Basejumper.com - archive

Had a most outstanding jump day with Spence,Dexter, Katie & sandy on G.C.
Good jumps all day. Got some video of Spence doing a ...Sick-Low
Day blazing, Bridge Rail Jump. 34 meter ? 102 ft. TARD over wet sand.

After seeing that I now find it hard to believe that anybody is going to do
anything below, sub-100 ft./ sub-33 meters, "Over Hard Ground" with today's
Vented-BASE Canopy tecknowledgy. A big-big chance you will be carried
to your the car by your ground crew.
The sound that Spence's feet made when, slapping to the Wet/sand and
doing a, Not that hard of a" PLF.... Was "Very Loud".

+ 100 ft. might be the safety barrier for the, experienced & Not so sane or Un-trained idiot.

What good jumps that morning! I enjoy jumping there very much. Just a really nice object with beautiful surroundings and good company.

That afternoon...

I've been witness to some amazing things. All I can say about that jump was... holy crap.

I was standing there at the bottom watching you guys talking. I could hear your voices, I couldn't make out what you were saying, but I could hear you talking. I thought to myself, "Damn, they're so close." That thing lasers at precisely 34 yards, not meters. That's 102 feet. 102 feet!

The more I looked at that bridge, the more I thought that maybe the jump wasn't such a good idea.

If I didn't know Spence and his abilities, I might have elected to go home and not be a part of that jump. Because I do know that he's highly experienced in these jumps I chose to stay and help out. If anybody could pull off what he was attempting, surely it's Spence.

What followed was the most impressive display of low-altitude parachute deployment I've ever seen. I can tell you what, If I've ever willed a parachute to inflate it was yesterday.

I'm also pretty sure Ray had something confidence inspiring to say just before Spence exited. hehe...

Spence, respect dude. I want to know where you find pants to fit over your giant balls.

"After seeing that I now find it hard to believe that anybody is going to do
anything below, sub-100 ft./ sub-33 meters, "Over Hard Ground" with today's
Vented-BASE Canopy tecknowledgy. A big-big chance you will be carried
to your the car by your ground crew."

Years ago, there was an article in Paramag (french skydive magazine) of a Frenchman doing several bag launched jumps of a 29 meters bridge over a grassy field. (no soft sand).
Looked OK to me from the pictures taken from above. No flare, toggles set in half brakes, he just ran on landing. This was better than releasing the brakes (creating forward surging speed).

Good 2 know history...

Ronald Overdijk
www.liveskyproductions.nl

Wow....I'd like to get a hold of that MAGIC parachute
________________________________________________

BTW Chad, the holdup at exit was Ray preaching verses from the BASE Ethics Book that someone kindly sent him recently.

Since I was top railing in the afternoon with cars going by, he did everything he could to stop me.

But the words "DO IT" scrawled in the sand below were too much to resist!

It took an elbow to the solar plexes before he finally let me go

Thanks guys for a great day.

Great work

 
Ronald :
It's hard to believe that story
We are talking about a un-opened parachute and lines being thrown
up in the air, as you jump off, Right ????????????

You say a Frenchman Years Ago.....
At 29 meters. D-Bagging, A PACKED Ram-Air PARACHUTE.
He had Full line stretch, Bottom Skin Inflation, ..Also...
He had Full pressurization and forward speed, to Run a landing out ???
When today's Vented, technology canopy could not do it ???

My fucking head is spinning around and my tongue is hanging out.
That is one Magic Parachute. .....Or that Frenchy is, Mary Poppins in disguise.


Have Video MPEG and will compress it a little and get this puppy out there soon.

I don't buy it either. You might survive that, but you'd certainly be injured pretty badly.

I know that with any sort of headwind you will come straight down because the canopy isn't flying yet. It has full bottom skin inflation but the wing is still trying to pressurize. I know that on the TARD Spence did, the parachute was never flying. It decelerated him enough to to a vertical PLF, that is, he came pretty much straight down.

He presented the already staged canopy in front of him and held the lines just long enough to get some air trapped in the canopy. He then released the lines and hit linestretch while the canopy was already inflating.

If he was to do the same jump with a D-bag, he would hit linestretch with the parachute tightly folded up and no air inside. It would take considerably more vertical drop and speed to pressurize the wing enough to have the forward speed for the running landing you describe.

I estimate that point to be around twenty feet below impact.

Try running out a partially pressurized canopy with the toggles stowed and with no flare. Actually, let me rephrase that. Don't try running out a partially pressurized canopy with the toggles stowed and with no flare.

I think you'll be quite injured.


Edit: Oops, accidentally replied to Ray.

I think that Ronald would be talking about a bagged jump where the canopy is stowed in a D-Bag which is held by someone at the top. The canopy is pulled to line stretch straight away and the canopy inflates fairly quickly.

There's a sequence of it being done from an 80ft ladder over water on Johnny Utah's site. By the look of it there's enough time for a riser flare.

http://www.johnnyutah.com/9lives.html

That was a PCA into waist deep water. That gives some degree of safety factor if something doesn't go right.

Doing the same jump over solid earth is quite another story.

I've talked with Johnny about that jump and I've seen the video. I don't think there was time for any type of flare. Johnny, please correct me if I'm wrong.


Edit: Damn typos.

Give me some time. I will call Paramag magazine and ask for a copy of the article.

Ronald Overdijk
www.liveskyproductions.nl

>You say a Frenchman Years Ago..... At 29 meters.
> ...
> When today's Vented, technology canopy could not do it ???
Ray, today's vented canopy can do it, and tyey can do it very well indeed.
There is this fantastic (and very humble) European BASE jumper that jumped in DB a cliff in Europe that is 26.80 m high. Yes, he landed on hard wet sand (it is a overhanging cliff by the sea) but the landing, even if he stumbled, was NOT dramatic, with suitable protections, it could have been done also on a hard surface. 3 seconds of flight, a good flare with risers and here he is.
This jumper is as good as modest. On the web is also possible to find the video, I cannot find it presently (I had it on my HD, but I had to delete it for space reasons).

I remember seeing that video, sort of an arched rock formation on a beach... I'll look at home and see if I can find it.

Ganja

I have the video on my hard drive. It is 1.2MB. You need a bigger hard drive. :)

I do not know where I got it from. I tried to upload it to skydivingmovies.com but can't with the browser I have here at work. If someone wants to post it, PM me and I can email it to you.

Try http://www.skydivingmovies.com/fileupload. Doesn't require JAVA. Just let me know when it's done uploading and send me all the pertinant info to display. (or just email me the file/info).

Video of the first jump mentioned in this thread: http://www.skydivingmovies.com/...ion=file&id=1866

Dave

Hey ...finaly got something put together on Spence's. Day blazing,
Rail Bailing, TARD.
Got it compressed down to ,"850 kb 22 seconds long", so its a easy
fast down load. Even if your Sucking Off the phone-Line it will only
take about 5 Min.
Spence say's " Hey , sub-100's, No Sweet."

http://www.skydivingmovies.com/ver2/pafiledb.php?action=file&id=1866

I would still like to see some Frenchman do better.

Thanks, Dave. I uploaded the file here. Please forgive the double extension. :) It was originally called base.wmv but I renamed it to 26.8m.wmv.wmv. Not sure if it is on your site anywhere else with a different name...

Hello Ray

I'm confused about this thread and was hoping you'd clarify for me.

The TARD jump of Spence's (which i watched) is by any standard a sickningly low BASE jump. Is this viewed in general as a freefall jump or does it fall into that grey area like the rollover (mcconkey) or the Utah drop (whatever it's called).

The reason i ask is that i would imagine a D-bag or even a bridle removed (inside container static line) would provide a flying canopy faster or am i totally wrong here. That's a genuine question, not one of those smart assed "correct me if i'm wrong though i know i'm not" type questions.

Would Spence (or has spence) DB'd, McConkey'd , static lined or PCA'd that height or would he consider that a definite no no jump.

IS the TARD method viewed by you guys as the fastest effective way of getting a canopy above your head?

Huge respect to Spence. Spence i love your work and owe you a drink or two for looking after me in TF after my FJC a few years ago. Fond memories of hotrocks.

ian #843

here's another one: http://www.skydivingmovies.com/...ion=file&id=1609

i know, it's over water, but i think it quallifies anyway...
seems to be to low to do over hard ground though.

It depends on the design and rigging of the deployment bag. I once tried to build a really big, flat d-bag, and hold air channels open with separators. I didn't get very far, but I can see how such a setup would give you inflation as fast or faster than a TARD, and with better control of the opening.

Thanks, got it: http://www.skydivingmovies.com/...ion=file&id=1868.

Lemme know if I left off any info.

Dave

Sorry to hijack the thread, but i just uploaded a French TV rip i found on emule.

It's a tower strike in KL.

That's interesting. Why did you stop work on that?

http://www.skydivingmovies.com/...ion=file&id=1870

I can't download it right now so let me know if my description needs revising or if you have any info to add.

Dave

That's fine Dave,
It's about 8 minutes 30 seconds & as i said it's a French TV rip.

I think it definately does... The water is only knee deep.

Here it is:

http://www.para-net.org/...n155/article1GB.html

Are you sure that's a PCA? If you look at the pictures you can see lines running from the jumper to the basket and the pilot chute hanging from there also so unless it's some kind of m.c. escher photo, that puts the canopy at the basket too . I guess johnny utah is the man with all the answers.

It wasn't really a PCA. More like a shrivel flap assist.

I'm surprised this hasn't been linked too yet. Here's the ladder truck post =--> Ladder Truck

Jonny says in that post (in many more words than I use here) that the anchor point (either a stronger break-cord or stronger hand-grip) on a PCA results in the canopy's bottom skin spreading further after reaching line-stretch resulting in more canopy spread at the point of breakaway and hence - faster inflation. The stronger grip holds the canopy for just that little bit longer allowing the spread to develop further before breakaway.

Way long ago we were using d-bags (with anchored saftey bridle) and for the low shit we attached a break-cord inside the d-bag from the canopy attachment point to the bag itself. With this break-cord in place the top of the canopy was held up with the bag-holder's hands until the jumper reached line stretch.

The results we got was pretty much full inflation of the canopy after about 30'-40' after it left the bag. When I despatched my mates I was always seeing inflated top-skin at about 30' down - really impressive. The canopy would be held high in my outstretched hands right through the deploymnt sequence.

NOTE that this is the distance the canopy travels from the mouth of the d-bag and not the jumper's fall which incorporates the line length and jumper's height. In other words, inflation about 30' after line stretch.

This was on non-BASE specific gear with shallow brake settings and no tailgate. The results were pretty consistent - sometimes even better so I expect today's gear to perform at least the same.

g.

Watching the jump of the TARd, the canopy may have some air in as he jumps off, but it doesn't inflate until he hits line stretch. The canopy is actually falling with him a little ways. Had someone been holding a d-bag above him, i would think he would have gotten almost the same opening distance if not less. He would hit line stretch sooner, there by starting the opening a hair quicker. I've done about a dozen d-bags from around a 130ft and have held the bag on many others. From the bagmans view, the canopy seems to open about 20ft away. If you simply toss a canopy off something will it inflate and fly? I don't think so, it has to have the weight on the lines to open. So the faster you can transfer that weight to the canopy the faster it will open. so it seems (to me anyway) that having the canopy stay at the exit, instead of falling with you, would give a faster opening. so at this particular location, has anyone tried to d-bag it? I don't think you would have a prob. landing with brakes stowed and a good plf

It was sick jump though very nice

Sabre:
Ya..Spence has done quit a lot of low, Tards, McConkey, PCA's, Low Free-Falls, etc.
He has a pretty good working Knowledge of, "Where to Draw the Line." I have seen him do some scary shit but he mentally works out the details in advance, before stepping off.
He walk's the Walk much better than Me. Personally I will not, PCA or D-bag nothing lower than 150 ft.
You have to draw your own lines and follow your own game plan in BASE.
...................................................................
Maybe My brain is weird, but I think Tard Qualifies More for a, BASE jump
A, McConkey/roll-over. does not.

Doing a TARD, You are doing a pack-job held in your hands.
There is order to it. Canopy is flaked, there are settings done to it. Held in hand
The Lines are gathered in order. Held in the other hand.

**(this defines it as a BASE jump):
You Launch and deploy canopy and Lines in a specific order,... In Free-Fall.
**Free-Fall**-- The jumper can vary his delay of Free-fall./ by his deployment.

It is attached to a Single Parachute, Harness Container system.
just not packed in it. Its packed and held & deployed in both Hands.

It was for a very specific jump which had very unusual (to say the least) parameters. I ended up doing it with the canopy pre-spread, and attached with break cord, but totally unbagged.

edit to add: In my opinion, the method I used doesn't really qualify as a BASE jump, strictly speaking.

Wow. We need to jump together more often.

TARDS open faster than d-bagging when done under optimal conditions.

I posted some equipment details over at BLINC
http://blincmagazine.com/...owthread.php?t=22438

The advantage of TARDS over other deployment methods aren't so apparent in this jump.

Big issue here was the variable 2-5 mph headwind (You can see the nose of the canopy rippling after landing)

To maintain integrity of the 'pack' at launch in these conditions I also held onto the tailpocket with my thumb and had a portion of the tail protecting the rest of the pack from the wind...this interfered slightly with the deployment.

I also could have held onto the pack a fraction of a second longer during freefall to allow better pressurisation.

Generally you have concurrent canopy inflation with line deployment.

Looking at the video, the canopy deployment looks like I'm using a tailgate (which i'm not).

This wasn't an optimal TARD, but it worked well for those conditions.

We'll get some video on a no wind day and I'll put my money where my mouth is

For those who don't know BASE 587, I consider him to be one of the most experienced jumpers in the world for ultra-low deployments. He has dozens of jumps in the sub-150ft and at least a another dozen jumps in the 111 to 120ft range.

I find this thread interesting and useful for taking at look at what deploys faster: a TARD or a Direct Bag. Of course, it will probably never matter to me as I'm way to soft to jump anything sub 150...

Bryan

Bryan...
You should have seen Spence, some months ago when he found this shitty little
cell Tower down the street from his house with a asphalt parking lot for a landing
area. The thing was only like 115/120 ft. tall. He was happy as a pig in shit.

He drug me over there to show it to me and asked me to go with him the next time
he jumped it. I thought he was making a joke.

Ha ha ha. That sounds just like Spence!

I shook my head once when Spence said to me "It's possible for me to release toggles and flare for landing down to 130ft. Anything below that and I have to use risers for landing". Spence really is that dialed in on the low stuff.

I still plan on coming out this winter to jump with you guys -- I'll be in touch soon.

Bryan

DISCLAIMER: For those unexperienced and uninitiated in the ultra-low realm, jumping objects this low often requires many specialized techiniques and there is often zero-margin for error. Don't take the above numbers in this thread as factual (like it's ok to release your brakes from a 130ft jump). Your mileage can and will vary.

OK, I got the article from Paramag. No clue about when. At least after 1999 because the article refers to jumps in that year. but here it is:

Julien Caquineau, bridge 36 meters (sorry, not 29). He used direct bag. I have seen the pictures and yes, landing was OK. Again, like I said above, he did not release the brakes as this generated too much forward speed he could not brake. He just ran. He also had done test jumps with a dummy.

For the interested, the article is below in french:

Ronald Overdijk
www.liveskyproductions.nl

Séquence folie
36 mètres : plus bas, tu meurs…
Comme les sites de BASE jump sont rares dans sa région, Julien Caquineau a voulu essayer ce viaduc situé près de chez lui, en Vendée. Il a ainsi réussi un saut à 36 mètres. Ça ne dure pas très longtemps, c'est très bref, mais ça marche ! Déroulement en images et en quelques mots...
Même si l’action peut être considérée comme complètement dingue, Julien ne s’est pas jeté dans le vide n'importe comment. Il a d'abord effectué des lancers de mannequin afin d'observer les séquences d'ouvertures de différentes voiles de BASE jump. Selon lui, toutes ne sont d'ailleurs pas compatibles avec cette faible hauteur... Le mannequin, du type utilisé par les maîtres nageurs en piscine, était lesté pour restituer les conditions exactes du saut. La méthode utilisée est le “direct-bag”, c’est-à-dire qu’un complice tient le P.O.D. en mains au moment du départ, une sorte de saut en automatique amélioré. Ce n’est qu’après avoir trouvé la bonne configuration, que Julien a suté ! Et voilà le résultat.
Quelques semaines plus tard, dans les mêmes conditions, Julien profitait d’un échafaudage de 60 mètres installé sur le clocher d’une église en réparation…
Et le 6 mars dernier, il faisait partie d’un groupe de 4 personnes à sauter de la Tour Effeil. Julien est peut-être le premier à y avoir sauté 2 fois, la première étant de nuit le 23 décembre 1999 (voir ParaMag n 141).
Petite anecdote : avant de sauter de la Tour Effeil, les 4 compères avaient sauté d’une tour de la Défense et ils ont été arrêtés par la police. Leur saut de la Défense a été annoncé aux infos (Europe 1, Libération…), mais celui de la tour Effeil est passé complètement inaperçu.

Photos Doriant Pichaud

>For the interested...
Thanks a pants full.
Anyone care to translate?
~J

hi folks, I was the guy who held the D-bag at this jump for my buddy, mahle from fehrbellin, germany. it is not really a cliff, more a cave, washed out from the sea. it was a height of 26.8 meters, we measured it out before he jumped.
the video was made by achmed sharma, a german freeflyer, and is a part of his movie "fantasy flyer". the episode is named "a day at the seaside".
mahle also did an indoor jump (D-bag, solid ground in a former factory) with an exit height 23 meters. at this jump he was not able to flare with toggles (of course not) or risers, he just did a plf, without injuries at all. this jump was made afak with a V-tec FOX.
see the picture from that cave jump on www.base-jump.de, pictures (bilder).


bye folks