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I just wanted to tell all my BASE brothers and sisters what a great time Ground Launching can be (if respected just as BASE needs to be). I spent the last four days at Jim Slaton's Ground Launching Camp in CA and wow!!! What fun!!! Even though I've yet to do a wingsuit BASE jump, I would like to compare the two as somewhat similar. We launched ourselves off of mountain ridges 1000 feet AGL high and flew over other ridges on our way towards landing in definitely a back country environment. Can you picture the potential here once the proper experience is gain? Launching yourself off of a mountain and flying down it to the base.

Next up ... Turkey Boogie in Moab!!! Whos' coming?

As in paragliding ? Or attempting to, with skydiving/base canopies ?

bsbd!

Yuri.

Awesome!

At this rate of regression we'll be walking to work bare foot in no time at all.

This comes as quite a coincidence on the weekend I invented a sport where a bunch of genetic freaks run around a place which I called a "Kort", trying to throw a watermelon into a "Bagsket". It doesn't bounce real well but hey what the hell? I'll forever be know as the guy who invented "Bagsket Watermelon".

Or is that another $hit idea?

Glad you had fun man. I'm just cranky cos i"m into my 3rd nuclear coffee.

Enough of this, I'm going to tie a couple of 2x4s to my feet and go "Skreeing".

it's not regression...

just remember how paragliders started... Good old DRAKKAR'S with Dbag and slider removed...

There is more to the story......some ground launching is attempting to be (or has recently been) done in National Parks. Hmmm....parachuting in National Parks. Does that sound familiar?

First off the guy who trained me this last weekend (Jim Slaton) was adamant about us finding sites on BLM land (which we were jumping). So he is sensitive to the issue of jumping illegal sites as the rest of us are. Now if a bunch of skydivers (without the knowledge of BASE ethics) start running around ground launching in National Parks and getting caught, well we'll need to inform them of thinking about building some of their own ethics. But to tell you the truth I don't think that there are that many ground launchers around (the sport is still in it's infancy).

As to what we were doing, yes there are some similarities with paragliding (we are launching ourselves into the sky with a canopy over our heads), but we are not paragliders. You'll be able to use many skydiving canopies, but specialized canopies (different fabric, different noses and bracing) are in the works and their performance in this environment over a normal canopy are well worth the extra cost. I don't believe launching BASE canopies will give us the performance needed what with BASE canopies being huge and having a different design not condusive to gliding great distances. But who knows. Now that I have some knowledge about the sport, I will try kiting and launching my BASE canopy off of a Level I slope one day and see what happens.

I just started this thread because of the similarities between back-country Ground Launching and back-country BASE jumping (including wingsuit BASE jumps).

Hey Canuck,
What I'm referring to is a GOOD thing. I heard Jim is talking to some NP's about flying there. Ground launching is complimentary to BASE, and vice versa. Sooner or later, we'll be flying or jumping in NP's. Lot's of stuff is going on in our fight to parachute in NP's.

Where can we see video of it!?

On a serious note:

Could you please explain what is the difference between ground launching and paragliding? What is an objective of ground launching once you are airborne? And if you need a specialized canopy why not to use a paraglider ?

bsbd!

Yuri.

Ground Launching

My Dagger has a wonderful glide ratio... hehe, what a shameless plug. So I am glad everything went well for you Steve, I have been putting in more time downtown and it paid off (in a lower way). Give me a call soon, I will let you know . Also, I am leaving for the playground on Wednesday and leaving on Monday of next week.
Cya

I'm not sure I get the idea behind this either. However, it's possible there are some future benefits we don't see at this point. I think it was 1979 or 1980 when we first heard of some Swiss folks (I think) ground launching their skydiving canopies. After Parachutist Magazine ran an article about it many American skydivers found themselves bruised and battered after running and tumbling (mostly tumbling) down hills while vainly trying to launch their low aspect ratio canopies. Ten seconds in the air was a great success back then and we felt like the Wright Brothers.

Years later I made a few flights on real paragliding gear and fell in love with the feeling of lift and the amount of ground that can be covered. (Jump in the park, land outside the park?)

I thought right then and there we needed BASE canopies that initially open like seven cells, but then further deploy into more of a paraglider configuration. I guess the point I'm going for is, any future development in canopies, no matter what sport they comes from, may benefit us all.

NickD
BASE 194

Hi Yuri, Hi ALL!

Todd gave me the following explanation of the difference between ground launching and paragliding, as explained to him by Jim Slaton:

In paragliding you're normally in a seated harness, and are attemping to get lift and stay aloft as long as possible.

In ground launching you're not in a seated harness, and you're attempting to glide down the slope as long as possible, as seen in "blade running" events, rather than trying to get lift and stay up there forever.

Ground launching sounds really fun! There's this great rock in the mountains east of me that is just shy of being BASE jumpable, but could definitely be a location for ground launching. The only thing that makes me nervous is how many TREES there are on mountain slopes. You know, me and trees don't get along very well when a parachute is involved...

See y'all in Moab! Remember, bring food for the feast!

K

I'm curious how you actually launch something with a wing loading between 1.2-1.5. To ground launch you have to get the wing flying first. If you have a wing loaded at 1.5 I'm sure the stall speed of the thing is in the 20's (mph that is). How do you get it flying? Do you just need a good upslope breeze to get the right airspeed but have a slow enough ground speed to run that fast?
I'd love to see some video of a launch.

Russel,

Are you telling me you can't keep that wheelchair going straight downhill unitl achieving 20 MPH?


NickD
BASE 194

Preferably the best way to launch is to launch with some sort of breeze (8-10 mph is probably optimal). You start by reverse launching the canopy, kite it for however long you want to, turn around and run down the hill (your launch will depend on the wind, wing type and loading, nose type, slope angle, etc, etc, etc). But if there is no wind or very light winds, then you will need to forward launch your canopy. And of course in your situation, hmmm ... we could build you a little ski jump contraption. But it's probably not a good idea.

Unfortunately my camera malfunctioned on this trip and I did not get video. But here is a short video of some Ground Launching at the GLC in CA. Of course this sport is still in it's infancy and the potential for it is still not 100% known.

It's paragliding for speed junkies. I do a lot of paragliding myself and have always complained about how slow our wings fly. Now this looks like fun. Maybe I'll try my Sabre 107 off our little training hill we have at our local flying site. Do Sabre's have a decent enough glide ratio to ground launch?

Maybe a new BASE catagory in the making here.. Rex Green ?

I wonder who will be the first to ground launch and land on top of all four objects ?

BASE regression .. for fat lazy fucker in your life.

First off I am no Ground Launching expert. So any thing I say here is based on the experience I gained this last weekend at the Ground Launching Camp and may not be 100% correct. Anyway, you're a fairly small guy, so launching a Sabre 107 in wind might be doable. But I'd be willing to bet that launching your 107 in low winds would be difficult (not even factoring in your circumstances that the rest of us are not in). So you're likely better off with a larger wing (open nose for light winds, closed nose for stronger winds). But if you're already doing some paragliding, then you've got an idea as to what's going on with Ground Launching. However, there is one thing to keep in mind. Yes we can Ground Launch using most skydiving gear, but it is not ideal and there are specialized canopies (in proto-type right now, soon to be released) which kick absolute ass when it comes to Ground Launching. They are not cheap (they use a different material than ZP and/or F-111), but they are worth their weight in gold in the Ground Launching environment.

Can't see that working and ground Launching is obviously not BASE jumping. But they have the potential to both be back-country parachuting activities and thus the reason why I brought it up to begin with.

There is going to be a Ground Launching boogie (with a blade running competition) out at the Ground Launch Center in CA next summer and there is talk of lauching tandems with passengers attached wearing a BASE rig, cutting away at 300-400 feet and doing their thing. It should be a good time.

 

Did you or russell check out Jason's link ? there is a guy with an FX doing just fine.

I was sent it earlier by Mac.

I won't post the link to the file, but go to the gallery and check the videos for 'Ground Launch Center'.

You'll be lifting your legs up like i was... yes even you Russell.

I'm not about to do this any time soon, but look for some of us to Ground Launch off of some of these objects once more experience is gained.

Buildings - absolutely doable
Antennas - not practical in most cases
Spans - doable with some challenges
Earth - absolutely doable

Once again I'm talking about lauching off of these objects in the future once some essential skills are mastered. So please keep the "you're a dead man" flames to a minimum. You won't be seeing me launch from Moab this coming weekend. But Jim and I did talk about how it could be done.

We had guys launching Velocity and Xaos canopies this weekend. But they were larger than what they normally jump.

I've already got my "E" then. Oh wait I flew into that hillside with a paraglider, damn! Does that still count?

B - I already flew into a barn with my paraglider
A - does a lamp post count as an A ??
S - still looking for the span to fly into...
E - Also got hillsides

Almost got my "Ground Launch Into" BASE number

All these were ground launched.

Now that's funny!

wasn't funny at all
when your canopy ends on top of the lamp post and the post just rips through and at the end you have your paraglider lying flat on the ground with a hole and a lamp post sticking out, it's not funny at all...

BWAAAAAHHHH

edited to add : missing my S, and also never flew into skilift (these chairs you know, dunno how you call them in english) cables. A couple of friends have though... Can they be considered as Spans ?? Ii know where to get my S then...

ya try to launch a base canopy on top of a mountain....you will get thrown off the back of the mountain. :D

 
Hey Russel,
Have you tried a DHV2 or higher rating. I had a 2 and it was very responsive and faster. Next step is to fly a higher wing loading just like skydiving. You might be impressed with it!
I attached a photo of the owner from Gradient flying a prototype Comp wing. He was scream'n under that thing!

Jason,
I have been told by a few Paraglider pilots that paragliding was also not allowed in NPs. Let me know if I'm wrong and I'll be at Yo.... ASAP!
I dont get how they can allow Hang Gliders, but not Paragliders. What happens if a HG pilot has to deploy his reserve parachute? Do they arrest them after landing?
One pilot/jumper said its to close to BASE so its not allowed...

Any input??

Josh Morell
www.imagethisphoto.com

http://www.groundlaunchsystems.com

Certain people involved in the ground launched parachute world are currently talking to the NPS about flying in specific NP's. We're doing the same thing with BASE - sending letters, talking to superintendents with jumpable NP's.

As for deploying your round ballistic parachute from a hang glider, that would be considered an "emergency", which is an exception to the aerial delivery rule.

Allright, i understand the idea of GL, but still find it very funny that people decided to give paragliding with smaller faster canopies a different name... i imagine that skydiving with Velocity isn't skydiving anymore. Now it is Aircraft Launching ?

bsbd!

Yuri.

There's a whole lot of missing the point going on right now.

It's a shame more BASE jumpers don't go to the film festival or they'd begin to understand how all aspects of parachuting are evolving and remerging.

Slaton is just as, if not more hard core than most BASE jumpers I know, and he is fully on to something big with his ground launching school.

I'm sure one main reason why a lot of us BASE jump is for the purity of the sport. You, the elements, and a cloth wing. With ground launching. You kite the canopy and step off into the unknown. My experience with my VX-84 BASE jump at B-day back in the day amazed me with the visuals of flying a small, fast, canopy with trees whizzing past my periphials.

Just as many BASE jumpers have given up skydiving (often to the detriment of their body flight skills, in my opinion) so to we might find find BASE jumpers switching to ground launching.

YOU HAVE GOT TO SEE SLATONS SHOTS. You'll never refer to ground launching as regression ever again.

It was given a different name because it is a different sport. Yes there are similarities, but it is still very different (especially the gear, but also launching, flying and landing). It's like comparing skydiving and BASE.

I'm a skier and I see Ground Launching as a possible extension of that sport as well when you're flying down a mountainside. It's only a few notches turned higher in the adrenaline rush realm.

Ground Launching Rocks!!!

How would a Raven 3 249 sq ft be for ground launching? Will an F-111 canopy not be as good as a ZP canopy? It would be loaded at 0.86 to 1. The canopy is pretty used, 800 or so jumps on it. I am just curious about this.

Thanks for the info.

Clint D-24352

Wouldnt deploying a base canopy also be considered as an "emergency" cause if we dont deploy it we die =)

That exact argument has been tried in a BASE trail. It didn't work. Voluntary decisions to jump, apparently, don't count as "emergencies" that fall under the exemption to the rule.

Hi

I managed to foot launch my Canopy from Rhosshili and soar for about 15 minutes in late February 1981. A photo of my launch was published in the UK's Wings! Magazine in April 1981. The first link gives a bit of history.

http://www.homeusers.prestel.co.uk/midflight/RhossiliSTORY.htm

and

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A902549

I can't remember if it was ground launched or not, but there's a little bit on one of the Soul Flyers DVDs (I think it was them) with a guy on skis and someone under canopy racing each other down some sand dunes. The guy under canopy is trailing his toes in the sand GL style... very very pretty.