Here's more sand to whet your vaginas:
1. Death camp was my idea, gonna keep doing it.
2. Love those top rail bails!
3. Waterski jumps, two thumbs up!
4. Dayblazing, awesome! (Especially your objects)
5. I invented the McConkey so I'm world famouser than any of you ass wipes.
6. I'm also sponsored by Red Bull.
7. Tried to kill Miles at Bridge Day.
8. Tom A. yer an asshole.
Can't think of any more but I'm sure you guys can. Remember, 10,000!
Shane McConkey
"The world's greatest base jumper"

10'000 is done, and now thanks to your post this thread can be locked as soon as Tom wakes up...

Hi Shane nice seeing your tipping out of your closset.
You only dare as it aint you people are speaking about?no worrys i have a shoulder you can cry by

aslong only your close freinds and you dies i dont give a fuck...

no worryes,if you think that extra 1m will save your arse going in.. just dont slip onto your nuts..

yeah using so much time rigging it up will make you a few jumps off a day,psst just say you dont dare its ok to back off

your welcome if you dare whith out video

Beeing a wuss not jumping whith the canopy in the container is not somthing to be proud off...

Are you allowed to walk arround whith out metal in your nose??

You aint good at it,he is still here and famus,you want a tip??

he sure is,lucky his a clean one

Could you buy me a beer one day?

Welcome to the board Shane

Dayam!

Go Faber.

I almost fell for the Huckstable post but as everyone knows the McConkey was invented by that little homo who used to snowboard so how could it be you also? Or are you that paraglider pilot who really did it first?

I'd have called it a Bisley since his wasn't a one shot deal.

hahahahahahahahahahaahahaahaahhahahahhahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahhahahhhahahhahahhaahhahhahahahahahhahahhahahahahha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I love it!

Although, I still think Miles D is more WORLD FAMOUSER' than you.........
Thanks for the video Chuck!

" better warm up the milk"

See, there you go again.
We dont. Its just that you were bringing it up to diss miles. How would you feel if someone brought up the death of a loved one of yours for the purpose of dissing you?

By the way, its spelt winkelkotter not winklekotter. Happens all the time...no worries dude.

edit to remove attachment, see explanation below ~TA

Johnny,

I think we're all pretty tired of having this re-hashed. I won't allow other threads in the forum to degenerate into yet another repeat of the Johnny v. Avery saga.

You've had your say, and made your points. So has Avery. Can you guys please just give it a rest?

I shook hands with Shane McQuestionable today.
He was being totally rad.

I retract all I said about Miles, except for the glory hounding stuff. Its obvious to me now that Shane is the cause of all of BASE jumping's problems. These kids (Shane, JT, et al) just don't respect anything. But hey, they will grow up and quit playing with Barbie dolls soon, and then the sport will be ok.

Until then, thanks for the rad videos Jimmy H. Totally tubular. (Still can't get the 80's music out of my head).

Happy Christmahanakwanzaaka!

A bit disappointed in your efforts people but I'll let it slide this time since we're so far gone with this thread at this point. Here are your grades anyway:
faber - Excellent use of the quotes and you put the most thought into your response. I almost felt some anger but not quiet. - B

Skinflicka - You completely fell for the "I invented the McConkey" set up totally blowing any chance you might have had at comedy or a come back. - F

hucklberry - Lovin' the milk comments for all these crybabies! - A

badenhop - Seeing me in person yesterday impaired your ability to write a decent whining here on Dork Zone. - I (Incomplete, do over)

Tree jumps - Excellent redirecting of your vagina. The "don't respect anything.....Barbie Dolls" stuff seemed heart felt. Fascinating comments to Jimmy. Are you guys buddies now? - A-

if you had felt anger your then a person whith loads of anger

When we meet,punch me in my fat belly and lets move on

ps. as you mention me first does that mean you like me most or less???(we dont use the letter system here)

the letter system is from A (best) to F (worse) withoud E (because E is dangerous)

Or maybe he meant that a B should be your next object

Hi Shane,

I'm sorry, did you have digs on Jimmy? Don't worry, I'm on the East coast.

Nice reply. I must admit that your writing level seems to have improved. Your normal 6th grade writing level is a nice put on, though. Must go over real well with your fan base. Still, a solid post with all the trimings. Merry Xmas!

You really think he would kill me??
highest B arround is 143ft and by "neuclear" winds arround here i would atleast be hurt

you guys got snow yet?? F#¤king cold arround here but no snow yet..

yep, snowed this night, and the damn trucks came to salt the streets and take the snow off the streets at 3 AM

Hey, we're supposed to be a snow country...

And at 9 in the morning there wasn't any snow left. I hate the "anti-snow" truck

Snow? oh yeah! Good we have all this fabulous post to read, if not the short days would be a got da.. boring up here!

Happy new year everyone!

Can I be a total ass and just say that here in good ol' Southern California it's about 80 degrees F (~27C) right now.

It would be even better if the north winds changed to south but we can't have everything.

now that is a picture I like!

typical eastcoaster!..........
my pussy hurts........... "i retract all i said about "WORLD FAMOUS" Miles D"

By the way.......... they're HUCK dolls!
get with the program you VAGINA!
you only wish you had one!
You could ask the "WORLD'S RADDEST BASE JUMPER" for one........... but I'm not to sure if he would give one to such a large VAGINA!

Ok, I think this has been going on long enough.